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Korea (South)1740 Posts
On March 31 2005 16:11 MPXMX wrote:
CAUTION: This build may suck on maps like Incubus, Luna, Bladestorm & co. Writer not liable for knuckle injuries resulted from using this build.
I completely agree this build seems 100% matched for LT. But I'd also like to hear your reasoning why it wouldn't work so well for those other maps you mentioned.
I could understand why this build loses its effectiveness on bladestorm (as z taking mineral only is as safe as going twin hatch in main). I'd also imagine it's riskier on maps without ramps like Incubus but even on Incubus, esp if you're across from each other, I don't see it as being that much worse--> you can narrow your choke with good gateway placement and play normally, and if the Z commits to mass lings, you can go 2 gate or go fast forge o_o
Why would it not work on Luna?
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hey sweet idea.
I wonder why i never thought of this before?
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Well I just think as soon as your first zeals are fended off (and they will be because they are coming from just 1 gate) mass speed lings will break your choke (it's too wide) before your 2nd gate kicks in and 1 gate won't supply enough guys to defend once the choke is broken. And forge and cannons will be an expensive impediment with this poor build. It can work if zerg does the wrong things, is what I think.
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I'm not so sure... as a zerg when you go 9 pool, you've only really succeeded when you've hurt him with your early lings or harassed him enough to buy time to expand and make drones. Usually this is achieved by getting into the toss's base, because especially in close positions, the timing is such that only 1 zealot is out. Using this build 2 zealots are out by the time lings get to your ramp.
Also, the real plan for this build is to safely go 1 gate and making sure the zerg taking his expo is late, while pressuring him early. If the zerg went 9 pool and made zerglings as well, then effectively you've succeeded in delaying his expo and going 1 gate tech "safely."
However, I do think that pool first would definitely be the most effective build against this 6 gate build. I believe we basically agree. if the zerg goes 9 pool i think the tempo of the game is still in the zergs control even though the zerg was not able to get into the toss player base. VS 9 pool you dont really pressure early or delay his expo. He pressures and you defend well, while his pressure has him not expoing. I wonder about the timing of a quick change to muta or lurk off of 9 pool... But, if you tech too hard mass ling or a hydra switch could take you down.
Gosu players get gosu by playing a ton, not by musing over different strategies, for the most part, right? In a kingdom interview he was taking about his game vs junwi(i think) in which he mind controls some ultras. He said that he figured that was good because it was effectively a +2 for him. Taking away a unit from the opponent and giving him one. THIS IS OBVIOUS. That does not really tell any real good reason why that was good (if it actually was). In my experience, 'good' players tend to give the best insight. If 'gosu' players post some advice its usually in the "it works" vein and they do not give any reasons why.
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
On March 31 2005 16:32 MPXMX wrote:
Well I just think as soon as your first zeals are fended off (and they will be because they are coming from just 1 gate) mass speed lings will break your choke (it's too wide) before your 2nd gate kicks in and 1 gate won't supply enough guys to defend once the choke is broken. And forge and cannons will be an expensive impediment with this poor build. It can work if zerg does the wrong things, is what I think.
I think you may be right... I think I'll try this out on some unsuspecting fool to test how safe it is.
Fakesteve where AAARRRRRRRRE youuuuuuu
<3<3
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Korea (South)1740 Posts
On March 31 2005 16:33 Knickknack wrote:
I believe we basically agree. if the zerg goes 9 pool i think the tempo of the game is still in the zergs control even though the zerg was not able to get into the toss player base. VS 9 pool you dont really pressure early or delay his expo. He pressures and you defend well, while his pressure has him not expoing. I wonder about the timing of a quick change to muta or lurk off of 9 pool... But, if you tech too hard mass ling or a hydra switch could take you down.
Yes, we do basically agree. But I suppose I consider it a victory (as does the author) that the zerg is forced to make essentially useless lings early and that he takes his natural much later and that he makes drones later. In my experience, it's just soooo hard to win against a zerg who takes his natural expo safely and doesn't get harassed until corsairs or something. The fact a zerg has to consider going tech or pure hydra from 1 base means that in a sense the toss is dictating play, narrowing the z's options.
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that was well written and worth a try
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as i was reading the headline i thought u mean 1gate fe --> 6gate zeal only ^^;
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at first glance i thought it meant make 6 gates, hit zzzzzzzzzzzz and hope for luck 
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in my opinion 7 gate is better because you get your zealot at about the same time as 6 and you get an extra probe but all these builds are pretty much the same.
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also the problem with these types of builds is they will be beaten by a 9 pool.
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Uhjoo, if he's unsuspecting, that may defeat the point of testing 
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my first attempt and its far positions and the zerg does 12pool->hatch->mass lings so naturally i lose...
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On March 31 2005 16:00 MPXMX wrote:I didn't die! Great success!! (Borat anyone?) Uhjoo, the problem with TL strategy forum going "in this direction" is that, for example IntoTheNal_Ra, or whatever his nickname is, is a good player as far as I know. I believe I've seen his replays multiple times on ygclan, beside other gosus' names. So he has credibility... Here, a lot of the time people write out their ideas, they quickly get defeated by players with Names: i.e. This won't work because __. And how can people know what really works until they''ve tried it at a very high level ? This is why recognized players should post more worthwhile content here. BigBalls, Twisted, and perhaps NoNy have done some of that. But on a larger scale, and particularly at this time there is little gosu activity, little credibility, and little o r i g i n a l, and i n t e r e s t i n g content here 2 cents
I agree with you to a point, but i also disagree with you. I believe the idea that uhjoo said will work. Many of these ideas chobos/not gosus post are usefull in some situations. For all strategies there are strengths and weaknesses.
I believe that if people post an idea, other people (better will give reasons why or why wont it work. Many times when the people with names say it wont work they also give something that will work. If the author of the post is able to incorporate the comments into his original strategy then it will be even better. At the bottom of the strats there could also be a pros and cons of the strat kind of thing.
Just my 2 cents
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I prefer to get 7 gates, usually it shocks the zerg unless they have mutalisks because no ground army is gonna stop 7 gates
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1 lurk?
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On March 31 2005 14:30 uhjoo wrote:
1) Don’t relax, thinking you have a huge advantage. Your opponent, after all, is zerg and you’re protoss.
This one is golden. Should be added to TL all stars quotes.
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Canada9720 Posts
On March 31 2005 18:18 EchoOfRain wrote:
also the problem with these types of builds is they will be beaten by a 9 pool.
Did you read any part of the first page?
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On April 01 2005 05:56 CTStalker wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2005 18:18 EchoOfRain wrote:
also the problem with these types of builds is they will be beaten by a 9 pool. Did you read any part of the first page?
The zealot from a 6/6 build comes out slightly earlier than the 6 lings from a 9pool. Your zealot rush is effectively stopped before it had even started. The zerg player is now free to do whatever he wants as he has complete control over what the protoss player does at this point. There is more to the 9pool than just the rush..
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EPT
