On August 13 2020 14:48 Anc13nt wrote: need advice on how to defend 5 fac push in pvt. I thought it was a really bad build when i was weaker but the 1900+ mmr terran players pull it off really well. Like I usually can see it happening and add up to 8 gates but I lose the first fight and they have like 6-7 tanks left then just keep reinforcing with like 5 vultures at a time. I'd like to know what is a proper timing when it comes to adding gateways as I suspect I am adding them too late. Also want to know the optimal timing to engage the terran army and if I should cut gas.
edit: also would like advice on how to properly execute a one base bull dog push in pvt
Reaver is the best vs 5 fact pushes. You can slow the push significantly, kill a lot of vulture easily etc. Also you don't want to sit on your side of the map, take 12 goons + reaver and be aggresive, even if you don't engage that buys you more time for your gateway production to kick in.
On August 13 2020 14:48 Anc13nt wrote: need advice on how to defend 5 fac push in pvt. I thought it was a really bad build when i was weaker but the 1900+ mmr terran players pull it off really well. Like I usually can see it happening and add up to 8 gates but I lose the first fight and they have like 6-7 tanks left then just keep reinforcing with like 5 vultures at a time. I'd like to know what is a proper timing when it comes to adding gateways as I suspect I am adding them too late. Also want to know the optimal timing to engage the terran army and if I should cut gas.
edit: also would like advice on how to properly execute a one base bull dog push in pvt
Reaver is the best vs 5 fact pushes. You can slow the push significantly, kill a lot of vulture easily etc. Also you don't want to sit on your side of the map, take 12 goons + reaver and be aggresive, even if you don't engage that buys you more time for your gateway production to kick in.
thank you very much. I seldom make reaver because I feel like good terran player have turrets or a wraith and I thought reavers were not worth the cost if terran is ready for it. I will definitely give reaver style a try. One more thing, Is it best to get 2 reaver and/or shuttle speed? I'd like to think I have ok reaver micro so i don't think I would use them ineffectively.
On August 13 2020 14:48 Anc13nt wrote: need advice on how to defend 5 fac push in pvt. I thought it was a really bad build when i was weaker but the 1900+ mmr terran players pull it off really well. Like I usually can see it happening and add up to 8 gates but I lose the first fight and they have like 6-7 tanks left then just keep reinforcing with like 5 vultures at a time. I'd like to know what is a proper timing when it comes to adding gateways as I suspect I am adding them too late. Also want to know the optimal timing to engage the terran army and if I should cut gas.
edit: also would like advice on how to properly execute a one base bull dog push in pvt
Reaver is the best vs 5 fact pushes. You can slow the push significantly, kill a lot of vulture easily etc. Also you don't want to sit on your side of the map, take 12 goons + reaver and be aggresive, even if you don't engage that buys you more time for your gateway production to kick in.
thank you very much. I seldom make reaver because I feel like good terran player have turrets or a wraith and I thought reavers were not worth the cost if terran is ready for it. I will definitely give reaver style a try. One more thing, Is it best to get 2 reaver and/or shuttle speed? I'd like to think I have ok reaver micro so i don't think I would use them ineffectively.
I would get a second Shuttle just for Zealot bombs. Speed has been popular in PvT for the past few years afaik but i am not sure if it's worth getting it so early for 5 Fac when your main focus is pumping out units.
Keep in mind that you don't actually have to harass with your first Reaver + Shuttle if it's not safe, you can use it to keep them in their base while you macro up or to help slow down their pushes.
On August 13 2020 14:48 Anc13nt wrote: need advice on how to defend 5 fac push in pvt. I thought it was a really bad build when i was weaker but the 1900+ mmr terran players pull it off really well. Like I usually can see it happening and add up to 8 gates but I lose the first fight and they have like 6-7 tanks left then just keep reinforcing with like 5 vultures at a time. I'd like to know what is a proper timing when it comes to adding gateways as I suspect I am adding them too late. Also want to know the optimal timing to engage the terran army and if I should cut gas.
edit: also would like advice on how to properly execute a one base bull dog push in pvt
Reaver is the best vs 5 fact pushes. You can slow the push significantly, kill a lot of vulture easily etc. Also you don't want to sit on your side of the map, take 12 goons + reaver and be aggresive, even if you don't engage that buys you more time for your gateway production to kick in.
thank you very much. I seldom make reaver because I feel like good terran player have turrets or a wraith and I thought reavers were not worth the cost if terran is ready for it. I will definitely give reaver style a try. One more thing, Is it best to get 2 reaver and/or shuttle speed? I'd like to think I have ok reaver micro so i don't think I would use them ineffectively.
I would get a second Shuttle just for Zealot bombs. Speed has been popular in PvT for the past few years afaik but i am not sure if it's worth getting it so early for 5 Fac when your main focus is pumping out units.
Keep in mind that you don't actually have to harass with your first Reaver + Shuttle if it's not safe, you can use it to keep them in their base while you macro up or to help slow down their pushes.
i see. whenever I have a reaver in a shuttle I always want to get value out of it asap but I'm guessing that is misconception I've had for years.
I have a replay request. C rank or higher 2020 replay of you stopping a 2 base hydra all in and a 3 base hydra bust. PvZ. Could also be of you getting denied by a good protoss. I'd like to see a few so I can get a better understanding of this situation. Ty. I especially want to know how to bust out of a hydra/lurker contain when they just won't let you out.
On August 16 2020 23:27 Golgotha wrote: I have a replay request. C rank or higher 2020 replay of you stopping a 2 base hydra all in and a 3 base hydra bust. PvZ. Could also be of you getting denied by a good protoss. I'd like to see a few so I can get a better understanding of this situation. Ty. I especially want to know how to bust out of a hydra/lurker contain when they just won't let you out.
Lurker contains were very popular around ~2009-2010 or so on Fighting Spirit and especially Sniper Ridge so I think actually reviewing old replays and VODs here will be worthwhile.
Zero could return his hydras home earlier, they were out in the front when the first drop occurred and he took a lot of damage. Bisu carried the game from there.
There are also plenty different transitions from 9734, with various lair timings.
Bisu destroys this zerg who opens 973. Bisu goes speed shuttle reaver and this zerg can't do crap against it. Completely dicked around.
What could the zerg have done to defend against something like this? 973 won't have spire out in time for this. So what would you do?
Bisu was playing extremely well this game.
For sure. Dude was on a mission. Other than splitting the hydras, was there another way to slow bisu down or exploit a weakness of his?
i think zero would've dealt with it well if he pulled some of his hydras back like what soulforged said. That would probably be the best way of surviving reaver harass. I don't think zerg can slow down robo timing by much though.
Also, when bisu moved out with the shuttle, he had 4 zealots and 6 cannons at his natural while zero had roughly 20 hydras. He could've tried to counterattack and might've been able to break through the defense. I'm not saying that is the wisest move because, in theory, bisu could've almost finished his zealots and his 2nd reaver, which would make the attack fail in all likelihood. And If the attack fails, he will lose. I mention this though because in ladder, some zergs will attack anyway in this situation and sometimes it works.
On August 23 2020 07:07 [Fin]Vittu wrote: any examples of a T holding a 2 gate proxy without a wall in?
Can't really remember a link to a vod but basically at S ranks and below you have to make a bunker asap as soon as you scout 2 gate or see 2 zealots walk in. Your sim city has to be good as well and factory near bunker + sim city or zealots can keep picking off the scv building the factory.
Once you get your factory up make 2 vultures and you should be able to kill any more zealots that walk in or you can also send them to Protoss's base and Protoss will have to react properly or just lose.
It's extremely hard to defend 2 gate zealot at lower levels because a few mistakes and you're dead, it's one of those things you need constant practice to beat.
need some advice on dealing with muta in pvz. I often skip +1 air and don't get punished but I wonder if that is actually really bad play. Also, I need some advice on how to execute the 8 gate PvZ allin in terms of micro and how to transition after failing. 1900+ mmr zerg macro so many hydras that it's really hard to finish them off (they have so many reinforcements). Sometimes I get lucky and get very good storms but otherwise I find it hard to beat them.
On August 25 2020 15:01 Anc13nt wrote: need some advice on dealing with muta in pvz. I often skip +1 air and don't get punished but I wonder if that is actually really bad play. Also, I need some advice on how to execute the 8 gate PvZ allin in terms of micro and how to transition after failing. 1900+ mmr zerg macro so many hydras that it's really hard to finish them off (they have so many reinforcements). Sometimes I get lucky and get very good storms but otherwise I find it hard to beat them.
If lair = +1 air If no lair = 1 sair, templar mass gate
If you fail 8 gate +2 timing (by fail I mean lose all army) u just gg...
If you cant break him with your timing can try to control the center with ur army while expanding / harrasing / deny bases.
If floating money = cannons. If 200 = cannons If u wanna make more gates = cannons
On August 25 2020 15:01 Anc13nt wrote: need some advice on dealing with muta in pvz. I often skip +1 air and don't get punished but I wonder if that is actually really bad play. Also, I need some advice on how to execute the 8 gate PvZ allin in terms of micro and how to transition after failing. 1900+ mmr zerg macro so many hydras that it's really hard to finish them off (they have so many reinforcements). Sometimes I get lucky and get very good storms but otherwise I find it hard to beat them.
If lair = +1 air If no lair = 1 sair, templar mass gate
If you fail 8 gate +2 timing (by fail I mean lose all army) u just gg...
If you cant break him with your timing can try to control the center with ur army while expanding / harrasing / deny bases.
If floating money = cannons. If 200 = cannons If u wanna make more gates = cannons
Here are two other situations vs 1gate proxy (one of them hidden in Flash's base !) that should give you the idea on how to micro/react: + Show Spoiler +
And here are two more against proxy 2gate (or rather: Flash probably assumes it might be 2 gates), where Nada/Flash opt to go for 2rax to counter it: + Show Spoiler +
So in short these VoDs show the following options: - sim city in advance (depot to the right of barracks, etc.) - scout possible proxy-locations in time - pull SCVs and micro like a god - building-block your entrance if you can to keep more zealots out - bunker - go for a 2nd rax (if you're pretty sure it's full zealot-rush)
On August 25 2020 15:01 Anc13nt wrote: need some advice on dealing with muta in pvz. I often skip +1 air and don't get punished but I wonder if that is actually really bad play. Also, I need some advice on how to execute the 8 gate PvZ allin in terms of micro and how to transition after failing. 1900+ mmr zerg macro so many hydras that it's really hard to finish them off (they have so many reinforcements). Sometimes I get lucky and get very good storms but otherwise I find it hard to beat them.
If lair = +1 air If no lair = 1 sair, templar mass gate
If you fail 8 gate +2 timing (by fail I mean lose all army) u just gg...
If you cant break him with your timing can try to control the center with ur army while expanding / harrasing / deny bases.
If floating money = cannons. If 200 = cannons If u wanna make more gates = cannons
thanks. Do you have any army control tips?
i use 1 - 2 for goons + obs + few templar. (but i get obs sight really fast vs lurkers) 3 - 4 zealot 5 left over army just dont dive blindly into lurker fields / mass sunken.
1a2a 3 move 4 move 5 move. if he gets close 3a4a5a to defend goons, good storms is priority over microing goon/zealots.
This is more tactics than strategy but if anyone just saw the ending of the epic TvP on Flash's stream, I found this interesting. Maybe the terran didn't think of it or the game was lost but I feel like there was a good tactical play at the end that wasn't used. https://imgur.com/aXkr1jT The green area had protoss buildings and terran destroyed them, opening pathways to the army. If they target fired deeper buildings, they can leave up their wall and proceed east to target the resource area as well. This was terran's last chance to make a play so it's worth devoting all attention to maximizing the tactics. Anyway, thought I'd share the idea.
EPT
