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On October 10 2017 18:12 Golgotha wrote:
As someone who has not learned pvp yet, can someone tell me which build was stronger during the asl group c? Bisus gate robo gate into reaver build or shuttles gate nexus gate gate build? I think shuttle build is better, but Bisu was too good in the engagement. For us noobs we should learn shuttle's build first right? Did shuttle go gate, core, nexus, robo, gate 2x? Or did he skip the robo all together? If he skipped the robo, when is he supposed to get it? Both of them didn't go for obs, is that less important in pvp?
Bisu's BO is way better.
Learn that, learn how ti micro reavers.
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On October 10 2017 20:53 ajmbek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 18:12 Golgotha wrote:
As someone who has not learned pvp yet, can someone tell me which build was stronger during the asl group c? Bisus gate robo gate into reaver build or shuttles gate nexus gate gate build? I think shuttle build is better, but Bisu was too good in the engagement. For us noobs we should learn shuttle's build first right? Did shuttle go gate, core, nexus, robo, gate 2x? Or did he skip the robo all together? If he skipped the robo, when is he supposed to get it? Both of them didn't go for obs, is that less important in pvp? Bisu's BO is way better. Learn that, learn how ti micro reavers.
thank you very much. I will learn this. but what do you do if they also go for reaver drops? how should I defend against it? keeping 4 goons in my base? that's a lot of goons that early on to keep in my base, so im not sure how to best defend against reavers. thank you.
and isn't it better to get fast obs first? to defend against everything and react accordingly?
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On October 10 2017 21:05 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 20:53 ajmbek wrote:On October 10 2017 18:12 Golgotha wrote:
As someone who has not learned pvp yet, can someone tell me which build was stronger during the asl group c? Bisus gate robo gate into reaver build or shuttles gate nexus gate gate build? I think shuttle build is better, but Bisu was too good in the engagement. For us noobs we should learn shuttle's build first right? Did shuttle go gate, core, nexus, robo, gate 2x? Or did he skip the robo all together? If he skipped the robo, when is he supposed to get it? Both of them didn't go for obs, is that less important in pvp? Bisu's BO is way better. Learn that, learn how ti micro reavers. thank you very much. I will learn this. but what do you do if they also go for reaver drops? how should I defend against it? keeping 4 goons in my base? that's a lot of goons that early on to keep in my base, so im not sure how to best defend against reavers. thank you. and isn't it better to get fast obs first? to defend against everything and react accordingly?
Well, PvP is really much about feeling. You have to scout with probe and then use a bit of army pressure to know what your opponent is going.
Generally reaver is good vs all the other openings, that is why this is the standard. The obz is good, and you have to go obz first if you feel dt, but generally you go shuttle, obz, reaver, or shuttle reaver obz.
If your opponent goes river too it is 99% about micro and finding good angles. If you will keep goons in main depends on maps, terrain, starting positions and timing. But beeing the agressor solvs the problem :p
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thanks ajmbek. I will play more pvp from now on. i usually don't like mirrors but pvp seems fun since reavers are my favorite.
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@Golgotha: Just want to put it out there that I agree with ajmbek. While the Gateway-centric build orders may be easier to perform and might even be more economical, they are also dependent on you having a good read on your opponent, good minimap awareness. They are on average more risky than Robotics builds as well, as you delay your Observer by a while and thus don't get a concrete read on your opponent's build/position, and also can't park Observers in key areas to catch Shuttle or Army movement. In general, Robotics builds are the way to go for standard safe play.
In that game in particular, I think Bisu adapted his build to the situation. He added the extra Gateways going up to 3 instead of going for a Nexus of his own - the commentators call it a "han bang" or "one time" attack, meaning it was a timing attack before Shuttle got to use his stronger economy off 2 Nexus and the additional Gateways he constructed, while Bisu's Reavers and Dragoons should be enough to overcome Shuttle. It was perhaps more of a blow-out than it should have been, but Bisu is just very good (even though he made a mistake towards the end).
A good standard opening that allows you to be safe and flexible is 1 Gate Reaver expand. You can change your plan by additng Gateways to do a han bang, or to defend against high-Gateway count pressure; you can also get Observer before Reaver if you feel threatened by DT, although this is not always necessary. In short, it is a great build which gives you detection, intel, Reaver, and potentially a decent Nexus timing. I would recommend playing with this opening, and trying to see how others try to play vs. it and then try to figure out how to adapt the build to counter what the opponent is doing. GLHF!
Note: As always, want to note that I am not an incredibly strong player but I think that the above is correct. If anyone has any additions/corrections, they are always welcome.
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I'll practice one gate reaver from now on. So that's basically gate, core, robo, bay, gate and attack! Make shuttle as soon as robo finishes and start the bay as well. All the while pumping goons.
1. But in this scenario without obs, how do I defend against reaver drops? Any techniques I need to learn other than grab probes and send them to the natural? Not sure if I should have one goon left behind or more.
What about pylon blocking the back of my minerals on fighting spirit? Would that block the reaver shot?
2. In pvp early game, Bisu went 2 zealots first and then goon. Shuttle went one zealot and then goon. Why? What is the reasoning behind the first zealot and any more? Feel like they are a waste in pvp without speed since goons can kite.
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On October 11 2017 11:06 Golgotha wrote:
I'll practice one gate reaver from now on. So that's basically gate, core, robo, bay, gate and attack! Make shuttle as soon as robo finishes and start the bay as well. All the while pumping goons.
1. But in this scenario without obs, how do I defend against reaver drops? Any techniques I need to learn other than grab probes and send them to the natural? Not sure if I should have one goon left behind or more.
What about pylon blocking the back of my minerals on fighting spirit? Would that block the reaver shot?
2. In pvp early game, Bisu went 2 zealots first and then goon. Shuttle went one zealot and then goon. Why? What is the reasoning behind the first zealot and any more? Feel like they are a waste in pvp without speed since goons can kite.
You should still get an Observatory. As ajmbek said, it's normally Shuttle/Obs/Reaver or Shuttle/Reaver/Obs. In this variant that aims to get an expansion earlier, you go Reaver/Obs/Shuttle or Reaver/Shuttle/Obs if you decide to harass and feel safe - however, in general I think you should build your Nexus before Shuttle, and it is possible that a second Reaver before Shuttle. I think that this depends on the situation (what your opponent is building, what map it is, etc.) If you're not being scouted, you can delay Dragoon Range to make your Robotics faster. In general, there is no reason not to keep a couple Dragoons in the natural/main until you are getting attacked or want to attack yourself - I just keep them hotkeyed and when I get pressured at the front, I a-move them to my natural. If I'm moving out and want to leave some defenses, I just leave them.
You can Pylon block behind the minerals, and in fact I often do. However, that just means they will have to drop outside the block. I am not 100% sure if it is guaranteed to block all Scarabs though, as Scarabs can even hop over minerals in some cases. It simply increases the chance of it glitching, I think.
For the Reaver-expand build, 2 Zealots is standard simply because you can afford them. There is no reason for you not to build them, as they will potentially help you secure your expansion with what is actually a relatively low unit count. You want your Gateway to be almost non-stop active - Zealot (13), Zealot (before Cyber finishes), Dragoon, Dragoons afterward. Furthermore, the first Zealot is useful against 2 Gate builds. If you build Cyber before Zealot, you only have time for 1 Zealot at most before Cyber finishes. If you build Cyber after first Zealot (safest), you can have two shortly after it finishes. On ladder, when I am playing PvP and am not sure if I am going to get cheesed or 2 Gated or whatever, I make 2 Zealots before Cybernetics but I'm not sure if this is correct; I can attest that it has helped save me a few times vs. 9-9 Gate center, but perhaps better players will simply use their first Dragoon to micro them off if need be. Anyway, because Shuttle was going for 3 Gate, he probably felt safe not going for the second Zealot because he would soon have a lot of Gateway units and a 1 Zealot difference for him would not be enough to counteract the walking distance vs. production time of his first Gateway. At least, that's my take on it.
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On October 10 2017 20:51 ajmbek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2017 11:57 Zealgoon wrote:
Is there a way to determine mining efficiency of individual mineral patches on a given map other than spending 4 hours testing one by one? There is make the same amount of probes/scvs/drones of the minerals path you have. Send all of them to mine from a single path. Don't let them return to nexus, instead press stop and wait for all to have minerals. Send them to mine again. Select all and press return cargo. Observe. In a few laps you will see the difference. For more precise testing just look at how much minerals are missing from paths after a longer time.
Great idea, thanks a lot 
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On October 11 2017 11:06 Golgotha wrote:
I'll practice one gate reaver from now on. So that's basically gate, core, robo, bay, gate and attack! Make shuttle as soon as robo finishes and start the bay as well. All the while pumping goons.
1. But in this scenario without obs, how do I defend against reaver drops? Any techniques I need to learn other than grab probes and send them to the natural? Not sure if I should have one goon left behind or more.
What about pylon blocking the back of my minerals on fighting spirit? Would that block the reaver shot?
2. In pvp early game, Bisu went 2 zealots first and then goon. Shuttle went one zealot and then goon. Why? What is the reasoning behind the first zealot and any more? Feel like they are a waste in pvp without speed since goons can kite.
1 gate robo is standard but the build is standard up to robo only.
bay vs observatory as your next building is situational and a bit of a gamble, like with all mirror matchups.
if you build bay first you MUST get shuttle reaver combo + speed asap and pressure the opponent, either with 1 reaver or by waiting for 2 if you know he hasnt gone dt.
if the opponent matched your build then you can engage and rely on micro or just expand and look to harrass with reavers, otherwise if he went obs first you have the advantage of having the shuttle whilst he has defenders advantage without shuttle (attacker is supposed to have the advantage in this scenario). if he went dt you can attack to force the dt to defend or you can defend yourself by stalling till observers by blocking ramps and send your reaver to harrass (usually the better response).
as for defending reaver harrass, its the same as above except you flip the perspectives. you have to know what the differences are with each build order and understand who has attacking priority.
typically placing 4 or so dragoons spaced out not too far around the edges of your base is enough to deter most harrass. if he finds a way in then react as fast as possible and maynard probes while destroying the shuttle and reaver. if you do this then you can usually just run straight to his front door and win the game or gain an advantage.
defending without dragoons in your base (ie. you need to have them positioned at the entrance of your base or your nat) is not too difficult either. build pylons around the edges or if you can, outside your base where shuttles usually fly over and maynard probes. you can pull dragoons back to def or you can engage with his units in front of you knowing that his reaver is not with his army.
theres a lot of different variations with pvp though, so id suggest watching a lot of games and playing a lot.
reaver builds are considered standard but dt and gate builds are used equally as much and theres a lot of subtle differences and timings that you need to understand as the builds are like a scissors paper rock kind of game.
dt forge expand (this was my personal favourite as its not particularly weak to any build), 3 gate robo, 3 gate expand, 4 gate, 2 gate robo, 1/2gate dt etc. are all viable assuming you know how to play react against whichever build you face.
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On October 11 2017 11:06 Golgotha wrote:
I'll practice one gate reaver from now on. So that's basically gate, core, robo, bay, gate and attack! Make shuttle as soon as robo finishes and start the bay as well. All the while pumping goons.
1. But in this scenario without obs, how do I defend against reaver drops? Any techniques I need to learn other than grab probes and send them to the natural? Not sure if I should have one goon left behind or more.
What about pylon blocking the back of my minerals on fighting spirit? Would that block the reaver shot?
2. In pvp early game, Bisu went 2 zealots first and then goon. Shuttle went one zealot and then goon. Why? What is the reasoning behind the first zealot and any more? Feel like they are a waste in pvp without speed since goons can kite.
2. There are 2 reasons why you make early zealots in PvP.
a) harassment and scauting: a zealot allows you to try to put a bit of pressure witch can work if the opponent is not making a zealot or if the ramp is wide. There was a time i was going gate on 9 in PvP every game just to have the first zealot out as soon as possible. (you are looking to kill probes) It works well in combination with manner pilon.
b) to tech faster: zealots does not cost gas, so if you make 1-2 of them instead of dragons you save 50-100 gas.
1. Obzes are not the way to go do defend reaver drops. Use pilons, put them in a ring around the base, eventualy even 1 or 2 outside the base. On FS if you can put 1 pilon in your 3rd... on piton there is enought space in the main. Put your main at F2 and natural at F3 so you can easily transfer probes fast.
When (and if) you attack bring all your dragons together! If he is harassing you during this time just transfer probes and by the time he puts again the reaver in the shuttle you start killing him.
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On October 11 2017 13:37 evilfatsh1t wrote:
if you build bay first you MUST get shuttle reaver combo + speed asap and pressure the opponent, either with 1 reaver or by waiting for 2 if you know he hasnt gone dt.
I disagree. Reaver-expand does not get either of those things (Shuttle or Speed), yet can open Support Bay-first. It depends on what you know of the opponent's build and what you are trying to achieve.
On October 11 2017 16:09 ajmbek wrote:
1. Obzes are not the way to go do defend reaver drops. Use pilons, put them in a ring around the base, eventualy even 1 or 2 outside the base.
Agree/Disagree. In general, yes, Pylons are much better for spotting Shuttle. The advice you give about Pylon at 3rd (I put it in the other adjacent 3rd on FS as well), and the ring in your main, are of course correct. However, there are two spaces where you need Observer to have a decent chance of spotting Shuttle: behind your natural and to the side of the 3rd minerals (on FS). Of course you do not need these until you take either of those bases, so in effect you are correct - at the very start, you do not need Observers to spot Reaver harass. However, it is helpful to get one around the time you get your Nexus in Reaver-expand because you do need a concrete scout to know if you have to prepare for frontal attack, drop, or something else.
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Hello, I am a new Terran player and would like to ask a few simple questions about some annoying things in TvP matchup, and assume Terran is doing siege expand (hope they are not too stupid)
1-How should I response against pylon blocking factory add-on? Is it ok to relocate factory even if my opponent aggressively send units to my base?
2-Should I always wall-in, I mean is it possible to defend against proxy gate + probe haras etc. with correct play?
3-Is getting a single wraith for defend against some reaver haras in the early/mid game is okay?I feel like on Fightning Spirit even if I place turrets on my natural expo it is easy for protoss to come and drop reaver due to cliffs near base.
Thank you.
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Quick question, did a bit of searching and looking around, whats the most common pvz build order with gateway forge? I've seen 10 gate 12 forge, 10 gate 16 forge, 10 gate gas core nexus forge, which one is the most safe or should I play more reactionary to what zerg has opened with?
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On October 11 2017 23:06 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 13:37 evilfatsh1t wrote:
if you build bay first you MUST get shuttle reaver combo + speed asap and pressure the opponent, either with 1 reaver or by waiting for 2 if you know he hasnt gone dt. I disagree. Reaver-expand does not get either of those things (Shuttle or Speed), yet can open Support Bay-first. It depends on what you know of the opponent's build and what you are trying to achieve. Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 16:09 ajmbek wrote:
1. Obzes are not the way to go do defend reaver drops. Use pilons, put them in a ring around the base, eventualy even 1 or 2 outside the base. Agree/Disagree. In general, yes, Pylons are much better for spotting Shuttle. The advice you give about Pylon at 3rd (I put it in the other adjacent 3rd on FS as well), and the ring in your main, are of course correct. However, there are two spaces where you need Observer to have a decent chance of spotting Shuttle: behind your natural and to the side of the 3rd minerals (on FS). Of course you do not need these until you take either of those bases, so in effect you are correct - at the very start, you do not need Observers to spot Reaver harass. However, it is helpful to get one around the time you get your Nexus in Reaver-expand because you do need a concrete scout to know if you have to prepare for frontal attack, drop, or something else.
is reaver expand a thing? i dont watch sc nowadays but reaver expand was never a thing when i still played/watched
why open with support bay only to relinquish the early reaver timing and sit back and def?
might as well go nexus first and then follow up with reaver, it would still allow you to defend any other build that didnt also rush support bay.
reaver expand would also just straight up lose to dt as you cant pressure without the shuttle nor do you have observers fast enough
and i would imagine if the opponent also rushed support bay with shuttle and speed you will get outmicroed in engage or have to deal with harrass with no retaliation of your own because you dont have speed
also when i say reaver expand im assuming its literally as you said, you get support bay first but dont get the shuttle or speed upgrade. if you are talking about a scenario where you expand after you get both of those things, then that is a standard reaver rush opening
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On October 12 2017 08:19 Jedi2 wrote:
Hello, I am a new Terran player and would like to ask a few simple questions about some annoying things in TvP matchup, and assume Terran is doing siege expand (hope they are not too stupid)
1-How should I response against pylon blocking factory add-on? Is it ok to relocate factory even if my opponent aggressively send units to my base?
2-Should I always wall-in, I mean is it possible to defend against proxy gate + probe haras etc. with correct play?
3-Is getting a single wraith for defend against some reaver haras in the early/mid game is okay?I feel like on Fightning Spirit even if I place turrets on my natural expo it is easy for protoss to come and drop reaver due to cliffs near base.
Thank you.
From my perspective (protoss player)
Unless the factory is in a weird place, just lift it and build the addon elsewhere? The only thing i could see this being effective is blocking it on a ramp. It will give vision and delay an addon but it also costs 100 minerals and will die sooner or later.
you dont always have to wall in but walling in will really prevent early zealot harass. some terrans have good supply and barracks positioning so they can just walk through the gap where zealots can't. try this - practice it because if you never do you'll never learn! its okay if a zealot does some damage in your games because you'll learn next game how to deal with it better.
a wraith is probably not really needed, we only see it on maps like gold rush due to the map architecture. Turrets are usually the way terrans go. If you scout the protoss and have a feeling he's doing something strange it's fine to build a ring of turrets early on. Terran can't really push in the early game unless you're going for a FD or some timing attack. Just sit back, defend as the turrets will prevent reavers, DTs (somewhat) and later - recalls. (you'll need to triple up your turrets. Early shuttles are your biggest fear, and when you can plant a few turrets to keep you safe and focus on getting your tech and ground defense up, you'll be far more confident when you go for your 3rd base. Remember, it's very very difficult for Protoss to break a well defended terran.
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On October 12 2017 10:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2017 23:06 Jealous wrote:On October 11 2017 13:37 evilfatsh1t wrote:
if you build bay first you MUST get shuttle reaver combo + speed asap and pressure the opponent, either with 1 reaver or by waiting for 2 if you know he hasnt gone dt. I disagree. Reaver-expand does not get either of those things (Shuttle or Speed), yet can open Support Bay-first. It depends on what you know of the opponent's build and what you are trying to achieve. On October 11 2017 16:09 ajmbek wrote:
1. Obzes are not the way to go do defend reaver drops. Use pilons, put them in a ring around the base, eventualy even 1 or 2 outside the base. Agree/Disagree. In general, yes, Pylons are much better for spotting Shuttle. The advice you give about Pylon at 3rd (I put it in the other adjacent 3rd on FS as well), and the ring in your main, are of course correct. However, there are two spaces where you need Observer to have a decent chance of spotting Shuttle: behind your natural and to the side of the 3rd minerals (on FS). Of course you do not need these until you take either of those bases, so in effect you are correct - at the very start, you do not need Observers to spot Reaver harass. However, it is helpful to get one around the time you get your Nexus in Reaver-expand because you do need a concrete scout to know if you have to prepare for frontal attack, drop, or something else. is reaver expand a thing? i dont watch sc nowadays but reaver expand was never a thing when i still played/watched why open with support bay only to relinquish the early reaver timing and sit back and def? might as well go nexus first and then follow up with reaver, it would still allow you to defend any other build that didnt also rush support bay. reaver expand would also just straight up lose to dt as you cant pressure without the shuttle nor do you have observers fast enough and i would imagine if the opponent also rushed support bay with shuttle and speed you will get outmicroed in engage or have to deal with harrass with no retaliation of your own because you dont have speed also when i say reaver expand im assuming its literally as you said, you get support bay first but dont get the shuttle or speed upgrade. if you are talking about a scenario where you expand after you get both of those things, then that is a standard reaver rush opening
The reaver expand is a good and viable BO.
I can't imagine you beeing really good while ignoring this opening.
It allows you to hold reaver pressure while expanding faster cause you cut the shuttle.
I do not know why you have that idea that shuttle speed is that important. It is an upgrade that we see like one time in 10 or more games (counting only games with shuttle openings). At progamer level it is much more a PvT thing than a PvP.
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On October 12 2017 08:19 Jedi2 wrote:
Hello, I am a new Terran player and would like to ask a few simple questions about some annoying things in TvP matchup, and assume Terran is doing siege expand (hope they are not too stupid)
1-How should I response against pylon blocking factory add-on? Is it ok to relocate factory even if my opponent aggressively send units to my base?
2-Should I always wall-in, I mean is it possible to defend against proxy gate + probe haras etc. with correct play?
3-Is getting a single wraith for defend against some reaver haras in the early/mid game is okay?I feel like on Fightning Spirit even if I place turrets on my natural expo it is easy for protoss to come and drop reaver due to cliffs near base.
Thank you.
Do not lift the factory! Never.
He can use the probe to block it for very long and he can start one more pilon eventualy. Use marines and 1-2 scvs to kill the pilon faster. Eventualy you can make 1 vulture, if there is zealot pressure.
2. Not always. Pro's mostly don't do that. But at beginner level is a really useful thing. I suggest you to do that almost always (on all the maps where it is ok)
3. Wraiths are bad and expensive. If your problem is vision lift your e-bay, that will give a bit better range to your turrets. If it is reaction time just keep a sige tank in range.
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On October 12 2017 12:29 ajmbek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2017 10:40 evilfatsh1t wrote:On October 11 2017 23:06 Jealous wrote:On October 11 2017 13:37 evilfatsh1t wrote:
if you build bay first you MUST get shuttle reaver combo + speed asap and pressure the opponent, either with 1 reaver or by waiting for 2 if you know he hasnt gone dt. I disagree. Reaver-expand does not get either of those things (Shuttle or Speed), yet can open Support Bay-first. It depends on what you know of the opponent's build and what you are trying to achieve. On October 11 2017 16:09 ajmbek wrote:
1. Obzes are not the way to go do defend reaver drops. Use pilons, put them in a ring around the base, eventualy even 1 or 2 outside the base. Agree/Disagree. In general, yes, Pylons are much better for spotting Shuttle. The advice you give about Pylon at 3rd (I put it in the other adjacent 3rd on FS as well), and the ring in your main, are of course correct. However, there are two spaces where you need Observer to have a decent chance of spotting Shuttle: behind your natural and to the side of the 3rd minerals (on FS). Of course you do not need these until you take either of those bases, so in effect you are correct - at the very start, you do not need Observers to spot Reaver harass. However, it is helpful to get one around the time you get your Nexus in Reaver-expand because you do need a concrete scout to know if you have to prepare for frontal attack, drop, or something else. is reaver expand a thing? i dont watch sc nowadays but reaver expand was never a thing when i still played/watched why open with support bay only to relinquish the early reaver timing and sit back and def? might as well go nexus first and then follow up with reaver, it would still allow you to defend any other build that didnt also rush support bay. reaver expand would also just straight up lose to dt as you cant pressure without the shuttle nor do you have observers fast enough and i would imagine if the opponent also rushed support bay with shuttle and speed you will get outmicroed in engage or have to deal with harass with no retaliation of your own because you dont have speed also when i say reaver expand im assuming its literally as you said, you get support bay first but dont get the shuttle or speed upgrade. if you are talking about a scenario where you expand after you get both of those things, then that is a standard reaver rush opening The reaver expand is a good and viable BO. I can't imagine you beeing really good while ignoring this opening. It allows you to hold reaver pressure while expanding faster cause you cut the shuttle. I do not know why you have that idea that shuttle speed is that important. It is an upgrade that we see like one time in 10 or more games (counting only games with shuttle openings). At progamer level it is much more a PvT thing than a PvP.
because i havent seen any game of this build, explain how opening support bay and then getting a nexus is in anyway better than what the opponent is doing except he has much stronger pressure because of shuttle and his nexus is not that much later than yours. i would legit like to see a game where a pro is trying to hold his nexus with a shuttleless reaver whilst the opponent comes at him WITH a shuttle. i would imagine your shuttle comes out at best, when the opponent is at your doorstep which theoretically allows you to hold, but he has all the map control and the opportunity to harass or drop into your base whilst you have to wait for your expo to kick in.
if you want the faster expo, open with the nexus and then get a robo support bay after. it defends the exact same timing push assuming you are willingly playing blind by skipping observers and you have no intention of harassing with shuttles.
i cannot see any reason why you would follow up a reaver rush build with an immediate nexus and no shuttle or speed upgrade. like what is the point? if you want to defend you could open with observers and then go reaver whilst skipping shuttle and defend the exact same way except at least you dont straight up lose to a dt rush as well.
also unless things have changed, shuttle speed was a must in every pvp game.
good luck trying to reveal vision with shuttle/moving across map with shuttle or trying to run away after a harass attempt with shuttle that has no speed. you are gifting away 1 or 2 reavers and a shuttle for like...nothing
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Been doing pretty well in PvP! I had an awkward moment though against a DT opening. I saw the citadel and so I knew he had to be going DT most likely. So I just made a robo and then obs right away. Then I made some reavers with shuttles. I got lucky, he was bad and he just died to my goons since my obs could detect his DT.
BUT what if he was actually good? What he if waited for my army to leave the base and THEN attack? What if he split his dts and attacked two locations at once? I get the feeling that DT force you to play really defensive. It takes away the initiative and I am just sitting at home. So what do I do? What's the best way to react?
Was i correct in dropping down a robo right away and getting obs? Then I went for the usual shuttle and reaver. I simply attacked as soon as my reaver popped. I attacked his front while dropping his main and I got lucky with some big hits. But if he had split his DT and snuck into my base...I would have been 100% fucked.
I guess I should try the DT opening myself to see what the weakness is and how to exploit it. Cheers!
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A question I was going to ask till I tested it: What refunds do upgrades give if canceled/building killed?
I was surprised by the answer. They give 100% refund if canceled normally, but they give 75% refund if the building is destroyed.
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EPT
