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On June 20 2011 22:07 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2011 05:03 Dymond wrote:On June 18 2011 21:03 Navane wrote:
There is no AMM, so be prepared to get stomped 100 games before you get your first win. Literally, I'm 0-86. jesus watch some replays and copy the Bo some times vs PC or whatever... I went 10-16 when I started playing ICCup
With what kind of cheese? I guess it's possible with Protoss because you don't have to micro, but even then it takes a lot of practice macroing up the build order, unless you're doing abusive stuff like 2 Gate openings. I still don't understand why 2 gate is the norm in iccup PvT, when it's never used in pro games. People look too much in the short term.
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Everyone that has posted in this thread so far definitely has one thing right, and that is that BW is a lot harder than SC2. I began playing BW in anticipation for SC2 around May last year. Not that I have not played it before, but that was when I was very young and did not continue to play for long. But at last I got my own copy of BW last year. Since the inception of me playing BW I immediately watched a load of pro replays and learned build orders and styles of play. In a matter of weeks I at least gained a good understanding of how to play.
Playing mostly on the European server, I got lucky and won 2-3 games in the first week, but I guess my opponents weren't that good. But in general you will find that most players you will face are pretty solid in their play. On ICCUP it is definitely challenging, and there is where you will truly learn how to play the game. Since SC2 came out I have not played BW much, but during the latter times of my time with BW I still struggled to win though, hardly winning much.
Overall, watch enough replays to therefore gain a good understanding of the game and train hard. I cannot emphasize that enough. Training constantly was most certainly the factor that helped me to learn to play BW. And last but not least, try to enjoy it even though the game is very competitive
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mass games definitely is the best way to improve
youre going to lose a lot, dont let it discourage you
sometimes youll lose and youll think wow, i just got fucking owned
but sometimes youll be confused and lose a game you thought you were winning, or just lose to something and have no idea what happened
so in games like those its important to watch the replay and figure out what went wrong, and how to fix it
other than that just look up safe, standard BOs, practice them and youll improve.
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On June 21 2011 21:48 wassbix wrote:
Not to be rude but making a BW -> SC2 conversion guide in a thread specifically asking for SC2 -> BW seems a little out of place and not what he is asking for.
Someone else asked, and I put it in spoiler tags for him.
To OP biggest switch you'll notice is that macro actually exists in BW and is quite important. No longer can you tend to your expos and production with solely hotkeys, but instead smart usage of F keys and good allocation of your attention (when you can look away from a battle, etc) will determine your macro capabilities.
"Solely" hotkeys is a bit of an exaggeration. You do need to pop back to your base fairly regularly as all three races, for building construction, mules, chrono boosts, etc.
SC2 Zerg really doesn't benefit much from easymodo mechanics on the macro side of things (the micro side, though...), because they hotkey all their hatches individually (or their queens individually), and have to go home every 30 seconds to inject and creep spread. Or, as Idra infamously put it
3v shift backspace click backspace click backspace click 4srrrrr box select c shift click click click click 4svv select vs click.
Which is what SC2 Zerg do every 30 seconds. So if you want to dip your toes into the wonders of mechanics, try SC2 Zerg, then BW Zerg, then BW Protoss, then BW Terran.
BW Terrans mechanics venture only the ridiculous. Playing Terran in BW, I often feel like the game itself is my opponent and the other guy doesn't even matter. Click m click m click m click m click m click c click m click m click m click m click c....
Edit: Anyway, OPs only in diamond. He can't even master SC2's mechanics.
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On June 21 2011 12:07 sluggaslamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 01:43 renzy wrote:On June 20 2011 19:13 sluggaslamoo wrote:On June 20 2011 03:10 cattypakes wrote:On June 19 2011 20:43 sixfour wrote:On June 19 2011 19:19 blubbdavid wrote:On June 18 2011 23:22 sixfour wrote:
p for probes This doesn't make any sense. when i first picked up sc2 i was confused that probes were on a different key True that, I'm pretty much going zerg because I can't stand probes and pylons being on 'p'. Anways, thanks for not being a bunch of assholes and giving me actual advice!! love y'all forever Nah man P for probe is awesome. It means you can have you buildings hotkeyed on the right hand side, while your units on the left. And making probes is way easier than the other two races. PvZ. 0 nexus, 9 nexus, 8 stargate, 7 robo/gateway. Other: 0 nexus, 9 nexus, 8 robo/gateway When you want to make probes just go 0p9p, much easier than 4sd5sd. I think the 0p9p8p setup isn't as good as it seems. It may seem smart to use hotkeys like this, but I think using 4 for nexus and physically sliding your hand over is better for the long run, because you get warmed up and get a feel for where "P" is in the early game, so that in late game, its quite a bit easier to put down pylons, since you're sliding your hand over anyways. 6789 and maybe 0 should all be used for gateways so that once u get to 12 gates, its easier to macro, because an f2 screen should be able to get 8 gates, while ur 4 hotkeys take care of the others. I know progamers use this setup, but I don't know what blue and green ranked protoss use. Most yellow ranks like myself use this setup I think. Problem is corsair is also 0. Its much easier to go 0p9p8o, than 4p5p6o, No only that having 09 on nexuses and 8 on stargate frees 1234567 for units. If you get in the habit of playing on the right-hand side, it allows you to have much better army control once you get in the late game. Especially in PvP/PvT where you need to 1a2a34a5a6a7a around the map to keep their army in check. Usually you use fkeys for bases because you have to go back to them anyway to send workers to mine, and have production buildings be double tapping on a hotkey.
To be honest, if you need more than 6 hotkeys for units, you have too little probes. Most progamers use this set up because 1-5 as units guarantees enough saturation. Also, in this set up, an f key is natural, 4 is the only nexus hotkeyed.
Anyways, I guess this setup depends on preference, and ur grasp of ur worker to unit ratio. I find this useful because It'll tell me when I stop making workers, or if I have enough workers for that matter, as a protoss player.
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On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote:
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
Ummm, forge FE is standard not greedy. On bnet they mostly play on python where 2 gating and 1 gate tech is okay but I don't think 1 base play works vs zerg on big maps like Fighting Spirit. Unless your opponent is really bad he will just die to it and call you noob.
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On June 23 2011 14:45 mansa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote:
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
Ummm, forge FE is standard not greedy.
It's greedy compared to a 4 warpgate rush, or even a 3gate expo. Forge FE is viable in both games, but it's MUCH more common on ICCUP than it is on the SC2 ladder. SC2 players start the pressure/harassment earlier and harder, while BW players tend to macro up a little first. As a general rule, of course. I've been bunker rushed on Python and seen 15 Nexus openings on Tal'Darim Altar, but the rule of thumb is that ICCUP is more passive and macro-y early game and SC2 does more early 1-base pressure before expanding.
On bnet they mostly play on python where 2 gating and 1 gate tech is okay but I don't think 1 base play works vs zerg on big maps like Fighting Spirit. Unless your opponent is really bad he will just die to it and call you noob.
Forge FE can and does happen in SC2, but it's more common to get 3 warpgates and pump some sentries before doing some pressure and expanding. I'm speaking as a Zerg in both games, but going Forge FE on most maps allows the Zerg to take a quick third, which can be more of a problem in SC2 than in BW for reasons that have to do with timings that I won't get into (short version: SC2 Zerg can have 70 drones way way faster if left unmolested than BW Zerg).
There was a game where Nestea was playing...I think Bomber on Tal'Darim Altar. Bomber was super-passive for the first fifteen minutes, so Nestea got 6 mining bases, 110 drones, and was building spine crawlers 15 at time by the timing Bomber took his third. This is a situation most non-Zerg SC2 players try to avoid.
Edit: Also, BW bnet is all custom and NR15 games. I assume you mean ICCUP.
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On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote:
Reavers shoot banelings that sometimes get performance anxiety and fail to explode.
This is defiantly the best thing I've heard all day.
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On June 21 2011 22:23 ninini wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2011 22:07 7mk wrote:On June 19 2011 05:03 Dymond wrote:On June 18 2011 21:03 Navane wrote:
There is no AMM, so be prepared to get stomped 100 games before you get your first win. Literally, I'm 0-86. jesus watch some replays and copy the Bo some times vs PC or whatever... I went 10-16 when I started playing ICCup With what kind of cheese? I guess it's possible with Protoss because you don't have to micro, but even then it takes a lot of practice macroing up the build order, unless you're doing abusive stuff like 2 Gate openings. I still don't understand why 2 gate is the norm in iccup PvT, when it's never used in pro games. People look too much in the short term.
because they're most likely 13years old and thinking long term has never even enter their minds? :b
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i've been playing BW for years and i had a hard time with SC2
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I'll give a quick explanation of each matchup in a standard game:
TvZ - My fave since a lot of shit dies and there will be blood everywhere. For terrans, it used to be mainly bio with marine/medic/science vessels. Now many terrans are opening/transitioning to mech (tanks/vultures/goliaths) and it is close to standard now. For zergs, the typical game goes: FE, muta harass (very specific technique to do this), lurkers, hive, get defilers, then go all out macro, maybe transition to ultras. Against mech, you'll also need hydras.
TvP - Big macro war with both races trying to get a larger army than the other through harassing and map control. Terrans always go mech (bio just melts to storm). Protoss gets a large gateway army, and techs to storms/arbiters/carriers.
PvZ - Protoss forge FEs and gets a few quick corsairs to scout, then goes for +1 Speedlot push to try and deal damage. Zerg tries to get a spire and a 3rd up quickly and successfully defend from the corsairs and speedlots using sim citied sunkens/hydras/lurkers/mutas/scourge. Macro game ensues with a gateway/templar/reaver/corsair army vs ling/hydra/lurker/muta/scourge army.
TvT - usually very long games. Tanks + vultures, then tanks + battlecruisers/wraiths. Fight for map control/positioning.
ZvZ - usually very short games. 3 BOs (9pool, overpool, 12hatch) which are like rock paper scissors, but not completely. Speedlings transitioning to mutas. Very low econ.
PvP - an interesting mirror matchup. Large micro battles with storms and reavers usually deciding the battles.
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On June 23 2011 15:03 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 14:45 mansa wrote:On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote:
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
Ummm, forge FE is standard not greedy. It's greedy compared to a 4 warpgate rush, or even a 3gate expo. Forge FE is viable in both games, but it's MUCH more common on ICCUP than it is on the SC2 ladder. SC2 players start the pressure/harassment earlier and harder, while BW players tend to macro up a little first. As a general rule, of course. I've been bunker rushed on Python and seen 15 Nexus openings on Tal'Darim Altar, but the rule of thumb is that ICCUP is more passive and macro-y early game and SC2 does more early 1-base pressure before expanding. Show nested quote +On bnet they mostly play on python where 2 gating and 1 gate tech is okay but I don't think 1 base play works vs zerg on big maps like Fighting Spirit. Unless your opponent is really bad he will just die to it and call you noob. Forge FE can and does happen in SC2, but it's more common to get 3 warpgates and pump some sentries before doing some pressure and expanding. I'm speaking as a Zerg in both games, but going Forge FE on most maps allows the Zerg to take a quick third, which can be more of a problem in SC2 than in BW for reasons that have to do with timings that I won't get into (short version: SC2 Zerg can have 70 drones way way faster if left unmolested than BW Zerg). There was a game where Nestea was playing...I think Bomber on Tal'Darim Altar. Bomber was super-passive for the first fifteen minutes, so Nestea got 6 mining bases, 110 drones, and was building spine crawlers 15 at time by the timing Bomber took his third. This is a situation most non-Zerg SC2 players try to avoid. Edit: Also, BW bnet is all custom and NR15 games. I assume you mean ICCUP.
Well, Thats a unexpected reply.
I was not comparing SC2 to BW in any way. Bnet =/= SC2. In US west people still play Melee alot specially koreans
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On June 23 2011 15:03 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 14:45 mansa wrote:On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote:
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
Ummm, forge FE is standard not greedy. It's greedy compared to a 4 warpgate rush, or even a 3gate expo. Forge FE is viable in both games, but it's MUCH more common on ICCUP than it is on the SC2 ladder. SC2 players start the pressure/harassment earlier and harder, while BW players tend to macro up a little first. As a general rule, of course. I've been bunker rushed on Python and seen 15 Nexus openings on Tal'Darim Altar, but the rule of thumb is that ICCUP is more passive and macro-y early game and SC2 does more early 1-base pressure before expanding. Show nested quote +On bnet they mostly play on python where 2 gating and 1 gate tech is okay but I don't think 1 base play works vs zerg on big maps like Fighting Spirit. Unless your opponent is really bad he will just die to it and call you noob. Forge FE can and does happen in SC2, but it's more common to get 3 warpgates and pump some sentries before doing some pressure and expanding. I'm speaking as a Zerg in both games, but going Forge FE on most maps allows the Zerg to take a quick third, which can be more of a problem in SC2 than in BW for reasons that have to do with timings that I won't get into (short version: SC2 Zerg can have 70 drones way way faster if left unmolested than BW Zerg). There was a game where Nestea was playing...I think Bomber on Tal'Darim Altar. Bomber was super-passive for the first fifteen minutes, so Nestea got 6 mining bases, 110 drones, and was building spine crawlers 15 at time by the timing Bomber took his third. This is a situation most non-Zerg SC2 players try to avoid. Edit: Also, BW bnet is all custom and NR15 games. I assume you mean ICCUP.
Comparing different games is pretty pointless for this case, what is considered greedy in SC2 is not greedy in BW. Forge FE is standard in PvZ, 12 Nexus is greedy (gain economical lead but dies to 9pool, overpool, etc.). Another example is 1 rax FE is standard, 14cc is greedy.
Also if you haven't noticed this is the BW forums, what was posted does not have much to do with what the OP asked about. If one wishes to understand SC2 better there is a whole section of teamliquid dedicated to it. Thanks.
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On June 19 2011 19:19 blubbdavid wrote:This doesn't make any sense.
Are you saying having P for Probes doesn't make sense? That's up to opinion, but in general, no, it doesn't make sense.
Saying that P is for Probes does make a LOT of sense - it changes your whole hotkey setup.
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On June 21 2011 20:54 Black[CAT] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2011 17:11 Ribbon wrote:
SC2 to Brood War Conversion Guide: Terran
Nukes in BW are completely worthless.
Tell that to Boxer.
Getting nuked is a lot like losing to tossgirl. The shame is enough to make pros retire.
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perhaps the best advice of all is to not give up
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On June 23 2011 20:43 mansa wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 15:03 Ribbon wrote:On June 23 2011 14:45 mansa wrote:On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote:
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
Ummm, forge FE is standard not greedy. It's greedy compared to a 4 warpgate rush, or even a 3gate expo. Forge FE is viable in both games, but it's MUCH more common on ICCUP than it is on the SC2 ladder. SC2 players start the pressure/harassment earlier and harder, while BW players tend to macro up a little first. As a general rule, of course. I've been bunker rushed on Python and seen 15 Nexus openings on Tal'Darim Altar, but the rule of thumb is that ICCUP is more passive and macro-y early game and SC2 does more early 1-base pressure before expanding. On bnet they mostly play on python where 2 gating and 1 gate tech is okay but I don't think 1 base play works vs zerg on big maps like Fighting Spirit. Unless your opponent is really bad he will just die to it and call you noob. Forge FE can and does happen in SC2, but it's more common to get 3 warpgates and pump some sentries before doing some pressure and expanding. I'm speaking as a Zerg in both games, but going Forge FE on most maps allows the Zerg to take a quick third, which can be more of a problem in SC2 than in BW for reasons that have to do with timings that I won't get into (short version: SC2 Zerg can have 70 drones way way faster if left unmolested than BW Zerg). There was a game where Nestea was playing...I think Bomber on Tal'Darim Altar. Bomber was super-passive for the first fifteen minutes, so Nestea got 6 mining bases, 110 drones, and was building spine crawlers 15 at time by the timing Bomber took his third. This is a situation most non-Zerg SC2 players try to avoid. Edit: Also, BW bnet is all custom and NR15 games. I assume you mean ICCUP. Well, Thats a unexpected reply. I was not comparing SC2 to BW in any way. Bnet =/= SC2. In US west people still play Melee alot specially koreans
Well, the threads about highlighting the differences. I knew what you meant, but I decided to elaborate on my point. ICCUP plays macro, which may surprise and SC2 player used to get attacked early every game on the ladder. I just tend to write essays when I should be writing posts 
I don't play on bnet that often, but last time I went it was all customs. But I went to US East, and maybe it was just that day.
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Hi im a sc2 player too (1plat)! im looking to get good at sc bw too just started playing brood war like 5 days ago if u want we can be practice partners download ICCUP u can find more competitive games there i have watched a lot of pro games so i kinda have an idea of what i have to do PM if u want to practice
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On June 24 2011 05:25 Ribbon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 20:43 mansa wrote:On June 23 2011 15:03 Ribbon wrote:On June 23 2011 14:45 mansa wrote:On June 21 2011 09:00 Ribbon wrote:
1. ICCUP is a lot greedier than bnet. Playing PvZ will see the protoss open forge FE like 99% of the time.
Ummm, forge FE is standard not greedy. It's greedy compared to a 4 warpgate rush, or even a 3gate expo. Forge FE is viable in both games, but it's MUCH more common on ICCUP than it is on the SC2 ladder. SC2 players start the pressure/harassment earlier and harder, while BW players tend to macro up a little first. As a general rule, of course. I've been bunker rushed on Python and seen 15 Nexus openings on Tal'Darim Altar, but the rule of thumb is that ICCUP is more passive and macro-y early game and SC2 does more early 1-base pressure before expanding. On bnet they mostly play on python where 2 gating and 1 gate tech is okay but I don't think 1 base play works vs zerg on big maps like Fighting Spirit. Unless your opponent is really bad he will just die to it and call you noob. Forge FE can and does happen in SC2, but it's more common to get 3 warpgates and pump some sentries before doing some pressure and expanding. I'm speaking as a Zerg in both games, but going Forge FE on most maps allows the Zerg to take a quick third, which can be more of a problem in SC2 than in BW for reasons that have to do with timings that I won't get into (short version: SC2 Zerg can have 70 drones way way faster if left unmolested than BW Zerg). There was a game where Nestea was playing...I think Bomber on Tal'Darim Altar. Bomber was super-passive for the first fifteen minutes, so Nestea got 6 mining bases, 110 drones, and was building spine crawlers 15 at time by the timing Bomber took his third. This is a situation most non-Zerg SC2 players try to avoid. Edit: Also, BW bnet is all custom and NR15 games. I assume you mean ICCUP. Well, Thats a unexpected reply. I was not comparing SC2 to BW in any way. Bnet =/= SC2. In US west people still play Melee alot specially koreans Well, the threads about highlighting the differences. I knew what you meant, but I decided to elaborate on my point. ICCUP plays macro, which may surprise and SC2 player used to get attacked early every game on the ladder. I just tend to write essays when I should be writing posts I don't play on bnet that often, but last time I went it was all customs. But I went to US East, and maybe it was just that day.
US West is where most of the Melee games are played. US East is mostly Team games or UMS games. 
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There are also games on Asia. But I really recommend using wLauncher or Chaos with wDetector and make sure you have BWHF its just that people really likes hacking in bnet
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EPT
