EPTReaver tips/tricks/mechanics? - Page 3
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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LML
Germany1792 Posts
On October 19 2020 14:24 TelecoM wrote: Another interesting thing, is it pretty instant the unit turns when hit on patrol or is there a delay ? It will start turning around the moment it takes damage. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On October 19 2020 05:30 MeSaber wrote: Yes it acts as if it would be idle. For those who didnt know you can utilize this knowledge with patrol queueing also. Patrol queueing or whatever you wanna call it is when you shift-patrol 3+ locations so it patrols in a circle instead of point to point. For example you could utilize this in the way of shuttle sneaking around the map corners WITH patrol so once its hit it runs away (as if idle) and dont die. Edit: For Patrol queueing to work (iirc, will test tomorrow) you need to rightclick first a distance away to give yourself time to queue up the patrol spots. Once it gets to where you rightclicked it will start the patrol queue. Thanks. Seems pretty useless to be honest. At least for Protoss. Against Terran you want to be diving the shuttle through turrets and be microing the shuttle anyways otherwise your reaver or HT or whatever wouldn't be able to do any damage anyways, and against Zerg, it's probably scourge that "shoots" your shuttle so the technique wouldn't help you there. | ||
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Hoender
South Africa381 Posts
It seems that for some reason my reaver always wants to slowly crawl down the ramp before it even thinks of attacking, even when it's under fire >  | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
Put your reaver at those working positions and Hold it. A-move reaver is a recipe for ded reaver. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
On October 13 2020 20:23 MeSaber wrote: I just found out by trial and error why reavers dont work to fire on workers behind mineral lines. If you fire on a moving worker the scarab will try to intercept its vector, this is what causes the pathing error as it tries to stay behind mineral lines to intercept the worker. (Edit: Actually i think when it tries to intercept the target through its vector it just ignores whatever is in front of itself and thats why it doesnt go around minerals) If you fire on the worker when it exactly stops to mine a mineral the pathing will work flawlessly and walk around the mineral line to hit it. This is mind blowing to me as from now on i will never have a scarab timeout again. (Edit: This isnt true as you can see in my second replay that if the player starts moving all the scvs the scarabs gets pathfinding error again) https://ufile.io/pxjpt5gf This replay explains how it works meanwhile showing it in action. Laughing my ass off: https://ufile.io/4nonjtxd really watch this rep!! xD Replay that i cant explain: https://ufile.io/3v3gdac8 Whats happening in the last replay is i am moving away from the mineral line and for some reason the pathing of scarabs behaves normally at that point.. You can see its at a specific range from the minerals it starts happening... So this means you are safer just behind minerals than moving away from minerals as at that point scarabs can start working normally again.. ODD! This will be my final replay: https://ufile.io/zxn6r4j4 Seems units being idle in a wall position isnt an object that pathfinding for scarabs can go around. Moving SCV still makes the pathfinding for scarabs totally ignore everything infront of it, meanwhile standing still with SCV the pathfinding is working but it cannot see its a wall of marines. Maybe the gaps between marines are shown as a path but scarabs are 5x5 in size so they cannot fit through. A Scarab getting stuck or dudding out is caused by its not being able to find a valid path towards its target, due to other units and/or unwalkable terrain getting in the way. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
On October 14 2020 22:09 TelecoM wrote: So do Shuttles de accelerate if you are constantly microing them? It's decelerate, plain and simple. They decelerate if they are within a certain (close) range of their current target position. So as long as you keep constantly issuing new movement orders sufficiently far away from it, it will not decelerate. About the loading mechanic: A normally issuing a loading command on a unit will have the transport and unit move towars each other until they are in loading range, then the unit will get picked up. The Shuttle of course will decelerate if it's close enough to the unit. If the Shuttle is going at full speed within loading range of the unit when the command is given though, and if the Shuttle receives a new movement command directly after, the deceleration will be reduced to the time span it takes to renew the movement order on the Shuttle. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
On October 15 2020 03:41 MeSaber wrote: True but that has nothing to do with minerals. Minerals themselves are not an issue if you can fire or not. Doodads and cliffs i would guess is the primary culprit if your reaver cant find a target though in range. Its very specific locations and its mostly because map maker didnt know about it being a thing. Edit: Oh and with "bug out" i thought he meant scarab not finding target. It's been known to be a thing for long time, by map makers too. It's caused by bad pathfinding region layouts that lead to an overestimation of long range pathfinding distances, and hence to an effective reduction in Reaver range. The problem was that it was impossible to detect and very hard to fix in the editor, due to a lack of a pathfinding region overlay, which we now have. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
On October 21 2020 01:14 Hoender wrote: Does anyone have tips on how to control a reaver (without shuttle) to consistently shoot down ramps? Specifically in PvP scenarios. It seems that for some reason my reaver always wants to slowly crawl down the ramp before it even thinks of attacking, even when it's under fire > This is the aforementioned Reaver jam bug. What the Reaver is trying to do it to reach the next pathfinding region, from where it would be considered in range (ground travel distance, not attack range, as the Scarab is a ground unit!) of the target. The best thing you can do about it is start a shitstorm about the issue on the Blizzard forums. I am not kidding. We need more player pressure on Blizzard (and the organizers of big tournaments, foremost Afreeca) to have these map bugs fixed. | ||
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Hoender
South Africa381 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:00 Freakling wrote: This is the aforementioned Reaver jam bug. What the Reaver is trying to do it to reach the next pathfinding region, from where it would be considered in range (ground travel distance, not attack range, as the Scarab is a ground unit!) of the target. The best thing you can do about it is start a shitstorm about the issue on the Blizzard forums. I am not kidding. We need more player pressure on Blizzard (and the organizers of big tournaments, foremost Afreeca) to have these map bugs fixed. I see, are there specific ramps and maps to look out for? Knowing that a specific starting position has a "bad" ramp will definitely cause me to forego 1 gate robo and rather open 2 gate goon. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10743 Posts
On October 28 2020 04:29 Hoender wrote: I see, are there specific ramps and maps to look out for? Knowing that a specific starting position has a "bad" ramp will definitely cause me to forego 1 gate robo and rather open 2 gate goon. In my experience (I don't know if this is true, just through personal experiences, feelings , thoughts.) it always seems easier to shoot in a downward or Southern direction, and it always seems a lot more difficult for the Reaver to shoot in the northern direction (down the ramp still), but I have not tested this, it is just speculation. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
To specify: Don't think any specific type of ramp or tileset has anything to do with it. The walkability and terrain level flags of all the map's terrain tiles are what determines the pathfinding region layout, and thus ultimately the map layout as a whole and all the little terrain details in it. To make this clear again: Most of these bugs can easily be detected in the editor and the only real difficulty in fixing them is that you have to simultaneously keep an eye on other pathfinding issues, like mining bugs, vortices or bad scout paths. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
On October 28 2020 03:35 Freakling wrote: A Scarab getting stuck or dudding out is caused by its not being able to find a valid path towards its target, due to other units and/or unwalkable terrain getting in the way. Ure completely wrong. See my replays plz before making statements like this. Scarabs works perfectly fine if the target is static which is shown in the replay(s). Yes you can surround the target so scarab cant find a way through but that has nothing to do with pathfinding but the actual size of the scarab not being able to squeeze between two obstacles. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
Resources blocking a path (or part of it) are also just units. And finding gaps where a unit can move through is part of pathfinding (though one that does not necessarily always work as expected or intended…) | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
I did a wall of rines and the scarab didnt go around them but tried to find a path between em. Seemingly showing that units compared to resources do have gaps where pathing is searched and bugs out the scarab even though target is static. Protoss have this kind of issue too where if you have a wall of buildings cutting your way to your exp when doing a probe transfer they can become "stuck" not finding their way fast enough so you have to manually path em. That or waiting a very long time until it resolves by itself. I dont think this is whats happening to scarabs though. In all my tests the scarab is very agile and seem to have zero acceleration issues, i just think it shows a path it just cant fit through. | ||
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Freakling
Germany1533 Posts
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
However when you have marines as a wall it does not. Minerals works fine (as seen in replay). And yes maybe we are talking about different things :p | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
This means if you do a mass drop and want to retain all your units hotkeyed you have to wait until all units are unloaded before using hotkeys. | ||
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LML
Germany1792 Posts
On November 06 2020 22:31 MeSaber wrote: I just tested the hotkey remaining after doing a drop. Yes it does for the first unit only. Say if you use only a reaver with a shuttle you wont lose your hotkey when clicking it when its in shuttle. If you however have 2 zealots also hotkeyed with the reaver, the first time you click hotkey after a unit left the shuttle will be the units in the hotkey. This means if you do a mass drop and want to retain all your units hotkeyed you have to wait until all units are unloaded before using hotkeys. That was already mentioned on page 1 by EMPaThy789. | ||
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MeSaber
Sweden1235 Posts
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