EPTAlso, whats the best way to analzye a replay? Should I even be watching replays to get better or just try it out myself without replays?
Kind of dumb question, thanks in advance
How to get better?
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
Also, whats the best way to analzye a replay? Should I even be watching replays to get better or just try it out myself without replays? Kind of dumb question, thanks in advance | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On October 23 2004 14:12 Orome wrote: Plz read this, I spent a lot of time writing it The two main things in SC are theory and execution. You have to practice each one individually. For theory: Analyze the replays where you lost, analyze what you did wrong, where the point was where you started to lose and how that point came to be. If you are unsure, what you should do against a certain strat, watch progamer reps and look, what they do. BUT DON'T JUST COPY, WHAT THEY DID, UNDERSTAND WHY THEY DID IT, AND MAKE CONCLUSIONS. When you are thinking about something, it can help alot, if you talk to other players. They might give you new ideas, which you hadn't thought about yet. Try to make generalisations about MUs. Don't just say I go reaver because it can fuck up Terrans eco and that's good. Say: TvP is all about not letting Terran push you to death and expo as much as you can, without losing the expos, while trying to get enough eco for carriers, which will give you an advantage. Therefore, I go reaver, because if it succeeds, the terran will be set behind with economy and have to play a safer game, meaning I can expand more safely and turtle easier to Carriers and kill him. Of course this isn't true everytime, you don't go for Carriers every time in TvP, but it's good to make some sort of generalisation, which will make a goal. For TvP you can also have some generalisation like P has to overmacro Terran. Try to get some theory first, so you'd actually know what you have to do, but can't do it because your execution sux. -> For execution: Play alot. Practicing is the first step to becoming better. It is so insanely important, if you don't practice enough, you won't get good. Don't play with players that are worse than you. If a player is worse than you, it means you can kill him, with the skills you have, meaning you don't have to get new skills, meaning you won't get better. Ideally, your practice partners will be better than you, but so you still have a chance (PGTour's very good for that). If you want to practice BOs do it in single player, practice them so long that in the end, you don't have to think of what to do anymore in 1 fac exp for example, but do it naturally. THIS WILL NOT MAKE YOUR BO GOOD, BECAUSE YOU WON'T HAVE GOOD TIMING OR ANYTHING. But it's a good start, so you have some basis. Once you really know some BOs, play Multi Players and practice them. Here is, where the theory also comes into play, you have to know, when to use which BO. I wouldn't practice one BO 100 times in Multi Player single player's for that I'd say. In Multi Player you also have to learn to scout correctly and make the correct conclusions -> good counter BO. Now, both theory and execution come together and you know some of both, know, you just have to practice, practice, practice. gl If you follow these steps, you should become a good player in quite a short time I think | ||
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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_GniL_
Canada66 Posts
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Orome
Switzerland11984 Posts
On November 15 2004 12:31 iNCuBuS_ wrote: Thats all I have to do to get better. Somehow I doubt that :/ That's a fucking lot to do, even if it doesn't look like it. And of course it's only the approach to how you should try to improve. The most important thing is still practice. | ||
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
Thanks orome didnt see this when I looked in the forums for a topic like this | ||
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baelrog
Austria705 Posts
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baelrog
Austria705 Posts
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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Ada
Germany150 Posts
If not search for players that are better than you and play them a lot. Maybe you lose 10 games in a row, but you will improve a little bit every game. To keep this improvement play vs players that are at least the same level. | ||
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rei
United States3594 Posts
your question is what you should work on the most Builds? Micro? Macro? Strategy? recon is crucial to builds, and strategies, where micro and macro are through partice and experience, which needless to say that you must play alot. but mindless playing is no use at all, it's really like most people that plays 10 hours a day cause they get piss every time they lose and go into another game mad and just want to make the same build he just used and lost to work. and end up lossing without thinking what happen and why they lost.(yes most of you did this at least once) For macro better you need a reminder that somehow keep you aware that you need to keep your macro up every few seconds. there are a great tool name bw coach, just turn off everything and keep apm live active, everytime your apm gets below 200 set a annoying beeeeeee noice. that will tell you it\'s about time you go back to your unit production buildings and crank up your apm. i would suggest you not worry about micro right now, since you don\'t even understand the importance of recon. because if you want to get good at micro you must be also good at mutiltasking. or you will find yourself lossing games due to lost of one fight cause no macro while fighitng to rebuild your force. of course that\'s not possible if you are playing tvz(most micro intensive match up for terran if not for the whole game). If you recon constantly it\'s like you playing with map hack and know at all times what the other guy is doing. isn\'t that a huge advantage? | ||
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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Pafnucy
Poland1124 Posts
If you play all races or change your build each game, it will be a lot harder. | ||
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ahk-gosu
Korea (South)2099 Posts
lose to him ( not on purpose) watch the rep see what you did wrong adjust win | ||
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sundance
Slovakia3201 Posts
On November 15 2004 14:13 ahk-gosu wrote: play vs a person thats better than you lose to him ( not on purpose) watch the rep see what you did wrong adjust win Best way to improve. And also think about starcraft all day and night (work pretty well for me ). | ||
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neSix
United States1772 Posts
Asking lots of questions on forums can help you improve your theory, and just playing will improve your execution. When watching replays, make sure you note things even as simple as building placement and timing. Every time a player attacks or expands, pause the replay and ask yourself why. It can also help to watch replays with someone who knows the matchup well, so they can answer any questions right on the spot. | ||
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
Because his post was long, I will try to make my agreements short: On the theory side, watch replays to understand them, from both perspectives, and let your imagination run wild as well. If you are unsure about something, experiment with it for many games and you will learn about it. Get others to watch your replays you will get a fresh perspective. Not everyone will be right for you but eventually, some will. On the execution side, this is what "good spamming" and playing "hard strategies" are all about. That is one facet, that of the korean school of Broodwar execution. The western tradition is simply to play a lot, and where both traditions overlap is with the phrase "try hard as many games as you can." More theory or more execution? This I do not know. In my estimation, your theory can hit a wall if your execution does not grow. If you grow your execution, your theory plays in a wider field. Execution is strength, speed, stamina, dexterity of your mind and body -- theory is the form. If you lose a game you should learn to know easily how much both your execution and your theory failed, but you may need to see the replay to be sure about the theory aspect. | ||
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7op
Canada654 Posts
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AirMouse
Canada106 Posts
 I think that replays are the key to getting better, as you see players like RRB who've only been playing 1v1 for a year(team player before that), and Midas who's only been playing for a few years. rA said in an interview that everytime he loses, he watches each replay twice, first time to see what he did wrong, and 2nd time keeping in mind all of his mistakes and possible ways to learn from them. Practice//Not being afraid to lose is probably even more important than replays though. | ||
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1sd2sd3sd
660 Posts
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rednob
Korea (South)210 Posts
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7op
Canada654 Posts
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USMCgamer
Korea (South)255 Posts
Also, definately practice on servers where you will get your ass kicked a lot. It feels good to win but you are able to learn more from your losses. (I am guilty of public b.net 1v1 templing on US just bc I know the map so well and know I can usually stomp the competition lol) That reminds me, PLAY MAPS OTHER THAN LT. Most experienced BW players know that map like the back of their hand. I'm not going to get into what "knowing a map" is but most of you know. Learning to be able to adapt your style of play to different maps will help your overall strategic knowledge of the game. As far as 7ops post goes, no - you probably will never get the chance to be on par with pro gamers. Oh well, they get paid to do it and practice many many hours each day. Being able to play at a decently high level of BW is fun. (I am only NGi 1050-1100 lol) Don't set your expectations too high for yourself but the better you get the more intense the game gets. (at least for me) Good luck :-) | ||
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j-man
United States153 Posts
If you want to know what I think the most important of all the areas is, i'd have to say strategy. This is a strategy game and good players use strategy to win. This has been said by other people many times before, but right now it seems like there is a whole lot of fast players, high apm, and so forth that have a pretty noob strategical game. APM means nothing so long as you feel you have a good reaction time and good control over your units. There are plenty of gosu players out there that have relatively low apms so this is the proof that you dont need to be a 300-400 apm hotkey smasher to be good. | ||
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Muhweli
Finland5328 Posts
On November 15 2004 12:33 Orome wrote: That's a fucking lot to do, even if it doesn't look like it. And of course it's only the approach to how you should try to improve. The most important thing is still practice. Silly he can do that from one game! That's not a lot! (j/k) | ||
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
Ok thanks guys Ill start putting this advice to good use | ||
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Oxygen
Canada3581 Posts
Play games with people better than you, that beat you consistently 70+% of the time (7/10 games), but that you can still beat (3/10 games). Now, play a few games with each of them while they're willing. Save at important parts of the game. I.E. before you attack. After you attack. After you pull off good micro. After you expand, before you expand, before/after you've made your tech choice. If all else fails, every 2 minutes. Scouting doesn't matter. Scout every minute to know what your opponent is up to. So, a surprise attack shouldn't work all that well. If you lose, start back from the place you THINK is the turn of the game (you should be winning the game the entire time. If not, go back and start again. Have your friends give you some space. If they are winning because of X strategy or Y moves, go back and have them make X strategy or Y moves again, and counter differently. See what works and what doesn't, first hand). This works for me. I've tried it only a few times but the few times it has helped me IMMENSELY. 20 games like this and you are 10 x better. Good luck. | ||
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karelen
Sweden2407 Posts
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Allko
China297 Posts
i think watch replays can improve a little practice is more useful | ||
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NeverTheEndlessWiz
Singapore827 Posts
2-Builds 3-Strategy 4-Micro y? if you can't macro well at all, you won't be able to even do the build correctly. if you can't even do the build at all, you won't be able to start to understand the strategy of the build if you don't understand the strategy, you won't know what to and how to micro The Wiz has spoken =P | ||
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Jansports
United States80 Posts
On November 15 2004 20:13 Oxygen wrote: I use this technique to improve: Play games with people better than you, that beat you consistently 70+% of the time (7/10 games), but that you can still beat (3/10 games). Now, play a few games with each of them while they're willing. Save at important parts of the game. I.E. before you attack. After you attack. After you pull off good micro. After you expand, before you expand, before/after you've made your tech choice. If all else fails, every 2 minutes. Scouting doesn't matter. Scout every minute to know what your opponent is up to. So, a surprise attack shouldn't work all that well. If you lose, start back from the place you THINK is the turn of the game (you should be winning the game the entire time. If not, go back and start again. Have your friends give you some space. If they are winning because of X strategy or Y moves, go back and have them make X strategy or Y moves again, and counter differently. See what works and what doesn't, first hand). This works for me. I've tried it only a few times but the few times it has helped me IMMENSELY. 20 games like this and you are 10 x better. Good luck. this is an extremly good learning tool, but also difficult to pull off as it almost requires some kind of connection to better players who are willing to be patient with your learning. I Myself have recently(few days) Begun learning terran and I find my Execution to be suffering Horribly! learnd protoss and then switched, ouch mistake on my part. Maybe its just me but theres something about the almost invisible Supply Depots, With Pylons I can see the blue field and it is good! with Depots I always fall behind somehow =/ Practice is essential, I rarely ever get to play against high skill opponents (I cannot find any) which is allright my Terran is very new and weak I doubt I could win. So I over stressed learning theory and now I find myself frustrated that I can know so much but do so little! Try to keep a good balance between the two and it will work out | ||
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LOcDowN
United States1015 Posts
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gulii
Sweden2791 Posts
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TheGoliath
United States682 Posts
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[ErOs]~InCoGniTo
Italy513 Posts
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FroST(TE)
United States909 Posts
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Casper...
Liberia4948 Posts
no i try to play how my instructor teaches step by step incremental improvement | ||
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USMCgamer
Korea (South)255 Posts
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neSix
United States1772 Posts
On November 16 2004 12:19 Casper... wrote: if i suck at golf, do i try to play like tiger woods? no i try to play how my instructor teaches step by step incremental improvement an excellent point that a new player cannot afford to forget. you will never master the game if you try to improve everything at once. start with simple things, like macro'ing during a battle, or practicing your build. once you've got that down, try to work on your micro and your strategies. once you've got those down, start combining things, by macro'ing counter-units to what your opponent has built, and maybe micro'ing a few goons to take out the opponent's dropship. | ||
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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jotabeans
United States28 Posts
save ALL loss replays and see why u lost the game ask urself whether u were out macroed, microed, etc. If it was a faulty build order, you can try to watch replays of good players, or make ur own adaptation (i prefer the latter since u learn how to adapt on ur own without relying on other people's style, you learn the game better too) | ||
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loztdignity
Sweden176 Posts
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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chiam_ace
Malaysia111 Posts
Im trying to improve now too since im such a noob, losing 2 out of 3 of my games on WGT on c6/c5 where 80% of them are high rank resetters, which is good. And I've been watching my own lost replays, especially in TvZ games which I could win but fcked up micro screwed me lol, and TvP I die almost instantly to Dt's no matter how hard i think and try to counter them. I just suck plainly in TvT.By the way I think this thread is very well made and helpful, to players wanting to improve (like me). Informative | ||
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Geval
788 Posts
On November 15 2004 21:52 NeverTheEndlessWiz wrote: 1-Macro 2-Builds 3-Strategy 4-Micro y? if you can't macro well at all, you won't be able to even do the build correctly. if you can't even do the build at all, you won't be able to start to understand the strategy of the build if you don't understand the strategy, you won't know what to and how to micro The Wiz has spoken =P nope strategy is the most important. | ||
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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Demi
Canada57 Posts
sc is like poker... oh and play lots of sc too. | ||
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BoyNeverStop
United Kingdom14 Posts
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Demi
Canada57 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On November 18 2004 17:04 Demi wrote: is mult-accounting on tlnet legal? no | ||
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fcuk
United States4 Posts
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eternalbliss
United States1035 Posts
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iNCuBuS_
United States905 Posts
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