EPThttp://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=30620
TvZ help Vs MASS Hydras
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kP_cHoBo
United States439 Posts
http://www.battlereports.com/viewreplays.php?replaynum=30620 | ||
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decafchicken
United States20155 Posts
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LegendaryDreams
Canada1350 Posts
Stuff to note: - Go stardard 11/12 rax, if you\'re not rushing it kills your macro a bit when you go 10/11 - Make your ebay right after you research acadamy stuff, upgrades help and it proved so - Both of you let your money run up, if you have excess either expand or make more barracks, making more marines out of one won\'t help - You had lots of space to expand when he went fast guards, and you didn\'t take the advantage to do so (you had a late cc) - Macro out of 2 rax until very later on wasn\'t so hot - No lurkers were made so you should have whored more tanks (make the tanks out of facts) - The guy wasn\'t that good and you should have won, macro macro macro::just make sure the lights in your barrack are always on, if not, off for at most 5~10 seconds. You want to keep unit production up | ||
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SchOOl_VicTIm
Greece2394 Posts
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Jim
Sweden1965 Posts
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
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NovaTheFeared
United States7232 Posts
But what you want vs. mass hydra is lots of MM + tanks. Hydras are balls vs. MM in terms of cost efficiency. | ||
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whatever
Mexico693 Posts
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iNsaNe-
Finland5201 Posts
On February 12 2006 12:24 Night[Mare] wrote: what is the sk-terran style i hear so much? No Tanks in TvZ, 2-3 Port + like 9 rax or so. Doesn't it come from some old pro SoulKey or something like that who used this? I'm not sure at all. | ||
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Night[Mare
Mexico4793 Posts
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iG.ErlinGho
136 Posts
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kP_cHoBo
United States439 Posts
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LegendaryDreams
Canada1350 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
Unless you are very good using mnm + vessel only, you will have a lot of trouble beating hydralurkers, especially if they use swarm, and if you are going pure mnm, and they are going pure hydra, then you are going to have troubles beating it if they have many bases, attack you with good flanks and use ensnare. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20155 Posts
On February 12 2006 12:44 iNsaNe- wrote: Doesn't it come from some old pro SoulKey or something like that who used this? I'm not sure at all. Yes. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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rel
Guam3521 Posts
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HappyManRun
1111 Posts
On February 12 2006 16:12 HungZerg wrote: if they have enough economy to win with pure hydras vs any build your probably long gone. heh prabably true! Mass hydra can rape anything given enough hydras ^^ Even storms will run out of manas :D | ||
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I-Emerge
United States435 Posts
P.S. Sorry I forgot to paste the post below here T_T | ||
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I-Emerge
United States435 Posts
FrozenArbiter Sweden. June 02 2005 08:25. Posts 16703 A couple of words on beating mass hydra; The number one thing is to secure your expansion, as the zerg is powering from just his main and nat, even when he does expand it will be later than normal so you can - most of the time - sit back and macro. Beating mass hydra with only zealot templar is, in large numbers, NOT doable in most cases (your storm must be sick), I'd suggest range goons + hts, goons with 2+ do good vs hydras, as do zealots, try to keep ahead on upgrade, you might even want to double forge). I usually try to go for a 'hanbang' rush, ie, one big solid rush to finish the game (intotherain style PvZ), as long as you have the timing right (if you are playing vs someone you know, this will become easier and easier very quickly with every passing game, and it will also come - but slower - vs strangers) you should be able to find out where his weak timing is (ie where he is massing expansions and/or switching to hive). As an example, vs one zerg friend of mine I almost never moved out prior to 100 supply (after the initial rush) and often not until 140~ depending on what had happened. This was the ultimate timing vs his build and I won countless games right then and there (before finding this timing I also lost countless games because I either couldn't hold or didn't get the timing right). I'd suggest you always try to keep 3 HTs with you, maybe even get the HT energy upgrade (very good vs most things actually). Hm, what else.. Oh yeah, as always vs den tech, after your expo is up - provided you have about 10~ zealots - you'll want to halt zealot production completely and ONLY produce dragoons until you have, say, a dozen. 12 zealots 12 dragoons 3 hts = can do a lot of shit vs hydras. Scouting him IS important, sometimes you might have gotten a bit behind early game, in which case your 12 z 12 d 3 ht will get crushed, you need to sit back for a little longer then, you might have another window at say 140 supply (around this number, sometimes much lower, sometimes higher but I find that was when a lot of games were won). Getting a dark templar out and patrolling the most likely expansions is CRUCIAL! The zerg friend I played vs had a quick lair with his 4 hatch hydra but even then it was worth it, control your dark templar well, really, treat this unit with a lot of respect because it is absolutely awesome. Should he be one of the 4 hatch no lair players, this DT will work wonders, and even with a fast lair you might be able to ward of the initial attack using pretty much only your dark templar, which is great. Getting a few DTs when he moves on to ultras is also good! Mix them with zealot archon templar and you'll be set They really take a big chunk out of ultras, oh and making a sair or 3 with this to force him to constantly control his overlords is very good ^^ All out sair/dt is not what I'd choose vs a player having started out with hydras though, as he's likely to have hydra attack upgrades! Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.. Oh yeah, 1 gate sair dt = beats the crap out of 4 hatch no lair hydra, as you get sick amounts of gas for hts and can get your expo easily, just macro and HT drop It can hold its own vs the fast lair variety as well with good storming and a few more cannons. tell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey op NoLT@Europe | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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I-Emerge
United States435 Posts
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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to miss the mark
Bosnia-Herzegovina1381 Posts
On February 12 2006 17:27 dronebabo wrote: lzol ok becuz u just copied and pasted a pvz guide LOL | ||
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SpeaKinRiddleS
United States148 Posts
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Kami5909
United States157 Posts
Basically, you need to get enough tanks to rape a large amount of hydras and somehow still have enough gas for sci to beat this. Don't skimp too much on medics, they're worth it vs hydras. | ||
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FroST(TE)
United States909 Posts
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KrAzYfoOL
Australia3037 Posts
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Breavman
Sweden598 Posts
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SchOOl_VicTIm
Greece2394 Posts
On February 12 2006 22:28 Kami5909 wrote: A lot of people underrate this style of zerg - I use it quite often, it's 3 hat 2 evo chamber hydras into 4 hat and pure hydra contain. They need to switch to 2 fact mass tanks to beat this, at which point you should have a group or two of mutas flying around, and they have no gas to sci with (not enough to beat you, at least). I usually max upgrades before the terran is 2-2 because they're using all their gas on tanks. Late game you make a group of guardians and go on the rampage with 3-3 hydras, scourge, and guards. Get defilers and queens if you can. Basically, you need to get enough tanks to rape a large amount of hydras and somehow still have enough gas for sci to beat this. Don't skimp too much on medics, they're worth it vs hydras. and somehow you're supposed to shit gas to get all this as a zerg | ||
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BatTheMan
Canada759 Posts
On February 13 2006 05:47 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote: and somehow you're supposed to shit gas to get all this as a zerg basically yeah | ||
RaGe
Belgium9950 Posts
On February 12 2006 17:27 dronebabo wrote: lzol ok becuz u just copied and pasted a pvz guide o rly | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On February 12 2006 17:16 I-Emerge wrote: lol Yes of course. Didn't you see that I mentioned the "Sk-Terran Style?" how does saying one line about how to counter sk terran and then copying an entire post about pvz relate to a tvz thread? | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32278 Posts
On February 12 2006 17:27 dronebabo wrote: lzol ok becuz u just copied and pasted a pvz guide lzol /highfives | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
instead of 1 or 1 1/2 more groups of m&ms 5-10 tanks and ull win this so much.. But mass hyds is mainly good if your opponent is better than u anyway so no reason to look for faults... must be a huge gap in skill.. | ||
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k3fka
Argentina1267 Posts
In maps like Luna or forte which have very big open spaces you really need to get 2 fact tanks and goons when fighting hydras. | ||
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k3fka
Argentina1267 Posts
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Eagleheart
Sweden776 Posts
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[CS]Pablo
Brazil338 Posts
In general, wouldn't queens be always perfect companions to mass hydra? They esnare queens , reavers (shuttles), sairs (on sair+DT) and marines, and broodling tanks and HT. | ||
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Kami5909
United States157 Posts
On February 13 2006 05:47 SchOOl_VicTIm wrote: and somehow you're supposed to shit gas to get all this as a zerg You play it as a regular 3 hat with speedlings until you can get 2 evo chambers running your hydra upgrades, then you hold off on lair to get your hydra range and speed. Your main and nat can power enough hydras to break out and contain the terran, at which point you drop hats in expo spots and get your lair. With enough hydras, you can hold quite a bit of m/m/tanks provided you can flank well, especially if you try not to engage until your upgrades are done. Look, if you can power 3 hat hydralurk off of 2 expos, you can power 3 hat hydras with upgrades. From there you expand and play lategame zerg. Total gas for lurks - 100 gas for lair + 200 gas for lurk upgrade + 125 gas for each lurk. Total gas for hydra - 250 gas for hydra upgrades, 250 gas for evo chamber upgrades, 25 for each hydra. Total gas is LESS than lurks, you can actually make 5 hydras for every 1 lurk. | ||
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kP_cHoBo
United States439 Posts
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RuNei
United States30 Posts
But seriously, its all about the tanx -.- Mines would work up to the point of fast ovies.. by then u might want to have a tank or two ya kno? GLHF | ||
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tKd_
United States2916 Posts
On February 13 2006 13:12 [CS]Pablo wrote: Wouldn't broodlings be a viable counter if you go mass hydra and he responds with mass tanks? It would minimize the tank damage and would drive the marines mad trying to kill the broodlings. In general, wouldn't queens be always perfect companions to mass hydra? They esnare queens , reavers (shuttles), sairs (on sair+DT) and marines, and broodling tanks and HT. This has been something I've been trying and it does work but you seriously need lurkers first in my opinion. You can begin to mass queens and going for hydras instead of lurkers but in early-mid. game you will just get pulverized. This however can be assisted by 3 hatch burrow/speed ling flanks to get to your queen point assuming he does a regular 2 rax to tank build. | ||
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Resonate
United Kingdom8402 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
you need your barrack at 10. It's for protection versus a lingrush and for having a marine that much faster to kill a drone, overlord or w/e. But mostly it's protection versus fast pool. Also if you find a pool being a little late then 10rax can be enough for a bunkerush but 11 no way | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
The 'slight(?)' economic advantage versus a potential loss if he 9 pools and is close. Plus it lets you go offensive early game imo. Someone explain. | ||
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CCHS
United States614 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On February 14 2006 11:02 CCHS wrote: zeg hates cliff drops Especially on all that new maps being around ! Like Luna , RoV , R point Rush Hour .. ect -_-v | ||
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kP_cHoBo
United States439 Posts
On February 14 2006 05:07 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: You can play sk terran just fine versus hydra or hydralurk, but it requires good micro and macro skills, and the alternative is a lot easier. FE into 4-5 rax and 2 fac tanks destroys it, and this is also one of the reasons zerg users play ling/lurker based strats nowadays. Did u even watch the replay? He didn't START OUT with MASS hydras....he first went guardians then into mass hydras....I thought I had a pretty good counter by having 2 control groups of marines and tanks and about 4-5 vesselz..but I guess not..plz first watch teh replay b4 replying cuz only two ppl in this thread answered my question and even bothered to watch the replay and they told me I needed upgrades. Is that ALL that I needed to improve on or do or is there anything else? Any advice on what I did wrong(after watching my replay)is much appreciated. ty | ||
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~rOyAL~
New Zealand175 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On February 14 2006 14:32 kP_cHoBo wrote: Did u even watch the replay? He didn't START OUT with MASS hydras....he first went guardians then into mass hydras....I thought I had a pretty good counter by having 2 control groups of marines and tanks and about 4-5 vesselz..but I guess not..plz first watch teh replay b4 replying cuz only two ppl in this thread answered my question and even bothered to watch the replay and they told me I needed upgrades. Is that ALL that I needed to improve on or do or is there anything else? Any advice on what I did wrong(after watching my replay)is much appreciated. ty I was not so much answering your original question as I was saying things i belive is right to contribute to the new discussion that usually pops up after 2-3 pages. And no, I didnt watch the replay. | ||
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sdpgposd
United Kingdom1464 Posts
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