How do you know if/when you should build mutas against Protoss? Seems like half the time, the P doesn't have enough air defense and I win instantly. But the other half he has a big group of upgraded corsairs and my mutas die instantly.

Dazed.

Canada3301 Posts

June 10 2017 16:57 GMT

#6404

On June 11 2017 01:38 Luddite wrote:
How do you know if/when you should build mutas against Protoss? Seems like half the time, the P doesn't have enough air defense and I win instantly. But the other half he has a big group of upgraded corsairs and my mutas die instantly.

Should be able to get some idea of his corsair count just by virtue of his other gas units. Scout his army, by experience you will eventually realize if 500+ gas is simply not there in the form of HT or goons. You could in theory also scout his main with a pair of scourge before you commit to a muta switch in the mid game.

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

June 10 2017 17:44 GMT

#6405

Generally I only see Muta earlier in the game if Protoss is quite behind. They can be used to fly in and end the game. However, usually just the threat of Mutas will get the Protoss to sink a lot of resources into cannons or Corsairs, so making Hydralisks is better in many cases. Though if the Protoss tries to blind counter Hydras with fast Reavers or something, and no cannons at minerals, Mutas would obviously be a good first tech choice.

Later in the game a ball of Muta, enough to one shot high templars, complements a hydralisk based army very well. Fly in before a fight and pick off some high Templars, just flying over goons. Go behind the Protoss army and snipe reinforcing High Templars, or ones chilling at the natural.

Muta tech switch late game can also be pretty scary. If the Zerg has a huge bank, after a 200/200 fight they can instantly morph a ton of Muta. Good for sniping 2-3 nexuses at the remaining Protoss mining bases. Protoss can not tech switch like this, so it can make for a good timing attack after Protoss loses their army.

Luddite

United States2315 Posts

June 11 2017 06:25 GMT

#6406

Thanks Dazed and CecilSunkure, those are both helpful answers.

Headshot

United States1656 Posts

June 11 2017 18:20 GMT

#6407

My PvZ has been improving (mainly just been playing Fighting Spirit), but I'm having problems with Zerg getting lurkers and sitting them right outside my natural and picking off my Forge and Gateway. At this time I'm usually busy getting up Citadel and Templar Archives, so I don't have any Obs yet. Am I getting Obs too slow? Really frustrating.

ProMeTheus112

France2027 Posts

June 11 2017 18:31 GMT

#6408

well if its that early, zerg has been going really quick to lurkers right? this should be spotable with your first corsair, and then you can go robo instead of archive, obs and maybe goons or reaver or smtg
if you want to be good vs Z you should try and be aware as possible of what they are doing or not doing before you tech anything beyond building the cita, so using your probe to scout, zeals to skirmish/invade, and corsair alive and moving around try and count everything they have or dont have

Keniji

Netherlands2569 Posts

June 14 2017 17:40 GMT

#6409

not really strategy question but certainly simple.

Anyone has a download link for the new (ranked) fish maps?
The ones named:
F_투혼 1.3.scm
E_투혼 1.3.scm
etc.

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

June 14 2017 18:36 GMT

#6410

https://www.fishserver.net/Fish_Ladder_2017_s2_1.zip

arb

Noobville17922 Posts

June 14 2017 19:19 GMT

#6411

I know this isnt the right plce, but has Best swapped to Zerg?
I dont think ive seen him play protoss in a while

Dazed.

Canada3301 Posts

June 14 2017 21:31 GMT

#6412

All the fish maps are separated by rank, what version of a map should I be playing if my accounts pre-ladder? And for that matter, how many hours/wins/games do I have to get in order to be capable of playing fish ladder?

CecilSunkure

United States2829 Posts

June 14 2017 21:34 GMT

#6413

36 hours of *logged in time*, and for melee games you can host whichever version you like. I played about 80-100 games hosting an iCCup version of FS, for no real reason other than I hadn't downloaded the ladder maps yet.

source: https://www.fishserver.net/server_notice/19091336#44

1. Eliminate ladder eligibility
- General game total basis: changed from 30 to 20
- Based on accumulated connection time: Changed from more than 72 hours to 36 hours

Luddite

United States2315 Posts

June 19 2017 06:16 GMT

#6414

When my opponent sends their scouting worker through my mineral line, should I grab my mining workers and use them to attack it? I thought it was a good idea- does a bunch of damage quickly, and sometimes i can even kill it- but I noticed that the pros don't do this. Do they think that even a split second of mining time is more important than damaging the scout?

Bakuryu

Germany1065 Posts

June 19 2017 06:24 GMT

#6415

because regular people slide the scouting scv/probe back home at the mineral patch, so it can quickly pass your mineral line without bugging out. trying to kill it with your own workers is like trying to catch a eel bare-handed.

kogeT

Poland2042 Posts

June 19 2017 07:28 GMT

#6416

As Bakuryu said. And yes, it's not worth to lose a bunch of minerals so early in the game. (unless the worker really gets stuck and you can target it with few of your workers with let's say 80% chance to of killing it)

Luddite

United States2315 Posts

June 19 2017 07:38 GMT

#6417

On June 19 2017 16:28 kogeT wrote:
As Bakuryu said. And yes, it's not worth to lose a bunch of minerals so early in the game. (unless the worker really gets stuck and you can target it with few of your workers with let's say 80% chance to of killing it)

doesn't seem like a "bunch" of minerals, maybe 8 or 16 at most, and it weakens it so that i can clear it out faster later. But I guess it's still not worth it.

sCuMBaG

United Kingdom1144 Posts

June 19 2017 10:24 GMT

#6418

On June 19 2017 16:38 Luddite wrote:

Show nested quote +

doesn't seem like a "bunch" of minerals, maybe 8 or 16 at most, and it weakens it so that i can clear it out faster later. But I guess it's still not worth it.

if you grab more than 50% of your workers to kill it, you will not only lose mining time (which as you stated might not be that much), but you also have to split them again - and chances to get the worker are pretty slim anyways.

In case you are planning on some fancy pocket strat or weird built, I guess it might be worth it - generally I wouldn't do it though

Moopower

128 Posts

June 19 2017 15:57 GMT

#6419

On June 12 2017 03:20 Headshot wrote:
My PvZ has been improving (mainly just been playing Fighting Spirit), but I'm having problems with Zerg getting lurkers and sitting them right outside my natural and picking off my Forge and Gateway. At this time I'm usually busy getting up Citadel and Templar Archives, so I don't have any Obs yet. Am I getting Obs too slow? Really frustrating.

Standard PvZ timing is like this

Zerg Timings

5:30-5:45 is the timing of 3 hatch hydra,, so you should be building cannons at natural if you scout hydras popping out at around 5 min mark. Because 3 hatch hydra comes right as your 1st corsair comes out, you should rely on probe scouting to see it coming by checking their natural and seeing what pops out of their eggs. If they went speedlings, you have to hide your probe and come in at 5 mins and not any sooner or you might not see the hydras at the right time.

3 Hatch mutas should come around 6:30-7 depending on how he cut on economy and how committed to fast mutas, your 1st corsair will be able to spot this easily in time and if going spire and you see no hydras being built, even if he has a hydra den but you see no hydras, assume mutas, because either he has terrible macro and didnt' start building hydras to which you'll be fine due to his lousy macro, or you assumed correctly that he had mutas and block it successfully, but a lot of lings and eggs morphing with his 2nd gas taken, he's spending that gas somewhere so likely mutas. Then build cannons at main and natural and keep building corsairs and keep them alive to scourge.
Protoss Timings

I get stargate around 4:05-4:15 start 2nd gas after stargate starts warping in, the next 100 gas I get is going to be on +1 upgrade if rushing speedlots and then building citadel the next 100 gas, once I start warping citadel, my 2nd gas should be up and make probes mine that and get another 100 gas quickly now to get your 1st corsair as stargate finishes, then around 5:35-5:55 I get templar archives, your corsair should be out roaming too. These timings aren't set in stone and largely depends on what you plan on doing, but if you are going standard transition to zealot/ht army with speedlots to pressure zerg and maybe snipe their 3rd base or kill their drones, then this is the timing.

1st Corsair should be out 5:35-5:45 at latest, if no harassment or early fights happen that delays your tech.

Observer timing should be around 9-10 minutes against standard zerg strategies. You want to get your robo around the time of your 3rd base. You secure 3rd base with cannons in the mean time you get obs. Some zergs might try to rush lurkers to contain you, so just have the game sense to see it. If you see lair and hydra den, no spire, and 2 gas, put 2 +2 together and that tells you they're likely going lurker tech. They are investing in the 2nd gas earlier so they must be spending it somewhere or they are bad. So when my 1st corsair finds their tech and I see no spire but lair with hydra den, I am building robo subsequently to prepare to get observers. If they rushed to lair like that, they won't have the hydra army to pressure you with, so it's a give and take. You just eliminate the other possibilities.

So long story short, timing of your robo to get observatory depends on what zerg is doing, eliminate the other possibilities so you have a good sense and high probability that they are going for lurker tech, then start get robo. Broodwar is like chess, you can't defend against everything if you prepare for anything. You have to eliminate the other options and go counter what they are doing.

evilfatsh1t

Australia8913 Posts

June 20 2017 08:38 GMT

#6420

On June 19 2017 16:38 Luddite wrote:

Show nested quote +

doesn't seem like a "bunch" of minerals, maybe 8 or 16 at most, and it weakens it so that i can clear it out faster later. But I guess it's still not worth it.

its way more than 8 or 16
you are resetting the harvesting for many workers, not just 1 or 2, if you are hoping to kill the worker. like people have said even then, youre unlikely to kill it unless it got stuck for some reason.
youll probably delay your entire build by a couple seconds for no good reason.
the only time you attack the scout with your workers is if they are using the scout to hit you (say, bisu harrassing with probes and you responding with 1 or 2 drones)