EPTand what is the best build vs anything when my ally is terran? ive tried the above build with hatch at ramp, but if they attack me early on before the hatch is ready, im kinda dead, cause my ally cant really help me.
! [Q] Zerg in 2v2, help plz
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
Death-Link
Greece126 Posts
and what is the best build vs anything when my ally is terran? ive tried the above build with hatch at ramp, but if they attack me early on before the hatch is ready, im kinda dead, cause my ally cant really help me. | ||
|
-=SWM=-
Canada306 Posts
if he starts wasting too much money on D for his workers check if he has expanded if he has, hit mineral line then while constantly making more mutas, if he starts wasting on then pull back regroup quickly with freshly hatched ones and rush him again. I also prefer to start upg air immediatly +1 attack usually first. This is just my suggestion and works for me alot. Also if your attacks are successful expand after each attack. | ||
|
hasuwar
7365 Posts
pssst. Anyone know how people like this find tl.net? | ||
|
FirstProbe
1206 Posts
| ||
|
Arg.Iceman
Argentina213 Posts
 My personal pick for 2v2 is opening 12 pool and move to 3 hatch speedling while teching to muta, works fine for me except against ZP (sair/muta kicks my butt  ) | ||
|
Blue.Turtle
United States27 Posts
but out of all seriousness a good team of ZT should have the zerg member being more ling heavy while the terran is teching to vultures (unless T is way too far away) and then after you think you have enough forces to hold off an attack from the other team then you should start teching to mutas ASAP dont forget to have a healthy amount of drones/hatcheries. *note that this wont work on every situation | ||
|
lil.sis
China4650 Posts
the build i use vs teams with zerg or protoss is 12 pool 11 hatch, unless i get recon that tells me to pool earlier put that 2nd hatch in a good defensive position where you can whore it up with sunkens (2 should be enough for your ramp, for your natural use your discretion, sometimes i do two, sometimes i do 8 lol) then build shit whatever try to avoid teching too much. what you want to do is mass up a lot of basic units and overwhelm your opponent. once you turn it into a 2v1 then it's time to expand and tech by far the most important advice is find a partner to play with if you haven't already, and play a LOT of games. after a while you will develop a coordination, and a sense for each other's plays and timing. team chemistry is much more important than any build orders people can give you | ||
|
yare
507 Posts
| ||
Live2Win
United States6657 Posts
vs TP u are guaranteed to be able to harrass atleast one of them. Just get up T or P's ramp, and run around gaining time. Ramp hatch fairly early, have a steady drone count but dont' stop ling production, and then go to lair and muta. ZP vs TP Fast expo might work. But your partner must harrass the P. The T wont' be active and if ur partner keeps the P busy with 2 gate rush or something, you will have time to fast expo. But you must give him ling support asap. If you succeed in expo, make sure to sunken up and survive the TP attack that they WILL launch. Have ur partner canon and u sunken if u must. And wait for ur mutas. vs TZ, if you ar ZP then 9 pool and 9/10 gate vs the Z. The T won't do anything for a while so take the chance and try a sunken/ling/zeal rush against the Z. The Z will have to have a VERY strong defence. The chances of the rush working is pretty good, cuz for the Z to block he needs 2 sunks, and u will be ahead of him in 2nd hatch, which should be ramped. Eventually go to muta. ZT vs ZT u 9 pool again. I've seen alot of ZT vs ZT in the SKY proleague and the build is ALWAYS 9 pool Z, and the T techs. 9 pool so ur partner can tech, (harrass if u see opportunity) and then go to Muta/ling, and ur partner mass goliaths. The game should rely on decision and gameplay from there on. | ||
|
Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
DO NOT EXPO VS A TZ TEAM IF YOUR ALLY IS TERRAN. You will die. 3 hatch lings from zerg enemy plus mm from terran enemy will kill your expo and encroach your main before your allies marinemed/vultures reach you. And yes, if they scout fast expo from you, there is a good chance zerg will go 3 hatch ling, and the terran might even do 3 rax marine/med. If you are a TZ team, the following are viable: vs TT: Expo because one base zerg seems to weak vs two terran. Usually if a TT team faces a TZ team, the one closer to the T tech, and the one closer to the Z goes marine/med. However, scout them, because theres a good chacne they might both go marines to try and kill you fast. In that case, sunk up heavily, or get lings to support four sunkens, and your ally should preferably go vultures. You can also 9 pool if your ling micro is gosu, but if you fail to do any sort of damage with it, you will die a horrible death vs two soon to be very powerful terrans. A 9 pool one base zerg is awfully weak vs two terrans with normal eco. vs PP: Hatch at ramp. Pool before hatch is advisable, esp if you're at 12 or 3 and the other position is occupied by the enemy. 9 pool into three hatch lings while your ally techs to vultures is the safest build in my opinion. If both toss went zealot rush to try and kill you and failed, game and map control will shift heavily in your favor once your ally gets vultures. Only way toss can survive that is cannoning their ramps, which they probably will, but that will let you get map control and expo. vs ZZ: Turtle. 9 pool and hatch adjacent to main hatch. Turtle and survive and wait for your ally to get strong. vs TZ: 9 pool or 12 hatch 11 pool both work. 9 pool seems to be the preferred pro build order, but I think at our level 12 hatch 11 pool works just as well. If your ally goes marine and enemy T goes tech, you MUST do at least SOME damage to one of them, usually zerg. Otherwise when enemy terran's tech kicks in, you will be at a disadvantage. For that reason, the "safe" build is for zerg to go mutaling, and terran to go vulture into gol/tank. vs PZ: 9 pool into three hatch ling. Hard rush and micro game. vs TP: Expo is viable, but hard to keep sometimes. Hatch at ramp is safest, unless its like 12/3 on LT. You can go either muta or lurk off one base, but I generally decide based on terran tech ie if enemy terran goes mech, I muta ling, and if he goes marine I go lurk and try to secure expo as soon as I can. Your ally should, of course, tech, and send you tanks as soon as he can so you can get your expo up. I hope this helped. | ||
|
Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
| ||
|
Elvin_vn
Vietnam2038 Posts
| ||
|
Ace
United States16096 Posts
| ||
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
On September 28 2005 22:58 Gandalf wrote: vs ZZ: Turtle. 9 pool and hatch adjacent to main hatch. Turtle and survive and wait for your ally to get strong. vs ZZ rather go 11 or 12 pool, because - due to the way between the mains you will still have your sunk(s) in time as well as your lings ('cept maybe on a map like requiem, not sure) - you will get behind anyway, because you will need to build sunkens, so the additional drones are good - you won't be able to get on the offensive for a while, so you might as well get some more eco as long as you are still safe (which you are. at least as safe as being a Z vs ZZ can get) DO NOT BUILD YOUR FIRST SUNK IN YOUR MINERAL LINE, you need to place it in a way to prevent getting off sunked, which ZZ teams LOVE to do vs Z/P and Z/T | ||
|
GuYuTe-
United States550 Posts
12 hatch in main under or beside original hatch with sunken room. 12 pool 11 gas Mass speed ling/mutes. Burrow can be damn good against unsuspecting terran. Massing enough lings is key to stopping rush long enough for partner to help. I like to have two unmade sunks if I suspect rush and morph when you scout them coming. vs TP team i like to quick hatch ledge and lurk rush or hydra/lurk into drops. Or you can go mute/ling still. If there is another Z in the game who is worth a shit he will mass mute/ling. You have to match him. From my experience, if you're facing two good zergs and you are zerg also, your in a lot of trouble. I think you still have to mute/ling and hope to god your ally is really good. Cause it's basically impossible to hold off 2v1 fast muta/ling rushes. And GL getting an expo running. Ideally you want a terran ally vs ZvZ IMO. | ||
|
ZzTiger
United States1 Post
What do you guys think about hatch placement for this one? All 3 in Main or 1st get expo and then one on ledge/ramp or some other order? | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2649 Posts
I'd def hatch vs PP and I'd probably expo vs TT (It migth survive or it migth not, either way if both of them MM my allies vults is going to own the map for a while once they pop out. Most important thing to think about is sunken placment, it's no 1 thing early game. You have to think about off sunks (mostly against ZZ though) and marines. Usually one sunk in front mineral line and one on other side of main hatch (either behind or infront of second hatch) covers your base, then mass lings as backup. Also good scouting allows you to build a 3rd sunk as they leave base and supplement with lings as needed, usually you have larva and cash waiting for your spire to finish. | ||
|
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
you must play only newbies then, because against competent players you already have very high chance of an AUTOLOSS since they 9pool. | ||
|
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2649 Posts
On September 30 2005 07:37 Carnac wrote: you 12 hatch 11 pool if at least one of them is zerg? you must play only newbies then, because against competent players you already have very high chance of an AUTOLOSS since they 9pool. Of course I don't play very competent players, that would require me to put in more effort than the game is worth. And if I'm the least bit unsure about it (normally you know very fast) I'll 12 pool 11 hatch instead. In rare cases when 2 players random z I'll get raped anyway, but not very often. But of course, if both of them are Z I wouldn't 12 hatch. Edit: Against Z + R safer build with pool first, against R + R the chance of getting owned by dual ninepool is only 1/3 * 1/3 * n00b factor = Somewhere around 11 % down towards zero. | ||
|
Carnac
Germany / USA16648 Posts
| ||
|
iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
vs zz you need to expect pressure. Top zz teams will do 1 9pool and the other macro 2 hatch or 12 pool to muts while the other puts constant pressure on you hoping for you to fall behind in production so early muts can make it a 2v1. In this scenario get in survivor mode, you dont need to be offensive, if you can make sunk./lings and even spore if needed so as to live long enough for your t partner to get his rine/medic/bat force up you will have a huge advantage. The 9pooling - pressure z is far behind and shouldnt be able to handle the t's force, from there the game is in your control, than macro to muts and expand etc... vs dual 9pool, again survivor mode. Basically the gist of this is you are to survive, with a t partner. If your tp is another z or a p early offense is an option, but with a t partner u simply dont have the team speed to be effective. If you face a t/p team 2 hatch and be flexible. If they sair/rine you can make a spore and macro to expo while your tp helps you turtle to macro as well. Most t/p teams do 1 of 2 things, they either early rush with zealot/rine/medic in which case you need to have hatch ramped and made 2-3 sunks or they will turtle to macro in which you need to either double up on one of em or macro yourselves. With t = survive with z/p = decide on style, early offense or reactionary tactics. | ||
|
mcmascote
Brazil1575 Posts
On September 28 2005 17:57 -=SWM=- wrote: 12 hatch at natural, 12 pool, keep 1 ovvie near choke to see for rush, build sunkens (2-3) for D if u feel they gonna rush or a few lings if u feel u can micro well, Fast lair, Spire, Muta harass pwns mm + vult just keep harassing his mineral line if he starts wasting too much money on D for his workers check if he has expanded if he has, hit mineral line then while constantly making more mutas, if he starts wasting on then pull back regroup quickly with freshly hatched ones and rush him again. I also prefer to start upg air immediatly +1 attack usually first. This is just my suggestion and works for me alot. Also if your attacks are successful expand after each attack. hmmm this is a common zvt build.. he was asking for 2v2 BOs.. :p | ||
|
immortal
Austria13 Posts
On September 28 2005 22:58 Gandalf wrote: vs PP: Hatch at ramp. Pool before hatch is advisable, esp if you're at 12 or 3 and the other position is occupied by the enemy. 9 pool into three hatch lings while your ally techs to vultures is the safest build in my opinion. If both toss went zealot rush to try and kill you and failed, game and map control will shift heavily in your favor once your ally gets vultures. Only way toss can survive that is cannoning their ramps, which they probably will, but that will let you get map control and expo. This is something I tried quite a view times and it worked extremely well as ZT vs PP: You go 9 hatch expo, 9 pool, 9 ovi (so the standard 9hatch 9ovi 9pool build with pool first). The tosses will scout your expo and most likely go 2gate both, expecting to run you over, but if you play it right, they won't be able to do it and just suffer great losses while the T can comfortably expo (being save with mines vs lots), drop tech, etc.. With this build you will have like 6-8 lings + 1 sunken, when the first lot of each of them arrives. If they continue the rush, just add sunkens and lings as needed. Don't gas, as long as the rush continues, you need all the mins. When they give up, build up your eco + 2 gas and start whatever tech. | ||
|
Ganfei1
China667 Posts
| ||
|
LuMiX
China5757 Posts
| ||
|
j0ehoe
United States2705 Posts
| ||
| ||
