EPT
Just wanted to point out the flaws for the TL community. Why? Not because I'm a dick, but because I've had lower level friends (10 or so - thus I assume everyone does this given the 100% success rate) who read something on TL's strategy forum and make it their go to build every game. For instance: LRM)nOoNe's 5 hatch hydra build (essentially ChOseN's), and he was only B rank.[G] PvT "safe" FE build - Page 2
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3191 Posts
Just wanted to point out the flaws for the TL community. Why? Not because I'm a dick, but because I've had lower level friends (10 or so - thus I assume everyone does this given the 100% success rate) who read something on TL's strategy forum and make it their go to build every game. For instance: LRM)nOoNe's 5 hatch hydra build (essentially ChOseN's), and he was only B rank. | ||
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Muff2n
United Kingdom250 Posts
17 goon 19 range 21 goon 23 nexus 23 goon 25 pylon 25 robo 29 gateway 30 gateway Nexus finishes and is used as pylon Advantages I see in this BO: -Faster goon range and 3 goons. This means I can send them out to micro vs FD and it causes me no issue. Or I can smack the bunker a little if they went rax cc. -Faster robo. Neutral Nexus is still in time to be used as a pylon before a push comes (saving minerals). I expect the economies to be around the same, though this is a guess. Disadvantages You probably get a few more goons in time for a 2 fact but I feel that the SKT BO is acceptable in this instance (and you can tell something is coming because your 3 goons won't have seen a cc or an FD unless the terran tries to hide the 2 fact... which I don't feel benefits him a lot because I'll be macroing out of 3 gates for a bit until my obs is out anways. But thanks for the guide, etc! Always interesting to see different approaches. | ||
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bulbasaur)
Poland11 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On January 08 2013 07:31 bulbasaur) wrote: Muff2n can you upload any rep with this build, the best would be with 2 facts or FD SKT1 build, aka 21 nex/1 goon FE, gets out 4 goons for FD timing (on FS they arrive a few seconds before terran gets to you're bridge). Replay: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=52525 | ||
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fold
Australia665 Posts
On January 08 2013 07:03 Muff2n wrote: I've not done this bo, but what about this build is better than the SKT bo?: 17 goon 19 range 21 goon 23 nexus 23 goon 25 pylon 25 robo 29 gateway 30 gateway Nexus finishes and is used as pylon Advantages I see in this BO: -Faster goon range and 3 goons. This means I can send them out to micro vs FD and it causes me no issue. Or I can smack the bunker a little if they went rax cc. -Faster robo. Neutral Nexus is still in time to be used as a pylon before a push comes (saving minerals). I expect the economies to be around the same, though this is a guess. Disadvantages You probably get a few more goons in time for a 2 fact but I feel that the SKT BO is acceptable in this instance (and you can tell something is coming because your 3 goons won't have seen a cc or an FD unless the terran tries to hide the 2 fact... which I don't feel benefits him a lot because I'll be macroing out of 3 gates for a bit until my obs is out anways. But thanks for the guide, etc! Always interesting to see different approaches. That's not the SKT1 BO though. It's actually 21 nexus 21 gate 21 goon 23 pylon 28 robo | ||
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plast1c
Germany100 Posts
On January 06 2013 10:32 iNfeRnaL wrote: Glad to see some people are still interesting in learning things in this beautiful game! Quite a decent number of views! :D BW FIGHTING~~ of course! it's a shame that liquipedia is so out of date. I really appreciate anyone to write a guide or current BOs. Thank you very much, i will try this at iccup! | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On January 08 2013 07:03 Muff2n wrote: I've not done this bo, but what about this build is better than the SKT bo?: 17 goon 19 range 21 goon 23 nexus 23 goon 25 pylon 25 robo 29 gateway 30 gateway Nexus finishes and is used as pylon Advantages I see in this BO: -Faster goon range and 3 goons. This means I can send them out to micro vs FD and it causes me no issue. Or I can smack the bunker a little if they went rax cc. -Faster robo. Neutral Nexus is still in time to be used as a pylon before a push comes (saving minerals). I expect the economies to be around the same, though this is a guess. Disadvantages You probably get a few more goons in time for a 2 fact but I feel that the SKT BO is acceptable in this instance (and you can tell something is coming because your 3 goons won't have seen a cc or an FD unless the terran tries to hide the 2 fact... which I don't feel benefits him a lot because I'll be macroing out of 3 gates for a bit until my obs is out anways. But thanks for the guide, etc! Always interesting to see different approaches. No goon before Nex in the SKT build. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
Unless you're thinking of a completely different SKT1 build, there is absolutely a goon before nexus. That's part of what allows you to have 4 goons at FD timing. There may well be multiple variants of SKT1 build though as I have seen Tento do a variation where he goes nexus before goon at like 18/19 and ends up with, iirc, 3 goons at the FD timing. For reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222055 | ||
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
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Harem
United States11392 Posts
On January 09 2013 03:23 L_Master wrote: Unless you're thinking of a completely different SKT1 build, there is absolutely a goon before nexus. That's part of what allows you to have 4 goons at FD timing. There may well be multiple variants of SKT1 build though as I have seen Tento do a variation where he goes nexus before goon at like 18/19 and ends up with, iirc, 3 goons at the FD timing. For reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222055 http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=52533 Here's a replay of Tento crushing Shinee with his version for anyone curious. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On January 09 2013 03:23 L_Master wrote: Unless you're thinking of a completely different SKT1 build, there is absolutely a goon before nexus. That's part of what allows you to have 4 goons at FD timing. There may well be multiple variants of SKT1 build though as I have seen Tento do a variation where he goes nexus before goon at like 18/19 and ends up with, iirc, 3 goons at the FD timing. For reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222055 I was thinking of http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2_Gate_Range_Expand | ||
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JMave
Singapore1805 Posts
On January 06 2013 22:34 Berceno wrote: what if they see the expansion and bunker rush?? hi infernal. how do you react to bunker rushes? i tried this a few times and it seems like bunker rush is quite effective since the goon and range are delayed slightly. if he doesnt commit a lot of workers to the rush then i could possibly fall behind economically and he can easily contain me. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1805 Posts
On January 08 2013 08:41 L_Master wrote: SKT1 build, aka 21 nex/1 goon FE, gets out 4 goons for FD timing (on FS they arrive a few seconds before terran gets to you're bridge). Replay: http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=52525 was it you in this replay? because the mistake of getting air armor than goon range could have cost you the nexus had his bunker been in range. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On January 09 2013 11:53 JMave wrote: was it you in this replay? because the mistake of getting air armor than goon range could have cost you the nexus had his bunker been in range. S and A are too close evidently. | ||
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puppykiller
United States3137 Posts
On January 09 2013 08:42 endy wrote: I was thinking of http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/2_Gate_Range_Expand Whoa someone added this to liquidpedia? Liquidpedia is improving. | ||
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endy
Switzerland8970 Posts
On January 09 2013 17:18 puppykiller wrote: Whoa someone added this to liquidpedia? Liquidpedia is improving. Yes, you can thank Kiante for that guide. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On January 09 2013 08:24 Harem wrote: http://www.repdepot.net/replay.php?id=52533 Here's a replay of Tento crushing Shinee with his version for anyone curious. That rep is ridiculous by the way. Shinee comes out and Tento has like everything. He seems to defend everything with it too, 3 fact, 6facts, etc. all off of like 5-7 gates. | ||
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
For me the explanation is easy. I don't need an observer all that early. I rather have a bigger army size, eco, faster expansion. What could potentially happen if you skip the obs for 1-2 min? The only thing that usually scared me off in this situation was a vulture drop but again, as I've said, add scouting pylons in drop route => problem solved. Even if he "flys around" that will buy you enough time to have your observer out + realize no push is coming and be super prepared. The SKT1 build is basically just a very greedy 1 gate expo. I don't really consider my build as a 1 gate expo, it's more like a hybrid of Nex first + 2 gate expo - and that's the beauty of it imo. I do have 4 goons by the time this push arrives as well, yea, my range is slightly later but I will do infinitely better with 2 gate goon support if ANYTHING goes wrong (or very right) for the Terran with his FD - especially if he wisely decides to add a 2nd tank which usually pressures ANY sort of 1 gate expo really really hard - ob on time or not. I rather have 6-8 goons + obs finishing that time vs it than 5 goons, 6th one making but observer ready. As I've stated however, the build is very fragile and most people might in fact be better off just using the SKT build cause it is a lot easier to execute. On January 09 2013 11:47 JMave wrote: hi infernal. how do you react to bunker rushes? i tried this a few times and it seems like bunker rush is quite effective since the goon and range are delayed slightly. if he doesnt commit a lot of workers to the rush then i could possibly fall behind economically and he can easily contain me. Same reaction as with 13 nex basically. If he sends a lot of SCV you sacrifice the Nexus, add Robo and pump out eco like crazy in the mean time. Remake expo as soon as you have 4-5 goon + one zealot to clean out mines. If he doesn't send a lot of SCV you use your probes + goons to defend, yep yep, I know, at this point you have no range, but guess what, usually scv/rine arrive before tank/vult in this scenario so you can still micro. Even tho this is 14 Nex this game (large ass map) - the reaction is exactly the same as with my build. 1628-QuestiP-ceOT-AFallenTT.rep Slide probes away & try to see if you can deny the bunker, if you can't stay at ramp and get ob. If you can stop the bunker tho, you basically won the game no matter how bad you play after. Important is that you use your 2nd Nexus to make probes as long as possible (until shit's actually hitting your Nex) | ||
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