EPTSimple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 286
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8639 Posts
the advantage is you get an earlier expansion. you dont even need to pull probes unless you fked up the fight pretty bad and things get 1 sided. theres also other aspects such as seeing an opponent opening 2 gates pretty much guarantees a robo opening. rarely players will go 2 gate dt as its too all in, and 3-4 gate openings dont show the 2nd gate early. the 2 gate player has to either take a risk and go straight for reaver to abuse his timing, or play safe (as he doesnt know whether the 1 gate player might go dt) and go observer->reaver. if 2 gate player goes observer->reaver and 1 gate player goes expo->reaver->observer, youve pretty much lost the game. | ||
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noname_
456 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On November 26 2016 13:50 evilfatsh1t wrote: one reaver is definitely stronger than 2-3 goons in a full scale fight. heck id even say 2 reavers vs 1 reaver + 6 extra goons would still come out even with good micro. the advantage is you get an earlier expansion. you dont even need to pull probes unless you fked up the fight pretty bad and things get 1 sided. theres also other aspects such as seeing an opponent opening 2 gates pretty much guarantees a robo opening. rarely players will go 2 gate dt as its too all in, and 3-4 gate openings dont show the 2nd gate early. the 2 gate player has to either take a risk and go straight for reaver to abuse his timing, or play safe (as he doesnt know whether the 1 gate player might go dt) and go observer->reaver. if 2 gate player goes observer->reaver and 1 gate player goes expo->reaver->observer, youve pretty much lost the game. thanks that is helpful. the reaver to goon numbers I was throwing out were just in very small numbers, say bisu is holding with 1 reaver and 2 goons vs pure goon. reaver really doesn't have staying power in small numbers without a shuttle and he obviously can't afford the minerals and robo production time for that. I am from an sc2 background though have been looking at/playing bw on and off for over a decade and i am curious-- how much more eco do you get from a 1 gate before nexus vs. a 2 gate before nexus in bw--? it seems like the probe production is the biggest upside since it takes more probes to saturate a base, but building probes out of 2 nexi in bw is a lot more costly than in sc2. i am trying to find the happy medium  edit: rather A happy medium; there is no "the" anything in rts  | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8639 Posts
in a mirror matchup any advantage you have is a massive window of opportunity. faster expo means quicker 2 gas and gates, faster ht, faster archon, faster +1 atk, faster 200 etc. each and every one of those is an opportunity for you to pick a fight. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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KameZerg
Sweden1762 Posts
On December 02 2016 10:36 Alejandrisha wrote: I guess it comes down to me wanting to find a safe pvp build and i don't think bisu's 1 gate fe robo is that build --- IMAGINE THAT -- I can easily practice safer builds and probably will The safest build you can do in PvP is 3 Gate robo, if you wanna try it out heres the build + Show Spoiler + 10 Gate and 11 Gas Zealot, Pylon, Core, Zealot 21 Pylon Dragoon, Range, Dragoon 30/33 Robotics 31 x2 Gateways, Pylon, 3rd Dragoon. Observatory when robotics finishes Move out with your army when you have 6 dragoons and obs Expand when you have 9 dragoons and add a robotics | ||
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ArmadA[NaS]
United States346 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8639 Posts
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Jealous
10127 Posts
On December 02 2016 23:28 ICanFlyLow wrote: The safest build you can do in PvP is 3 Gate robo, if you wanna try it out heres the build + Show Spoiler + 10 Gate and 11 Gas Zealot, Pylon, Core, Zealot 21 Pylon Dragoon, Range, Dragoon 30/33 Robotics 31 x2 Gateways, Pylon, 3rd Dragoon. Observatory when robotics finishes Move out with your army when you have 6 dragoons and obs Expand when you have 9 dragoons and add a robotics Strange, I thought it was Gate Cyber Gate Robo Gate o_O More you know... | ||
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Comodore
Brazil49 Posts
I feel like if i try to attack i'm behind. If i go nexus I'm behind. If i go reaver tech i dont have enough army to fight becase he have better eco pumping more units. | ||
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Jealous
10127 Posts
On December 05 2016 06:28 Comodore wrote: What should I do when i scout 11 nexus, last spot scouted and i was 1 gate gas? in pvp. I feel like if i try to attack i'm behind. If i go nexus I'm behind. If i go reaver tech i dont have enough army to fight becase he have better eco pumping more units. Sometimes you have to accept the fact that because of early build-order choices + scouting pattern, you will be behind. That's normal, and if you could overcome that with some simple trick and suddenly be ahead or not behind, then there wouldn't be much purpose in doing builds like 12 Nexus, would there? If he's going 12 Nexus, 2 Gate Zeal, look at what he has going for himself: 2 Mineral lines/Nexus = eco, 2 Gate Zealot Production. What you have going for you: You know what your enemy is doing, should be safe from any immediate danger, tech advantage + gas advantage, will be able to kill scout before he can do the same for you. So, what would I recommend? Reaver bust is always viable in this scenario. I would get range after Robo. Even if you can't bust him, you can do economic damage, contain him, and expand behind it yourself. You can drop Reaver on his mineral lines because he is more likely to be concerned about you coming to bust from the front and might not have Dragoons in position. He certainly shouldn't have Observers to clue him in on your flight path/see you behind his natural minerals on FS. You can try to go for a cheesy drop like 2 Zeal 2 DT on his main - that should do a lot of damage to him, and DTs will prevent him from countering you for a while. You can expand and then add a Gateway - your eco might be a little behind, but your Dragoon count and range timing should be far superior to his so all you have to do is hold any potential Zealot aggression. You can't be ahead in every game you play. Try to work with what you have and abuse what your opponent does not. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
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Highgamer
1405 Posts
Ask a question during countdown to distract them. Switch race during rest of the countdown. + Show Spoiler + Other than that there's no way, I'm afraid... only classy people play Terran in the first place (so most likely not players who'd play Zerg, even less those who play Protoss tho), and only the classiest of the classy play TvT, too... | ||
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halomonian
Brazil255 Posts
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Jealous
10127 Posts
On December 06 2016 11:51 halomonian wrote: when should I use patrol to attack instead of attack move and why? Depends on what unit you're using, because of the way the attack animation works, because it be like that. | ||
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Capresis
United States518 Posts
The units it works with: Vulture, Wraith, Valkyrie (sort of, see wiki), Corsair, Archon (right?), Mutalisk, and I think Drones and Probes but not SCV's ): | ||
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Highgamer
1405 Posts
(Maybe you meant that, Capresis, as you write about 'turn and fire' when discussing a-move, but you also wrote 'chasing', so...). In many situations a-move is sufficient though, if you outnumber the opponents or if your vulture would survive anyway. Imo oftentimes it's better to not over-spend time on patrol-commanding in these situations, and rather macro or do something else. | ||
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