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On July 22 2019 09:43 fefil wrote:
Call me stubborn but I cant be assed to play these long drawn out games where nothing really happens. Id rather bust or die trying.
That said I am currently tilted so I am sure thats influencing me right now
imo based on how you want to play, I suggest you go 8 gate in the midgame for PvZ. It's hard to win quickly on 6 gate (especially if they are turtling at 2 naturals and have 4 base in total). Also, in my experience, medium-level zergs don't like to go muta in midgame so you may want to consider skimping on sairs or going for zealot timings.
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Carriers are actually a way to end pvz game with an attack when you have some economical lead. Draco was doing it again when playing at remaster release. It's not the easiest thing to find the window to start making it but it's playable, just need some gas lead or something like that. But yeah also reavers, and recalls imo. When you don't have a lead in pvz, I think often you are losing the endgame unless you turtle up at times yeah, it's annoying. Feels like Z has both better defense and attack. You just have better energy potentially^^
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thanks guys.
Prometheus, how did he deal with dark swarm and/or plague when going carriers? I would do it too but I cant wrap my head around that part of it, plus hydras do bonus damage to carriers
another question, how do I do the carrier bug so all the interceptors come out at once instead of individually? just target one of my own gateways or something and cancel before it dies?
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Norway28804 Posts
Carriers are really situational/map dependent and normally a followup to corsair reaver. (that way you have corsairs that can handle scourge and reavers that handle hydras just hanging out in dark swarm).
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I saw Light putting 2 Firebats in each of his 3 Bunkers against Larva’s Dark Swarm + Lurker pushes. Are “Firebat Bunkers” good against Swarm+Lurkers?
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On July 23 2019 18:49 fefil wrote:
thanks guys.
Prometheus, how did he deal with dark swarm and/or plague when going carriers? I would do it too but I cant wrap my head around that part of it, plus hydras do bonus damage to carriers
another question, how do I do the carrier bug so all the interceptors come out at once instead of individually? just target one of my own gateways or something and cancel before it dies?
Well defilers can't easily plague carriers cause they have more range and ofc you still want to use them often over cliffs, but you want that gas or economical lead so that Z can't easily attack you elsewhere with the defilers either. Draco was doing it with some tight defense walled in with zeals and DTs, perhaps a dark archon behind and HTs (/reavers). Hydras don't deal bonus damage to carriers just normal. Generally there is a window to start making carriers after you secured some economical lead especially, I've done it sometimes Z could struggle defending due to not anticipating a bunch of carriers coming along with some regular army and unable to deal with it cause they need a different composition, and suddenly you're able to destroy sunkens and hatcheries much easier (and/or skip their fat ground defense to kill stuff on high ground for example). If he swarms you can still fly around and kill other stuff and come back.. well I just suggest you try it it's pretty good, don't forget the air upgrades and try to get a economical lead before you start the carriers i think. I don't really use a particular bug to make interceptors come out of carriers just right click a enemy unit rather than attack move but you can also attack one of your own units or building yeah.
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On July 23 2019 18:49 fefil wrote:
thanks guys.
Prometheus, how did he deal with dark swarm and/or plague when going carriers? I would do it too but I cant wrap my head around that part of it, plus hydras do bonus damage to carriers
another question, how do I do the carrier bug so all the interceptors come out at once instead of individually? just target one of my own gateways or something and cancel before it dies?
The carriers have to always move, then the interceptors don't dock after they finished attacking but fly beneath the carrier as the carrier moves along. In this state the interceptors all start attacking simultaneously when you give the command. If the carriers stop though they will all dock and launch one at a time when somethings is attacked.
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What is the modern TvP response for Nexus first when scouted last on maps like FS? Protoss seems to know how to block marines SCV rush...
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On July 25 2019 04:46 Wrath wrote:
What is the modern TvP response for Nexus first when scouted last on maps like FS? Protoss seems to know how to block marines SCV rush...
Have you tried responding with* fast Dropship play, or Spider Mine double expand?
*edit for clarity
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Usually I go into an all in mode with marine scv and mostly lose it.
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how the fuck do I defend against 3 simultaneous lurker drops as protoss? observers are so slow. yes I know that the speed upgrade is good but still. seems like you have to have your army split perfectly and still maintain a strong map presence so he doesnt just go snipe your third. what a game.
1700 P
On July 25 2019 04:46 Wrath wrote:
What is the modern TvP response for Nexus first when scouted last on maps like FS? Protoss seems to know how to block marines SCV rush...
you 100% need to put pressure on early and vulture drops are a good way to do so. however, i will say that the idea behind a marine scv rush isn't to necessarily outright kill the nexus. if you can snipe some probes, deny mining time, etc. then it is usually worth it. it's all about how many SCVs you bring. 4-5 should suffice, no need to go all gun-ho and bring more than that unless you are positive you can kill the nexus. after, go fast mines and try to deny him even further. this is what I lose to but i am barely B rank so take it with a grain of salt.
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On July 25 2019 10:01 fefil wrote:how the fuck do I defend against 3 simultaneous lurker drops as protoss? observers are so slow. yes I know that the speed upgrade is good but still. seems like you have to have your army split perfectly and still maintain a strong map presence so he doesnt just go snipe your third. what a game. 1700 P Show nested quote +On July 25 2019 04:46 Wrath wrote:
What is the modern TvP response for Nexus first when scouted last on maps like FS? Protoss seems to know how to block marines SCV rush... you 100% need to put pressure on early and vulture drops are a good way to do so. however, i will say that the idea behind a marine scv rush isn't to necessarily outright kill the nexus. if you can snipe some probes, deny mining time, etc. then it is usually worth it. it's all about how many SCVs you bring. 4-5 should suffice, no need to go all gun-ho and bring more than that unless you are positive you can kill the nexus. after, go fast mines and try to deny him even further. this is what I lose to but i am barely B rank so take it with a grain of salt.
It sounds like you aren't being active with your Corsair fleet (scouting, preventing random Overlords from being everywhere, etc.). In general, you clear out one of the mineral lines, bring your workers there, then clear out the other ones and spread accordingly. Add Cannons and maybe a Templar for defense in each base after that to prevent him from doing it again, and clean up stray Overlords with Corsair. I think this is an instance where you would have to provide a replay, though.
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On July 25 2019 10:01 fefil wrote:
how the fuck do I defend against 3 simultaneous lurker drops as protoss? observers are so slow. yes I know that the speed upgrade is good but still. seems like you have to have your army split perfectly and still maintain a strong map presence so he doesnt just go snipe your third. what a game.
1700 P
from my studies of progamer replays on this matter, most protoss players just do 1/2 cannon per mineral line if they confirm lurker + overlord speed.
Same response for confirmed spire after delayed lair.
other than that above post about corsair management is pretty much all you need, getting used to F keys is also fundamental to deal with guerrilla tactics.
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Thank you. What is the key to sniping scourge with your corsairs before they allahu ahkbar you? I know with +1 you have to have at least 4. i also put a trapped probe in the same hotkey as my corsairs so they stack. Problem is it almost never works.
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On July 26 2019 06:00 fefil wrote:
I know with +1 you have to have at least 4. i also put a trapped probe in the same hotkey as my corsairs so they stack. Problem is it almost never works.
Need at least 5 with +1 to two-shot.
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On July 26 2019 06:00 fefil wrote:i also put a trapped probe in the same hotkey as my corsairs so they stack. Problem is it almost never works.
the condition for trapped probe stacking your corsairs is that the probe is distant enough so it isn't in the corsairs' "magic box". I don't use this trick cause I think its annoying lul don't need it for non pro tourney play imo : P
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Norway28804 Posts
trapped probe makes microing sairs a lot easier and better vs scourge. and it's easier than having to swap overlord every minute. Dunno why that would be an area to intentionally handicap yourself - I think 6+1 sairs with a probe will probably have just as good utility vs scourge as 7+1 without trapped probe.
And yeah it's a number thing. Even 5+1 is on the low end for killing scourge - you can do it but mostly if you get to target them and your sairs are nicely bunched. have 7+1 and you can be much more comfortable, doesn't require as slick micro to avoid losing sairs then.
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On July 26 2019 07:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
trapped probe makes microing sairs a lot easier and better vs scourge. and it's easier than having to swap overlord every minute. Dunno why that would be an area to intentionally handicap yourself - I think 6+1 sairs with a probe will probably have just as good utility vs scourge as 7+1 without trapped probe.
And yeah it's a number thing. Even 5+1 is on the low end for killing scourge - you can do it but mostly if you get to target them and your sairs are nicely bunched. have 7+1 and you can be much more comfortable, doesn't require as slick micro to avoid losing sairs then.
okay, followup question. as someone who is a noob and only 1700 on a good day, what do you think about me making just 2-3 corsairs to scout and possibly kill an overlord here and there? i find that the investment diminishes after I make anymore than that. should I keep doing what works for me or should I make more corsairs to eventually improve my play with them? not sure if that made sense im drunk
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On July 26 2019 10:52 fefil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2019 07:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
trapped probe makes microing sairs a lot easier and better vs scourge. and it's easier than having to swap overlord every minute. Dunno why that would be an area to intentionally handicap yourself - I think 6+1 sairs with a probe will probably have just as good utility vs scourge as 7+1 without trapped probe.
And yeah it's a number thing. Even 5+1 is on the low end for killing scourge - you can do it but mostly if you get to target them and your sairs are nicely bunched. have 7+1 and you can be much more comfortable, doesn't require as slick micro to avoid losing sairs then.
okay, followup question. as someone who is a noob and only 1700 on a good day, what do you think about me making just 2-3 corsairs to scout and possibly kill an overlord here and there? i find that the investment diminishes after I make anymore than that. should I keep doing what works for me or should I make more corsairs to eventually improve my play with them? not sure if that made sense im drunk
Going up to just 3 Corsair when you see they are going mass hydra is a decent number to stop at
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On July 26 2019 11:49 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2019 10:52 fefil wrote:On July 26 2019 07:43 Liquid`Drone wrote:
trapped probe makes microing sairs a lot easier and better vs scourge. and it's easier than having to swap overlord every minute. Dunno why that would be an area to intentionally handicap yourself - I think 6+1 sairs with a probe will probably have just as good utility vs scourge as 7+1 without trapped probe.
And yeah it's a number thing. Even 5+1 is on the low end for killing scourge - you can do it but mostly if you get to target them and your sairs are nicely bunched. have 7+1 and you can be much more comfortable, doesn't require as slick micro to avoid losing sairs then.
okay, followup question. as someone who is a noob and only 1700 on a good day, what do you think about me making just 2-3 corsairs to scout and possibly kill an overlord here and there? i find that the investment diminishes after I make anymore than that. should I keep doing what works for me or should I make more corsairs to eventually improve my play with them? not sure if that made sense im drunk Going up to just 3 Corsair when you see they are going mass hydra is a decent number to stop at
but what about generally? the only exception i'd make more is against muta
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EPT
