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[G] Build Orders and Strategies by Scan - Page 4

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Shinrei
Profile Joined February 2007
United States241 Posts
July 28 2015 23:28 GMT
#61
Thanks Scan. You're the man.
=^.^=
dr0pship
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada520 Posts
July 30 2015 00:28 GMT
#62
THANK YOUUU
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-21 08:29:32
August 16 2015 10:14 GMT
#63
Double posted
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
August 17 2015 06:34 GMT
#64
Much appreciated scan. Would love to hear some of the more advanced thoughts that go on in high level tvz games.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
August 21 2015 07:37 GMT
#65
I'm thinking to update some of textbook/classic ZvT(Zerg FPV) build order. I am also thinking about grouping quickly.
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-27 20:53:39
August 27 2015 20:21 GMT
#66
Updated: Mutalisk "M" Micro Guide and Patrol Trick.
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
August 27 2015 21:46 GMT
#67
Updated: ZvT Optimized 3 Hatchery Opening (2015)
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
J-dawg
Profile Joined July 2015
United States42 Posts
August 28 2015 02:25 GMT
#68
Thank you for updating your thread LaStScan with new strategy tips!
Thank God for true love and soulmates!!! :)
Atom[Bomb]
Profile Joined July 2015
Sweden108 Posts
August 28 2015 08:37 GMT
#69
Isn't it too greedy to go 12 hatch -> 13 pool?

How do you know it's safe to build the spawning pool so late?
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-28 16:27:39
August 28 2015 09:44 GMT
#70
On August 28 2015 17:37 Atom[Bomb] wrote:
Isn't it too greedy to go 12 hatch -> 13 pool?

How do you know it's safe to build the spawning pool so late?


As long as it's not center 2 Barracks rush, you can stop ANYTHING. Also, it is not late. About 5 seconds(Assumption) slow compare to 11 Spawning pool.
If the game flow is all safe plays, your 3rd hatchery and gas timing are faster than the original 3 Hatchery Opening.
The original build order starts the gas at 2:56~58. The newest and optimized 3 Hatchery Opening can start the gas at 2:50~52.

Back to your question. Even if you are going 11 Spawning Pool, you will be having a huge difficulty of fighting against center 2 Barracks rush. That's something you must scout with your drone.

8 Barracks Bunker rush = have 12 Drones out to the field, produce drones until the supply number 15.
Since you do not start 3rd hatchery, you have 12 Drones are fighting against 2~3 marines + # of SCVs and 3 drones are mining mineral with 250++ Mineral in your pocket.
12 Drones will most likely to win the fight of Bunker rush nowadays.
That's why the Terran players usually get only 3 SCVs with their Marines to snipe some Drones.
Tip: losing more than 5 Drones will put you behind.

Think of a concept of PvZ where Protoss plays 2 Gateways wall and then hard core Zealots push with 4 Probes. From the Protoss's PoV, he continues to produce Zealots and Probes. Zerg has to decide from every single Larva so Zerg loses his time to fill up his # of workers to mine Minerals.
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
Atom[Bomb]
Profile Joined July 2015
Sweden108 Posts
August 28 2015 10:39 GMT
#71
On August 28 2015 18:44 LaStScan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2015 17:37 Atom[Bomb] wrote:
Isn't it too greedy to go 12 hatch -> 13 pool?

How do you know it's safe to build the spawning pool so late?


As long as it's not center 2 Barracks rush, you can stop ANYTHING. Also, it is not late. About 5 seconds(Assumption) slow compare to 11 Spawning pool.
If the game flow is all safe plays, your 3rd hatchery and gas timing are faster than the original 3 Hatchery Opening.
The original build order starts the gas at 2:56~58. The newest and optimized 3 Hatchery Opening can start the gas at 2:50~52.

Back to your question. Even if you are going 11 Spawning Pool, you will be having a huge difficulty of fighting against center 2 Barracks rush. That's something you must scout with your drone.

8 Barracks Bunker rush = have 12 Drones out to the field, produce drones until the supply number 15.
Since you do not start 3rd hatchery, you have 12 Drones are fighting against 2~3 marines + # of SCVs and 3 drones are mining mineral with 250++ Mineral in your pocket.
12 Drones will most likely to win the fight of Bunker rush nowadays.
That's why the Terran players usually get only 3 SCVs with their Marines to snipe some Drones.
Tip: losing more than 5 Drones will put you into behind.

Think of a concept of PvZ where Protoss plays 2 Gateways wall and then hard core Zealots push with 4 Probes. From the Protoss's PoV, he continues to produce Zealots and Probes. Zerg has to decide from every single Larva so Zerg loses his time to fill up his # of workers to mine Minerals.


Thank you for your insightful response!
Malkiyah
Profile Joined April 2012
Russian Federation92 Posts
August 28 2015 21:31 GMT
#72
How to patrol trick? I tried with shift but it doesn't work.
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
August 29 2015 05:16 GMT
#73
On August 29 2015 06:31 Malkiyah wrote:
How to patrol trick? I tried with shift but it doesn't work.


First click normal, then use shift + patrol to first new location, shift + patrol to second new location, shift + patrol to third new location.

This has worked for me.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
Malkiyah
Profile Joined April 2012
Russian Federation92 Posts
August 29 2015 08:19 GMT
#74
On August 29 2015 14:16 B-royal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2015 06:31 Malkiyah wrote:
How to patrol trick? I tried with shift but it doesn't work.


First click normal, then use shift + patrol to first new location, shift + patrol to second new location, shift + patrol to third new location.

This has worked for me.

Thanks. It works.
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
August 29 2015 11:00 GMT
#75
Sorry. I did not add the step of shift patrol trick. I will update that later.
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
August 29 2015 22:15 GMT
#76
I feel like the tvz opening is week to the push the terran did the game you played. His micro was off but I bet if he micro'd well and brought 2 scv you would take a lot of damage. Do you have issues with these sorts of reactions ever?
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-30 08:07:32
August 30 2015 07:55 GMT
#77
On August 30 2015 07:15 puppykiller wrote:
I feel like the tvz opening is week to the push the terran did the game you played. His micro was off but I bet if he micro'd well and brought 2 scv you would take a lot of damage. Do you have issues with these sorts of reactions ever?


Why do you think the TvZ opening is weak of that timing?
If you start making 6 zerglings at supply 16, You will have 6 zerglings against 4~5 Marines(depends on location).
Also, why would Terran bring 2 SCVs for that? You know as well that Terran went 1 Barracks EXP.
Here's something I want you to think. Would you bring 2 Drones to attack Forge EXP with your 6 zerglings?
If so, it will delay Zerg's ALL build order timing. Am I wrong? This applies to ANY races...

Here are some couple reasons why someone created late mech switch and stopped playing SK Terran as much as before.
1) Zerg does not waste his units to crush Terran's army before Hive.
2) Even the defiler comes out, Zerg only uses it to defend and delay Terran's 3rd.
3) Zerg's are expanding very fast(4th and 5th gas).
4) Zerg uses not a lot of gas to defend Terran's SK style
5) Zerg saves a lot of gas for Ultralisks.[/QUOTE]

※Note: I personally do not like to answer a question something related with "What if ~~" because that's something you must have to figure out by yourself and change your build order or make additional units.
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-08-30 08:04:27
August 30 2015 08:03 GMT
#78
Double posted
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
Myujinsan
Profile Joined November 2008
France258 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-05 20:38:44
August 31 2015 07:09 GMT
#79
Thx for the work Scan, i hope u'll continue !!

Never ever heard of that shift patrol trick, really awesome ! And same as all, if you can add some more insight from pro knowledge that would be awesome !

Brb muta micro practice =D
sabas123
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands3122 Posts
September 12 2015 17:27 GMT
#80
Could you do a video or post about general rule of thumb timings?

for instance a korean friend told me that in zvt, when you see that terran has 8 marines you should then start build your sunkens.
The harder it becomes, the more you should focus on the basics.
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