EPT[Q] Anyone has strategy for fastest map ???
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hanhcom
37 Posts
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YoUr_KiLLeR
United States3420 Posts
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alpskomleko
Slovenia950 Posts
..dude, just make a shitload of cannons and stuff and go all carriers, that seems to be what everyone does. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
And I see this thread closing in 5..4..3..2..1.. | ||
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Polemarch
Canada1564 Posts
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
That doesnt meant it'll never work though. Late game you can hallucinate your shuttle and help it get through. Or send a few sairs with it etc etc you get the idea. A fun strat I've tried for shits and giggles a couple of times is as such: Choose terran. Send the first scv you build to scout your enemy. Once you find him, start constructing an ebay in a hidden part of his main. Once done, float it over his minerals and cover them completely. This will prevent him from sending new workers to mine while you aren't hindered in this respect, thus giving you a huge monetary advantage. You can continue building ebays and floating them over his minerals. He'll be forced to get cannons/goons, hydra/spore or marines to get rid of them. Proxy rax with bat rush to his probes is fun too. There wont be too many cannons by that time (and sometimes none), but you can focus fire and all the probes on at least one side of the mineral patch. | ||
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skyglow1
New Zealand3962 Posts
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MarcX
Netherlands772 Posts
Another great strategy is to make the geysers unbuildable with a map making trick, then put real geysers on an elevated piece of ground in the middle of the map (+ rigged mins). At the start of the game quickly fly your command center over there and laugh as the others try to climb the elevated ground without vespene (while you mass BC or w/e). Good for a LOT of fun in backstabbing comp stomping games. I may still have some hilarous rwts. Some people using this trick ban all the other terrans, but that's unnecessary. Just be there faster than he, flying barracks over doesn't really work once you get settled on the high ground. For other races: Advanced variation: Purposely create a terrain flaw that allows you to hop to high ground with any race, and then expand to the middle (hard, requires practice). Easy variation: Make a "bridge" in the elevated ground so that units can walk up (requires advanced editor, any square of passable terrain will suffice), behind a 50k mineral wall. You can also just create a ramp in staredit. Hop the mineral wall and expand on the high ground. Not really a sure win, but few comp stompers can hop units over minerals, and then they still have to discover it fast enough (as soon as you settle there's no way they're going to climb the ramp with ling/marine/zealot that first has to hop a wall. The easy variation isn't as much fun as the main variation because you can only do it once. I've played the same guys loads of times and won because of superior build, allowing me to take the high ground first vs other terran. The advanced variation would in theory also lead to the same problems (after you do it once they would copy you after watching rep), but the trick is so hard to pull off that for all practical purposes you can keep owning the same guys as many times as you like. Note: to make the geysers unbuildable you'll need an advanced editor, I believe. In staredit I suppose you could just remove them, but that really takes a lot of the fun out of the in-game chatting you can observe while doing this. | ||
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Hot77.iEy
Finland1486 Posts
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MarcX
Netherlands772 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
power as he's forced to get cannons or something to get rid of it | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
Best way to play fastest is to join a public comp stomp on it and then backstab everyone. | ||
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BluzMan
Russian Federation4235 Posts
On January 09 2007 02:41 MarcX wrote: This post just proves what all those FPM players are. Change the map in editor bla bla bla. Bweh, you are disgusting.Back in the day I used to terran every fastest game and ebay rush. Even more devious to attack his workers while doing that (scv harass), he can't pull them off or he risks losing even more money. Another great strategy is to make the geysers unbuildable with a map making trick, then put real geysers on an elevated piece of ground in the middle of the map (+ rigged mins). At the start of the game quickly fly your command center over there and laugh as the others try to climb the elevated ground without vespene (while you mass BC or w/e). Good for a LOT of fun in backstabbing comp stomping games. I may still have some hilarous rwts. Some people using this trick ban all the other terrans, but that's unnecessary. Just be there faster than he, flying barracks over doesn't really work once you get settled on the high ground. For other races: Advanced variation: Purposely create a terrain flaw that allows you to hop to high ground with any race, and then expand to the middle (hard, requires practice). Easy variation: Make a "bridge" in the elevated ground so that units can walk up (requires advanced editor, any square of passable terrain will suffice), behind a 50k mineral wall. You can also just create a ramp in staredit. Hop the mineral wall and expand on the high ground. Not really a sure win, but few comp stompers can hop units over minerals, and then they still have to discover it fast enough (as soon as you settle there's no way they're going to climb the ramp with ling/marine/zealot that first has to hop a wall. The easy variation isn't as much fun as the main variation because you can only do it once. I've played the same guys loads of times and won because of superior build, allowing me to take the high ground first vs other terran. The advanced variation would in theory also lead to the same problems (after you do it once they would copy you after watching rep), but the trick is so hard to pull off that for all practical purposes you can keep owning the same guys as many times as you like. Note: to make the geysers unbuildable you'll need an advanced editor, I believe. In staredit I suppose you could just remove them, but that really takes a lot of the fun out of the in-game chatting you can observe while doing this. | ||
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yubee
United States3826 Posts
On January 09 2007 05:08 BluzMan wrote: This post just proves what all those FPM players are. Change the map in editor bla bla bla. Bweh, you are disgusting. agreed. real solid strat MarcX, you jackass | ||
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MarcX
Netherlands772 Posts
(Comp stompers are just begging to be fooled around with) | ||
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alpskomleko
Slovenia950 Posts
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PePe QuiCoSE
Argentina1204 Posts
brb, gotta go a steal candy from little girls... | ||
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alpskomleko
Slovenia950 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
On January 09 2007 07:40 thedeadhaji wrote: good or bad advice aside, i enjoyed reading MarcX's post me too | ||
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
As for strats... mass reaver drop, temp+zeal shuttle pretty much guarantees all their workers getting fried, maxing out on zealots and run in, etc. | ||
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distant_voice
Germany2521 Posts
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lololol
5198 Posts
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 09 2007 08:14 azndsh wrote: Z is funnest to play I think. Get your allies to cover you if they're decent, power hatches, power drones. You'll definitely max out economy twice as quickly as someone with dual nexus. As for strats... mass reaver drop, temp+zeal shuttle pretty much guarantees all their workers getting fried, maxing out on zealots and run in, etc. No man, zerg isn't fun at all on fastest (and its also the weakest). I played zerg ONCE on fastest, and it was such a pain in the ass I swore I never would again. The problem with zerg is laying down mass hatches and macroing off them. Mass gates for toss is very easy, and mass factories or rax are also easy, especially if the player is familiar with the diamond formation of placing factories for maximum efficiency over a given area. Mass hatches is fucking crazy. You have to wait for the larvae from adjacent hatcheries to move out of the way, so you can place hatches as close as possible. If you wait, you fall behind. The other option is to lay hatches out of range of the larvae, but that means a lower amount of hatches per unit space, and you fall behind. Macroing is worse. With 30 hatches, you have to select each hatchery and press SH or SM or w/e (as opposed to one button for toss and terran macro), and the chance that a hit wont register is greater. Basically, its a pain in the ass and its not fun at all >< That said it isn't impossible to win with zerg on your team. I think lurkers and late game spell tech are very strong on fastest. But its not like I have a lot of experience with this. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
All these comments are based on 1;1. First of all, I tend to think that p has the biggest advantage in fastest. For t, the best strat I've seen is a quick acad into bat rush to sneak behind his choke and take out his workers. After that, you pump mm and mass tanks/vults, varying the amounts of each depending on the race of your opponent (almost like low money style, only on a much bigger basis). For z, the normal strat I see is 2hatch pool, then build up to maybe 5-6 hatches, pump lings, and mass hydras. You will have at least 12 hatcheries by the time you're around 100-150 pop. Later on, you can get guards, ultras, or defilers, and it's more or less personal preference. The key is to not get killed by a rush from p (mass zeals) or from t (mm rush), so make sure you have enough sunkens. For p, the usual strat I like to do is pylon, gateway, gateway, gateway, pylon, gateway, forge, nexus, or a close variant of that. You build the first pylon with your 7th worker as soon as it comes out (you will have 100 minerals exactly). Scout with it. The first gateway will be built with your 8th worker as soon as it comes out (150 minerals exactly). Likewise, the next one will be built with your 9th, and so on until your 4th gateway. I've found that the timing for this build is excellent because everything seems to be right on schedule. If I'm playing a t, i get a forge after my 2nd gateway and do a zeal/cannon rush (which kills the t about 75% of the time). If not, I pump some zeals and mass goons. If I'm playing a z, I usually get my nexus earlier since the z will almost always play passively until he has enough to break out and attack (which isn't for a while since you'll have more zeals than he can stop). I then mass zeal/temps, building very few goons, and break out when I'm maybe around the 100-150 mark. This combo is actually very hard to stop, because you can simply storm any mass of units that head your way, killing them instantly. I used this strat in one of the tournaments I played in, and I was undefeated against z. For p, you need to make sure you have enough zeals at the beginning to match your opponent's. After that, you mass goons, much like against t. For late game, you can build some sair/carrier/arbiter, but I tend to stick to just sair/arbiter and leave the carriers out. There are two key elements: building another nexus (often two total) behind your minerals to get more workers and storm dropping your opponent, both of which are crucial. For storm dropping, you will need to time it as to not delay your macroing, but soon enough that it will do considerable damage to his econ (in other words, sometime between 5-10 minutes). Make a shuttle, put in 2 temps/2 zeals, and back it up either with a sair or another shuttle. Send in both (or more if you have more), drop quickly, and take out his workers. The same can be done with hallucinations, but I tend to find that that takes too long. [edit] For z, you do not have to select each hatchery to macro. The easiest way is to simply ctrl + click your larva, which will automatically select 12. However, the best way in my opinion is to simply box 12 larva with your mouse and build. This doesn't work when you have units that have already hatched that get in the way, so resort to ctrl in that case. If anyone is interested, I can upload some replays (if I can find any). | ||
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hanhcom
37 Posts
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OnlyProtoss
Bhutan37 Posts
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 09:28 OnlyProtoss wrote: marine n medic rush with firebat in fmp u cant lose. It's because of the amount of money u get in such an early period like 5 minutes 12 barracks pumping medics/rines/bats is gosu on fmp. You can lose, but I can agree that it's very hard to stop on fastest. If you're playing p, you really need to make sure you keep on top of your unit production, and probably make cannons at your choke to keep him from breaking in (usually 3-5 is enough). However, you cannot get 12 rax in 5 minutes, and when you do get 12 rax, the p will have enough to easily break his offensive. Another thing: some t always forget the importance of getting detection in the form of turrets against dt rushes. Making a comsat is usually out the question since you'll need to build another cc just to make it. However, a lot of t players will tend to build their usual 4-5 rax in the beginning to put pressure, then jump straight to factories, making them easy prey to your dts. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 03:18 intrigue wrote: a good trick is building a rax or something, and then just floating over his mineral patch so he can't click on it and make his workers mine =) power as he's forced to get cannons or something to get rid of it This works wonders against z. On January 09 2007 05:08 BluzMan wrote: This post just proves what all those FPM players are. Change the map in editor bla bla bla. Bweh, you are disgusting. "All those FPM players?" | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On January 09 2007 09:03 Gandalf wrote: Macroing is worse. With 30 hatches, you have to select each hatchery and press SH or SM or w/e (as opposed to one button for toss and terran macro), and the chance that a hit wont register is greater. ctrl+click larvae and build 12 at a time, that works much faster | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
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Chobo_Abe
United States168 Posts
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paaltje
Netherlands359 Posts
best way is mass reaver cors temps vs z. mass temp zeolot vs t. mass reaver and reaver recall with hallu arbiters vs p. and don't forget to storm workers ever 30 sec (3 lots +1 ht in shuttle, start unloading zeals, so the canons around the main will attack zealots. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 10:20 paaltje wrote: ur guys are all wrong ! best way is mass reaver cors temps vs z. mass temp zeolot vs t. mass reaver and reaver recall with hallu arbiters vs p. and don't forget to storm workers ever 30 sec (3 lots +1 ht in shuttle, start unloading zeals, so the canons around the main will attack zealots. Reavers take too long to get. I'm always able to out-mass my opponent with solid zeal/goon before he can do any real damage. As for storm dropping, 2 ht + 2 zeal works better because chances are you're not going to unload all three zeals in time, and the extra ht will help if you lose one and/or for an extra storm. Like I said earlier, make sure you send in more than just that one shuttle when dropping or you'll probably lose it. By the way, if your nex first, you'll be very vulnerable (just like FE in low money). If your opponent is decent, he should be able to rush and beat you. I used to do nex first, then get my 2nd nex after my forge, but I found that it's really hard to pull off in 1;1. In 2;2, it's possible. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 09 2007 10:12 Chobo_Abe wrote: please don't write down BO on this thread or else it'll look something like this, depot rax gas depot rax depot rax depot rax rax rax rax rax rax depot factory factory factory depot factory factory starport starport starport starport starport science facility science facliity rax rax rax rax rax. And saying zerg is worst race in fastest and you're wrong. They can 1) mass lings and rush a unsuspecting late gamer B) make defilers faster then science vessels can irritate. C) Send in 30 mutas and a queen and INFEST the cc. D) PvZ imba works on fastest maps too Well I'm not an experienced fastest player or anything so I cant refute your argument with any degree of authority, but I do feel you're wrong: Zerg generally need to out resource their opponents to be on equal footing. With an equal number of bases/mining rate, things tend to disfavor them (although this is not always true). Low maps display the expansibility of zerg, and this is confirmed by the fact that on most maps in most games, zerg will FE vs toss or terran. On fastest, protoss and terran can actually mine faster than zerg (unless they pump drones like madmen, but I'll come to this later), and that automatically puts zerg at a disadvantage 1) Trust me, mass lings will never work versus a half decent opponent. Money comes in very fast on fastest and protoss will have 4-5 gates up with continuous zealot pump in no time. Terran will start massing rax and put up bunkers right away. 2) I'm pretty sure fastest players make vessels primarily to detect, not to irradiate. Fastest players tend not to have the hand speed or precision of a seasoned regular player, and they'll probably counter a defiler supported army with mass mech. 3) By the time you get thirty mutas and a queen, any half decent fastest player will have thirty trillion cannons/turrets around his nexus/cc. They will only skip this if they're playing pub. If you guys meet in a channel or something and set up a game, he's going to play safe. I think its foolish to assume that such strategies havent been tried and tested by fastest players. I'm dead sure they've tried pretty much experimented with every possible way to attack workers and take out the nexus/cc. Whats more, they're ALWAYS ready for it, because its the single most crippling (actually game ending) strategy. Ok, this is my take on zerg on fastest: 1) In a 1on1, its possible that the zerg can sunken up, mass hatcheries, pump drones, keep sunkening, get hive tech, mass to 200/200 and break out. The downside of this is that if your enemy figures this out, he himself will be maxed out by the time you break out PLUS will have 30 gates at his main and 30 at another main. Also, you'll be breaking out through a choke, and he'll be fighting through a wider center, giving him a tremendous advantage. Doom drops could work here though. I dont think a zerg can play very aggressive in 1on1. If he fails to do major damage right at the start, its gg. 2) In team games turtling by the zerg means a 1v2/2v3 situation for his team. Playing aggressive again means they have to severely damage or take out one, else the zerg will become the achilles heel once everyone has sufficiently powered up (and thats very early on fastest). | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
Also, you should max reasonably quickly in fastest when you're playing 1;1. I don't remember the exact time, but I think it's something like 9-12 minutes? Your macro has to be extremely solid. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
Toss wont be sleeping while you tech to and mass hydra/lurk. He will pressure you with an ultra fast exponentially increasing zealot rush, and you will HAVE to sunken, even if you ling. I know you've played fastest so you've got to be aware of how quickly toss can mass zealots during early game. This will give time to the toss to tech and be ready for hydra/lurk with storm and obs. I dont see dual tech slowing him down because of the massive amount of minerals and gas available. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 11:14 Gandalf wrote: Well I concede you have far more experience on fastest than me, and that you're probably right, but this is my thinking: Toss wont be sleeping while you tech to and mass hydra/lurk. He will pressure you with an ultra fast exponentially increasing zealot rush, and you will HAVE to sunken, even if you ling. I know you've played fastest so you've got to be aware of how quickly toss can mass zealots during early game. This will give time to the toss to tech and be ready for hydra/lurk with storm and obs. I dont see dual tech slowing him down because of the massive amount of minerals and gas available. If you're playing zerg, you will almost always have to sunken every game anyway. That's a given. You should assume that he will try some sort of zeal rush, but if you have 4-5 sunkens placed next to your main, it will be hard to break through. You can actually go fast hydra/lurk in a number of different ways, the quickest of which is teching to liar after only one hatchery. I can almost guarantee that the z can get hydra/lurk before the toss gets storm/obs, unless for some reason he's teching extremely quickly as well. For an average game, the z will probably have hydra/lurk before the p starts his templar archive and/or observatory bay, which allows for plenty of time for harassment using lurks. This is because the p will normally get at least 4-6 gateways along with a nex before teching (which allows him to get his zeals at the beginning). | ||
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MarcX
Netherlands772 Posts
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 11:54 MarcX wrote: Jokes aside, a timing study of fastest-map strategy can actually be quite interesting. It would. However, there is just as much time involved in making it for a regular study, and I simply don't have the time nor motivation to do it. | ||
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il0seonpurpose
Korea (South)5638 Posts
but u just go mass gateways with zealots and its gg, especially in begining of game | ||
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
An insanely effective strategy for zerg midgame is defiler lurk drops on a toss or terran player. If you can swarm effectively you are basically guaranteed to take out their main. edit: Also an extremely fast rush to storm drops, in a 1v1, is devestating. If you defend well from the initial zealot rush, or your opponent went a nexus/forge first build, you can basically cripple him. Either straight tech to it or nexus first, with cannons for insurance, to tech. | ||
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IIICodeIIIIIII
China1101 Posts
i also like taking an expo or 2 just so i have extra room to build factories. I like it when i'm continuously attacking but my pop limit doesn't go below 180 or so. Edit: i was just messing around the other day so i decided to play a fastest map. TvP (me T). based on what the other dude was doing, I actually managed to make 3 cc. got to 200 before he was at 150. double comsat = maphack. | ||
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
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IIICodeIIIIIII
China1101 Posts
On January 09 2007 14:38 BalloonFight wrote: TvP on this map is also a pain in the ass because a toss can make 12 gateways easily in a hidden place on the map. If you somehow have a decent push on a toss with tanks/vult/gol/turrets, make SURE you send scvs out to turret up the map. If you let the toss get out with a shuttle and build a ridiculous amount of gateways in another part of the map, its gg. uh.. no it's not.. that's called "bm, just leave." | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
Hallucinate an arb, send a real one in and stasis his workers. All the probes would have to unstack when stasised and would block the mineral line. | ||
GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
On January 09 2007 18:15 GrandInquisitor wrote: Here's the question. Y'all are talking about building extra CC/hatch/nexus for more workers - how many more? Are you basically pumping workers all the time until you max? Do you ever stop? How many patches are there anyway? You strive to get your main Nexus/CC and 2 others placed above your main. That way you can get 3 workers at a time, for each gas really fast, and if you do get stormed, or lurker dropped, or tank dropped, and you lose all of your workers, you can pump out pretty fast. Obviously you need to protect your back behind the mineral line REALLY well. I haven't played fastest in a long while, but I used to try to keep an arbiter on my nexus at all times.. if I saw an enemy coming to storm me or whatever, I'd just statis my workers to keep them safe. Usually you tend to pump for a LONG time, usually until you are maxed. 3-4 on gas (depending on if your build screwed your gas up). When you start to get a LOT of minerals, and a lot of minerals on fastest is generally like 6k or so, then you can suicide some probes to free up population. Not completely sure how many minerals there were, but I believe there are 50 or so. | ||
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Pressure
7326 Posts
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
EDIT: Hell, can someone just post some gosu FMP reps? I'm really getting interested in this now =) | ||
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
On January 09 2007 11:09 davidgurt wrote: Also, you should max reasonably quickly in fastest when you're playing 1;1. I don't remember the exact time, but I think it's something like 9-12 minutes? Your macro has to be extremely solid. It takes me about 12 minutes with initially using units and attacking/teching/defending... although I know you can go much faster if you nexus first or whatever And yes. I always take all my gas... since most likely you'll have surplus minerals. It's usually 50 patches to 8 geysers, with the patches being right next to your main building... so the actual ratio is probably closer to 10:1 if you max your resources. I said zerg was fun to play... but it's certainly not the best or easiest, zealot rushes kill over 50% of zergs, the timing for building drones/hatches/sunkens to defend is much harder than the timing for gateway/zealots. But once you get to 20 something hatches... your economy is usually superior as well and recovers extremely quickly even if you do get stormed dropped, etc. | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
Or even super noob ones that are funny | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Also, when? How early on do you get your first, and then when do you max out on all the gasses? | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 19:05 EscPlan9 wrote: I really want to see some gosu FMP replays :D Or even super noob ones that are funny I found some reps of me playing about a year or so ago, but that wasn't when I was at my prime. I can still upload them somewhere if anyone's interested in watching them. My APM was only around 170-180 on average, and when I picked up fastest again for a short while (about a week or so), my APM rose to about 250 average. On January 09 2007 19:08 GrandInquisitor wrote: You get all of your gas? Hm. Also, when? How early on do you get your first, and then when do you max out on all the gasses? For p, I get my first gas when I have at least 4-6 gateways and my first nex already. And yes, by the 20-minute mark, you'll definitely need all of your gas to keep your macro up. In fact, I end up sending 4 workers to half of my assimilators around that point because my mineral intake rate is much faster. | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
On January 09 2007 19:28 davidgurt wrote: I found some reps of me playing about a year or so ago, but that wasn't when I was at my prime. I can still upload them somewhere if anyone's interested in watching them. My APM was only around 170-180 on average, and when I picked up fastest again for a short while (about a week or so), my APM rose to about 250 average. Defensive already? No one's going to judge you for playing fastest well or not. Grand and I have expressed interest in seeing these (and I'm sure others here would like it), so please post them when you get the chance! I really am interested in seeing some decent FMP play. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 19:31 EscPlan9 wrote: Defensive already? No one's going to judge you for playing fastest well or not. Grand and I have expressed interest in seeing these (and I'm sure others here would like it), so please post them when you get the chance! I really am interested in seeing some decent FMP play. It pains me when I watched my old replays again.  All right, I'll make a rep pack and post it here, but don't criticize my playing too much (I can honestly say that I played much better later, when I competed in tournaments). | ||
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evanthebouncy!
United States12796 Posts
On January 09 2007 09:03 Gandalf wrote: No man, zerg isn't fun at all on fastest (and its also the weakest). I played zerg ONCE on fastest, and it was such a pain in the ass I swore I never would again. The problem with zerg is laying down mass hatches and macroing off them. Mass gates for toss is very easy, and mass factories or rax are also easy, especially if the player is familiar with the diamond formation of placing factories for maximum efficiency over a given area. Mass hatches is fucking crazy. You have to wait for the larvae from adjacent hatcheries to move out of the way, so you can place hatches as close as possible. If you wait, you fall behind. The other option is to lay hatches out of range of the larvae, but that means a lower amount of hatches per unit space, and you fall behind. Macroing is worse. With 30 hatches, you have to select each hatchery and press SH or SM or w/e (as opposed to one button for toss and terran macro), and the chance that a hit wont register is greater. Basically, its a pain in the ass and its not fun at all >< That said it isn't impossible to win with zerg on your team. I think lurkers and late game spell tech are very strong on fastest. But its not like I have a lot of experience with this. ... you can double click the larvaes you know... The reason why zerg is hard I guess is the same reason as why close distance ZvP, ZvT is hard. It's hard to manage drone/army w/ fixed larvae very effectively. | ||
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AlexanderTheGreat
Canada521 Posts
if you see that the other team is powering for a rush then add as many cannons as u need to hold it while teching and adding gates. you must be constantly pumping probes off your 2 nex 3 if you want. you should be able to max on this map in like 10 minutes. make huge amounts of cannons, try and reaver/temp drop so u can rape their workers. also get 3 forges for ups right away. Basically you get so much money in this map that u can get everything at once. but dont get carriers. goons/zeal/dts/temp/arbs along with reaver drops. make sure u make a ridiculous amount of cannons. when your not making units your making cannons. the faster u can max the map the less units your opponents will have. cannon rushes can be good too since 99.9% of the players are noobs. If you cant kill them with just your units of protoss then mc your ally zerg first and if not then settle for terran. you want to stay away from air in this map because A it builds too slow and B it gets pwned too ez by mass storms or golies etc. A nice 36 guardian attack can tear shit up tho. Ah this map was funny playing stoned or drunk after a night of partying but still pwning it up. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
davidgurt fmp rep pack: click here. Watching some of my old replays really made me sad. You can watch them to get a basic idea of how fastest is played, but please don't criticize how I play in any of those games. My APM was only around 160 most of the time; my builds were inconsistent and poorly executed; and this was before I really learned how to play (thanks to a month or so of playing low ). In addition, the replays range from more than a year ago to approximately last summer. Needless to say, I've improved a lot since. Also, for anyone who wants to know just how "good" I claim I am, I can elaborate on that. I personally believe that I was one of the top ten players on the West bnet server for at least a month, after I began playing low and developed a real sense for the game. My APM jumped from 160 to 250, and I definitely learned a lot in terms of overall gameplay. I competed in vgtour for only one season, beating the #2 ranked 1;1 player in a bo3, but did not play too actively in it. I also participated in numerous clan battles and met a ridiculously large number of people who played fastest, many of which I could recall if I happened to play them in a later game. The maps I've played on, beginning 8-9 years ago, were bgh -> low -> zero clutter -> fastest -> low, in that order. I began playing zero clutter (aka zc) in channel clash and then continued by playing fastest in channel bravo, where I met powerhouse (apparently he played in WCG at the time as well), cloudxx2, z-unit, hornyflip, crimson)s(hadow, sod-warrior, guyabovemesucks, crazy-vegeto, vincent_guapo, and many more. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On January 09 2007 00:34 Gandalf wrote: Nexus first to pump probes of course. In team games you'll need to forge and cannon up, but in 1on1 you might be able to skip it if your opponent is going nexus first too. And I see this thread closing in 5..4..3..2..1.. 0.. BOOM GG | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
BTW, I'm still quite a noob. I'm not going to be judging you. My highest average APM was 122, and that was with Terran too. | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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Monoxide
Canada1190 Posts
Protoss: Mass Dragoons 3-3-3 upgraded of course with a couple of temps (like gg everytime) if hes being a bitch and building cannons everywhere, use reavers. Zerg: Mass Hydras or Guards and Devour. (3-3 Upgrade) (they see it and call GG) Terran: Seige tank push with wraiths or battlecruisers (gg) ya... if u come up with anything pm me | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 09 2007 21:23 Monoxide wrote: lol heres how i see it: Protoss: Mass Dragoons 3-3-3 upgraded of course with a couple of temps (like gg everytime) if hes being a bitch and building cannons everywhere, use reavers. Zerg: Mass Hydras or Guards and Devour. (3-3 Upgrade) (they see it and call GG) Terran: Seige tank push with wraiths or battlecruisers (gg) ya... if u come up with anything pm me It's a little bit more work than just that. | ||
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AlexanderTheGreat
Canada521 Posts
On January 09 2007 21:23 Monoxide wrote: lol heres how i see it: Protoss: Mass Dragoons 3-3-3 upgraded of course with a couple of temps (like gg everytime) if hes being a bitch and building cannons everywhere, use reavers. Zerg: Mass Hydras or Guards and Devour. (3-3 Upgrade) (they see it and call GG) Terran: Seige tank push with wraiths or battlecruisers (gg) ya... if u come up with anything pm me this may work vs the average first day noob but vs anyone with low-decent skill/understaning of the game let alone the map will rape all of these unit combos every time. | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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Arcanis_Li
United States37 Posts
On January 09 2007 21:39 EscPlan9 wrote: What counters mass siege tanks with air support and detection? I'm a noob so maybe thats why the answer isn't clear to me. Try mass air. If you are fast enough, you can also include spells | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
On January 09 2007 22:05 EscPlan9 wrote: Say you're protoss. He has many siege tanks, some detection (turrets, comsats, sci vessels, whatever), and wraiths. What do you do? Scouts/Carriers/Corsairs? He can comsat (or otherwise detect your observers), take out your observers, cloak his wraiths, and kill any of your air units easily. How are you going to get templars near his siege tanks when his air support will prevent drops and you obviously can't walk into the tanks? I'm thinking you'd have to do something like hallucinate arbiters (a LOT of hallucinations), send them in, then send in some real arbiters, recall a massive army of zlots/goons/archons and hope for the best. If he has that many siege tanks, he can only have so many air units. Spend all your money on carriers and obs. | ||
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
On January 09 2007 22:05 EscPlan9 wrote: Say you're protoss. He has many siege tanks, some detection (turrets, comsats, sci vessels, whatever), and wraiths. What do you do? Scouts/Carriers/Corsairs? He can comsat (or otherwise detect your observers), take out your observers, cloak his wraiths, and kill any of your air units easily. How are you going to get templars near his siege tanks when his air support will prevent drops and you obviously can't walk into the tanks? I'm thinking you'd have to do something like hallucinate arbiters (a LOT of hallucinations), send them in, then send in some real arbiters, recall a massive army of zlots/goons/archons and hope for the best. I assure you, 99.9% of fastest players will not think of comsat + obs sniping, much less try to attempt it. I should think if he's at a choke, then stasis/recall + sair/disruption web will probably work. Otherwise continuous speedlots + storm from 36+ gates should be able to break his tank line if he's not at a choke | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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BalloonFight
United States2007 Posts
On January 09 2007 20:55 davidgurt wrote: I began playing zero clutter (aka zc) in channel clash and then continued by playing fastest in channel bravo, where I met powerhouse (apparently he played in WCG at the time as well), cloudxx2, z-unit, hornyflip, crimson)s(hadow, sod-warrior, guyabovemesucks, crazy-vegeto, vincent_guapo, and many more. Haha, I used to hang out in bravo a long time ago as well. What was your account name? I bet I'd recognize you . | ||
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RebelHeart
New Zealand722 Posts
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17727 Posts
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On January 09 2007 21:23 Monoxide wrote: lol heres how i see it: Protoss: Mass Dragoons 3-3-3 upgraded of course with a couple of temps (like gg everytime) if hes being a bitch and building cannons everywhere, use reavers. Zerg: Mass Hydras or Guards and Devour. (3-3 Upgrade) (they see it and call GG) Terran: Seige tank push with wraiths or battlecruisers (gg) ya... if u come up with anything pm me that's the way to play fastest! | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
In one of those PvP replays you guys were doing mass goon/reav/temp battle for 20 minutes straight. I had to turn off my sound and speed up to 16x to get through that. I just wanted to see how it'd end. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
ADMIN GODS, PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD T_T | ||
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paaltje
Netherlands359 Posts
On January 10 2007 05:15 Equinox_kr wrote: OH ... MY ... GOD. ADMIN GODS, PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD T_T Don't post oke ?  back to thread Mind control other race worker is very usefull after 15 mins , especially in pvt | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
 )Isn't Protoss probably the most imbalanced since they don't have economy problems? Storm to kill off their workers, since they're all stacked, Reavers if they are simply Cannoning bastards, and make 16-24 Gateways and flood, flood, flood. Yes, as much as I hate FPM, I do know something about it. | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
2 lurkers or a few firebats early can really hurt their economy if you sneak them in. i used to build barracks near their base and pump up marines and medics. | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
I've seen the Firebat trick done many, many times. I remember making Zealots to counter them (T_T) and all the other guy said was "BBQ" and killed off all my Probes. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 09 2007 21:25 davidgurt wrote: It's a little bit more work than just that. Contrary to popular belief, saying "gg" after the name of a strategy does not automatically make it viable. For example, "ZvT: mass 3-3 devourers gg", though it contains "gg", is not actually going to lead to a "gg", more like a "wtf is this guy doing, ah well, who cares" | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
On January 10 2007 05:28 Equinox_kr wrote: Heh, sorry paaltje. FPM brings back bad memories T_T (And that ban is just wrong )Isn't Protoss probably the most imbalanced since they don't have economy problems? Storm to kill off their workers, since they're all stacked, Reavers if they are simply Cannoning bastards, and make 16-24 Gateways and flood, flood, flood. Yes, as much as I hate FPM, I do know something about it. 16-24 gates? Try 50. | ||
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j0ehoe
United States2705 Posts
On January 10 2007 05:53 GrandInquisitor wrote: Contrary to popular belief, saying "gg" after the name of a strategy does not automatically make it viable. For example, "ZvT: mass 3-3 devourers gg", though it contains "gg", is not actually going to lead to a "gg", more like a "wtf is this guy doing, ah well, who cares" heheh play toss dude. they are the best in fpm, even if it is amazingly lame =[ | ||
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Haemonculus
United States6980 Posts
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
best thing to do is play bgh because it's fun+teaches u something,fastest is something u let your 5yr old nephew play when he comes to your house with his parents. anyways,best thing to do on fastest is to never go mass cannon+carriers,it is 2slow and in team games it is 2passive and puts your allies in danger. you can always go double/triple nexus and then just produce mass gates. cannon rush is pretty cool2. if u dont want to waste 2much time just dt rush the noobs or do as someone mentioned an early attack and micro him to death-cuz he probably doesn't know what micro is and his apm is 20. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 10 2007 05:53 GrandInquisitor wrote: Contrary to popular belief, saying "gg" after the name of a strategy does not automatically make it viable. For example, "ZvT: mass 3-3 devourers gg", though it contains "gg", is not actually going to lead to a "gg", more like a "wtf is this guy doing, ah well, who cares" Most of those were named about 8-12 months ago, before I really started learning how to play, so please don't criticize me simply because I added a "gg" to the end. On January 09 2007 21:39 EscPlan9 wrote: What counters mass siege tanks with air support and detection? I'm a noob so maybe thats why the answer isn't clear to me. If he already has that many siege tanks and he's simply containing you at your choke, you're already at a very big disadvantage. If you're playing p, you should be able to hold the center of the map. pvt on fastest resembles pvt on low by quite a bit, so imagine trying to counter 200/200 tanks/vults/gols. It's not a easy thing to do on low either, but that depends on how good you are with macroing goons/zeals/temps with perhaps arbiter/sair support. The same counter can be used on fastest. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 09 2007 14:47 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote: uh.. no it's not.. that's called "bm, just leave." What???? Why is building gates in another main bad manner? Its not like you're forbidding the terran from doing the same. If the terran has the toss contained and is pushing in, he's free to put down mass facs in another main. Also, unless he's a moron, he can scout the 6 empty mains, especially the ones adjacent to the toss main. It hardly takes any effort, and I dont think its bad manner at all. I mean, whats the toss supposed to do when he's contained, die? The choke is so narrow even a 200/200 toss army wont be able to take out a well set up and reasonably sized terran army. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 09 2007 22:05 EscPlan9 wrote: Say you're protoss. He has many siege tanks, some detection (turrets, comsats, sci vessels, whatever), and wraiths. What do you do? Scouts/Carriers/Corsairs? He can comsat (or otherwise detect your observers), take out your observers, cloak his wraiths, and kill any of your air units easily. How are you going to get templars near his siege tanks when his air support will prevent drops and you obviously can't walk into the tanks? I'm thinking you'd have to do something like hallucinate arbiters (a LOT of hallucinations), send them in, then send in some real arbiters, recall a massive army of zlots/goons/archons and hope for the best. When you have 30+ factories, macro takes a LOT more time as opposed to low money play. It also means macro becomes a bigger factor. Fastest players will NOT have the time to control their army really well during late game, and they're not that inclined to micro hard anyway. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 10 2007 09:05 Gandalf wrote: When you have 30+ factories, macro takes a LOT more time as opposed to low money play. It also means macro becomes a bigger factor. Fastest players will NOT have the time to control their army really well during late game, and they're not that inclined to micro hard anyway. Macro does take a lot more time, but when you've hit 250+ APM, it's amazing how much you can do. With that much APM, most of it is on macro, but you should be able to pump from all of your factories/gates in a matter of seconds, giving you enough time to micro. And yes, I agree. You should be scouting the other bases if he's building there, but most of the time, it won't matter because your own base is big enough already (unless your opponent has you choked). The reason I lost one of the games in my rep pack is because I had him down to only half his base (because of my initial push), then missed scouting his buildings next door by a mere centimeter (my zeal was positioned a bit too high). | ||
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EscPlan9
United States2777 Posts
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 10 2007 09:10 davidgurt wrote: Macro does take a lot more time, but when you've hit 250+ APM, it's amazing how much you can do. With that much APM, most of it is on macro, but you should be able to pump from all of your factories/gates in a matter of seconds, giving you enough time to micro. And yes, I agree. You should be scouting the other bases if he's building there, but most of the time, it won't matter because your own base is big enough already (unless your opponent has you choked). The reason I lost one of the games in my rep pack is because I had him down to only half his base (because of my initial push), then missed scouting his buildings next door by a mere centimeter (my zeal was positioned a bit too high). No matter HOW fast you macro, macroing in fastest WILL take more time than in low maps, and significantly so. A low map game will probably have players with 8-12 facs during late game (sometimes more, sometimes less), whereas a fastest player will have 30-40. If they are equally fast (although low players tend to be faster), the fastest player will need 3-4 times the time to macro. That automatically means the fastest player will have less time to micro. In low map games, the focus in any battle tends to be more on micro, because macro simply takes less time, and because less money and less factories/gates means a weaker ability to recover. The ratio between time spent on micro and macro is drastically altered in fastest. Theres a difference, and it gives the low player more time to micro. A direct conclusion of this is that since low players micro more per game, they are getting a greater amount of practice, and will eventually become better microers than fastest players. I'm not saying that you shouldnt micro late game in fastest. Or even that fastest players cant perform the aforementioned micro feats. But no matter how you look at it, its obvious that late game micro, at least, wont be as good as what you'd find in low games. | ||
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IIICodeIIIIIII
China1101 Posts
On January 10 2007 09:01 Gandalf wrote: What???? Why is building gates in another main bad manner? Its not like you're forbidding the terran from doing the same. If the terran has the toss contained and is pushing in, he's free to put down mass facs in another main. Also, unless he's a moron, he can scout the 6 empty mains, especially the ones adjacent to the toss main. It hardly takes any effort, and I dont think its bad manner at all. I mean, whats the toss supposed to do when he's contained, die? The choke is so narrow even a 200/200 toss army wont be able to take out a well set up and reasonably sized terran army. so you're saying that if i'm at 200/200, my push destroys the entire protoss base, it's pretty much "gg" THEY will come back and BEAT ME if i accidentally let 1 probe+shuttle get through because that probe will make "12" (by 12 i assume you mean like, 60) gateways and perform a miraculous comeback from 1 vs 200? that may work vs noobs, but i've played games where i've pretty much beat the other person, and hte other person has a fucking probe+shuttle flying around building pylons and gateways. it's fucking stupid. so ya, if your base gets taken out and you have a probe and 50,000 minerals, man, just leave, don't be flying it around trying to make a comeback. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 10 2007 09:49 Gandalf wrote: No matter HOW fast you macro, macroing in fastest WILL take more time than in low maps, and significantly so. A low map game will probably have players with 8-12 facs during late game (sometimes more, sometimes less), whereas a fastest player will have 30-40. If they are equally fast (although low players tend to be faster), the fastest player will need 3-4 times the time to macro. That automatically means the fastest player will have less time to micro. In low map games, the focus in any battle tends to be more on micro, because macro simply takes less time, and because less money and less factories/gates means a weaker ability to recover. The ratio between time spent on micro and macro is drastically altered in fastest. Theres a difference, and it gives the low player more time to micro. A direct conclusion of this is that since low players micro more per game, they are getting a greater amount of practice, and will eventually become better microers than fastest players. I'm not saying that you shouldnt micro late game in fastest. Or even that fastest players cant perform the aforementioned micro feats. But no matter how you look at it, its obvious that late game micro, at least, wont be as good as what you'd find in low games. Yes, I completely agree that low players are generally better microers than fastest players and that late game micro is better in low games, but I think you have several flaws in your argument. The biggest one of all is that you rarely have 30-40 gateways. I typically only have 16-20 before maxing out, which is half of the 30-40 you claim. In addition, with a decently high APM of 250+, it will only take a few more seconds to pump out of those extra 8-10 gateways. For me, pumping from my 16 gateways only takes 5-6 seconds, as opposed to the usual 3-4 seconds on low. Speaking of reps, I played one game way back when against a Korean fastest clan called Mul. It was a 3;3 game, and since the people I played with weren't exceptionally good back then, we got killed. But anyway, that game was particularly interesting because they had 200 APM and were spending much more time on micro (hotkeying mutas with overlords, microing mm, goons, etc.). | ||
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Chobo_Abe
United States168 Posts
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 10 2007 09:49 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote: so you're saying that if i'm at 200/200, my push destroys the entire protoss base, it's pretty much "gg" THEY will come back and BEAT ME if i accidentally let 1 probe+shuttle get through because that probe will make "12" (by 12 i assume you mean like, 60) gateways and perform a miraculous comeback from 1 vs 200? that may work vs noobs, but i've played games where i've pretty much beat the other person, and hte other person has a fucking probe+shuttle flying around building pylons and gateways. it's fucking stupid. so ya, if your base gets taken out and you have a probe and 50,000 minerals, man, just leave, don't be flying it around trying to make a comeback. Ummm nope, thats not what I said. First, you need to realize that my post was made simply to disagree with the opinion that building in other mains is bad manner and should not be allowed. Secondly, you have majorly exaggerated my example. I dont understand how you could POSSIBLY conclude I said "they WILL come back and BEAT YOU". No, of course not. But when a protoss is boxed into his base and cant break out head on, he's got to look for other avenues, right? I mean sitting in your base and waiting for the terran to push in means you're going to lose 100%. If you're smart, you'll shuttle out a probe not when you're DEAD, but when you sense the terran is beginning to gain map control. That way, by the time the terran pushes in, you'll already have 20 gates set up in another main. Remember, money comes in extremely fast on fastest, and once you max out, it reaches galactic numbers. A total dumbass will stay in his base waiting to die once terran has map control. A smart toss will realize the impending push, and will have 20-30 gates up in another main to help flank the terran by the time the terran starts pushing in. Similarly, only a complete moron would not scout other mains if he has the toss boxed in. It takes 1-2 scvs and no effort. Better still, he can send out scvs once he controls the center, and build a turret/depot in the empty mains to keep a constant look. And if you destroy the toss base, and he shuttles out a probe AFTER that, and manages to come back, you not only deserve to lose, you deserve to be ejected from the starcraft community. It will be the mother of all comebacks Flying around with a probe making pylons is altogether a different issue, and I dont know why you're insinuating I advocated that. I did not. I've played versus such people, and I know its irritating and time wasting, and I would never, ever support it. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
"And yes, I agree. You should be scouting the other bases if he's building there, but most of the time, it won't matter because your own base is big enough already (unless your opponent has you choked). The reason I lost one of the games in my rep pack is because I had him down to only half his base (because of my initial push), then missed scouting his buildings next door by a mere centimeter (my zeal was positioned a bit too high)." You dont see him complaining even though he lost. And, if you read carefully, you will see the toss already had another base up by the time his main was half down. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 10 2007 10:11 Gandalf wrote: Also, davidgurt, who is obviously very experience and skilled on fastest, said: "And yes, I agree. You should be scouting the other bases if he's building there, but most of the time, it won't matter because your own base is big enough already (unless your opponent has you choked). The reason I lost one of the games in my rep pack is because I had him down to only half his base (because of my initial push), then missed scouting his buildings next door by a mere centimeter (my zeal was positioned a bit too high)." You dont see him complaining even though he lost. And, if you read carefully, you will see the toss already had another base up by the time his main was half down. I'm not sure if I'm following you. I agreed with what you said about building in another base if you're being contained. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 10 2007 10:01 davidgurt wrote: Yes, I completely agree that low players are generally better microers than fastest players and that late game micro is better in low games, but I think you have several flaws in your argument. The biggest one of all is that you rarely have 30-40 gateways. I typically only have 16-20 before maxing out, which is half of the 30-40 you claim. In addition, with a decently high APM of 250+, it will only take a few more seconds to pump out of those extra 8-10 gateways. For me, pumping from my 16 gateways only takes 5-6 seconds, as opposed to the usual 3-4 seconds on low. Speaking of reps, I played one game way back when against a Korean fastest clan called Mul. It was a 3;3 game, and since the people I played with weren't exceptionally good back then, we got killed. But anyway, that game was particularly interesting because they had 200 APM and were spending much more time on micro (hotkeying mutas with overlords, microing mm, goons, etc.). Hey, thanks for correcting me on the number of gates/facs. But I would think its smart to lay down more facs/gates once you've maxed up, just to improve your recovering ability. What do you think about this? Also, you said "several flaws" you nasty person, and you pointed out only two. And one of them isnt really a flaw, its pretty much what I said! So basically one flaw became several, you evil doer. Decent low players wont take more than 2-3 seconds to macro, max. And a decent fastest player like yourself takes 5-6 seconds to macro, as you yourself have pointed out. Thats double the time, and in my opinion its very significant. Being away from your army for 5-6 seconds on a low map will more often than not mean you'll take far more losses than you would have otherwise. | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On January 10 2007 10:14 davidgurt wrote: I'm not sure if I'm following you. I agreed with what you said about building in another base if you're being contained. Oh, I know we agreed on this issue. This quote is for the erudition of Code, who apparently lost to someone who had 50,000 minerals and one probe in a shuttle while he was maxed out. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 10 2007 08:36 davidgurt wrote: Most of those were named about 8-12 months ago, before I really started learning how to play, so please don't criticize me simply because I added a "gg" to the end. I wasn't making fun of you - I was making fun of Monoxide. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
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azndsh
United States4447 Posts
Of course, if there are periods of time where you are maxed out... then I'd say add as many gates and/or cannons as long as your money isn't going down, 50 gates isn't uncommon =P Although some times its just a macro war where both sides continuously stream troops at each other with supply close to being maxed out at all times (mass hydras vs mass goons, for example) | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Dendra
Croatia801 Posts
On January 10 2007 09:10 davidgurt wrote: Macro does take a lot more time, but when you've hit 250+ APM, it's amazing how much you can do. With that much APM, most of it is on macro, but you should be able to pump from all of your factories/gates in a matter of seconds, giving you enough time to micro. And yes, I agree. You should be scouting the other bases if he's building there, but most of the time, it won't matter because your own base is big enough already (unless your opponent has you choked). The reason I lost one of the games in my rep pack is because I had him down to only half his base (because of my initial push), then missed scouting his buildings next door by a mere centimeter (my zeal was positioned a bit too high). rofl if u think u get 250apm just macroing then u'r just a noob spammer u don't need apm over 180 to have good macro(many best non-kor gamers have apm 150 and they "catch it all" by using their brains instead of...well, empty heads :D). it's easy to macro on fastest maps because u focus only on macro unlike in low maps where you have to be at several places at same time+u must think strategically alot which also takes time-i'd bet 99%of fastest maps players wouldn't be capable of playing low money map,keeping their minerals below 500,microing units,watching the map,planning where to attack and what to attack,thinking how to adapt to the situation,etc. because they are capable of doing one thing at a time-they can't produce units,send army to attack,produce more units and return back to the army-because they will not think of that,they will focus on their army and pile up 4k minerals.playing fastest maps because u like bw is ok,but please don't make "strategies" or even call someone a "gosu" that plays fastest maps,that's hillarious. money maps are just for fun,u produce mass units and a+move,that's all-all u gotta do is figure out how to produce more units than your enemy. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 10 2007 11:25 Dendra wrote: rofl if u think u get 250apm just macroing then u'r just a noob spammer u don't need apm over 180 to have good macro(many best non-kor gamers have apm 150 and they "catch it all" by using their brains instead of...well, empty heads :D). it's easy to macro on fastest maps because u focus only on macro unlike in low maps where you have to be at several places at same time+u must think strategically alot which also takes time-i'd bet 99%of fastest maps players wouldn't be capable of playing low money map,keeping their minerals below 500,microing units,watching the map,planning where to attack and what to attack,thinking how to adapt to the situation,etc. because they are capable of doing one thing at a time-they can't produce units,send army to attack,produce more units and return back to the army-because they will not think of that,they will focus on their army and pile up 4k minerals.playing fastest maps because u like bw is ok,but please don't make "strategies" or even call someone a "gosu" that plays fastest maps,that's hillarious. money maps are just for fun,u produce mass units and a+move,that's all-all u gotta do is figure out how to produce more units than your enemy. | ||
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j0ehoe
United States2705 Posts
toss si the king of fpm. the one flaw toss has is that their units are strong but so fucking expensive. with no cost, toss rocks. storm or reaver the $$, mc and create another base. you can do everything with toss. | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 10 2007 10:40 GrandInquisitor wrote: So how many gates/facs/hatches are we looking at, late game? Obviously you can max out with a relatively low number, but I would imagine that for recovery you want to have 30+ gates to instanteously replace 60+ supply. If ForU can make 50 gates in a low money map vs NaDa...=P I usually only need 16 to max out within 9-10 minutes, but I would say that the max you would get in a game (assuming it's more than 20-25 minutes) is around 26 at the very most. By that time, you're probably getting some air, whether it's in the form of carriers, sairs, or arbiters, so you'll only be pumping out of maybe 16-20 of those. For z, I usually only need 12 hatcheries, with a max of maybe 18. On January 10 2007 10:16 Gandalf wrote: Oh, I know we agreed on this issue. This quote is for the erudition of Code, who apparently lost to someone who had 50,000 minerals and one probe in a shuttle while he was maxed out. Sorry about that. I think I misinterpreted what you said because I thought you were addressing something else other than Code's comment. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
On January 09 2007 02:09 Gandalf wrote: Fastest players aren't completely stupid you know. They're well aware of the fact that stacked workers are very vulnerable to attacks of bats, tanks, reavers, templars, lurkers etc, and they (at least semi decent ones) always prepare for it. By the time you get a shuttle with a couple of stormers, your opponent will have enough cannons around his nexus to take it down before you can storm. That doesnt meant it'll never work though. Late game you can hallucinate your shuttle and help it get through. Or send a few sairs with it etc etc you get the idea. A fun strat I've tried for shits and giggles a couple of times is as such: Choose terran. Send the first scv you build to scout your enemy. Once you find him, start constructing an ebay in a hidden part of his main. Once done, float it over his minerals and cover them completely. This will prevent him from sending new workers to mine while you aren't hindered in this respect, thus giving you a huge monetary advantage. You can continue building ebays and floating them over his minerals. He'll be forced to get cannons/goons, hydra/spore or marines to get rid of them. Proxy rax with bat rush to his probes is fun too. There wont be too many cannons by that time (and sometimes none), but you can focus fire and all the probes on at least one side of the mineral patch. Lol, way to think outside the box, thats a great idea. Did you think of it? I'm gonna go try that right now. | ||
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Locked
United States4182 Posts
On January 10 2007 12:32 j0ehoe wrote: you stacked mappers arent shiet. come see me on blue night seoul. OLD SCHOOL. you dont even know. YOU DONT EVEN FUCKIN KNOW SON!@#@!#@! ahah that made me smile | ||
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Equinox_kr
United States7395 Posts
On January 10 2007 10:40 GrandInquisitor wrote: So how many gates/facs/hatches are we looking at, late game? Obviously you can max out with a relatively low number, but I would imagine that for recovery you want to have 30+ gates to instanteously replace 60+ supply. If ForU can make 50 gates in a low money map vs NaDa...=P We're talking about a lot of Gateways. I play Protoss only on FPMs (but that was a year ago) but I made roughly 32 Gateways to pump out units. Damn, when did fOru do that? O_O | ||
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davidgurt
United States1355 Posts
On January 12 2007 11:34 Equinox_kr wrote: We're talking about a lot of Gateways. I play Protoss only on FPMs (but that was a year ago) but I made roughly 32 Gateways to pump out units. Damn, when did fOru do that? O_O He didn't. | ||
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DarK]N[exuS
China1441 Posts
On January 10 2007 12:32 j0ehoe wrote: you stacked mappers arent shiet. come see me on blue night seoul. OLD SCHOOL. you dont even know. YOU DONT EVEN FUCKIN KNOW SON!@#@!#@! toss si the king of fpm. the one flaw toss has is that their units are strong but so fucking expensive. with no cost, toss rocks. storm or reaver the $$, mc and create another base. you can do everything with toss. orly? Pretty sure all the races rock with no costs On January 12 2007 11:34 Equinox_kr wrote: We're talking about a lot of Gateways. I play Protoss only on FPMs (but that was a year ago) but I made roughly 32 Gateways to pump out units. Damn, when did fOru do that? O_O Damn I can't believe I can't remember the game...but Foru made 50 gates, Nada has what, 6 factories? Nada wins because Foru just massacres his own units repeatedly. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
What do you mean? http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=25917 19) Foru's 50 gateways. It was back when Foru was gaining fame as a vs Terran specialist. During a game with Nada he continously pressures him and ends up having like 5 expos to 1. He then builds a total of 50 gateways and pumps goons but does newbie stuff and literally melts them while fighting with tanks and Nada wins. But Foru's 50 gateways is still in the guiness book of records as the most gateways in a game. Rep: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/information/4183/Nada_vs_Foru_50_gates_game.html | ||
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rest_less
Germany142 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
EVERYTHING revolves around the late game. That means 3-3-3 units with mucho upgrades and reserach and tech. CARRIERSSSSSSSSSSSSSsssssssssssssss | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
On January 10 2007 12:32 j0ehoe wrote: you stacked mappers arent shiet. come see me on blue night seoul. OLD SCHOOL. you dont even know. YOU DONT EVEN FUCKIN KNOW SON!@#@!#@! toss si the king of fpm. the one flaw toss has is that their units are strong but so fucking expensive. with no cost, toss rocks. storm or reaver the $$, mc and create another base. you can do everything with toss. 1:1 Girl Clan Ice Hunters GOGOGO? Any day~ PM | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 12 2007 14:24 rest_less wrote: play low maps. it is much more fun and much more satisfying if you won against your opponent on that maps! gosh, sorry, I was under the mistaken impresion that I got to decide what I thought was fun and satisfying. I bow to your undoubtedly superior judgment | ||
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MarcX
Netherlands772 Posts
Money mapping is only more fun if you play for nothing more than to kill time. | ||
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On January 13 2007 10:53 MarcX wrote: ...almost every money-mapper has agreed that regular is a richer game if you are willing to spend the time to invest in it... Honestly, where did you get this? It happens to align with my personal belief, and probably that of yours - but don't tell you me you've gone and polled every single money-mapper out there, or even every single person that's played money maps and regular. A handful of hearsay does not a statistic make. | ||
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[jOyO]
United States920 Posts
terran is 00ber mad s1ck onm teh fast3st maps | ||
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Yogurt
United States4258 Posts
gg | ||
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[jOyO]
United States920 Posts
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CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11583 Posts
On January 14 2007 15:25 [jOyO] wrote: toss is unfair for obvious reasons. zvp is joke and just zlot rush or reaver drop terran. 30 gates nonstop is incredibly cheap and thats the main reason fpm sucks. its imba but real fun. i would like to see progamers play a game on a fastest map. would be a pretty sweet game. cheater terran would win. | ||
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crazie-penguin
United States1253 Posts
On January 14 2007 15:25 [jOyO] wrote: toss is unfair for obvious reasons. zvp is joke and just zlot rush or reaver drop terran. 30 gates nonstop is incredibly cheap and thats the main reason fpm sucks. its imba but real fun. i would like to see progamers play a game on a fastest map. would be a pretty sweet game. Speaking of progames on these maps, wonder how july would harass them xD | ||
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Wonders
Australia753 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Z = Champs on Fastest. There is no other equal. 50 hatcheries, and the ability to re-make all your drones in seconds makes them very very powerful. Unless some bizarre and kinky overlord cap by sairs or valks rape you....... you should be fine. | ||
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MarcX
Netherlands772 Posts
When to build drones and additional hatcheries and when to build fighting stuff or tech is just as hard a choice as on normal maps, and possibly harder. | ||
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j0ehoe
United States2705 Posts
On January 12 2007 15:08 SuperJongMan wrote: 1:1 Girl Clan Ice Hunters GOGOGO? Any day~ PM you dont know how happy i was on sunday afternoon when i saw a blue night in seoul hosted :O | ||
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