• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:13
CEST 14:13
KST 21:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202568RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced3BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Server Blocker Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Simple editing of Brood War save files? (.mlx) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 638 users

ZvP counter dragoons

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Schones_Chaos
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States226 Posts
July 09 2007 02:27 GMT
#1
What if your playing zerg vs toss. They go for dragoons imediatly while stil blocking their ramp with zelots? if i go for mutas he get sairs..
what do i do?
"Dont kill two birds with one stone, Bring a shotgun and get all the birds..."
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
July 09 2007 02:29 GMT
#2
muta's with lings into hydras with the rest of that. vs sairs use 2-6 scourge with that.
Schones_Chaos
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States226 Posts
July 09 2007 02:33 GMT
#3
Then he gets high templars and storms mutas/lings
"Dont kill two birds with one stone, Bring a shotgun and get all the birds..."
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
July 09 2007 02:41 GMT
#4
If you post a replay we would be able to help you much more than you simply describing everything.

If I was in your situation, I'd probably skip Mutalisk altogether and just go lurkling or something. If you've scouted out his base already you can also try to crush him with pure Drone drilling + Zerglings so you can bash down his Zealot wall and then continue on to kill his Dragoons with your Zerglings (Speedlings work better ofc).
^-^
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
July 09 2007 02:48 GMT
#5
Going lurk ling vs goon/reaver?

:/

If he's gooning 90% he won't be able to afford templars, expect reavers, and use muta clumps to pick off templars.
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7222 Posts
July 09 2007 03:37 GMT
#6
On July 09 2007 11:33 Schones_Chaos wrote:
Then he gets high templars and storms mutas/lings


Tell me how he's getting mass goon/sair/storm while you're outexpanding him?
日本語が分かりますか
imBLIND
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2626 Posts
July 09 2007 03:44 GMT
#7
lings>goons.
Ramp is a different story though. imo. toss wont be able to grab temp or reaver tech before u get a 3rd gas if hes going for a sizable number of goons.
Zerg players gotta know how to split their units so they dont get massively stormed to death, so just snipe the temps as best as u can with mutas.
im deaf
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
July 09 2007 03:53 GMT
#8
replay plz~~

if he's turtling, just contain? We'll see what it's like when you post rep i guess.
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
July 09 2007 04:05 GMT
#9
Lings are really overrated against goons, unless he lets you surround goons really fare decently, but lings with hydra muta or maybe lurk support work very well.
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
July 09 2007 04:14 GMT
#10
He can't have enough gas to go goons and sairs in sufficient numbers so you did something wrong. Usually just go Muta, he can't leave his base then, add lings if you want. Hydras can work as well.
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25980 Posts
July 09 2007 04:19 GMT
#11
MutaLing > Goon*
next.
Moderator
w3jjjj
Profile Joined April 2007
United States760 Posts
July 09 2007 04:50 GMT
#12
constant muta harrasses, if he goes sairs his reavers will be delayed and without reavers he can't attack ur muta/ling force. contain and expand like the map is yours, when resources allow switch to mass hydra/lurker like u normally do, continue to contain and expand and power to ultra/crackling, and lets see, just run over him?

goons are always supported by reavers, and reavers are always carried in shuttles, if u can't contain a good toss, take a few scourges and try to snipe the shuttle, at the same time mass muta/ling and expand. i wouldn't attack a goon/reaver/cannon defense with only muta/ling...try ur best to contain.
Chuck Norris can salvage his opponent's structures.
LeoTheLion
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
China958 Posts
July 09 2007 04:52 GMT
#13
On July 09 2007 13:19 Chill wrote:
MutaLing > Goon*
next.


agreed

my worst mu is zvp

but i know that 2 groups of ling + 1 group of muta can fuck up 2 groups of goons hard

don't let him take his expo, and match his army while you expo/tech

keep him on his toes by harassing with muta and chasing his corsairs with scourge
Communism is not love. Communism is a hammer which we use to crush the enemy. -Chairman Mao
ilovezil
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
United States4143 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-07-09 05:22:48
July 09 2007 05:16 GMT
#14
Although there are too many variables that you have not given, I'll assume what I'm thinking in my head and give you this:

In the zerg vs protoss matchup, I find that dragoons are most useful when breaking contains. The gas that dragoons eat up are better spent on templars, archons, and upgrades. Simple put, the more dragoons you force your opponent to make, the less storms and archons you'll encounter.

Now, from what I understand, your opponent is making dragoons at a very early stage in the game. This is a golden opportunity for you to either tech or upgrade safely while adding another hatchery (possibly as an expo). Mass speedlings are a favorable counter against early goons because goons are less easliy replacable than lings due to more costly and demanding production. Remember, you can always adapt to what your opponent does from this point; get lurkers if he decides to switch to zeals/ht/archon, and get mutas if he's going to persist in using goon/zeal.

Use a 3 hatch build to open. While you're whoring lings and drones, you can slowly tech and grab expoes since you won't be dealing with high tech power from the Protoss anytime soon. You'll be ahead of your opponent, even upgrade-wise if you keep researching carapace to deal with any power-ups on your opponent's weapon upgrade. From hereon out, just steamroll him with hydras, lurkers, mutas, ultras, whatever combination of Zerg that runs like diarhea from the overmind's ass.

However...I'm judging that you're around public newb level from your opening post, so I hope what I explained was helpful -_-.

EDIT: And against sairs, hydras are your best friends.
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
July 09 2007 09:53 GMT
#15
You are in the state of newbie confusion where your greatest concern is "GOD NOTHING WORKS IMBA!"
right?
T_T
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
BlueIris
Profile Joined November 2006
Korea (South)107 Posts
July 09 2007 09:58 GMT
#16
On July 09 2007 18:53 evanthebouncy! wrote:
You are in the state of newbie confusion where your greatest concern is "GOD NOTHING WORKS IMBA!"
right?
T_T


Yes
Play like your first, Train like your second
I-Emerge
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States435 Posts
July 09 2007 10:04 GMT
#17
On July 09 2007 11:27 Schones_Chaos wrote:
What if your playing zerg vs toss. They go for dragoons imediatly while stil blocking their ramp with zelots? if i go for mutas he get sairs..
what do i do?

Hi

Most of the people here has answer your question. I would liek to add that by the time he has a Sair you should have 1 to 3 hydra to keep your Ovys alive. Once your Muta come out you want to make some Scourge right away. Go to Toss's base with Muta and Scourge and kill his 1 or 2 Sair he has.

---I-Emerge
A punch is just a punch. Then a punch becomes more than a punch. A punch becomes just a punch again.
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
July 09 2007 11:58 GMT
#18
On July 09 2007 18:58 BlueIris wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2007 18:53 evanthebouncy! wrote:
You are in the state of newbie confusion where your greatest concern is "GOD NOTHING WORKS IMBA!"
right?
T_T


Yes


Oh wow! BlueIris is back! <3
^-^
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
July 09 2007 12:02 GMT
#19
Massive Hydra/Ling army, MAUL TIME!
if you still lose, your macro bad! MORE HYDRA LING PLZ!
I'd imagine his storm will be terribly late due to all that gas usage, but still be careful as ranged dragoon is strong! Work on your flanking and remember to focus fire on the dragoon! Double upgrade hydra and speedling is must.
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
July 09 2007 12:08 GMT
#20
Evan has the best insight here. It just sounds like you're getting outplayed.

If you're just going to describe the situation without a replay, you need to be more specific. Does "immediate" goons mean goons before expansion? When you go muta are you opening 3 hat Lair or what? If he goes sairs to counter mutalisks, is that off of 1 gas, or does he already have his expansion? Etc.
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #94
CranKy Ducklings102
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech51
BRAT_OK 9
MindelVK 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 37545
Horang2 3285
Barracks 3165
Leta 2482
Shuttle 1773
Bisu 1446
Jaedong 822
Flash 775
BeSt 568
EffOrt 454
[ Show more ]
Larva 347
firebathero 316
ToSsGirL 215
Last 180
Hyun 147
Soulkey 140
ZerO 73
Soma 70
Rush 64
JulyZerg 56
Sea.KH 46
Shinee 37
Free 34
sSak 28
zelot 22
sorry 20
sas.Sziky 16
scan(afreeca) 7
IntoTheRainbow 6
JYJ2
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
Gorgc1707
XcaliburYe728
XaKoH 9
League of Legends
febbydoto5
Counter-Strike
fl0m1296
sgares110
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor232
Other Games
singsing2097
B2W.Neo1287
Beastyqt868
crisheroes378
Fuzer 292
qojqva51
ZerO(Twitch)22
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 23
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH281
• StrangeGG 50
• Adnapsc2 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 140
League of Legends
• Jankos1633
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1h 48m
CSO Cup
3h 48m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5h 48m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
20h 48m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 1h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 5h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL Team Wars
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.