What happened to carriers? Upgraded goliaths with emp to good? Or upgraded goliaths on their own to good?

Why dont zerg stay at lair, to fight terran?
Impossible nowadays?
They 'need' hive tech to have a chance at all?

Iam oldschool and pretty familiar with the new metas. I have always updated myself pretty good overall, but hard to know exact everything.

Golgotha

Korea (South)8418 Posts

January 28 2014 22:18 GMT

#3644

On January 29 2014 06:48 Foxxan wrote:
What happened to carriers? Upgraded goliaths with emp to good? Or upgraded goliaths on their own to good?

Why dont zerg stay at lair, to fight terran?
Impossible nowadays?
They 'need' hive tech to have a chance at all?

Iam oldschool and pretty familiar with the new metas. I have always updated myself pretty good overall, but hard to know exact everything.

against a good terran, you need hive to end the game. you cannot break them with just lurkers unless they make a mistake or get behind too far. one they get that high ground sieged, it is near suicide to attack into it without massively overwhelming numbers. you can win with just lair, but the sure way to go is hive and DS

Harem

United States11393 Posts

January 28 2014 23:46 GMT

#3645

On January 29 2014 06:48 Foxxan wrote:
Why dont zerg stay at lair, to fight terran?
Impossible nowadays?
They 'need' hive tech to have a chance at all?

Because if you stay on lair then Terran has no reason to ever move out while they add factories and max out with a huge tank count. They just have to watch out for dumb drop and constantly scan to see when you actually do tech to hive as they will move out based on that.

It works vs robotic terrans who always move out at same timing and never scan for hive timings though. Also,maps nowadays have made hive rushing much more viable compared to older days. (Just think of longinus as example where you have to survive multiple timings beforehand alone)

[[Starlight]]

United States1578 Posts

January 29 2014 00:01 GMT

#3646

On January 28 2014 15:12 thezanursic wrote:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-vAFJLDnqRg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=-vAFJLDnqRg

30:10 Sea shares his hotkey setup. I guess we can finally put a nail in this coffin

Very cool vid, thanks for linking to that.

(Though I don't know why Sea is shouting all the time in it?)

XenOsky

Chile2356 Posts

January 30 2014 07:36 GMT

#3647

is there any other Educational FPVODs with English subs?

puppykiller

United States3137 Posts

January 30 2014 09:58 GMT

#3648

Wait, what if you just place massively or lair tech and put pressure on terran by expanding a lot rather than teching.

evilfatsh1t

Australia8913 Posts

January 30 2014 13:12 GMT

#3649

if you over expand you wont have units. hes just gonna roll you

Darkwhite

Norway355 Posts

January 30 2014 13:27 GMT

#3650

Goliaths are very strong, particularly with attack upgrades; Goliath AA is (10+2u)x2 damage, Carrier armor is 4, which means that you go from 12-16-20-24 damage vs no-armor Carriers.

EMP vs Carriers is nearly useless; it removes only 150 shields, leaving 300 HPs; worse, the 300 HPs have the 4 armor, while the shields don't.

As for Hive in ZvT; it is really tough to deal with maxed Terran armies on Lair, and Terrans have gotten very good at macroing and securing a third. Zerg armies just don't scale well enough to the 200 supply limit without Ultralisks or Defilers.

icystorage

Jollibee19350 Posts

January 30 2014 14:56 GMT

#3651

carriers need to achieve critical mass. they are also expensive and slow to build. you are very vulnerable to a timing attack if you dont have enough carriers since your ground army will be very weak. carriers are best as surprise buttsex

Birdie

New Zealand4438 Posts

January 30 2014 19:37 GMT

#3652

On January 30 2014 22:27 Darkwhite wrote:

Show nested quote +

EMP vs Carriers is nearly useless; it removes only 150 shields, leaving 300 HPs; worse, the 300 HPs have the 4 armor, while the shields don't.

Considering Carriers usually stack on top of each other, one EMP could take out over 1000 shields, definitely worth it.

fencer

122 Posts

January 30 2014 21:18 GMT

#3653

What do you guys think about this idea that I had: adding about 3 wraiths with cloak in the late middlegame/early lategame sometime after your big middlegame push in TvZ? A bit like some good players add just a few BCs at that point, without going ballistic and making 12. The idea is to:
1. Help your vessels out by scouting around for juicy irradiate victims. AFAIK you must be ready to separate your vessels from your army anyway but I always lose a lot of vessels to scourge doing this. If the wraiths run into scourge they can just kill them. Besides, knowing the location of your vessel cloud is valuable information for zerg and it's so annoying giving it away by flying over stuff like littered zerglings.
2. Escort your dropships to clear out any scourge.
3. Deny extra map presence for zerg by killing littered lings/scourge/ovies.
4. Act as an extra insurance against surprise buttsex (sorry, guardians).

Basically a multipurpose task force for the cost of about 4 tanks. I'd only add them if already had a good sized vessel cloud up and running. I'm only D so perhaps these points become invalid as you move up the ranks? I would like to get your opinions.

Harem

United States11393 Posts

January 30 2014 22:21 GMT

#3654

Lategame wraith is viable but super unexplored and only really utilized by Oov.

However, if you went to see one potential way of it working then:

Also, Fantasy does it here after opening 4rax which is really nice transition given the state of what zerg has at that point. Also, it works even better on maps like outlier, outsider, match point etc.

fencer

122 Posts

January 30 2014 22:34 GMT

#3655

Woah I'll definitely be checking those videos out, thanks.

puppykiller

United States3137 Posts

January 30 2014 22:40 GMT

#3656

This is gonna be a weird question but here goes.

One thing I find difficult about mech is that vultures and tanks have such different build times. Should I when playing, focus on macroing both of them well but seperatly (in my macro rotations) or does it make more sense to que tanks a tad bit and go to my factories consistantly on the vulture macro timing. This has been a continuing theme of distress for a very long time now and I'm not sure how players with correct macro approach this dilema from a mechanics perspective considering how much there is to do apm-wise.

evilfatsh1t

Australia8913 Posts

January 31 2014 05:02 GMT

#3657

actually its better to do it the other way around. queue up 3 vultures with some facs and 1 tank with the others. go back when the tank is finished and add another round of vultures and tanks. this is obviously assuming youre loaded, otherwise youre going to have to go back more often because you cant queue multiple vultures at once

fearthequeen

United States788 Posts

January 31 2014 11:56 GMT

#3658

Yeah i agree with evilfatsh that it makes much more sense to queue vultures rather than tanks because it means you'll be going back to your factories less. Presumably you already know that vulture build time = 30 while tank = 50 so queuing 2 vultures and 1 tank for each macro cycle makes the most sense (once you get to the midgame and have the freedom to queue units).

Doing some simple math you can realize that 5 vultures have the same build time as 3 tanks. This means if you go 2 vultures/1 tank each cycle, by the time your 3rd cycle finishes you can actually add just 1 tank/1 vulture per factory for that 4th cycle to maintain 2 vulture to 1 tank ratio. Of course this assumes perfect macro, but hey it could be a nice goal to actually have your macro turn out like that.