On January 15 2010 23:00 wut_wut3 wrote: 2hatch lurker is what youre looking for
9lord 12hatch 11pool 10gas x4drones x4lings @100gas - lair 16lord @100gas - lingspeed x3drones x14-16lings @50%lair - den @100%den - lurker aspect @50%aspect - 2-4hydras hatch at 3rd morph lurkers drones hatch in base 2nd gas evo chamber +1 carapace queens nest spire 3rd gas hive 12hydras morph lurkers defilers mound scourge and lings
use the two initial ling groups to threaten a back stab so terran cant move out with 1st push i wouldnt engage his army with just lings but thats just me the surround slaughter might work ive never tried it though so i cant be to sure
On January 15 2010 23:00 wut_wut3 wrote: 2hatch lurker is what youre looking for
9lord 12hatch 11pool 10gas x4drones x4lings @100gas - lair 16lord @100gas - lingspeed x3drones x14-16lings @50%lair - den @100%den - lurker aspect @50%aspect - 2-4hydras hatch at 3rd morph lurkers drones hatch in base 2nd gas evo chamber +1 carapace queens nest spire 3rd gas hive 12hydras morph lurkers defilers mound scourge and lings
use the two initial ling groups to threaten a back stab so terran cant move out with 1st push i wouldnt engage his army with just lings but thats just me the surround slaughter might work ive never tried it though so i cant be to sure
I have huge success with zerg rushing terrans. only way a T can stop a 7 pool is by making his whole sim city at his resources. To people saying cheese is lame or w/e... if it works, then do it. And don't forget that what started as a cheese can evolve into a full game easily.
On June 16 2011 01:10 CoolManJones wrote: I have huge success with zerg rushing terrans. only way a T can stop a 7 pool is by making his whole sim city at his resources. To people saying cheese is lame or w/e... if it works, then do it. And don't forget that what started as a cheese can evolve into a full game easily.
Cheese doesn't work reliably vs good terrans. Flash notably stopped it cold in a finals vs Jaedong on Grand Line (he only lost the Polaris Rhapsody game because he proxy 8rax'd and jaedong has the ling micro of a god)
Also, you're wrong:
See Calm v Fantasy on Pathfinder @ OSL Ro4 (set.... 3? 4?)
Fantasy gets a wall at his natural and holds it vs a 5pool
Judging from the games played, Flash exploited the 3 hatch muta timing with early valks to accompany his initial group of m&m as he pushed toward and killed Zero's third. This would delay z's hive tech in which Flash would slowly start to build up his facts/double expoing while using vults + mines + his relatively small m&m group to prevent z from any counter attking during his transition to full mech production. By the time z gets defilers out, Flash is already laying siege to z's 3rd/4th gas. We also have to take into account that Zero was sort of unprepared against Flash's tactics and was forced to improvise.
Not sure about a direct counter, but during the initial push of m&m + valk, maybe more lings as mentioned earlier or going mass hydras with ups + lings if scouted the armory. but ofcourse alot of this depends on scouting + metagame.
On January 15 2010 23:00 wut_wut3 wrote: 2hatch lurker is what youre looking for
9lord 12hatch 11pool 10gas x4drones x4lings @100gas - lair 16lord @100gas - lingspeed x3drones x14-16lings @50%lair - den @100%den - lurker aspect @50%aspect - 2-4hydras hatch at 3rd morph lurkers drones hatch in base 2nd gas evo chamber +1 carapace queens nest spire 3rd gas hive 12hydras morph lurkers defilers mound scourge and lings
use the two initial ling groups to threaten a back stab so terran cant move out with 1st push i wouldnt engage his army with just lings but thats just me the surround slaughter might work ive never tried it though so i cant be to sure
On June 16 2011 01:10 CoolManJones wrote: I have huge success with zerg rushing terrans. only way a T can stop a 7 pool is by making his whole sim city at his resources. To people saying cheese is lame or w/e... if it works, then do it. And don't forget that what started as a cheese can evolve into a full game easily.
Cheese doesn't work reliably vs good terrans. Flash notably stopped it cold in a finals vs Jaedong on Grand Line (he only lost the Polaris Rhapsody game because he proxy 8rax'd and jaedong has the ling micro of a god)
Also, you're wrong:
See Calm v Fantasy on Pathfinder @ OSL Ro4 (set.... 3? 4?)
Fantasy gets a wall at his natural and holds it vs a 5pool
on grand line, it only worked because he scouted it. Had he scouted wrong direction, there would be no bunker in the main, no scvs pulled, and no marines surving. 5pool is terrible vs terran because you get less lings, and it's way too slow. a lot of the times, it's up to the terran to fail and because Flash doesn't fail too often, it's almost impossible to beat him.
On June 16 2011 02:45 101toss wrote: Don't let him 14cc, 9p speed works fine
9 pool speed would suck against anything else. ZvP, 9 pool opening is as reliable as 12 hatch and doesn't give you any eco disadvantage considering your opponent is able to react a 9 pool. If he can't, it's even better.
But I seriously don't think anything off 9 pool opening can be good against Terran.
On June 16 2011 01:10 CoolManJones wrote: I have huge success with zerg rushing terrans. only way a T can stop a 7 pool is by making his whole sim city at his resources. To people saying cheese is lame or w/e... if it works, then do it. And don't forget that what started as a cheese can evolve into a full game easily.
It took 12 years, but someone has finally solved StarCraft. Bravo... BRAVO!!!
(A good Terran player can beat a bad Zerg player even if caught off guard just have having a marine and decent scv micro. If it gets scouted your pretty much autolose as Zerg which isn't much fun. Best to save it for important games when there is some kind of drama than to do it all the time and never be able to beat the same person consistently because they eventually figure out you're bad.)
On June 16 2011 02:45 101toss wrote: Don't let him 14cc, 9p speed works fine
9 pool speed would suck against anything else. ZvP, 9 pool opening is as reliable as 12 hatch and doesn't give you any eco disadvantage considering your opponent is able to react a 9 pool. If he can't, it's even better.
But I seriously don't think anything off 9 pool opening can be good against Terran.
It works great when you know your opponent (Flash) will always 14cc or proxy rax :D
On June 16 2011 01:10 CoolManJones wrote: I have huge success with zerg rushing terrans. only way a T can stop a 7 pool is by making his whole sim city at his resources. To people saying cheese is lame or w/e... if it works, then do it. And don't forget that what started as a cheese can evolve into a full game easily.
Yes! It must be either their morals or a lack of creativity holding Zero and Jaedong back....
Someone quickly make an artistic cheerful with big letters saying "SEVEN POOL"!
I'm sure we're all willing to chip in a few bucks to send someone to Korea and end Flash's reign of terror!
On June 17 2011 15:22 ghrur wrote: Hmmmmm, how much of an econ advantage does terran get with 1rax CC vs 9pool if Z doesn't commit any drones to gas and transitions to 3 hatch muta?
Why do zergs 9pool vs terran instead of overpool like vs toss? The ling timings are similar enough... :/
well, the terran remains approximately 0-1 bases ahead of the zerg whole game until the zerg loses so...
9 pool is really to deny a 14CC and overpool means many more scvs and potential marines so there is almost no chance of the deny. 9pool against 1rax fe force 4-6 scvs off the line and overpool forces maybe 1. The reason zerg can overpool vs protoss is because it still forces 2 cannons if the protoss forge FE. 9pool against protoss forces 2 cannons as well as probe pull so the zerg can drag down the protoss economy with the zerg economy. SCVs are strong enough that few will die, and the zerglins become economically inefficient.
EPT
