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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
On July 20 2011 18:27 caruso wrote: Where can I find preview-screens for ICCUP-Maps so as to explore them before playing them? The TLPD Map Index has a picture for each map as well as statistics from pro-games. Or you could play on a map against the computer with the cheat "black sheep wall" to remove the fog of war until you familiarize yourself with it. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On July 20 2011 17:00 JMave wrote: but i think hbr doesn't really suit hydra play but rather requires transition into lurkers much faster because of the 4th gas issue. I found HBR to be a map that works for hydras because although it's hard for you to take your fourth, the Protoss' third was also rather open to getting ganked by a handful of hydras in the midgame if you've successfully planed lurkers on the ridge that leads to it. The main is also very easy to drop, which is helpful to aggressive hydra builds. Thing might be really different now as I stopped playing before Protoss players started doing Bisu's new aggressive speedlot/sair build, and I don't have any experience of actually playing against them. | ||
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NationInArms
United States1553 Posts
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xxpack09
United States2160 Posts
On July 21 2011 14:28 NationInArms wrote: What should a Terran do when he scouts a DT rush? Example: Terran has 4 marines, 2 tanks (with siege mode), natural CC, and 1 Factory with machine shop. Terran sees that Protoss is going for DTs. What should the Terran's reaction be? If you have any vults (siege expand is a very rarely used build nowadays) plant mines to delay the DTs for as long as possible. You need turrets ASAPly, at your front, on your factories, and at your main CC. If it isn't a DT drop, you can wall off your natural with your barracks-ebay (and lift it later when you have scan and feel safe) and sit content, but if it is a DT drop, it might be worth it to also invest in scan because of the possibility of DTs simply ganking the turret in your main. Anyway this really all boils down to: --units --detection | ||
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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
On July 21 2011 14:40 xxpack09 wrote: If you have any vults (siege expand is a very rarely used build nowadays) plant mines to delay the DTs for as long as possible. You need turrets ASAPly, at your front, on your factories, and at your main CC. If it isn't a DT drop, you can wall off your natural with your barracks-ebay (and lift it later when you have scan and feel safe) and sit content, but if it is a DT drop, it might be worth it to also invest in scan because of the possibility of DTs simply ganking the turret in your main. Anyway this really all boils down to: --units --detection I'd qualify this with order. Cut all production to research Mines ASAP, Ebay RIGHT after, acad right after. Start producing again once these are making, vultures only out of the fact. Mine you ramp, make first turret at your NATURAL close enough to mineral lines but toward ramp, and second at your main minerals. If the dt slipped into main, just evac to your natural (keep your existing units around that first turret), and mine up lines of retreat to prepare for a scan. Once the main dt is cleared, put up 1 turret by min line in case he does an extra cheesy dt drop. If the drop came, you need to keep you rines alive to focus on shuttle. Just remember he spent A LOT to rush to dts (probably cutting probes) so you are not as far behind as you think. Once defended, you should have 2 scanners in place to do a counterpush. Don't scan the moment a dt slices you, time it so you have 2 scans left when right before you reach the toss natural, as the toss likely did a dt expo | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On July 22 2011 08:26 Ribbon wrote: In this game, Hyuk (red) gets a macro hatch in his one base ZvZ. Why does he do this, and why is it uncommon in ZvZs (at least the ones I've seen)? Is it just "you can support two hatcheries off one base and most Zergs perfer to build the second at their natural, but Hyuk built in in-base so he'd need fewer lings to defend", or is there a more complex reason? It was an all in. Zerg can't support 2 hatches of mutalisks off of one gas. After the 9 mutalisks fly off, the camera goes back to hyuk's base at 15:44, and he has no drones on gas at all. he was probaly just going to pump lings from that point forward until the game was won or lost. The early lings blocking hyuk from his natural and/or the harass that killed some drones might have made it more of an all in than what he originally intended, but as soon as he threw down the second hatch he had doomed himself if he couldn't win with his initial mutas. | ||
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JMave
Singapore1806 Posts
On July 21 2011 14:28 NationInArms wrote: What should a Terran do when he scouts a DT rush? Example: Terran has 4 marines, 2 tanks (with siege mode), natural CC, and 1 Factory with machine shop. Terran sees that Protoss is going for DTs. What should the Terran's reaction be? you mean if you see it with your scout or what? because if you scout it, then you should do these few things all at once: 1. get an e bay 2. get an academy 3. get a second factory and then a third after. there is a timing for you to exploit against a dt rush where he will be very vulnerable because of his lack of units. the idea is to save scan for the push and use turrets to deflect him from getting into your base. if it is a dt drop, you will notice an extremely late natural and will have sufficient time to prepare for it. if you deflect a dt drop entirely, then you are quite far ahead and you can further exploit this timing push as well. | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On July 22 2011 08:26 Ribbon wrote: In this game, Hyuk (red) gets a macro hatch in his one base ZvZ. Why does he do this, and why is it uncommon in ZvZs (at least the ones I've seen)? Is it just "you can support two hatcheries off one base and most Zergs perfer to build the second at their natural, but Hyuk built in in-base so he'd need fewer lings to defend", or is there a more complex reason? It's because he went overgas 10pool. It gives him such a huge gas advantage that when spire pops, he has enough to make 6 mutas due to the larva from 2 hatches. You also make the hatch in main because in almost all situations, you can't ever defend both your nat and your main especially since your zergling speed is so late. You can also cut the second hat and get zergling speed but that usually doesn't work at this timing. (see http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/65112_Perfective_vs_s2 for it not working here as Perfective basically lost the game by getting zergling speed and then suiciding all his lings down his ramp so even though he had the gas, he couldn't spend his larva on muta/scourge and lost.) You can also do it off 11pool and drone whore a bit more while making less lings but you have to make sunk early on to defend against potential 9pools. Also, if you have good read on opponent then you can even get second hat before making lings. (think maps with large rush distances like HBR) There's also another variation of overgas where you get pool at 9 and when spawning pool finishes, you immediately get lair and zergling speed before starting zergling production. This can really catch other zergs off-guard due to it rarely being used especially since they don't expect you to have so much gas stockpiled. (http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/59837_great_vs_Jaedong Great used it here and there is also a WCG replay of JD doing it to Koll on Desti) The hardest part about using overgas though is when the other Z 12hatches. You really need some nice management and your timing to do anything is incredibly slim. Plus, there are only about 4-5 example vods of progamers winning in this situation. (2 with Jaedong, once with Killer and once with Effort and Crazy-Hydra has came close) To see more examples of overgas being used, just watch zvz's on Icarus or Destination. (random example vod: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/60011_Jaedong_vs_Perfective) | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:16 ThePianoDentist wrote: simple question. when you hallucinate an object how many images does it produce? just wondering if it would ever be useful enough for me to use on key single units like arbiter or dark archon two per cast. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
 great on circuit breaker. | ||
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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
On July 22 2011 09:16 ThePianoDentist wrote: simple question. when you hallucinate an object how many images does it produce? just wondering if it would ever be useful enough for me to use on key single units like arbiter or dark archon Two Edit: Each takes double damage | ||
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Danger_Duck
Burkina Faso571 Posts
On July 22 2011 14:31 Release wrote: BO win wise, what does 12 hatch in base beat? What does it lose to? Why is it so rare? (i've only seen it on outsider, and great on circuit breaker.Depends on the map, but this is my goto on FS ZvZ. You play blind (ovie scout only) and put a creep up that finishes as pool finishes to build a sunken. Beauty of in base hatch is that the enemy 9-pool lings can't attack it as it's completing. This build gives you a massive ling advantage with a 9-pool arriving as your sunken finishes (but slightly before your lings) and will allow you to overrun almost any build with zerglings. Except an out of base 12 hatch  Weakness is to good defenders and you give up fast muta. You have to map control with lings from your extra hatch while going 1 gas muta | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On July 23 2011 04:56 Danger_Duck wrote: Depends on the map, but this is my goto on FS ZvZ. You play blind (ovie scout only) and put a creep up that finishes as pool finishes to build a sunken. Beauty of in base hatch is that the enemy 9-pool lings can't attack it as it's completing. This build gives you a massive ling advantage with a 9-pool arriving as your sunken finishes (but slightly before your lings) and will allow you to overrun almost any build with zerglings. Except an out of base 12 hatch Weakness is to good defenders and you give up fast muta. You have to map control with lings from your extra hatch while going 1 gas muta You never drone scout in ZvZ, and if you put up a creep every game early enough that you can turn it into a sunk when your pool finishes then you're pretty much putting a creep up blind very early in the game, which is just stupid (in FS it will always be blind because of how the starting positions are located). So you're putting yourself back in every game that your opponent is 12hatching and 12pooling. You're going to be behind against a 12pool because you're chucking a drone+125mins early on, and once he scouts what you're doing he just needs to put down a sunk at his nat and not play greedy. In the case that you're against 9pool or overgas if they see what you're doing and play safe you won't have a huge advantage going into the spire stage because you won't have a gas advantage of having a second gas. If your plan is to just mass lings and try to win with it I'd rather just go 10hatch since you'll get your larva out at an earlier timing. A huge problem with inbase 12hatch is that it's just too damn obvious what you're thinking because there really isn't much reason to use the build on most maps. | ||
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NationInArms
United States1553 Posts
Should a T use his barracks to scout the opponents base? And if so, what should the T do when it takes fire from marines or goliaths? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
The thing though, is that if you lose your rax early on then it can set you behind as you are unable to build more facs in a timely manner, and I've seen some TvTs where one of the players lost the game because their opponent killed their rax early on and was overwhelmed by their opponent's quick all-in a few minutes later. | ||
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CaffeineFree-_-
United States712 Posts
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Austro
Australia48 Posts
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