EPTWhat is the new mechanic that made arbiter play obsolete?
I noticed terran has also evolved their play to counter this. evenly spread tanks, conscious vulture runby at nat looking for unguarded templars, lots of EMPs, etc.
What is this new pvt style with no arbiters?
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Jubinell
333 Posts
What is the new mechanic that made arbiter play obsolete? I noticed terran has also evolved their play to counter this. evenly spread tanks, conscious vulture runby at nat looking for unguarded templars, lots of EMPs, etc. | ||
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Leonix
161 Posts
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Me_ToKa
Bulgaria309 Posts
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y2kid
92 Posts
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
(i mean carriers was already a possible alternative otherwise though or even possibly a mix) | ||
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Jubinell
333 Posts
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Timebon3s
Norway764 Posts
It’s also sad to see protoss recalling half his army into mines and then lose to a counterattack on his natural and killing all units beeing produced | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On January 09 2021 23:29 Timebon3s wrote: It’s also sad to see protoss recalling half his army into mines and then lose to a counterattack on his natural and killing all units beeing produced yeah i dont like blind recalls i avoid doing that almost just don't do it also agree reavers prob underused in pvz i was trying the templar style a bunch of times just worried about the 200/200 army but if it works at best level it must simply be a good style then should have a look | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
On January 09 2021 23:51 ProMeTheus112 wrote: yeah i dont like blind recalls i avoid doing that almost just don't do it also agree reavers prob underused in pvz i was trying the templar style a bunch of times just worried about the 200/200 army but if it works at best level it must simply be a good style then should have a look I picked this up from Best Youtube- chat: Big adjustment is the number of probes and expansions. Protoss makes timing attack with shuttle and storm and trades with terran. Then you just trade and trade. Terran dries and never quite gets 200/200 with 3/2. If protoss cannot demolish scvs or trade with storm it becomes tricky because lower number of probes. So it comes down to Best and his insane optimization to have just right ammount of stuff to constantly pressure terran and trade/harass with storm. The greatest pvt is back. | ||
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whaski
Finland577 Posts
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omahahowitzer
United States98 Posts
can someone explain this opening for me? 16 gas, 20 core, 3 zealots before goon. Best's PvT is too next level it is beyond my comprehension | ||
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Soulforged
Latvia935 Posts
The main problem is that you have to keep trading. The trades may be slightly ineffecient, but if you get shut down hard one time, you can no longer do so, and you will have to deal with that 200. Now there's options to deal with that, such as: 1)getting decent trades by constantly moving around, faking engagement attempt with part of the army while repositioning the most of it elsewhere, trying and catching terran out of position 2)letting them push and doing a counterattack, while reinforcements + defensive storms slow down terran advance, eventually returning and flanking their army when it isn't positioned ideally. This generally trades bases 1:1 and armies, which is what protoss wants 3)or even engaging them as they move out and mass drop zealots on the tanks as they pass the mine field... all of these are things that frequently come up in Best games as ways to turn things around if he loses tempo. but it is difficult this style is all about tempo if terran stabilizes and puts defensive mines everywhere(or even worse, on counter attack routes as well), this can end up being very problematic I wonder if best gets significantly more than 60 probes due to his constant trades, though. That seems like something that can both be amazing if you keep the constant trades going, and backfire a lot if terran stabilizes. | ||
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lurkgoon
11 Posts
On January 10 2021 22:29 omahahowitzer wrote: can someone explain this opening for me? 16 gas, 20 core, 3 zealots before goon. Best's PvT is too next level it is beyond my comprehension It's your basic zzcorez. You don't have to stop building probes or zeals and can still get your core up reasonably fast. It's probably the best compromise for a safe zealot pressure build in pvt. The gate can be made at your ramp or natural choke, with the natural choke being more common. Even if your zealot pressure gets shut down, like what happens in the first game, it's not the end of the world. Don't keep throwing zeals away - they are still useful for defending a counterattack, or to later load up in a shuttle with a reaver. You can't expect a whole lot from a 10 gate at your ramp or natural, though it does have the potential to really mess up an unprepared opponent, as you can see in a later game on Polypoid. In general, Best does a really good job mixing up his builds, with various standard tech builds, forward gate, 12 nexus, etc. Most Protoss players rely too much on the standard 1 gate, 13 core, no zealot builds. | ||
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Kingdom[NaS]
74 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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Soulforged
Latvia935 Posts
It isn't that great on maps with a 'free 3rd base' that we had frequent in the past. Current reaver openings and maps make terran work for their 3rd base, and then it is still either exposed or far enough to where the mobility of speed shuttle-goon can take good trades. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On January 11 2021 08:52 BigFan wrote: It's not really a new style if I'm understanding things properly. Using a gateway army with ht support was a style that was played frequently in the past, but over the years, protoss players started using arbiters much more. I'm not really sure why the change now, but I am glad to see it being used again because it makes for some great games. Yes if I recall correctly, P didn't used to rush to arbiters back then (but then again I was absolutely terrible back then). However, I'm sure there would be some new twist to what we see on the surface | ||
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angry_maia
327 Posts
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