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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
Has someone done an extensive analysis of how Reaver work and how to utilize it to its maximum? If so where can i find this? I just watched a Tasteless game (with Reavers ofc) and got the urge to get to know everything about Reaver control and how it acts/works. If i dont find any information i guess i have to trial/error it myself and will post my findings here if there is something interesting. Stuff with Shuttle/Arbiter is involved ofc. Thx in advance! | ||
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asel
Germany1599 Posts
 Reaver Drop | ||
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EndingLife
United States1593 Posts
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EMPaThy789
New Zealand878 Posts
e.g. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, hit 3 before unloading, unload, reavers no longer hotkeyed. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, dont hit 3 before unloading, unload, 3 is still hot-keyed to reavers - If all units in a hotkey go into shuttles, you can press that hotkey without losing it. If only SOME of the hotkeyed units go into shuttles and you press that hotkey while they are loaded, then the units inside the shuttles are no longer hotkeyed. - Pressing S detonates the scarab (doesn't do damage). Useful when the scarab is stuck past the reaver's attack cd since you can't fire a second scarab until the first detonates. - A reaver hugging the minerals can shoot through without the scarab pathing around the mineral line. - Selecting the reaver and clicking on the shuttle doesn't decelerate the shuttle so long as the shuttle is moving and the shuttle is directly on top of the reaver. Selecting the shuttle and clicking on the reaver will decelerate the shuttle even if it is on top of the reaver. - Clicking on the wireframe or using unload on the shuttle itself doesn't decelerate the shuttle, using unload on the ground will decelerate the shuttle. Ez reaver micro from an old legionnaire post which I cant seem to find: - unload reaver from shuttle via wireframe/unload on shuttle - select both reaver + shuttle and click on target - hit hotkey for shuttle and send it to come back to behind the reaver - select reaver and click on shuttle as it comes back. As you get better, you can select just the reaver instead of reaver + shuttle and move the shuttle side to side instead of forward & back which can be better in certain situations (e.g. vs hydras). edit: updated incorrect parts | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
If you fire on a moving worker the scarab will try to intercept its vector, this is what causes the pathing error as it tries to stay behind mineral lines to intercept the worker. (Edit: Actually i think when it tries to intercept the target through its vector it just ignores whatever is in front of itself and thats why it doesnt go around minerals) If you fire on the worker when it exactly stops to mine a mineral the pathing will work flawlessly and walk around the mineral line to hit it. This is mind blowing to me as from now on i will never have a scarab timeout again. (Edit: This isnt true as you can see in my second replay that if the player starts moving all the scvs the scarabs gets pathfinding error again) https://ufile.io/pxjpt5gf This replay explains how it works meanwhile showing it in action. Laughing my ass off: https://ufile.io/4nonjtxd really watch this rep!! xD Replay that i cant explain: https://ufile.io/3v3gdac8 Whats happening in the last replay is i am moving away from the mineral line and for some reason the pathing of scarabs behaves normally at that point.. You can see its at a specific range from the minerals it starts happening... So this means you are safer just behind minerals than moving away from minerals as at that point scarabs can start working normally again.. ODD! This will be my final replay: https://ufile.io/zxn6r4j4 Seems units being idle in a wall position isnt an object that pathfinding for scarabs can go around. Moving SCV still makes the pathfinding for scarabs totally ignore everything infront of it, meanwhile standing still with SCV the pathfinding is working but it cannot see its a wall of marines. Maybe the gaps between marines are shown as a path but scarabs are 5x5 in size so they cannot fit through. | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria408 Posts
ez game ez life ez mmr jokes aside, indeed download bonyth replays and follow him closely, then try to replicate. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
-Scarab detonates if you hit S on the Reaver. -Shuttle speed reduces as you go get to target location | ||
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LML
Germany1760 Posts
On October 12 2020 22:47 EMPaThy789 wrote: Just some basic information regarding reaver control - If you hotkey your reavers and load them to a shuttle, they will un-hotkey if you press the hotkey while they are loaded. e.g. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, hit 3 before unloading, unload, reavers no longer hotkeyed. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, dont hit 3 before unloading, unload, 3 is still hot-keyed to reavers - Pressing S detonates the scarab (doesn't do damage). Useful when the scarab is stuck past the reaver's attack cd since you can't fire a second scarab until the first detonates. - A reaver hugging the minerals can shoot through without the scarab pathing around the mineral line. - Selecting the reaver and clicking on the shuttle doesn't decelerate the shuttle so long as the shuttle is moving. Selecting the shuttle and clicking on the reaver will decelerate the shuttle even if it is on top of the reaver. - Clicking on the wireframe or using unload on the shuttle itself doesn't decelerate the shuttle, using unload on the ground will decelerate the shuttle. Ez reaver micro from an old legionnaire post which I cant seem to find: - unload reaver from shuttle via wireframe/unload on shuttle - select both reaver + shuttle and click on target - hit hotkey for shuttle and send it to come back to behind the reaver - select reaver and click on shuttle as it comes back. As you get better, you can select just the reaver instead of reaver + shuttle and move the shuttle side to side instead of forward & back which can be better in certain situations (e.g. vs hydras). Quite a bit of false information in there. 1. Pressing the hotkey of a unit while it's in the shuttle does not erase that hotkey and once the unit is unloaded you can select it via the previously assigned hotkey again. 2. The shuttle behaves the same acceleration wise, whether you select the shuttle and right click on the reaver, or the other way around. In both cases you have to do the same thing as mentioned at the end of your post in order to keep the shuttle moving at full speed. I just tested both of these, as they sounded wrong. On October 12 2020 21:48 asel wrote: You can start here https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Reaver_Drop Also one mistake in that liquipedia link: The "Build Scarab" command will cancel the manual target selection: a Reaver will pick a random target again after new Scarabs are queued up The build scarab command will not do anything, except queue additional scarabs. What makes your reaver lose focus of a manual target: your reaver running out of scarabs. Once your reaver is at 0 scarabs, it will lose the attack command, and therefore also its previous target. Upon a new scarab finishing, you have to manually target again immediately, otherwise the reaver will shoot at the highest priority target in range.edit: I've edited the Liquipedia page accordingly. | ||
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MineraIs
United States846 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On October 14 2020 02:45 MineraIs wrote: Reavers bug out often due to map pathing mechanics, not the unit. If you checked my replays you will know thats not true. In replays demonstrate how i can manipulate scarabs to detonate on target or not on target. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
@LML actually it seems Blizzard fixed the hotkey lost in shuttle "bug". It was a thing a time ago but yes ure right, i just tested it also and you can hold the hotkey and it gets instantly selected when exiting shuttle. In my case it was a probe. @Telecom there has always been deceleration towards the endpoint of the path. Its the same when you throw a spell also like irradiate/stasis/web. Arbiter is probably the most obvious case of deceleration and thats why you usually use the trick "click infront of Arbiter, then throw spell asap" as this removes the need for it but requires micro instead. | ||
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LML
Germany1760 Posts
On October 14 2020 04:00 MeSaber wrote: @LML actually it seems Blizzard fixed the hotkey lost in shuttle "bug". It was a thing a time ago but yes ure right, i just tested it also and you can hold the hotkey and it gets instantly selected when exiting shuttle. In my case it was a probe. It works the same in 1.16.1 - so idk in which version this is supposed to not have worked. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
EDIT : I tend to word things poorly sometimes, in other words, would it be a safer bet to try to de accelerate the Shuttle earlier on? What happens if you are manually controlling the Shuttle + mass clicking the entire time to stay aware of where it is going? Is the Speed effected then? It never de Accelerates? That may explain why I lose Reavers so much lol | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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EMPaThy789
New Zealand878 Posts
On October 14 2020 02:34 LML wrote: Quite a bit of false information in there. 1. Pressing the hotkey of a unit while it's in the shuttle does not erase that hotkey and once the unit is unloaded you can select it via the previously assigned hotkey again. 2. The shuttle behaves the same acceleration wise, whether you select the shuttle and right click on the reaver, or the other way around. In both cases you have to do the same thing as mentioned at the end of your post in order to keep the shuttle moving at full speed. I just tested both of these, as they sounded wrong. Also one mistake in that liquipedia link:The build scarab command will not do anything, except queue additional scarabs. What makes your reaver lose focus of a manual target: your reaver running out of scarabs. Once your reaver is at 0 scarabs, it will lose the attack command, and therefore also its previous target. Upon a new scarab finishing, you have to manually target again immediately, otherwise the reaver will shoot at the highest priority target in range. edit: I've edited the Liquipedia page accordingly. I just checked some of the stuff and what LML said was true 1. Pressing the hotkey of a unit while it's in the shuttle does not erase that hotkey and once the unit is unloaded you can select it via the previously assigned hotkey again. So I double checked this because I distinctly remember losing reavers due to this bug back in the day (which caused me to not hotkey reavers). So the bug/interaction is as follows: - If all units in a hotkey go into shuttles, you can press that hotkey without losing it. - If only SOME of the hotkeyed units go into shuttles and you press that hotkey while they are loaded, then the units inside the shuttles are no longer hotkeyed. An example: - say you have 2 reavers hotkeyed to "2" and you load them up in a shuttle. Once they are both loaded you can press 2 as many times as you want and they will still be hotkeyed to the reavers. - If you tell your shuttle to unload and spam "2" while it unloads so you can target asap, you will end up selecting one out of the two reavers while another reaver is still in the shuttle. That second reaver that was in the shuttle is now no longer hotkeyed while the first reaver is still hotkeyed. - This bug is also why you often end up losing hotkeys on units when you accidentally pick up dragoons/archons in big battles. 2. The shuttle behaves the same acceleration wise, whether you select the shuttle and right click on the reaver, or the other way around. In both cases you have to do the same thing as mentioned at the end of your post in order to keep the shuttle moving at full speed. This is only the case if the reaver is not directly under the shuttle. If the reaver is directly under the shuttle and you tell the reaver to go into the shuttle, the shuttle will not decelerate and continue on its move command whereas the shuttle will always come to a stop if you click on the reaver with the shuttle no matter where the reaver is located. You can test this by setting the shuttle to move way past the reaver and clicking the reaver into the shuttle. Obviously you can give it more move commands so it doesn't come to a stop but this does mean that there are a few ticks where the shuttle is decelerating. Though this is mostly negligible, it can help when running from scourge. A you can also select both the reaver and the shuttle then clicking on the shuttle as it goes over the reaver which achieves the same thing if the reaver is directly under the shuttle without dis-selecting the shuttle. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On October 14 2020 14:43 Jumperer wrote: LOL the amount of misinformation here is mind-boggling. Units NEVER lose hotkey when in dropship/shuttle. Reaver can shoot through the mineral line. Some units such as shuttle lose acceleration without micro. A scarab cannot go "through" a mineral line. It can however spawn at a mineral and jump over if you have the reaver close to the mineral line. What im referring to is pathing around mineral line and that can be manipulated by moving the attacked unit. See replays plz  | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
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LML
Germany1760 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:09 TelecoM wrote: So do Shuttles de accelerate if you are constantly microing them? It depends on where you click. If you click right in front of where it's going, it will slow down to be able to stop at its destination. If the distance is big enough, then it will stay at full speed. There is also a trick to skip the acceleration period. Someone explained it to me, but I didn't get it. FBH has a video about it with dropships. | ||
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LG)Sabbath
Argentina3022 Posts
On October 14 2020 03:58 MeSaber wrote: If you checked my replays you will know thats not true. In replays demonstrate how i can manipulate scarabs to detonate on target or not on target. Reavers DO bug out in certain map locations and will sometimes not fire. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
Doodads and cliffs i would guess is the primary culprit if your reaver cant find a target though in range. Its very specific locations and its mostly because map maker didnt know about it being a thing. Edit: Oh and with "bug out" i thought he meant scarab not finding target. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
On October 15 2020 00:22 LML wrote: There is also a trick to skip the acceleration period. Someone explained it to me, but I didn't get it. FBH has a video about it with dropships. I am going to experiment with Shuttle, check if maybe Spam click or shift click does anything different. EDIT : I'm guessing the Shuttle doesn't react differently with a worker hotkeyed with it in the same group like many other air units, but no one has mentioned this. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
1. first shuttle test is when i pickup with rightclick on reaver then i let it stop to see how fast it decelerate. 2. second shuttle run i pickup using reaver on shuttle, i never touch the shuttle and you can see it keeps moving, if the shuttle wasnt above the reaver it would make a new path towards the reaver and lose its speed against the other shuttle i have running beside it as a reference. 3. third i use shuttle again on reaver but this time i keep moving after reaver pickup and as u can see i barely lost anything vs the reference shuttle. Edit: About the deceleration time. The deceleration isnt instant, it seems to be timed so it you keep moving after an instant stop you still are decelerating as if you hadnt stopped yet. Keep moving inside this timeframe and you keep your speed. This is exactly why mutas and other air units can do their patrol micro, they actually stops mid air then attack then keep moving again as if nothing happened (no deceleration happens). You can test this timeframe by doing this: Move a shuttle att full speed with its gravitic drive upgrade. When at full speed click just infront on the shuttle so it instantly stops, wait a brief moment then keep moving the shuttle again in the same direction. Have a reference shuttle running beside your test shuttle so you know if you decelerated or not. Edit2: From my testing of this it has no real use. If you want to drop ONE unit say a reaver, you do a fly-by and click the wireframe of reaver to drop it, this keep full speed, then move the shuttle in reverse over the reaver to pick it up once the scarab is launched. TWO+ units: Do a fly-by-click first, then you U-leftclick the shuttle and shift-rightclick in return direction to have it turn back after it has dropped the units with full speed. This is also best with mass overlords as keeping overlords in the dropzone can cause the other lords to not drop its units. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On October 14 2020 00:36 TelecoM wrote: WOW I feel so ignorant, I have played this game since the beginning and I had no idea that... -Scarab detonates if you hit S on the Reaver. -Shuttle speed reduces as you go get to target location Huh? You can't manually detonate scarab like that. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
On October 16 2020 10:51 Golgotha wrote: Huh? You can't manually detonate scarab like that. That's what was said above, I guess it was incorrect info. | ||
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EMPaThy789
New Zealand878 Posts
On October 16 2020 10:51 Golgotha wrote: Huh? You can't manually detonate scarab like that. You can, it just duds and does no damage. Like I mentioned in the previous post, its useful if the scarab is obviously stuck since the reaver's attack cd is shorter than the scarab timeout duration and you can't fire a new scarab until the old one dies. You want to press S to detonate the scarab so you can fire a new one. | ||
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LML
Germany1760 Posts
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
@telecom no i wouldnt say u can unload faster with framework. In warcraft 3 this is true however, where u-click is way slower than massclick on framework of units. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24931 Posts
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GeckoXp
Germany2016 Posts
Shuttles, Dropships and Overlords sent with patrol-command will alter their course / return back along their original path if they're shot at (e.g. by turrets, cannons or other units). It's a neat trick for those who struggle with mechanics and sometimes lose their transport. For a better player this trick doesn't do much or might even be worse, depending on the game situation. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
On October 17 2020 23:35 GeckoXp wrote: Almost related to the topic, but in case someone doesn't know already: Shuttles, Dropships and Overlords sent with patrol-command will alter their course / return back along their original path if they're shot at (e.g. by turrets, cannons or other units). It's a neat trick for those who struggle with mechanics and sometimes lose their transport. For a better player this trick doesn't do much or might even be worse, depending on the game situation. Wow that is great to know, they will return back to where you originally set the Patrol command from if they are shot...also did not know this. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24931 Posts
On October 18 2020 07:24 TelecoM wrote: Wow that is great to know, they will return back to where you originally set the Patrol command from if they are shot...also did not know this. That is pretty interesting and actually makes sense too. A unit that can attack patrols an area until it finds something to attack, a unit that can’t attack and then retreats along the ordered path. I’m curious how if this behaviour is programmed into either WC3 or SC2. You’d think it’d be something that would come up, but really I’ve only ever used patrol on observers in specific areas, and if my opponent spots it it usually instantly dies so I’ve never been able to notice if it does anything. I don’t think I’ve ever used patrol in the manner described, say approaching the edge of a base with a prism. So if you patrolled from an area of the dead space to a location into the middle of the base you’d fly through if there’s no turret ring and reverse immediately if there wasn’t. Sounds situational but kind of useful to me! | ||
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LML
Germany1760 Posts
On October 18 2020 07:24 TelecoM wrote: Wow that is great to know, they will return back to where you originally set the Patrol command from if they are shot...also did not know this. That's not actually true. They will go a certain distance back to where they came from, but will not fly back to where they started. Also, if you set up several points to patrol between, they will not be patrolled. The unit's command changes to "Move" as soon as they are hit, and as soon as the unit is done decelerating it will change to "Stop". Here is a screenshot showing that the units travel approximately the same distance after being hit by the spore (the carrier (0 interceptors) did not turn around when hit by the spore, it kept patrolling). The units all started on the far right, where the zergling is standing. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/iDcjhCC.png) | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
For those who didnt know you can utilize this knowledge with patrol queueing also. Patrol queueing or whatever you wanna call it is when you shift-patrol 3+ locations so it patrols in a circle instead of point to point. For example you could utilize this in the way of shuttle sneaking around the map corners WITH patrol so once its hit it runs away (as if idle) and dont die. Edit: For Patrol queueing to work (iirc, will test tomorrow) you need to rightclick first a distance away to give yourself time to queue up the patrol spots. Once it gets to where you rightclicked it will start the patrol queue. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
On October 19 2020 05:30 MeSaber wrote: Yes it acts as if it would be idle. For those who didnt know you can utilize this knowledge with patrol queueing also. Patrol queueing or whatever you wanna call it is when you shift-patrol 3+ locations so it patrols in a circle instead of point to point. For example you could utilize this in the way of shuttle sneaking around the map corners WITH patrol so once its hit it runs away (as if idle) and dont die. Edit: For Patrol queueing to work (iirc, will test tomorrow) you need to rightclick first a distance away to give yourself time to queue up the patrol spots. Once it gets to where you rightclicked it will start the patrol queue. Another interesting thing, is it pretty instant the unit turns when hit on patrol or is there a delay ? | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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LML
Germany1760 Posts
On October 19 2020 14:24 TelecoM wrote: Another interesting thing, is it pretty instant the unit turns when hit on patrol or is there a delay ? It will start turning around the moment it takes damage. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On October 19 2020 05:30 MeSaber wrote: Yes it acts as if it would be idle. For those who didnt know you can utilize this knowledge with patrol queueing also. Patrol queueing or whatever you wanna call it is when you shift-patrol 3+ locations so it patrols in a circle instead of point to point. For example you could utilize this in the way of shuttle sneaking around the map corners WITH patrol so once its hit it runs away (as if idle) and dont die. Edit: For Patrol queueing to work (iirc, will test tomorrow) you need to rightclick first a distance away to give yourself time to queue up the patrol spots. Once it gets to where you rightclicked it will start the patrol queue. Thanks. Seems pretty useless to be honest. At least for Protoss. Against Terran you want to be diving the shuttle through turrets and be microing the shuttle anyways otherwise your reaver or HT or whatever wouldn't be able to do any damage anyways, and against Zerg, it's probably scourge that "shoots" your shuttle so the technique wouldn't help you there. | ||
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Hoender
South Africa381 Posts
It seems that for some reason my reaver always wants to slowly crawl down the ramp before it even thinks of attacking, even when it's under fire >  | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
Put your reaver at those working positions and Hold it. A-move reaver is a recipe for ded reaver. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
On October 13 2020 20:23 MeSaber wrote: I just found out by trial and error why reavers dont work to fire on workers behind mineral lines. If you fire on a moving worker the scarab will try to intercept its vector, this is what causes the pathing error as it tries to stay behind mineral lines to intercept the worker. (Edit: Actually i think when it tries to intercept the target through its vector it just ignores whatever is in front of itself and thats why it doesnt go around minerals) If you fire on the worker when it exactly stops to mine a mineral the pathing will work flawlessly and walk around the mineral line to hit it. This is mind blowing to me as from now on i will never have a scarab timeout again. (Edit: This isnt true as you can see in my second replay that if the player starts moving all the scvs the scarabs gets pathfinding error again) https://ufile.io/pxjpt5gf This replay explains how it works meanwhile showing it in action. Laughing my ass off: https://ufile.io/4nonjtxd really watch this rep!! xD Replay that i cant explain: https://ufile.io/3v3gdac8 Whats happening in the last replay is i am moving away from the mineral line and for some reason the pathing of scarabs behaves normally at that point.. You can see its at a specific range from the minerals it starts happening... So this means you are safer just behind minerals than moving away from minerals as at that point scarabs can start working normally again.. ODD! This will be my final replay: https://ufile.io/zxn6r4j4 Seems units being idle in a wall position isnt an object that pathfinding for scarabs can go around. Moving SCV still makes the pathfinding for scarabs totally ignore everything infront of it, meanwhile standing still with SCV the pathfinding is working but it cannot see its a wall of marines. Maybe the gaps between marines are shown as a path but scarabs are 5x5 in size so they cannot fit through. A Scarab getting stuck or dudding out is caused by its not being able to find a valid path towards its target, due to other units and/or unwalkable terrain getting in the way. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:09 TelecoM wrote: So do Shuttles de accelerate if you are constantly microing them? It's decelerate, plain and simple. They decelerate if they are within a certain (close) range of their current target position. So as long as you keep constantly issuing new movement orders sufficiently far away from it, it will not decelerate. About the loading mechanic: A normally issuing a loading command on a unit will have the transport and unit move towars each other until they are in loading range, then the unit will get picked up. The Shuttle of course will decelerate if it's close enough to the unit. If the Shuttle is going at full speed within loading range of the unit when the command is given though, and if the Shuttle receives a new movement command directly after, the deceleration will be reduced to the time span it takes to renew the movement order on the Shuttle. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
On October 15 2020 03:41 MeSaber wrote: True but that has nothing to do with minerals. Minerals themselves are not an issue if you can fire or not. Doodads and cliffs i would guess is the primary culprit if your reaver cant find a target though in range. Its very specific locations and its mostly because map maker didnt know about it being a thing. Edit: Oh and with "bug out" i thought he meant scarab not finding target. It's been known to be a thing for long time, by map makers too. It's caused by bad pathfinding region layouts that lead to an overestimation of long range pathfinding distances, and hence to an effective reduction in Reaver range. The problem was that it was impossible to detect and very hard to fix in the editor, due to a lack of a pathfinding region overlay, which we now have. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
On October 21 2020 01:14 Hoender wrote: Does anyone have tips on how to control a reaver (without shuttle) to consistently shoot down ramps? Specifically in PvP scenarios. It seems that for some reason my reaver always wants to slowly crawl down the ramp before it even thinks of attacking, even when it's under fire > This is the aforementioned Reaver jam bug. What the Reaver is trying to do it to reach the next pathfinding region, from where it would be considered in range (ground travel distance, not attack range, as the Scarab is a ground unit!) of the target. The best thing you can do about it is start a shitstorm about the issue on the Blizzard forums. I am not kidding. We need more player pressure on Blizzard (and the organizers of big tournaments, foremost Afreeca) to have these map bugs fixed. | ||
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Hoender
South Africa381 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:00 Freakling wrote: This is the aforementioned Reaver jam bug. What the Reaver is trying to do it to reach the next pathfinding region, from where it would be considered in range (ground travel distance, not attack range, as the Scarab is a ground unit!) of the target. The best thing you can do about it is start a shitstorm about the issue on the Blizzard forums. I am not kidding. We need more player pressure on Blizzard (and the organizers of big tournaments, foremost Afreeca) to have these map bugs fixed. I see, are there specific ramps and maps to look out for? Knowing that a specific starting position has a "bad" ramp will definitely cause me to forego 1 gate robo and rather open 2 gate goon. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:29 Hoender wrote: I see, are there specific ramps and maps to look out for? Knowing that a specific starting position has a "bad" ramp will definitely cause me to forego 1 gate robo and rather open 2 gate goon. In my experience (I don't know if this is true, just through personal experiences, feelings , thoughts.) it always seems easier to shoot in a downward or Southern direction, and it always seems a lot more difficult for the Reaver to shoot in the northern direction (down the ramp still), but I have not tested this, it is just speculation. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
To specify: Don't think any specific type of ramp or tileset has anything to do with it. The walkability and terrain level flags of all the map's terrain tiles are what determines the pathfinding region layout, and thus ultimately the map layout as a whole and all the little terrain details in it. To make this clear again: Most of these bugs can easily be detected in the editor and the only real difficulty in fixing them is that you have to simultaneously keep an eye on other pathfinding issues, like mining bugs, vortices or bad scout paths. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On October 28 2020 03:35 Freakling wrote: A Scarab getting stuck or dudding out is caused by its not being able to find a valid path towards its target, due to other units and/or unwalkable terrain getting in the way. Ure completely wrong. See my replays plz before making statements like this. Scarabs works perfectly fine if the target is static which is shown in the replay(s). Yes you can surround the target so scarab cant find a way through but that has nothing to do with pathfinding but the actual size of the scarab not being able to squeeze between two obstacles. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
Resources blocking a path (or part of it) are also just units. And finding gaps where a unit can move through is part of pathfinding (though one that does not necessarily always work as expected or intended…) | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
I did a wall of rines and the scarab didnt go around them but tried to find a path between em. Seemingly showing that units compared to resources do have gaps where pathing is searched and bugs out the scarab even though target is static. Protoss have this kind of issue too where if you have a wall of buildings cutting your way to your exp when doing a probe transfer they can become "stuck" not finding their way fast enough so you have to manually path em. That or waiting a very long time until it resolves by itself. I dont think this is whats happening to scarabs though. In all my tests the scarab is very agile and seem to have zero acceleration issues, i just think it shows a path it just cant fit through. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1529 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
However when you have marines as a wall it does not. Minerals works fine (as seen in replay). And yes maybe we are talking about different things :p | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
This means if you do a mass drop and want to retain all your units hotkeyed you have to wait until all units are unloaded before using hotkeys. | ||
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LML
Germany1760 Posts
On November 06 2020 22:31 MeSaber wrote: I just tested the hotkey remaining after doing a drop. Yes it does for the first unit only. Say if you use only a reaver with a shuttle you wont lose your hotkey when clicking it when its in shuttle. If you however have 2 zealots also hotkeyed with the reaver, the first time you click hotkey after a unit left the shuttle will be the units in the hotkey. This means if you do a mass drop and want to retain all your units hotkeyed you have to wait until all units are unloaded before using hotkeys. That was already mentioned on page 1 by EMPaThy789. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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