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MeSaber
Sweden257 Posts
Has someone done an extensive analysis of how Reaver work and how to utilize it to its maximum? If so where can i find this? I just watched a Tasteless game (with Reavers ofc) and got the urge to get to know everything about Reaver control and how it acts/works. If i dont find any information i guess i have to trial/error it myself and will post my findings here if there is something interesting. Stuff with Shuttle/Arbiter is involved ofc. Thx in advance! | ||
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asel
Germany1547 Posts
 Reaver Drop | ||
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EndingLife
United States1396 Posts
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EMPaThy789
New Zealand875 Posts
e.g. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, hit 3 before unloading, unload, reavers no longer hotkeyed. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, dont hit 3 before unloading, unload, 3 is still hot-keyed to reavers - If all units in a hotkey go into shuttles, you can press that hotkey without losing it. If only SOME of the hotkeyed units go into shuttles and you press that hotkey while they are loaded, then the units inside the shuttles are no longer hotkeyed. - Pressing S detonates the scarab (doesn't do damage). Useful when the scarab is stuck past the reaver's attack cd since you can't fire a second scarab until the first detonates. - A reaver hugging the minerals can shoot through without the scarab pathing around the mineral line. - Selecting the reaver and clicking on the shuttle doesn't decelerate the shuttle so long as the shuttle is moving and the shuttle is directly on top of the reaver. Selecting the shuttle and clicking on the reaver will decelerate the shuttle even if it is on top of the reaver. - Clicking on the wireframe or using unload on the shuttle itself doesn't decelerate the shuttle, using unload on the ground will decelerate the shuttle. Ez reaver micro from an old legionnaire post which I cant seem to find: - unload reaver from shuttle via wireframe/unload on shuttle - select both reaver + shuttle and click on target - hit hotkey for shuttle and send it to come back to behind the reaver - select reaver and click on shuttle as it comes back. As you get better, you can select just the reaver instead of reaver + shuttle and move the shuttle side to side instead of forward & back which can be better in certain situations (e.g. vs hydras). edit: updated incorrect parts | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden257 Posts
If you fire on a moving worker the scarab will try to intercept its vector, this is what causes the pathing error as it tries to stay behind mineral lines to intercept the worker. (Edit: Actually i think when it tries to intercept the target through its vector it just ignores whatever is in front of itself and thats why it doesnt go around minerals) If you fire on the worker when it exactly stops to mine a mineral the pathing will work flawlessly and walk around the mineral line to hit it. This is mind blowing to me as from now on i will never have a scarab timeout again. (Edit: This isnt true as you can see in my second replay that if the player starts moving all the scvs the scarabs gets pathfinding error again) https://ufile.io/pxjpt5gf This replay explains how it works meanwhile showing it in action. Laughing my ass off: https://ufile.io/4nonjtxd really watch this rep!! xD Replay that i cant explain: https://ufile.io/3v3gdac8 Whats happening in the last replay is i am moving away from the mineral line and for some reason the pathing of scarabs behaves normally at that point.. You can see its at a specific range from the minerals it starts happening... So this means you are safer just behind minerals than moving away from minerals as at that point scarabs can start working normally again.. ODD! This will be my final replay: https://ufile.io/zxn6r4j4 Seems units being idle in a wall position isnt an object that pathfinding for scarabs can go around. Moving SCV still makes the pathfinding for scarabs totally ignore everything infront of it, meanwhile standing still with SCV the pathfinding is working but it cannot see its a wall of marines. Maybe the gaps between marines are shown as a path but scarabs are 5x5 in size so they cannot fit through. | ||
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Jumperer
United States1284 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden257 Posts
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JoinTheRain
Bulgaria255 Posts
ez game ez life ez mmr jokes aside, indeed download bonyth replays and follow him closely, then try to replicate. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10357 Posts
-Scarab detonates if you hit S on the Reaver. -Shuttle speed reduces as you go get to target location | ||
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LML
Germany1331 Posts
On October 12 2020 22:47 EMPaThy789 wrote: Just some basic information regarding reaver control - If you hotkey your reavers and load them to a shuttle, they will un-hotkey if you press the hotkey while they are loaded. e.g. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, hit 3 before unloading, unload, reavers no longer hotkeyed. hotkey reavers to 3, load to shuttle, dont hit 3 before unloading, unload, 3 is still hot-keyed to reavers - Pressing S detonates the scarab (doesn't do damage). Useful when the scarab is stuck past the reaver's attack cd since you can't fire a second scarab until the first detonates. - A reaver hugging the minerals can shoot through without the scarab pathing around the mineral line. - Selecting the reaver and clicking on the shuttle doesn't decelerate the shuttle so long as the shuttle is moving. Selecting the shuttle and clicking on the reaver will decelerate the shuttle even if it is on top of the reaver. - Clicking on the wireframe or using unload on the shuttle itself doesn't decelerate the shuttle, using unload on the ground will decelerate the shuttle. Ez reaver micro from an old legionnaire post which I cant seem to find: - unload reaver from shuttle via wireframe/unload on shuttle - select both reaver + shuttle and click on target - hit hotkey for shuttle and send it to come back to behind the reaver - select reaver and click on shuttle as it comes back. As you get better, you can select just the reaver instead of reaver + shuttle and move the shuttle side to side instead of forward & back which can be better in certain situations (e.g. vs hydras). Quite a bit of false information in there. 1. Pressing the hotkey of a unit while it's in the shuttle does not erase that hotkey and once the unit is unloaded you can select it via the previously assigned hotkey again. 2. The shuttle behaves the same acceleration wise, whether you select the shuttle and right click on the reaver, or the other way around. In both cases you have to do the same thing as mentioned at the end of your post in order to keep the shuttle moving at full speed. I just tested both of these, as they sounded wrong. On October 12 2020 21:48 asel wrote: You can start here https://liquipedia.net/starcraft/Reaver_Drop Also one mistake in that liquipedia link: The "Build Scarab" command will cancel the manual target selection: a Reaver will pick a random target again after new Scarabs are queued up The build scarab command will not do anything, except queue additional scarabs. What makes your reaver lose focus of a manual target: your reaver running out of scarabs. Once your reaver is at 0 scarabs, it will lose the attack command, and therefore also its previous target. Upon a new scarab finishing, you have to manually target again immediately, otherwise the reaver will shoot at the highest priority target in range.edit: I've edited the Liquipedia page accordingly. | ||
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MineraIs
32 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden257 Posts
On October 14 2020 02:45 MineraIs wrote: Reavers bug out often due to map pathing mechanics, not the unit. If you checked my replays you will know thats not true. In replays demonstrate how i can manipulate scarabs to detonate on target or not on target. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden257 Posts
@LML actually it seems Blizzard fixed the hotkey lost in shuttle "bug". It was a thing a time ago but yes ure right, i just tested it also and you can hold the hotkey and it gets instantly selected when exiting shuttle. In my case it was a probe. @Telecom there has always been deceleration towards the endpoint of the path. Its the same when you throw a spell also like irradiate/stasis/web. Arbiter is probably the most obvious case of deceleration and thats why you usually use the trick "click infront of Arbiter, then throw spell asap" as this removes the need for it but requires micro instead. | ||
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LML
Germany1331 Posts
On October 14 2020 04:00 MeSaber wrote: @LML actually it seems Blizzard fixed the hotkey lost in shuttle "bug". It was a thing a time ago but yes ure right, i just tested it also and you can hold the hotkey and it gets instantly selected when exiting shuttle. In my case it was a probe. It works the same in 1.16.1 - so idk in which version this is supposed to not have worked. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10357 Posts
EDIT : I tend to word things poorly sometimes, in other words, would it be a safer bet to try to de accelerate the Shuttle earlier on? What happens if you are manually controlling the Shuttle + mass clicking the entire time to stay aware of where it is going? Is the Speed effected then? It never de Accelerates? That may explain why I lose Reavers so much lol | ||
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Jumperer
United States1284 Posts
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EMPaThy789
New Zealand875 Posts
On October 14 2020 02:34 LML wrote: Quite a bit of false information in there. 1. Pressing the hotkey of a unit while it's in the shuttle does not erase that hotkey and once the unit is unloaded you can select it via the previously assigned hotkey again. 2. The shuttle behaves the same acceleration wise, whether you select the shuttle and right click on the reaver, or the other way around. In both cases you have to do the same thing as mentioned at the end of your post in order to keep the shuttle moving at full speed. I just tested both of these, as they sounded wrong. Also one mistake in that liquipedia link:The build scarab command will not do anything, except queue additional scarabs. What makes your reaver lose focus of a manual target: your reaver running out of scarabs. Once your reaver is at 0 scarabs, it will lose the attack command, and therefore also its previous target. Upon a new scarab finishing, you have to manually target again immediately, otherwise the reaver will shoot at the highest priority target in range. edit: I've edited the Liquipedia page accordingly. I just checked some of the stuff and what LML said was true 1. Pressing the hotkey of a unit while it's in the shuttle does not erase that hotkey and once the unit is unloaded you can select it via the previously assigned hotkey again. So I double checked this because I distinctly remember losing reavers due to this bug back in the day (which caused me to not hotkey reavers). So the bug/interaction is as follows: - If all units in a hotkey go into shuttles, you can press that hotkey without losing it. - If only SOME of the hotkeyed units go into shuttles and you press that hotkey while they are loaded, then the units inside the shuttles are no longer hotkeyed. An example: - say you have 2 reavers hotkeyed to "2" and you load them up in a shuttle. Once they are both loaded you can press 2 as many times as you want and they will still be hotkeyed to the reavers. - If you tell your shuttle to unload and spam "2" while it unloads so you can target asap, you will end up selecting one out of the two reavers while another reaver is still in the shuttle. That second reaver that was in the shuttle is now no longer hotkeyed while the first reaver is still hotkeyed. - This bug is also why you often end up losing hotkeys on units when you accidentally pick up dragoons/archons in big battles. 2. The shuttle behaves the same acceleration wise, whether you select the shuttle and right click on the reaver, or the other way around. In both cases you have to do the same thing as mentioned at the end of your post in order to keep the shuttle moving at full speed. This is only the case if the reaver is not directly under the shuttle. If the reaver is directly under the shuttle and you tell the reaver to go into the shuttle, the shuttle will not decelerate and continue on its move command whereas the shuttle will always come to a stop if you click on the reaver with the shuttle no matter where the reaver is located. You can test this by setting the shuttle to move way past the reaver and clicking the reaver into the shuttle. Obviously you can give it more move commands so it doesn't come to a stop but this does mean that there are a few ticks where the shuttle is decelerating. Though this is mostly negligible, it can help when running from scourge. A you can also select both the reaver and the shuttle then clicking on the shuttle as it goes over the reaver which achieves the same thing if the reaver is directly under the shuttle without dis-selecting the shuttle. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden257 Posts
On October 14 2020 14:43 Jumperer wrote: LOL the amount of misinformation here is mind-boggling. Units NEVER lose hotkey when in dropship/shuttle. Reaver can shoot through the mineral line. Some units such as shuttle lose acceleration without micro. A scarab cannot go "through" a mineral line. It can however spawn at a mineral and jump over if you have the reaver close to the mineral line. What im referring to is pathing around mineral line and that can be manipulated by moving the attacked unit. See replays plz  | ||
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TelecoM
United States10357 Posts
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LML
Germany1331 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:09 TelecoM wrote: So do Shuttles de accelerate if you are constantly microing them? It depends on where you click. If you click right in front of where it's going, it will slow down to be able to stop at its destination. If the distance is big enough, then it will stay at full speed. There is also a trick to skip the acceleration period. Someone explained it to me, but I didn't get it. FBH has a video about it with dropships. | ||
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