Also statistically the most imbalanced matchup at any level is like 55% on ladder, so if you lose, 19/20 times it's your fault and 1/20 is because the matchup is "imba". Quit whining about it.
Wrong math. If a MU is 55%, you win 9 out of 20 games, instead of 10 that you would if said MU was perfectly balanced. So only 10/11 you lose because it's "your fault" and 1/11 (almost 10%) because the MU is imba. That is about a loss in each of 4 Bo5s, that could eliminate the disadvantaged player in tourneys, btw.
your chance to win a "perfectly balanced" matchup against a "equally skilled" opponent is 50%, right? so if the matchup has a imbalance which gives the disadvantaged 45% and the advantaged 55%, the disadvantaged has their win chance reduced from 50% to 45%, a 10% difference yeah in my opinion, this threshold is ok if it doesn't also mean heavy strategic restriction in the matchup which gives less room for opening and progressing differently and making your strategy skill difference count which is the case in pvz (pretty much have to open a certain way), but w/e i think when looking at the design of the game in terms of the stuff you can build at start, having to go nexus first and then corsairs too is hugely restricting, that's really what bothers me the most
@prometheus. I can see why you would be frustrated having to forge FE every game or just FE in general, but zergs have even less build order/strategical options than protoss do. In zvp zergs can choose to cheese or snap your neck with certain han bang timings, but outside of that its the protoss that determines the way the matchup is played. You can go 1 gate tech or 2 gate rush or 2 gate gas or gate fe or forge fe. Zergs just have to respond to what you do, and generally that means make scourge and hydralisk again and again
in my opinion, this threshold is ok if it doesn't also mean heavy strategic restriction in the matchup which gives less room for opening and progressing differently
unfortunately this has happened across all matchups. We dont play on island maps or semi island maps or gasless naturals or really maps of any genuine distinction, all in order to keep the game 'balanced'. The results speak for themselves. Broodwar is balanced but yeah, a lot of the matchups have become frustrating and most definitely stale. Broodwar needs a balance patch not for balance, but to restart the meta and open op the possibilities of broodwar. 9 mineral 1 gas main 8 mineral 1 gas natural has been the fucking standard for years. I dont know how people do it, everything is the same, even down to something as pedantic and as trivial as a main bases resource distribution.
On May 29 2019 00:14 ProMeTheus112 wrote: kinda wishing for a new even better game to pop up in the future^^
I had similar wish back in 2010. You know what - there is no better game and there won't be. Right now I just wish there won't be such game that will divide our community any more.
On May 29 2019 00:14 ProMeTheus112 wrote: kinda wishing for a new even better game to pop up in the future^^
I had similar wish back in 2010. You know what - there is no better game and there won't be. Right now I just wish there won't be such game that will divide our community any more.
maybe mmmmh^^ i still love bw, but maybe i should just play more 3v3 again. when/if i get new comp. trying to stay away from launcher based games too, will see lul
try hosting some of the classic maps for a change of pace. lobby is hit and miss compared to ladder but hey. I'm also fiddling with my own custom balance map haha [zerg has no consume...]
I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
lol I've done that build a few times as a joke. In my experience, it's really hard to win with that build unless the protoss doesn't position goons around the main.
Edit: I think Larva did a similar build as a joke but I remember he expanded and had multiple robos (more than 2) but I think that was part of his series where he was using troll builds against people around 2k mmr.
i have tried 2 robotics reavers a bunch of times too lul its hard sometimes works didn't do it that much i couldn't say how good it is or when exactly or if its just troll
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
ASL5 PvP on Transitor and many games on youtube. But don’t bother trying to answer my question as you obviously have never seen the build.
ASL5 RO16 Snow vs Stork 2 Robo Reavers
Larva using same 2 Robo Reaver build against a decent Protoss
What do you do if you are contained on Colosseum? Feels impossible to break since the opponent has high ground advantage.
Also, what is the most solid PvP build if there is one? I know most builds can be countered but I want to know the most popular build with the fewest hard counters. I used to like to do 3 gate robo but I feel like it is economically worse than most other builds.
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
ASL5 PvP on Transitor and many games on youtube. But don’t bother trying to answer my question as you obviously have never seen the build.
the build was specifically for transistor and for stork. snow practiced the build with horang2 and their assumption from the beginning was stork would 100% play standard (skip dragoon range -> robo -> obs -> adun + 4 gates). notice how snow builds exactly 4 zealots only, its because the entire build revolves around the initial 3 reaver + 2 zealot drop and the following 2 zealot + 3 dragoon drop. the amount and composition of his units was already calculated to perfectly fit his 2 shuttle drop timing. stork cant block this because even if he somehow blocks the initial drops, the 2 robos are still producing reavers behind it and stork cant block the followup after that anyway you dont do this build anywhere else because transistor is the only map that gives you a safe fast expansion with gas and you can just sit above your ramps even without dragoon range and go for builds like this. larva stomping on amateurs with this build is meaningless. bisu stomps amateurs in pvz by building 12 scouts
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
ASL5 PvP on Transitor and many games on youtube. But don’t bother trying to answer my question as you obviously have never seen the build.
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
ASL5 PvP on Transitor and many games on youtube. But don’t bother trying to answer my question as you obviously have never seen the build.
the build was specifically for transistor and for stork. snow practiced the build with horang2 and their assumption from the beginning was stork would 100% play standard (skip dragoon range -> robo -> obs -> adun + 4 gates). notice how snow builds exactly 4 zealots only, its because the entire build revolves around the initial 3 reaver + 2 zealot drop and the following 2 zealot + 3 dragoon drop. the amount and composition of his units was already calculated to perfectly fit his 2 shuttle drop timing. stork cant block this because even if he somehow blocks the initial drops, the 2 robos are still producing reavers behind it and stork cant block the followup after that anyway you dont do this build anywhere else because transistor is the only map that gives you a safe fast expansion with gas and you can just sit above your ramps even without dragoon range and go for builds like this. larva stomping on amateurs with this build is meaningless. bisu stomps amateurs in pvz by building 12 scouts
Very interesting. I am wondering if the build can be viable on Colosseum then.
On May 31 2019 08:57 Anc13nt wrote:Also, what is the most solid PvP build if there is one? I know most builds can be countered but I want to know the most popular build with the fewest hard counters. I used to like to do 3 gate robo but I feel like it is economically worse than most other builds.
1 gate robo ob reavers then probably expand but depends^^ you'd expand with 1 or 2 or 3 gates + robo then
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
ASL5 PvP on Transitor and many games on youtube. But don’t bother trying to answer my question as you obviously have never seen the build.
the build was specifically for transistor and for stork. snow practiced the build with horang2 and their assumption from the beginning was stork would 100% play standard (skip dragoon range -> robo -> obs -> adun + 4 gates). notice how snow builds exactly 4 zealots only, its because the entire build revolves around the initial 3 reaver + 2 zealot drop and the following 2 zealot + 3 dragoon drop. the amount and composition of his units was already calculated to perfectly fit his 2 shuttle drop timing. stork cant block this because even if he somehow blocks the initial drops, the 2 robos are still producing reavers behind it and stork cant block the followup after that anyway you dont do this build anywhere else because transistor is the only map that gives you a safe fast expansion with gas and you can just sit above your ramps even without dragoon range and go for builds like this. larva stomping on amateurs with this build is meaningless. bisu stomps amateurs in pvz by building 12 scouts
Very interesting. I am wondering if the build can be viable on Colosseum then.
colosseum from memory has much wider entrances and therefore youd still be vulnerable to more traditional pvp builds. things like 3/4 gate, 2 gate robos etc arent even attempted on transistor whereas theyd still work on colosseum
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
ASL5 PvP on Transitor and many games on youtube. But don’t bother trying to answer my question as you obviously have never seen the build.
the build was specifically for transistor and for stork. snow practiced the build with horang2 and their assumption from the beginning was stork would 100% play standard (skip dragoon range -> robo -> obs -> adun + 4 gates). notice how snow builds exactly 4 zealots only, its because the entire build revolves around the initial 3 reaver + 2 zealot drop and the following 2 zealot + 3 dragoon drop. the amount and composition of his units was already calculated to perfectly fit his 2 shuttle drop timing. stork cant block this because even if he somehow blocks the initial drops, the 2 robos are still producing reavers behind it and stork cant block the followup after that anyway you dont do this build anywhere else because transistor is the only map that gives you a safe fast expansion with gas and you can just sit above your ramps even without dragoon range and go for builds like this. larva stomping on amateurs with this build is meaningless. bisu stomps amateurs in pvz by building 12 scouts
Very interesting. I am wondering if the build can be viable on Colosseum then.
colosseum from memory has much wider entrances and therefore youd still be vulnerable to more traditional pvp builds. things like 3/4 gate, 2 gate robos etc arent even attempted on transistor whereas theyd still work on colosseum
Sounds true. I was thinking maybe protoss could abuse the high-ground to defend against standard openings but the entrance is probably large enough for enemy protoss to circumvent the high-ground (especially if the dragoons don't have range). It's probably also easier to attack high-ground on Colosseum since there's no ramp in the way.
On May 31 2019 04:54 Alpha-NP- wrote: I have seen Protoss players use a build for 2 robos mass Reavers in PvP a few times. Anyone know anything more about this build? (When to use it, what are the timings, and the purpose). Thanks.
Provide even one link of this happening outside of absolute meme games.
ASL5 PvP on Transitor and many games on youtube. But don’t bother trying to answer my question as you obviously have never seen the build.
I got totally embarrassed TvP against 2 robo reavers on ladder the other day. I thought the guy was trolling me because of the MMR disparity, but it's good to know that even Flash can lose to such a build.
EPT
