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Calgary26004 Posts
On September 27 2007 03:57 HellAngel wrote:
Ok for everyone having trouble with seeing the problem vs this build and saying zealots will be out same time pylon will be same time. Listen here.
He has cut probes to get a faster Pylon 1 second faster TBH. then he will go 9/10 or 9/9 gates he will not do the usual 10/12 so your first gate will seem about the same time but his 2nd is going to be faster. His manner pylon brings the economic advantage that you "would" have even. Now his timing with his zealots will be when you get your first zealot. So now it's 2 zealots vs 1 zealots probes. Good situation at this point right? No it's not he has gates inside your base and 2 more zealots are being built. So now all he has to do is kill probes and he wins.
That is the problem vs this build that only a forge/cannon build can stop.
Agreed on all points.
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whoa Chill when did you become Mod O_O
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Calgary26004 Posts
Umm, I was made a mod to help revamp the strategy forum. Some changes will be happening soon.
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On September 27 2007 03:57 HellAngel wrote:
That is the problem vs this build that only a forge/cannon build can stop.
other than blocking the manner all together...
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Calgary26004 Posts
Hate to come across like a dick, but I don't know how to change the strategy forum other than nagging at people bit by bit.
"I lost to this too" doesn't really help anyone. Either pose a question or give some analysis of the game. In the near future, posts like this will be deleted.
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well you stopped it but he didn't execute it properly.
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So if you cannon-expoed, how many cannons would you build before expo? Would you go 2 cannons by your nexus then expo? Would you go 2 cannons, then 1 cannon at natural then expo? Would you go 1 cannon at each location then expo?
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Yes and do all that before your seventh's probe even spawns. Nice job, genius.
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On September 27 2007 09:42 Purind wrote:
So if you cannon-expoed, how many cannons would you build before expo? Would you go 2 cannons by your nexus then expo? Would you go 2 cannons, then 1 cannon at natural then expo? Would you go 1 cannon at each location then expo?
Completly depends on the situation. If he still built the 2 gates after you made your forge 2 for safe measure and 1 at your expo. Around the time that your expo finishes decide from your scouting to add 1 or 2 more cannons.
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On September 27 2007 16:24 Jumperer wrote:
I found a sure fire solution to this. All you have to do is block the tiny gap in the middle of the map to delay the sneaky probe from building an early pylon. Or mine out that mineral patch near the ramp and block your ramp with 2 probes.
Carriers stops this as well.
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what is really the problem? when you see he builds his second gateway on 9, just cut yourself your probe production, build second gate, second pylon. as soon as you kill his two gates/supporting pylons - you won! even if you lost half of your probes.
i am talking about ~equal levels here. sure, B- will easily win vs <=C levels with this strat...
btw, does it work on terran too?
ok, some more about peaks i tried the following vs a couple of terrans that normally win me and won in all cases: gas him, forge first ->expo! one was very interesting, because he simultaneously was 8raxing me, and my ramp cannon + probes saved my game (probes baught enough time for the cannon to finish). what you think about this protoss strat?
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On September 27 2007 22:45 araav wrote:what is really the problem? when you see he builds his second gateway on 9, just cut yourself your probe production, build second gate, second pylon. as soon as you kill his two gates/supporting pylons - you won! even if you lost half of your probes. i am talking about ~equal levels here. sure, B- will easily win vs <=C levels with this strat... btw, does it work on terran too? ok, some more about peaks i tried the following vs a couple of terrans that normally win me and won in all cases: gas him, forge first ->expo! one was very interesting, because he simultaneously was 8raxing me, and my ramp cannon + probes saved my game (probes baught enough time for the cannon to finish). what you think about this protoss strat?
...Please tell me at least you semi-read the thread. Even if you lose half your probes you can still lose.he still has 9+ mining while you on the other hand are starting a new game just with buildings.
As for the vs Terran please tell me your kidding forge first cannon? The only reason you should get forge first PvT is cannon cheese. a simple 1-2 gate zealot with 2 probes easily will stop 8rax. Your probe scouts him sees 8rax/no depot you know something fishy is up cut 10th probe build a quicker gate and get zealot up. 1 zealot 1-2 probes can take about 3-4 microed marines.
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Calgary26004 Posts
On September 27 2007 22:45 araav wrote:what is really the problem? when you see he builds his second gateway on 9, just cut yourself your probe production, build second gate, second pylon. as soon as you kill his two gates/supporting pylons - you won! even if you lost half of your probes. i am talking about ~equal levels here. sure, B- will easily win vs <=C levels with this strat... btw, does it work on terran too? ok, some more about peaks i tried the following vs a couple of terrans that normally win me and won in all cases: gas him, forge first ->expo! one was very interesting, because he simultaneously was 8raxing me, and my ramp cannon + probes saved my game (probes baught enough time for the cannon to finish). what you think about this protoss strat?
Terrible post; clearly hasn't read the thread and is giving useless, marginally correct advice.
This is unacceptable under new strategy forum rules.
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If you see his probe coming into your base it's going to be obvious that it's very early and he must be trying this particular proxy. I don't see why it's so hard to just not let him lay down the pylon. Also, you should 9/10 gate yourself and if you put 4 probes on his manner-pylon then how will he have the supply to make his 2nd pair of zeals? I've never been victimized by this strategy but I don't believe those who are saying how it's so difficult to counter.
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Go watch the game on this first page. That will show you why it's hard. Pokju still managed to kill the pylon but he still lost the game.
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On September 28 2007 06:05 HellAngel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2007 22:45 araav wrote:what is really the problem? when you see he builds his second gateway on 9, just cut yourself your probe production, build second gate, second pylon. as soon as you kill his two gates/supporting pylons - you won! even if you lost half of your probes. i am talking about ~equal levels here. sure, B- will easily win vs <=C levels with this strat... btw, does it work on terran too? ok, some more about peaks i tried the following vs a couple of terrans that normally win me and won in all cases: gas him, forge first ->expo! one was very interesting, because he simultaneously was 8raxing me, and my ramp cannon + probes saved my game (probes baught enough time for the cannon to finish). what you think about this protoss strat? ...Please tell me at least you semi-read the thread. Even if you lose half your probes you can still lose.he still has 9+ mining while you on the other hand are starting a new game just with buildings.
yes i read it. have you tried to understand what have I written for you? what exactly was I saying? now read it again and try to understand. you do not start from zero and he does not have what you have! you should have lots more zeals and two gate constantly adding new zeals, while he does not have shit to fight vs you! now got it? + all of it was UNDER a fucking "EVEN IF": even if you lose half of your probes, which on equal levels you should not!
On September 28 2007 06:05 HellAngel wrote:As for the vs Terran please tell me your kidding forge first cannon? The only reason you should get forge first PvT is cannon cheese. a simple 1-2 gate zealot with 2 probes easily will stop 8rax. Your probe scouts him sees 8rax/no depot you know something fishy is up cut 10th probe build a quicker gate and get zealot up. 1 zealot 1-2 probes can take about 3-4 microed marines.
please tell me you know shit about fast expanding and 8raxing... or, fucking AGAIN, you did at least understood the point of this build... so go on and tell me what exactly was the key of this build
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MaTRiX[SiN]
Sweden1282 Posts
On September 27 2007 03:57 HellAngel wrote:
Ok for everyone having trouble with seeing the problem vs this build and saying zealots will be out same time pylon will be same time. Listen here.
He has cut probes to get a faster Pylon 1 second faster TBH. then he will go 9/10 or 9/9 gates he will not do the usual 10/12 so your first gate will seem about the same time but his 2nd is going to be faster. His manner pylon brings the economic advantage that you "would" have even. Now his timing with his zealots will be when you get your first zealot. So now it's 2 zealots vs 1 zealots probes. Good situation at this point right? No it's not he has gates inside your base and 2 more zealots are being built. So now all he has to do is kill probes and he wins.
That is the problem vs this build that only a forge/cannon build can stop. uh ya.. so then make your gates earlier?
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Calgary26004 Posts
On September 28 2007 22:43 MaTRiX[SiN] wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2007 03:57 HellAngel wrote:
Ok for everyone having trouble with seeing the problem vs this build and saying zealots will be out same time pylon will be same time. Listen here.
He has cut probes to get a faster Pylon 1 second faster TBH. then he will go 9/10 or 9/9 gates he will not do the usual 10/12 so your first gate will seem about the same time but his 2nd is going to be faster. His manner pylon brings the economic advantage that you "would" have even. Now his timing with his zealots will be when you get your first zealot. So now it's 2 zealots vs 1 zealots probes. Good situation at this point right? No it's not he has gates inside your base and 2 more zealots are being built. So now all he has to do is kill probes and he wins.
That is the problem vs this build that only a forge/cannon build can stop. uh ya.. so then make your gates earlier?
You can't, you made a later Pylon and got manner Pyloned. If you make your gates as fast as possible, they will still be behind.
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EPT
