EPTZvP counter dragoons - Page 2
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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paper
13197 Posts
it was so sexy with all the micro :OOO anyone got? ^^ | ||
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LxRogue
United States1415 Posts
Later game you have to react to what he does, just keep your scouting up so you don't get caught with the wrong tech. | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9111 Posts
The more likely situation would be that he'll be able to take his nat and you'll contain from there with lurks in which case you need to expand to 3rd and maybe your 4th expansion and make ling/hydra/lurk/scourge for contain while teching to ultra/ling or stay with lair tech and go for drops or something if you want. | ||
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
a) mass speedlings b) mass hydra c) mass muta d) muta/ling or muta/hydra Any of these work if he's going goon from one base. Because the lack of gas will mean lack of proper support for goons. If he's getting goon/reaver (which is most likely) then hydra/muta will work. Just use mutas to target reavers/shuttle first. Then use your hydra to finish off the rest. Don't overexpand, and try to catch him on an open field. He can cause problems if you're trying to fight on a corridor. If he's going goon/templar then mass lings is great. Just be sure to send 2 groups of lings with move near his goons so he can't storm everything. A nice surround and he's toast. Goon/archon or goon/sair will die to mass hydra. Hydras are far cheaper and more effective than goons with equal economies, not to mention your eco will probably be better if he didn't apply any pressure at first. But seriously, Jonoman wtf? Going for lurk contain vs goon? You do know that goons is what tosses usually use to break out of heavy lurk contains right? Also "hope he doesn't have observer"? The best combo he could get is goon/reaver. Which means he probably has robotics, or was planning to get it anyway. Going for lurk contain is probably the worst idea vs goons. Seriously. | ||
Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On July 10 2007 09:23 Chill wrote: Going Hydras against Dragoons is a pretty bad idea too. There's no reason not to go MutaLing. Other things can work, but you don't sacrifise anything by going MutaLing, and it is the proper counter. LOL i m a huge noob but i know that hydras rape goons with ease. They are cheaper and very good vs EVERY protoss units except high templar. Pure hydra will work until toss has massed a lot of high templar, so u can switch to ultraling late game. On the contrary goons arent good vs lings ( u need zeal, archon, ht ), mutas ( u need archon or sair ) and hydras ( u need speedzeal or ht ). Nevertheless they are usefull against lurks. edit: speedlots could be annoying if you have not a lot of hydras. ANd btw CubEdIn post is the best so far | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9111 Posts
On July 10 2007 09:01 CubEdIn wrote: DO NOT get lurks vs goons. That's the worst of your options. Seriously. Yeah they might work if you catch him well and surround with lings and such but why the hell would you go through all that trouble when you could: a) mass speedlings b) mass hydra c) mass muta d) muta/ling or muta/hydra Any of these work if he's going goon from one base. Because the lack of gas will mean lack of proper support for goons. If he's getting goon/reaver (which is most likely) then hydra/muta will work. Just use mutas to target reavers/shuttle first. Then use your hydra to finish off the rest. Don't overexpand, and try to catch him on an open field. He can cause problems if you're trying to fight on a corridor. If he's going goon/templar then mass lings is great. Just be sure to send 2 groups of lings with move near his goons so he can't storm everything. A nice surround and he's toast. Goon/archon or goon/sair will die to mass hydra. Hydras are far cheaper and more effective than goons with equal economies, not to mention your eco will probably be better if he didn't apply any pressure at first. But seriously, Jonoman wtf? Going for lurk contain vs goon? You do know that goons is what tosses usually use to break out of heavy lurk contains right? Also "hope he doesn't have observer"? The best combo he could get is goon/reaver. Which means he probably has robotics, or was planning to get it anyway. Going for lurk contain is probably the worst idea vs goons. Seriously. If he is seriously going to go dragoon off one base then you can just stay with mass hydra maybe hydra/ling but if you see he is teching archives (OP never said his opponent was going reaver/goon) then they will be gas deprived and they can't see lurks so can't attack them. And lurk/ling/hydra contain off of 2-3 bases from Z well positioned will rape goons because as soon as the P tries to attack the lurks the zerg just rushes their ling/hydra forward and demolish the P. With reavers in the mix it becomes a matter of if Z just wants to back off and expand more OR try to mass off of their existing 2-3 bases and try to power over the P in an attempt to stop the push out and pretty much end the game. -I agree that hydra/muta could work too. Lots of things could work because a P going one base goons just seems like a weak build while a FE to mass goon/reaver might be pretty viable. | ||
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
On July 10 2007 11:13 Boblion wrote: LOL i m a huge noob but i know that hydras rape goons with ease. They are cheaper and very good vs EVERY protoss units except high templar. Pure hydra will work until toss has massed a lot of high templar, so u can switch to ultraling late game. On the contrary goons arent good vs lings ( u need zeal, archon, ht ), mutas ( u need archon or sair ) and hydras ( u need speedzeal or ht ). Nevertheless they are usefull against lurks. edit: speedlots could be annoying if you have not a lot of hydras. ANd btw CubEdIn post is the best so far yes, maybe if youre playing fastest map possible. otherwise, if youre going hydras and not mutas youre not exploiting the fact that goons are so immobile. | ||
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
Hydra/Ling Muta/Ling Pure ling with double evo running ups Just pick one, I'd go with Muta/Ling as you can raid his workers as well. If he goes sairs and goons off of 1 base, make some scourge to pick off the sairs. If he switches to archons, you switch to hydra, etc etc. Play ZvP like Rock Paper Scissors and you win, as long as you switch to counter what he's going. | ||
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Chill
Calgary26004 Posts
On July 10 2007 11:13 Boblion wrote: LOL i m a huge noob but i know that hydras rape goons with ease. They are cheaper and very good vs EVERY protoss units except high templar. Pure hydra will work until toss has massed a lot of high templar, so u can switch to ultraling late game. On the contrary goons arent good vs lings ( u need zeal, archon, ht ), mutas ( u need archon or sair ) and hydras ( u need speedzeal or ht ). Nevertheless they are usefull against lurks. edit: speedlots could be annoying if you have not a lot of hydras. ANd btw CubEdIn post is the best so far Why do I even try? GOD FUCKING DAMMIT I FUCKING HATE THE STRATEGY FORUM. | ||
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On July 10 2007 11:38 Chill wrote: Why do I even try? GOD FUCKING DAMMIT I FUCKING HATE THE STRATEGY FORUM. Well i just said that mass hydra can work vs nearly everything protoss has. I dont understand why it would be a bad idea to use it against goons. On July 10 2007 11:36 YoUr_KiLLeR wrote: yes, maybe if youre playing fastest map possible. otherwise, if youre going hydras and not mutas youre not exploiting the fact that goons are so immobile. I didnt said that mutas suck against goon ( mutaling is great imo ). I just said that mass hydra works also even if mutaling is more mobile. Moreover many top zerg players dont use muts vs p so dont call me fastest map player please. I'm noob but i m not retarded. | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
On July 09 2007 11:33 Schones_Chaos wrote: Then he gets high templars and storms mutas/lings then ultralisk the shit out of him | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
There is no proper way to beat this, just micro out of the storm, as in only move the units in the storm out of the storm. It will come to by time. ^ and yea ultras kinda useless imo without lings...unless u have like 20 of them ^ mass anything only works if u have good micro...other wise 6 temps with storm can hurt really really bad. ^ toss has more options vs mutas, so muta harass not gonna work for long. its nice if u have them as part of ur force though. dont be afraid of a 1base toss build. as long as u kill their army when he coems out, you will be fine, cause tehrs no way hes going heavy goons and expecting any kind of tech along with that. by then, you would have like 4 gases and when u guyz kill each other off, you would have a serious upper hand. | ||
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
goon\reaver->muta corsair->scourge then when he go for ht u simply switch to hra simple as thati | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
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Wonders
Australia753 Posts
On July 10 2007 12:19 Boblion wrote: Well i just said that mass hydra can work vs nearly everything protoss has. I dont understand why it would be a bad idea to use it against goons. ... I didnt said that mutas suck against goon ( mutaling is great imo ). I just said that mass hydra works also even if mutaling is more mobile. Moreover many top zerg players dont use muts vs p so dont call me fastest map player please. I'm noob but i m not retarded. Mass hydra works against about nothing that the protoss has except for a pure goon army without templar. They're terrible against speedzeals and terrible against storm. | ||
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Resonate
United Kingdom8402 Posts
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Boblion
France8043 Posts
On July 11 2007 22:18 Wonders wrote: Mass hydra works against about nothing that the protoss has except for a pure goon army without templar. They're terrible against speedzeals and terrible against storm. Read my posts: On July 10 2007 11:13 Boblion wrote: They are cheaper and very good vs EVERY protoss units except high templar. Pure hydra will work until toss has massed a lot of high templar, so u can switch to ultraling late game ---------------------------------------------------- edit: speedlots could be annoying if you have not a lot of hydras. ANd btw CubEdIn post is the best so far Well i think that speedzeal and ht arent the only protoss units. Are archon, slowzeal, reavers, goons, carriers, sairs nothing ? Because mass hydras works very well against it. Of course mutaling and hydraling ( u will usually have more mineral than vespene so you can use it to make lings ) can work too and be better ( depending on the situation ). | ||
riptide
5673 Posts
Good luck. | ||
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