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Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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Rock_Lee[Z]
Profile Joined June 2004
Canada34 Posts
November 13 2004 07:38 GMT
#21
I remember reading somewhere (I think Tsunami's strategy guide?) that it is best to have at least 2.5 miners to a mineral pile but it was then suggested that Zerg has at least 1.5 per mineral pile to be able to make use of larvae.

That's off of memory.
USWest: Enorasis
Casper...
Profile Joined October 2002
Liberia4948 Posts
November 13 2004 07:41 GMT
#22
On November 13 2004 15:43 BigBalls wrote:
Then someone test it.

Ive been wanting to do this for a long time but never got around to it.

Ive been thinking that my macro is stronger midgame than almost all other players because i play with a low amount of workers

if an optimal amount of workers per base could be found, then people could perhaps save hundreds of minerals that would be better spent on other things


i've tested it
scv/probe returns linear to worker count up to around 20 workers (800/minute)
drones return about 680/16 workers but it evens out at around 21/22 workers
JAM THE FUCKER!
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32277 Posts
November 13 2004 07:49 GMT
#23
Depends in you strat. Some people play TvT with little scv count so they get more money early game, have a faster fact, etc. Depends on your scouting. If you talk about non-stop producing game? i would go for all i can afford as your opponents tend to harras you mineral line (lurk drop or storm drop as an example)

I think zerg is the race in which you actually have to specifically measure your drone count.
Moderator<:3-/-<
LOcDowN
Profile Joined February 2003
United States1015 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-11-13 08:15:30
November 13 2004 07:58 GMT
#24
LOcDowN
Profile Joined February 2003
United States1015 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-11-13 08:15:59
November 13 2004 08:07 GMT
#25
worst.player
Profile Joined July 2004
625 Posts
November 13 2004 08:24 GMT
#26
Why would you ever stop making workers? More workers = more expos = more money = more gateways = more wins.
Locked
Profile Joined September 2004
United States4182 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-11-13 08:30:17
November 13 2004 08:29 GMT
#27
On November 13 2004 17:24 worst.player wrote:
Why would you ever stop making workers? More workers = more expos = more money = more gateways = more wins.


... thats a pretty dumb question... what if you don't have enough expos to make use of all your workers..

your equation is correct except the first part more workers != more expos

making more workers does not give you more expos
making expos gives you more expos, for which you need more workers for.
UMS map pack http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50442
Rock_Lee[Z]
Profile Joined June 2004
Canada34 Posts
November 13 2004 08:39 GMT
#28
On November 13 2004 16:41 Casper... wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2004 15:43 BigBalls wrote:
Then someone test it.

Ive been wanting to do this for a long time but never got around to it.

Ive been thinking that my macro is stronger midgame than almost all other players because i play with a low amount of workers

if an optimal amount of workers per base could be found, then people could perhaps save hundreds of minerals that would be better spent on other things


i've tested it
scv/probe returns linear to worker count up to around 20 workers (800/minute)
drones return about 680/16 workers but it evens out at around 21/22 workers


What map? I think it depends a lot on what map, how many mineral patches and how close they all are. I think we can all assume that the minerals were as close as possible in a normal base but what map was it?
USWest: Enorasis
Locked
Profile Joined September 2004
United States4182 Posts
November 13 2004 08:42 GMT
#29
On November 13 2004 17:39 Rock_Lee[Z] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2004 16:41 Casper... wrote:
On November 13 2004 15:43 BigBalls wrote:
Then someone test it.

Ive been wanting to do this for a long time but never got around to it.

Ive been thinking that my macro is stronger midgame than almost all other players because i play with a low amount of workers

if an optimal amount of workers per base could be found, then people could perhaps save hundreds of minerals that would be better spent on other things


i've tested it
scv/probe returns linear to worker count up to around 20 workers (800/minute)
drones return about 680/16 workers but it evens out at around 21/22 workers


What map? I think it depends a lot on what map, how many mineral patches and how close they all are. I think we can all assume that the minerals were as close as possible in a normal base but what map was it?


like 90% of legit maps have the same mineral lines.... 8 patches arranged in a curve that minimizes the distance between the base and the mins.

of course he probably used LT but i'd atleast assume it was 8 patches.
UMS map pack http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50442
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17021 Posts
November 13 2004 08:52 GMT
#30
It's because you must balance your larvae. If you power too hard, you won't have enough Zerglings and will be run over. Conversely, if you have too many lings, you won't have a good economy. Zerg has the hardest macro for this reason, to master.
Moderator
Catyoul *
Profile Joined April 2004
France2377 Posts
November 13 2004 09:11 GMT
#31
I remember having tested that like 4 years ago, on Dire Straits. It was about linear until 2.5*patches (don't remember exact exact values) and kept increasing until about 3*patches. After that test, I remember I always knew the number of workers in all my bases, but I was playing chobo games only :p
NeverTheEndlessWiz
Profile Joined November 2003
Singapore827 Posts
November 13 2004 09:59 GMT
#32
On November 13 2004 17:52 This-is-not-a-smurf wrote:
It's because you must balance your larvae. If you power too hard, you won't have enough Zerglings and will be run over. Conversely, if you have too many lings, you won't have a good economy. Zerg has the hardest macro for this reason, to master.


plus zerg units are more cheaper in terms of minerals most of the time =P
Retired Brood War player / WCG SG Top 8 for 2002, 2003, 2004, retired, then made minor comeback to Top 8 at 2008. 2009 = bleh xD
yeehaw
Profile Joined October 2004
San Marino888 Posts
November 13 2004 10:00 GMT
#33
There must be an optimal value,and a rate with horrrible dimimishing returns, and I daresay pros should also pay more attention. Its the difference in macro between iloveoov and them. I bet iloveoov wouldn't go, I dont know, I just guess.
G_G
Day[9]
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
United States7366 Posts
November 13 2004 10:23 GMT
#34
The saturation limit is about 36

What i mean by that is that anymore workers than 36 won't increase the rate of money collection

I can work out the set of integrals for it if you REALLY REALLY wanted to ;p
takes a while but, hey, i am a serious friggin nerd ;P
Whenever I encounter some little hitch, or some of my orbs get out of orbit, nothing pleases me so much as to make the crooked straight and crush down uneven places. www.day9.tv
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32277 Posts
November 13 2004 10:59 GMT
#35
On November 13 2004 17:24 worst.player wrote:
Why would you ever stop making workers? More workers = more expos = more money = more gateways = more wins.



Because sometimes you may want to get a little less of workers to get more units or a faster tech.

You get the edge out fo your economy at a particular time you want. Like for example a 3 rax rush vs a zerg. You won have enought money early game for units from 3 raxes + depots.
Moderator<:3-/-<
AMDme
Profile Joined November 2004
84 Posts
November 13 2004 11:03 GMT
#36
20 may be, some body did a test
BoxeR 4ever
ahk-gosu
Profile Joined July 2004
Korea (South)2099 Posts
November 13 2004 11:09 GMT
#37
On November 13 2004 16:38 Rock_Lee[Z] wrote:
I remember reading somewhere (I think Tsunami's strategy guide?) that it is best to have at least 2.5 miners to a mineral pile but it was then suggested that Zerg has at least 1.5 per mineral pile to be able to make use of larvae.

That's off of memory.


hmm yea thats what i thought the larva.
i remembered that long time ago before brood war, people used to be able to mass hydras off of 1 or 2 hatcheries and make a huge number.
but now you need atleast 3.

i knew it wasnt the cost for the drone.
Micro.Macro.Scouting.Harassment.
ahk-gosu
Profile Joined July 2004
Korea (South)2099 Posts
November 13 2004 11:13 GMT
#38
i almost never stop making workers.
the only time you really stop is if your becoming a bit short on cash while your massing up or if you want a certain tech or building or unit.

also obviously i wouldnt make workers when im trapped in my base.

rule of thumb for me is whenever my eyes pass my main building, or if my screen passes it, i make a worker or 2.

in my expo i make about 7 for minerals and 3 for gas after i transfer 12 from my main.

i try to have more workers in my main than my others.
seems that my static defense placement is good so no one attacks my main. they go for my expos.
building placement for toss is so strange.
3 or 2 nicely placed gateways can create such a burden for zergs.
Micro.Macro.Scouting.Harassment.
MiniRoman
Profile Blog Joined September 2003
Canada3953 Posts
November 13 2004 11:23 GMT
#39
I just make around 20 and it works.
Nak Allstar.
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17021 Posts
November 13 2004 11:24 GMT
#40
I meant for Zerg, one would never always make Drones early-mid game, as it would disrupt the balance of larvae, putting you at a loss. Also, gosu, the static defense is as Zerg right? I don't know of a single situation where you would even mass defense your main as any other race, and it's only as Zerg if you don't expo, or mass static defense at the nine choke. You're probably better than me, but you don't seem to know mch about Zerg
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