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sunk/lurk/spore

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
May 30 2006 02:19 GMT
#1
i was wondering since it's been badmouthed so recently and i was thinking about trying it recently, what are the counters to it so i feel a little less like a cheap bastard. i'm not sure i want to be abusing the supposedly unbeatable, somehow i doubt that everyone here will tell me it is though. what are all the counters and, it's not just as simple as expanding on a turtler who can't do much to attack you at the moment? why is it such a problem?
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Resonate
Profile Joined October 2002
United Kingdom8402 Posts
May 30 2006 02:33 GMT
#2
storm/goon is good but it generally isn't very cost-effective. As soon as the lurkers are dead you can start using your zealots but if you send them in early they'll just die to spines.

It's still gay though, and really hard to break.
Memory lane in nice
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
May 30 2006 02:36 GMT
#3
I just never fight sunken/lurker/spore and instead play sim city @ my expansions~_~
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
RaGe
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Belgium9949 Posts
May 30 2006 02:37 GMT
#4
It's not always beatable. If he was able to hold you back for a long time with lurkers and he has a bit superior eco, you wont get through his containment easily.

In general, you should harass with stormdrops and expand yourself, and make a goon/storm army if you want to break it. Prepare to fight hive tech.
Moderatorsometimes I get intimidated by the size of my right testicle
{ToT}Strafe
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Thailand7026 Posts
May 30 2006 02:40 GMT
#5
try to drop his main with reaver dt sair its funny;p usually if he turtles he also has islands dweb is pwnage for that. Make sure when you do this that you turtle a few exps with cannons and reavers. See whos gayer
ROOTheognis
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States4482 Posts
May 30 2006 02:44 GMT
#6
Arbiter recall ftw
If you avoid your weakness, it will remain your weakness. www.twitter.com/#!/rootheognis Follow me!
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
May 30 2006 02:49 GMT
#7
Wait wait, you might need obs sight but 1 reaver > sunk spore lurk no? Thoguh you'll need more to get it down faster =p
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20090 Posts
May 30 2006 03:28 GMT
#8
Carrier/sair
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
StarOfDust
Profile Joined September 2005
Sweden163 Posts
May 30 2006 03:51 GMT
#9
hmm, is it really possible to outgay strafe?
Me love u long time, keke!
NonYold
Profile Joined April 2004
United States2814 Posts
May 30 2006 03:56 GMT
#10
On May 30 2006 11:40 {ToT}Strafe wrote:
See whos gayer


strafe's bw philosophy in a nutshell
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
May 30 2006 04:08 GMT
#11
I want to re-learn SC from Strafe. ~_~ Art BW Mind.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
dream-_-
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
United States1857 Posts
May 30 2006 05:10 GMT
#12
reaver/sair > this. however the best way to stop this gay style is not give them time to get their expansion up in the first place. aggresive play with dts at all expoes makes it very difficult for z to mass defense. cant mass lurk sunk spore if p is constantly attacking your exp.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2672 Posts
May 30 2006 05:17 GMT
#13
On May 30 2006 11:44 YoiChiBow wrote:
Arbiter recall ftw
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
Nyovne
Profile Joined March 2006
Netherlands19135 Posts
May 30 2006 05:35 GMT
#14
On May 30 2006 12:51 StarOfDust wrote:
hmm, is it really possible to outgay strafe?


No, he's got the spawn gay and the spawn cheese ability. <3
ModeratorFor remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.
GsOne
Profile Joined November 2005
Poland164 Posts
May 30 2006 05:37 GMT
#15
I have problems when zerg makes this shit on his expo (securing two geysers) + a smaller version at his natural, then starts massing. I can't take min only expansions as he can take them out sooo easily, so I must take down one of his expo sites to win. It's kinda hard to get right timing to both break the contain, secure expo site and take down his expo site.

Which doesn't mean it's impossible - just punish him for taking the expo and trying to hold you in contain by breaking it and slowing down his expansions (or his main if he fucked up)
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2672 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-05-30 06:04:38
May 30 2006 06:04 GMT
#16
One thing that I'd love to try if I was protoss is to start sending out hallucinated shuttles late game pvz just to see how many scourges you can get him to waste.
It's only one scourge per shuttle but I imagine it would be pretty annoying for the zerg.

Edit: This is on the topic of gayness.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
XythOs
Profile Blog Joined February 2005
Germany520 Posts
May 30 2006 06:05 GMT
#17
Wouldnt 3-4 reavers do much damage to this?Reavers are expensive, yes but it's not that they are useless once you broke the defense.They do also good damage to Ultra/Crack and they are good to defense expos against swarm/ling.
I'm not a gosu or anything but I would like to hear you oppinions about it.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
May 30 2006 06:32 GMT
#18
Usually zerg will mass defense like this when hes behind, either un upgrades, or tech, (not on exps) and he cant face your army without losing mid game.

That allows you to expo yourself and play a macro game, usually the best macroer, and the smartest guy wins.

I wouldnt recommend attacking his defense unless you were completely certain he hasnt got too many hatcheries or he has a puny army.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
GoaLD50
Profile Joined February 2006
United States41 Posts
May 30 2006 07:46 GMT
#19
Obs range helps out vs spore.
GrandInquisitor *
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
New York City13113 Posts
May 30 2006 09:25 GMT
#20
Why reavers don't work - fucking retarded AI causes them to wander around sometimes, bringing them in sunk range.

sair/reav rapes sunk/lurk/spore though
What fun is it being cool if you can’t wear a sombrero?
5HITCOMBO
Profile Joined March 2006
Japan2239 Posts
May 30 2006 09:34 GMT
#21
On May 30 2006 18:25 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Why reavers don't work - fucking retarded AI causes them to wander around sometimes, bringing them in sunk range.

sair/reav rapes sunk/lurk/spore though

There's this thing called micro that you use to not sacrifice reavers to sunkens.
I live in perpetual fear of terrorists and studio gangsters
antrax
Profile Joined July 2005
Peru191 Posts
May 30 2006 10:16 GMT
#22
On May 30 2006 18:34 5HITCOMBO wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2006 18:25 GrandInquisitor wrote:
Why reavers don't work - fucking retarded AI causes them to wander around sometimes, bringing them in sunk range.

sair/reav rapes sunk/lurk/spore though

There's this thing called micro that you use to not sacrifice reavers to sunkens.


Obviusly you are not toss player, sometimes reavers don't even fire at sunkens, no matter you put stop, hold, attack, patrol, ... they just move within sunken range.
Deep tech
5HITCOMBO
Profile Joined March 2006
Japan2239 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-05-30 10:22:03
May 30 2006 10:21 GMT
#23
That happens when you run out of scarabs and you're building your next one. You don't have the hold position or attack commands (they don't do anything) while you're out of scarabs. I mean, is it really that hard for you not to move a reaver within sunken range, even if it isn't firing? You might want to practice a bit if that's happening to you.
I live in perpetual fear of terrorists and studio gangsters
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
May 30 2006 11:51 GMT
#24
On May 30 2006 12:51 StarOfDust wrote:
hmm, is it really possible to outgay strafe?

Strafe looks at other mens' penises when in a locker room!
that should answer your question.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
NonYold
Profile Joined April 2004
United States2814 Posts
May 30 2006 11:59 GMT
#25
On May 30 2006 19:21 5HITCOMBO wrote:
That happens when you run out of scarabs and you're building your next one. You don't have the hold position or attack commands (they don't do anything) while you're out of scarabs. I mean, is it really that hard for you not to move a reaver within sunken range, even if it isn't firing? You might want to practice a bit if that's happening to you.


ok, so you tell reaver to attack sunken and it moves within range of sunken. so you bring it out of range of the sunken, but keep sunken within range of reaver. it doesnt attack. you tell reaver to hold position. it doesnt attack. sure, you can micro reaver to not die to a sunken, but if the reaver can't siege the sunken, then there's no point in getting it in the first place.
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
May 30 2006 12:32 GMT
#26
We'll there's a lot of toss players that doesn't play much with their reaver. I'm myself Zerg but i ALWAYS manage to fire without being attacked. There's something wrong with you nothing more ;p
Try to train vs cpu zergs. He always does sunkens : just train where to drop to fire as far as you can.

When i'm hearing about how gay this scarab AI work i can't stop laughing at them cause of course it's not like the previous patches, but c'mon is that really hard to control the reaver to be able to kill all the drone ? Obviously u should not fire to the middle of a stacked drones that are fleeing (? i'm not sure about the word) if the reaver is behind them.
Also the better way would be to have 2 Hkey : one for shuttle and the other one for reaver unless you manage to click in the reaver and attack to where you want.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
Xeroth
Profile Joined July 2005
United States432 Posts
May 30 2006 14:22 GMT
#27
We are discussing reavers not being able to fire to their full range when attacking static D or lurker contain, not lurker drops in Drone patches.
Everyones favorite hick.
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
May 30 2006 14:43 GMT
#28
Yeah i know, it's just that there's too much whining wanabee that say imba everytime they lose their awfully controled reaver.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
May 30 2006 19:22 GMT
#29
On May 30 2006 23:43 RaiZ wrote:
Yeah i know, it's just that there's too much whining wanabee that say imba everytime they lose their awfully controled reaver.


Come on it's not that bad. I can tell the range of about anything but tanks in my mind (i always think tanks have shorter range than they actually do, damn things). So sometimes in an attack i drop a reav just out of sunk range, with 5 scarabs inside. Now, depending on the position it will or will not fire. If it's above, or horizontally alligned with the sunk it will almost always fire correctly. But if it's under the sunk at an angle it will sometimes just sit there and gaze upon the wonders of the sunken colony. If i move it one step forwards it gets poked. So I load it up again and drop it just a bit behind and it fires. And it happens quite often. You don't lose it but it's annoying. I will save the replay the next time this happens. Funny thing is that it usually fires if you move it a bit backwards than forwards. I don't know why, but as I said I'll post a replay... someday.
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
pfff
Profile Joined May 2004
Belgium1352 Posts
May 30 2006 20:07 GMT
#30
Mass expoes and get mass cannons/temps/dark archons/reavers/corsairs/arbiters
its even gayer then mass sunk/lurk/spore for a zerg to break
stasis field+storm+maelstrom+feedback on defs+d-web owns anything a zerg can throw at you when youre the one defending, and its retardedly cost effective.
just wait for the zerg to run out of money.
It ain’t no sin to be glad you’re alive
DarK]N[exuS
Profile Joined April 2006
China1441 Posts
May 30 2006 20:47 GMT
#31
Raiz, you're stupid.
Where joy exists despair will always beckon.
RaiZ
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
2813 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-05-30 22:48:29
May 30 2006 22:43 GMT
#32
Edit : nvm i'm tired.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Oscar Wilde
tossman07
Profile Joined May 2006
United States32 Posts
May 30 2006 23:19 GMT
#33
It's like any other defense. If he has more than you, don't attack and just expand yourself. If you can kill it cost effectively, then you attack. The best counter to sunk/lurk/spore imo is... observer speed and range. speed you need to avoid being scourged and range is actually really good, actually necessary when he has a lot of mixed spore/lurk.
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