What is this new pvt style with no arbiters? - Page 2

TelecoM

United States10502 Posts

January 12 2021 06:08 GMT

#21

Keep Terrans economy and army down and forcing them to engage to out macro and get better engagements to come out on top.

KwarK

United States37349 Posts

January 12 2021 19:10 GMT

#22

On January 11 2021 01:53 ne4aJIb wrote:
I dont think you wait with shuttles until terran gets 200 supply.

Correct. The purpose of the style is to prevent the Terran from ever reaching his 200 supply mass upgraded tank army.

Magic Powers

Austria273 Posts

January 13 2021 03:42 GMT

#23

Terran players have figured out ways to combat various arbiter tech routes, so the winrate for protoss players has been stagnating if not perhaps dropping. But the arbiter is an easy-to-use unit with strong and deceptive qualities, so it'll always stick around.

HT management is very difficult, especially with many bases and other locations being threatened at once, but they're are a lot cheaper than arbiters and storm only requires 75 energy so they can be very effective at defending various locations, especially against a moving terran tank army. Plus, anti-storm unit control and ambushing tactics against HT's for terran aren't any easier either.
The added cost of speed shuttles isn't exactly a big problem for protoss, as zealots have very limited DPS and are easy to pick off when running around unprotected. So putting some of the production into shuttles instead of zealots does make a lot of sense.

Storm can be utilized against just about everything: tanks, vultures, goliaths, even occasionally against spider mines and science vessels.
Something that was previously overlooked is that it can als be used to keep SCV numbers low. This is a very effective tactic because consistently reducing the SCV count will significantly slow down terran production and therefore delay reinforcement, giving protoss crucial breathing space in battle. Flash demonstrated this when he was practicing random protoss.
Killing SCV's can also help in combat as they can be used to repair stuff or block incoming protoss units.

Basically the HT was quite an overlooked unit in the past few years. Who knows why exactly it's more popular now, but from what we've been seeing it seems it'll stick around and possibly drive down the terran winrate, because having several equally valid options can't hurt.

Jealous

8468 Posts

January 13 2021 16:04 GMT

#24

On January 11 2021 08:52 BigFan wrote:
It's not really a new style if I'm understanding things properly. Using a gateway army with ht support was a style that was played frequently in the past, but over the years, protoss players started using arbiters much more. I'm not really sure why the change now, but I am glad to see it being used again because it makes for some great games.

To my understanding, it's not the same approach as it was in the "pre-Arbiter" days and it is viable because players are not only more mechanically sound but also because of the use of Shuttles, as well as the fact that Shuttles are useful from a much earlier point in the game and against a large variety of Terran pushes and plays. They are good for busting, elevators, harass, bombing pushes, etc. It's really a confluence of multiple factors.

BigFan

TLADT24574 Posts

January 13 2021 16:54 GMT

#25

On January 14 2021 01:04 Jealous wrote:

Show nested quote +

That's fair. I haven't watched a lot of TvPs lately so figured it was similar in style. I always wondered why hts weren't used more because their potential is insane if used well (think about all the possibilities on top of eco damage with storm drops) so it's nice to see them being used much more.

niteReloaded

Croatia5239 Posts

January 14 2021 00:16 GMT

#26

I'm not following the scene very closely recently, but I do take a peek occasionally. The first time I saw this was seeing Flash random into Protoss. Was this style alive before then, or did Flash perhaps start it?

Jealous

8468 Posts

January 14 2021 05:37 GMT

#27

On January 14 2021 09:16 niteReloaded wrote:
I'm not following the scene very closely recently, but I do take a peek occasionally. The first time I saw this was seeing Flash random into Protoss. Was this style alive before then, or did Flash perhaps start it?

Speed Shuttle-centric PvT has been around for at least 1 year, may be closer to 2 or even 3 by now but it's hard for me to pinpoint a progenitor or specific game/time.