grot, the answer to ur question (why everyone dont use it), assuming ur premises are true (no disadvantage to the p) would be:

ignorance

but anyways, what ur really asking, i guess, is "there's no disadvantage right? right? am i missing something?" and then the answer is.. i dunno. it seems like making the terran paranoid is worth losing a pylon way way down the line. maybe i'm missing something too.

edit again: ok here's one situation where the open proxy pylon might hurt.. if u get cheesed hardcore. then u only have 1 pylon on ur gate, and, if u get really unlucky, he kills ur other pylon on the way. so ud be psilocked (pun and coinage) and then ud be stuck with ur 1 goon and probes or whatever, no zeal on the way, and probably never get anything out of that gate again. it's possible i guess. maybe?

edit again: ok well if the pylon is proxied at another main, then they wont kill it on the way. but they still could potentially get your pylon supporting the gates a little easier. not as big of an advantage as i thought tho, since the other pylon (at some other main) would be too out of the way for a cheeser to get most likely

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

February 04 2004 04:09 GMT

#24

hahahahah stimey you are amazing, i loved your post it was really funny and insightful - maybe i should start proxy BBS's-ing protoss every once in a hundred games right? lol ~~

and surv and moon you're both right and nice try again but the barracks reaches the opponent's base waaaay before you have to make your choice in any position on LT except 6vs9

I know because i do that lift thing too

it helps a little bit thats true

surv

Belgium337 Posts

February 04 2004 04:31 GMT

#25

i know that. Thats why i said E-Bay.

ToKoreaWithLove

Norway10161 Posts

February 04 2004 05:06 GMT

#26

Ok i'm sorry but let me get an idea of your problem. I understand that because a pylon is from the protoss main you fear hidden tech, either DT or reaver.

And you cant float you barrack because it will arrive too fast (im guessing you mean too slow)

1st I really don't see the big problem. Sure they miss a pylon but cant you just poke at their ramp with your four marines or something, if they have hidden tech only one goon, and sure you can at least slip an scv in.

2nd you can play safe and expand with turrets and solid defense.

3rd just scout for the silly pylon with 2 scv's.

4th build the silly ebayand float it, its not like 125 mins are a big deal, and the recon is prolly worth it anyway. Zerg players sacrifice overlords everygam anyway and I dont see them dying from it.

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

February 04 2004 15:15 GMT

#27

pfff you want me to build an ebay so early that I can scout his base with it and still have time to build a turret and defend against the earliest possible dt rush, i'd have to build the engineering bay before my second fact, i'd have to scout earlier, i'd also have to build 3 turrets to defend against every possible cheese that can come with it, to end up with a triple build slowdown, $300+ wasted and only a single opening left for me to go for (good old "fast" exp, it wont even really be fast anymore and 90% of the tosses will be expecting it ;(..)yes i think this is a big problem and i'd rather die than overload my opponent with christmas presents just because he built a pylon somewhere else

but really, my question "there's really no disadvantage, right?" has been answered, so thanks

Liquid`Drone

Norway28781 Posts

February 10 2004 16:12 GMT

#28

going no turret in the first place is just as cheesy as dt dropping

SoMuchBetter

Australia10606 Posts

February 10 2004 17:45 GMT

#29

eri knows how to scout a toss with a single dragoon on his ramp anyway :O

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

February 10 2004 21:22 GMT

#30

On February 11 2004 01:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:
going no turret in the first place is just as cheesy as dt dropping

an interesting point of view, but if this is your opinion, how can a terran player ever threaten a fast expanding protoss on gaema gowon (for example) without resorting to (what you call) cheese? you really think he should get an early scanner or ..?

Liquid`RaSZi

Netherlands2766 Posts

February 10 2004 21:30 GMT

#31

vultures!

Liquid`RaSZi

Netherlands2766 Posts

February 10 2004 21:33 GMT

#32

+ i think proxy pylons are scoutable. They hardly leave their base for goon attacks so why not just scout with the rine. They always make them in the same spots, so it's not that big a waste.

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

February 10 2004 22:29 GMT

#33

I think it's a dangerous assumption, saying that you will find the proxy pylon just like that

FreeZEternal

Korea (South)3396 Posts

February 10 2004 23:40 GMT

#34

Never heard about proxy pylons. If you feel something is not right, just go two facts. Just Play safe -_-;.

SillyCat

United States960 Posts

February 11 2004 02:40 GMT

#35

turn maphack on, look on minimap for little dot
then attack it.

STIMEY d okgm fish

Canada6140 Posts

February 11 2004 12:13 GMT

#36

grot's whole point is that toss can always proxy pylon and get a lot of their terran opponents to "play it safe" vs them even though they are actually doing their normal strong build. toss gain an advantage against him in this situation because he's forced to play it safe, he wants to know if there's any way to avoid giving up this advantage.

well for one thing, you could assume he is only proxying a pylon. this is a bad option imo but it depends on who you are playing, i guess.

let's just assume that if you play it safe vs the kinds of thing a toss would hide (reav and dt or an extra gate maybe, or carriers ive seen some noob do in vanilla), meanwhile the toss only proxied a pylon, that you have given the toss some advantage. ok, so assuming that ... you have to play UNSAFE against the potential other proxies in order to do what you are hoping to accomplish. same thing i said in the above paragraph, i guess. same option.

so the question remains, is there some other option? i dont see how, because, well, either you play to stop the dt, for instance, or you dont.

you could try to pressure the opponent early (as gundam's approach does) and get a feel for if you think he's teching or not based on his units. and if you think he's teching, not only do you start getting turrets but you start scouting for a proxy. or maybe you scout for a proxy the minute you see a missing pylon anyways, would it hurt that badly?

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

February 11 2004 17:14 GMT

#37

you're right about everything except you can't gundam first and then "feel" what is going on while there was a proxy pylon, because the possibility exists that there is already a dt in your base by that time

you see, normally your scout is in his base going around and around and all that time he can't start building dt because you would see it, while when he is getting a proxy pylon he can get the dt tech buildings as soon as he has the money, ending up with dt before your mine research is even completed, making turrets your only way out

edit : by this time i've found that starting your factory before your second supply is a good way out of this mess, i'm actually considering to change my standard build

SpuniasauR

Australia1500 Posts

February 11 2004 18:22 GMT

#38

... i dont see what ur worried about with a stray pylon. if ur worried bout hidden tech go vults. grab 4-5 then pop 1 tank and have him at home with either turrets or mines wateva u have available. besides dts and reavers can be avoided. refer to reaver scv micro threads, just run the scvs and make a turret or 2. it sounds like u have issues with toss harass...

GroT

Belgium3003 Posts

February 11 2004 20:57 GMT

#39

On February 12 2004 03:22 SpuniasauR wrote:
... i dont see what ur worried about with a stray pylon. if ur worried bout hidden tech go vults. grab 4-5 then pop 1 tank and have him at home with either turrets or mines wateva u have available. besides dts and reavers can be avoided. refer to reaver scv micro threads, just run the scvs and make a turret or 2. it sounds like u have issues with toss harass...

I am under the impression that you didn't read anything in the thread except the title "proxy pylon", right?

Liquid`RaSZi

Netherlands2766 Posts

February 11 2004 22:19 GMT

#40

What's so hard about find proxy pylons? With lost temple in front of me and given his position and yours i can point at most 2 positions IT MUST be at.