WCSSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 423
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Alpha-NP-
United States1073 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia4722 Posts
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Jealous
7477 Posts
On June 25 2019 11:53 evilfatsh1t wrote: the most influential unit for zerg a game like that would be the queen. ensnare is your best hope of dealing with the units, but realistically speaking if protoss has somehow managed to get the units youve suggested in your post, youve probably just lost the game. you cant effectively fight the units, defend all your bases and damage his at the same time. 12 reavers means he can attack up to 3 bases at once so... Ideally you do want to keep his Sair/Shuttle count from getting out of control. One way of doing this, traditionally, is by using burrowed Hydralisks in the peripheries of your bases and popping out when the Shuttle flies by. Scourge/Muta control vs. the Sairs early on as well. This build is also pretty map-specific, as in it works best on maps with islands/semi-island maps, and/or maps with a safe 3rd. Outside of that, it is very hard to take bases early on, and your first Reaver/Sair combination sort of has to do damage for you to stay in the game as Protoss. Zerg, in the meantime, wants to take a bunch of bases and make it as hard as possible for Protoss to take bases. | ||
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kogeT
Poland1408 Posts
On June 25 2019 08:49 Alpha-NP- wrote: What’s the lategame Zerg counter to mass Sair-Reaver when they have like 20 Corsairs and 12 Reavers obliterating everything? I saw the Zerg Plaguing them but it seemed like everything else died. I wonder if Zerg is forced to go Devourer? Thanks. I used Devourer and mass air vs this in my old days, worked great actually!  (when Andromea was introduced and all P were playing cors reaver) | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1073 Posts
I saw this good game of PvZ where the Protoss went mass Dark Archon. I have see. The strategy a few times but when is it viable? Is it only a viable strategy if the Zerg has Ultralisks to Mind Control? Thanks. | ||
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TT1
Canada9010 Posts
On June 26 2019 00:11 Alpha-NP- wrote: https://youtube.com/watch?v=REahhZjtWiA I saw this good game of PvZ where the Protoss went mass Dark Archon. I have see. The strategy a few times but when is it viable? Is it only a viable strategy if the Zerg has Ultralisks to Mind Control? Thanks. Mass DA/mind control is an ultra lategame strat in PvZ. When resources are running out Protoss can just start massing DAs and steal units. It puts Z on a timer to end the game and they end up taking unfavorable fights (into storm/reav/cannons/DA etc.). | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway25036 Posts
On June 25 2019 08:49 Alpha-NP- wrote: What’s the lategame Zerg counter to mass Sair-Reaver when they have like 20 Corsairs and 12 Reavers obliterating everything? I saw the Zerg Plaguing them but it seemed like everything else died. I wonder if Zerg is forced to go Devourer? Thanks. start getting air armor immediately so you have +2 when you get to hive, then use queens (for parasite+ensnare) while getting a big devourer+muta army. If you get a good engagement off with ensnare before the battle starts and acid spores thrown before the mutas fly in(and as long as you do a good job parasiting, this will be possible), 9 devourers with 12 mutas will absolutely destroy 20 sairs (assuming +2 air armor). Ensnare and devourers are both essential when fighting mass sair, if you only have ensnare they're still very powerful, and if you only have devourers all you do is force a retreat. But if you parasite his corsair army (if he hides away parasited units, uses them to scout, or kills them, keep parasiting. if he's willing to sacrifice 150/100 every time you throw a parasite off, then being dilligent about that will shrink his army considerably.  Don't be afraid to throw down parasites on 4-5 of his corsairs at the same time, that usually just makes the p concede that 'ok, you know where my army is'. And then when he does a big committed attack at an expansion sufficiently far away from his main for ensnared sairs to be unable to retreat, fly in with your anti-sair army. I mean thats the theory anyway, then you try to approximate that as much as possible in the actual game. Use hydras defensively and expand as much as possible while doing this (burrow 12 hydras in areas where drops are predictable). Get + attack for hydras. Now if he adds a DA and some templars to his army then you're out of luck, but luckily that is so demanding that few p's doing sair reaver also really invest in templar tech. | ||
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WaterSerpentM
United Kingdom94 Posts
i just had a ranked ZvT i started off as standard build(correct me if im wrong) 12 hatch expansion it went ok i guess i put a few sunkens at the expansion so they could not send in m+m i basically camped my units in front of the sunkens then they brought over a siege tank to counter the sunkens i then used my army to pick off the tank and then put them back in front of the sunkens the other player then brought another siege tank to attack my sunkens again, but instead of sending my army in to pick it off again(which worked), i just sent in my army into his siege tank + m+m, then i was basically out of units near the end i did do a good lurker drop which took out his entire mineral line i know that i didn't have enough drones on the minerals, right now my mouse/keyboard control is not that fast, i guess that improves over time if anyone wants to give me some tips of what i could/should of done that would be good here is the replay if you want to see http://bwreplays.com/d4g63 | ||
Ty2
United States1285 Posts
On July 03 2019 06:55 WaterSerpentM wrote: WSM here i just had a ranked ZvT i started off as standard build(correct me if im wrong) 12 hatch expansion it went ok i guess i put a few sunkens at the expansion so they could not send in m+m i basically camped my units in front of the sunkens then they brought over a siege tank to counter the sunkens i then used my army to pick off the tank and then put them back in front of the sunkens the other player then brought another siege tank to attack my sunkens again, but instead of sending my army in to pick it off again(which worked), i just sent in my army into his siege tank + m+m, then i was basically out of units near the end i did do a good lurker drop which took out his entire mineral line i know that i didn't have enough drones on the minerals, right now my mouse/keyboard control is not that fast, i guess that improves over time if anyone wants to give me some tips of what i could/should of done that would be good here is the replay if you want to see http://bwreplays.com/d4g63 Hi I watched the replay. Nice try but there are some things you need to work on in your opening. 1) Try to follow a build order. You should be droning until 9/9, then making an overlord. In the replay you cancel a drone at 8/9, then make an overlord at 7/9. which is far too early and economically inefficient. 2) You also hesitate to spend your money to make a drone immediately after making the overlord. It's really important to spend your money ASAP, especially in the opening few minutes. 3) You should immediately send your workers to mine minerals once they've hatched. Rallying towards minerals and anticipating the workers' completion helps with this 4) the 12 hatch is made at 12, but you have 400+ minerals. Again, emphasize getting things down ASAP, so send a drone much earlier next time. 5) it's important to scout your opponent. Ideally you send two drones; one to scout and one to expand. He could be doing any number of things you have to respond to 6) Send your first overlord to a base. This helps with scouting and your overlord isn't doing much else. 7) Generally pure hydras are very bad vs marines and medics because hydras do half damage to marines and you need an overwhelming amount in army value to defeat a marine medic army. You should open lurkers or mutas generally. 8) Beyond that your direction/plan seems very disorganized and nonsensical. It seems your major problems are having a coherent, sound game plan, some early game economy optimization, and poor unit composition. Try looking up some progamer VODs, replays, and take a look at some guides to get some good ideas going | ||
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WaterSerpentM
United Kingdom94 Posts
On July 03 2019 08:40 Ty2 wrote: Hi I watched the replay. Nice try but there are some things you need to work on in your opening. 1) Try to follow a build order. You should be droning until 9/9, then making an overlord. In the replay you cancel a drone at 8/9, then make an overlord at 7/9. which is far too early and economically inefficient. 2) You also hesitate to spend your money to make a drone immediately after making the overlord. It's really important to spend your money ASAP, especially in the opening few minutes. 3) You should immediately send your workers to mine minerals once they've hatched. Rallying towards minerals and anticipating the workers' completion helps with this 4) the 12 hatch is made at 12, but you have 400+ minerals. Again, emphasize getting things down ASAP, so send a drone much earlier next time. 5) it's important to scout your opponent. Ideally you send two drones; one to scout and one to expand. He could be doing any number of things you have to respond to 6) Send your first overlord to a base. This helps with scouting and your overlord isn't doing much else. 7) Generally pure hydras are very bad vs marines and medics because hydras do half damage to marines and you need an overwhelming amount in army value to defeat a marine medic army. You should open lurkers or mutas generally. 8) Beyond that your direction/plan seems very disorganized and nonsensical. It seems your major problems are having a coherent, sound game plan, some early game economy optimization, and poor unit composition. Try looking up some progamer VODs, replays, and take a look at some guides to get some good ideas going thanks, i have learnt much from you | ||
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jinjin5000
Korea (South)680 Posts
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Anc13nt
713 Posts
On July 03 2019 06:55 WaterSerpentM wrote: WSM here i just had a ranked ZvT i started off as standard build(correct me if im wrong) 12 hatch expansion it went ok i guess i put a few sunkens at the expansion so they could not send in m+m i basically camped my units in front of the sunkens then they brought over a siege tank to counter the sunkens i then used my army to pick off the tank and then put them back in front of the sunkens the other player then brought another siege tank to attack my sunkens again, but instead of sending my army in to pick it off again(which worked), i just sent in my army into his siege tank + m+m, then i was basically out of units near the end i did do a good lurker drop which took out his entire mineral line i know that i didn't have enough drones on the minerals, right now my mouse/keyboard control is not that fast, i guess that improves over time if anyone wants to give me some tips of what i could/should of done that would be good here is the replay if you want to see http://bwreplays.com/d4g63 Ty2 gave very good advice. I'd like to add that when your mineral count reaches around 200 at 12 supply, immediately send your drone to make natural hatchery so that when it arrives there your hatch is made faster and you don't have to send drone too early. | ||
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WaterSerpentM
United Kingdom94 Posts
On July 03 2019 09:18 Anc13nt wrote: Ty2 gave very good advice. I'd like to add that when your mineral count reaches around 200 at 12 supply, immediately send your drone to make natural hatchery so that when it arrives there your hatch is made faster and you don't have to send drone too early. ah more good advice, thanks | ||
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Counc1l
12 Posts
In all seriousness, the only responses of which I'm aware is marine scv attack with vulture into mines, or get fast mines and take a very fast 3rd base to achieve economic parity (I find this difficult with low tank count). I'm not sure if anything else works. | ||
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duplex__
Germany50 Posts
I know this has been discussed a million times, but I got confused by another post :f edit: Thanks, Liquid`Drone! | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway25036 Posts
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JonttuTonttu
51 Posts
On July 10 2019 05:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: they do take splash damage, but not from direct hits from many splash-dealing units. Tanks and archons specifically end up dealing no damage to a single burrowed unit under dark swarm, however firebats lurkers reavers spider mines will all damage units burrowed under swarm. Tanks and archons can also deal damage to the burrowed unit, as long as they are shooting at a unit close to the burrowed one where the splash damage is offshot in such a way that it ends up hitting the burrowed one. do burrowed units under dark swarm take splash damage though from scarabs, spider mines or firebats? | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France1442 Posts
On July 12 2019 22:36 JonttuTonttu wrote: do burrowed units under dark swarm take splash damage though from scarabs, spider mines or firebats? its quite weird, but i'm pretty sure the answer is yes. why? hidden exceptions I guess 0____o | ||
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Cryoc
Germany811 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway25036 Posts
I think it is conceivable, or even likely, based on how the game works, that spider mine splash damage might not damage burrowed units under dark swarm. Maybe scarabs too. But sadly it's kinda impossible to test this, and the situations where this could happen in a real game just.. don't really happen. You would basically need to have mines planted in such a way that it would be triggered by a zergling running past it, and then follow that zergling into an area where there are burrowed zerg units (and where they are not lurkers, because then the mine prolly gets shot down), and then the mine would have to detonate in such a way that it does not deal full damage to the burrowed unit-area. In that case, I actually think it's probable that the less than 100% of damage-hit would end up dealing 0. With scarabs, I guess you actually could get in scenarios where two lurkers are burrowed reasonably close by under swarm, but I've never noticed whether one lurker took less than 100 damage in such a scenario. And also while I've never used infested terrans against zerg units under swarm, I actually think they also probably deal 0 damage with the should deal 250-area damage. Lurkers and firebats are more exception-based splash damage because they don't deal reduced damage to any area. And my impression is that the damage that burrowed swarmed units end up dodging is the reduced damage. But there is also something about the explosion being offshot, and this might be a reason why scarabs, whose explosion under swarm does't look to be offshot in the manner you seem from tanks, might still deal splash. But I actually don't know the stuff that never comes up in a game and that you can't test in single player :D | ||
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