During the time of the six dragons, many Protoss players played aggressively from two bases with seven, eight, or nine gateways. They often took a third base as they attacked. Against this kind of two base aggression, it can be very effective to drop when the Protoss moves out. You either get a good counter attack that can easily snipe a nexus, or, you prevent him from being aggressive, which is his plan, having invested so much in an army, and taken such a late third base.

I don't have sources on me right now but I've seen Bisu lose to this versus Shine, Hero, and others.

XenOsky

Chile2356 Posts

March 03 2019 03:49 GMT

#8324

During the time of the six dragons, many Protoss players played aggressively from two bases with seven, eight, or nine gateways.

Isbthere a particular game that comes to mind? I would like to watch 8 9 gate toss played during that era.

Anc13nt

1557 Posts

March 03 2019 05:20 GMT

#8325

On March 01 2019 14:36 Alpha-NP- wrote:
In ZvP is there a timing or a Protoss unit composition that Overlord drops are good against?

If out of position. Overlord drops are good against sair/reaver but if you are unlucky and get caught by sairs, that can be disastrous. I would assume Overlord drops are pretty good against mass goon comp since goons are really bad while fighting up ramps and because they often will drop lings/lurkers with dark swarm which are really strong against dragoons.

Anc13nt

1557 Posts

March 03 2019 05:22 GMT

#8326

Are there any cool midgame ZvP builds besides the usual 5-6 hatch hydra style?

Edit: Also, I'd like to ask for tips on how to use 2 base goon reaver comp in PvZ, I notice it's a lot more meta nowadays (at least on Whiteout).

Dazed.

Canada3301 Posts

March 03 2019 23:50 GMT

#8327

On March 03 2019 14:22 Anc13nt wrote:
Are there any cool midgame ZvP builds besides the usual 5-6 hatch hydra style?

Edit: Also, I'd like to ask for tips on how to use 2 base goon reaver comp in PvZ, I notice it's a lot more meta nowadays (at least on Whiteout).

theres 4 hatch before gas, playing 5-6 super campy, opening 5 but with a really quick 2nd gas and switching into a muta-scourge timing, or just opening up 3 hatch and going mutalisk-- tricky but viable. 3 hatch den into a fake bust, macro off it and tech lurker.

Most styles and compositions are viable in zvp its more a question of adaption to what one another is doing. I.e you could play lurker ling and tech hive quickly one game, that would be appropriate, and in another constantly going for lurker hydra drop.

edit: if toss skips corsair 3 hatch lurker is viable for instance.

Rodya

546 Posts

March 04 2019 00:40 GMT

#8328

Where are the optimal spots to place turrets in tvp on medusa for defending an early reaver drop? How many turrets do you build? The 10 position in particular is what I'm wondering about.

kogeT

Poland2042 Posts

March 04 2019 14:19 GMT

#8329

On March 04 2019 09:40 Rodya wrote:
Where are the optimal spots to place turrets in tvp on medusa for defending an early reaver drop? How many turrets do you build? The 10 position in particular is what I'm wondering about.

The more you have to cover the closer to your base you build the turrets. So in medusa example I would stick to 3-4 turrets max and rely on units to defend against drop. Exampel could be: 1 turret on high ground, 1 around CC minerals, 1 around factory and 1 in nat. Or even better, I would go for fast goliath or wraith because it really makes little sense to build 5-6 turrets to cover everything.

5-6 turrets on the other hand makes sense if you went for very fast 3 base that is possible on medusa.. then you rely on single factory tanks and make a turret ring with your extra minerals. So it all depends on yours and opponents strategy.

Dazed.

Canada3301 Posts

March 04 2019 21:44 GMT

#8330

how should i approach 1 base pvz differently if I am on a low ground main map [with a ramp], compared to a map like fs?

ProMeTheus112

France2027 Posts

March 05 2019 00:01 GMT

#8331

most P would tell you to not play 1 base I guess?
i have played maybe over 90% of my pvz doing one base openings, but its so hard to give an answer. On this type of map I would experiment with more 2 gates openings and reaver openings. Maybe also goon based stuff but i'm still not sure how well that works or doesn't :D

Dazed.

Canada3301 Posts

March 07 2019 15:56 GMT

#8332

Whats a pvt build that allows me to put pressure on a terran, possibly snipe a tank and snowball the game a bit, while still being macro focused?

evilfatsh1t

Australia8846 Posts

March 07 2019 16:59 GMT

#8333

1 gate fe vs 1 rax fe?
you only get to snipe tanks if terran pretty much lets you though

ProMeTheus112

France2027 Posts

March 07 2019 18:55 GMT

#8334

Actively trying to snipe a tank or such, I would say a shuttle reaver type of thing. It's very down to micro that a good terran may prevent you from getting to snipe a tank and instead take something from you, since these have long range and instant pretty big attack. If I want to be agressive to T I like to do forward gate 1-2 zealot and play macro from there. I used to do more 2 gates goon stuff which is also interesting but it's good to shake it up because 2 gates goons can be countered by siege expo and some other things.

Dazed.

Canada3301 Posts

March 08 2019 01:01 GMT

#8335

On March 08 2019 03:55 ProMeTheus112 wrote:
Actively trying to snipe a tank or such, I would say a shuttle reaver type of thing. It's very down to micro that a good terran may prevent you from getting to snipe a tank and instead take something from you, since these have long range and instant pretty big attack. If I want to be agressive to T I like to do forward gate 1-2 zealot and play macro from there. I used to do more 2 gates goon stuff which is also interesting but it's good to shake it up because 2 gates goons can be countered by siege expo and some other things.

Alright, thanks.

On that forward gate issue, where is the line between all-insh and just a simple forward gate? is a forward 9 'cheese' but a forward ten isnt? etc

ProMeTheus112

France2027 Posts

March 08 2019 16:26 GMT

#8336

I wouldn't call a single 9 gate cheese. Most of the time I make it at 10 but if I want even faster 9, I think I've seen pro level Ps do that sometimes. Another thing you can shake up. An example on FS : you can make your pylon up against the cliff at 8, make probe go back to minerals, and make it go down cliff by 10 to make gate. Or you can do pylon @nat make it mine a mineral then make gate at 9 carry back minerals. Or whatever other method like scouting immediately at pylon 8 then using another probe. Is it worth sacrificing a bit more economy to make the gate forward and 9? I'm sure it is sometimes it just depends how vulnerable T start is to early zeal. Anyway a single gate at 9 isn't a huge economy slowdown so I definitely wouldn't call it all-in, all-in would be 2 gates 8-9 or 9-10 and then make many zealots and try to win now. So I mean if I make a single gate 9 I'm just trying to get an extra SCV or marine kill or more but not usually win right there although some T can lose to well microed few early zealots. Sometimes you can't kill much or anything but you get to see stuff, ofc better not lose these early zealots only for info. May be able to slow stuff down too, even pylon machine shop location, they might need to lift factory but if they do you could keep walking under it etc ^^ (often they reply with making 1 vulture as soon as factory finishes which wasn't necessarily their plan, but good Ts can manage with only marines sometimes with the building simcity or scv help etc)
ofc you can also use that forward gate as wall at nat next

Anc13nt

1557 Posts

March 09 2019 02:59 GMT

#8337

Never really thought about this (it's a bit of an odd question tbh) until now but how should one adjust their game play when latency/tr is bad? I am zerg but I play all 3 races so any help is appreciated.

Jealous

10313 Posts

March 09 2019 04:06 GMT

#8338

On March 09 2019 11:59 Anc13nt wrote:
Never really thought about this (it's a bit of an odd question tbh) until now but how should one adjust their game play when latency/tr is bad? I am zerg but I play all 3 races so any help is appreciated.

Go Lurker instead of Mutalisk.

Luddite

United States2315 Posts

March 10 2019 19:05 GMT

#8339

If it's a PvZ game where the P is building up off 2 bases for a midgame push and they've been saving HT for a while, do they typically get the energy upgrade and have enough energy to cast 3 psi storms from each HT? Or does it just depend on the game?

GunSlinger

614 Posts

March 10 2019 19:21 GMT

#8340

On March 11 2019 04:05 Luddite wrote:
If it's a PvZ game where the P is building up off 2 bases for a midgame push and they've been saving HT for a while, do they typically get the energy upgrade and have enough energy to cast 3 psi storms from each HT? Or does it just depend on the game?

Of course, the definite answer is always "it depends on the game". But really, if you are limited to only 2 gas then Khaydarin amulet is relatively expensive at 150 gas. Plus it takes a while to complete.
Sometimes that 150 gas is better used on building an HT if it is a really fast-paced, scrappy game. You also have to consider that Zerg units generally have a fairly easy time sniping HTs as they move across the map. So if you are relying on these storms to do massive damage (as you must since you have invested so much gas); your mid-game push could simply fall apart due to a group of Hydras/Lings/Mutas sniping the HTs before they are able to reach their destination and cast their spells.

As a rule, I would suggest researching Khaydarin after you secure a third gas. Once you become comfortable with that, explore researching it on 2 gas to see if it is worth it for you.