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I have found an excellent way to train for sc. If any of you people out there are hackers, you will quickly catch on to what I'm proposing.
Use a tool like "cheatengine v 4+" or "speed gear" you can find these through google and each of these programs have a method for decreasing time increments for a targeted application.
In other words, you can make a game, say Starcraft, run at 2x, 3x, or 10x+ normal speed.
This is basically an alternative to the method BlueIris brought up for increasing your apm, only it is better  (no offense).
It is better because instead of spamming to keep your apm artificially high, (you dont' even need to worry about your apm really) you just need to play to "keep up."
If you can "keep up" with a computer at 2x fastest speed, you can easily keep up with all but the most harrass-heavy pros. With mechanics that blazing fast, you can really focus entirely on your BOs and game sense.
To give an analogy of how effective this is, try playing on fastest for 5-10 games. Now play on normal speed. See how exquisite your unit control is?
The idea, of course, is not identical because you will likely be approaching an upper limit of reflex/processing capability for the person, but the mental "slowdown" effect of this method will be similar.
Anyway, since this is hacking, I completely understand if kennigit/plexa/whoever is on closes this thread before anybody sees it, but I don't think this is particularly unfair. Like with steroids, which are totally fair, you're only cheating when you're training--during a real game you're following the rules just like everybody else! :D
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Doesn't sound like cheating to me. It kind of sounds like Gosu's training ball with the 100x gravity... DBZ reference [2 pts]. Have you actually tried it yet? Cause I think I'm gonna get on that. Play some 1v1's on 5x with my bro.
Edit: Goku...
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This does not help you... At 2x game speed, the game is sufficiently faster, that you end up making compromises in the things you decide to do. Furthermore, your sense of timing gets screwed up.
The best way to improve is and always has been to mass game against players slightly better than you (aka in a typical bo5 you lose 1-3 or 2-3). And by mass game I don't mean any of this sissy shit of chatting in channel for 3 hours and playing maybe 10 games in a day, but like seriously playing 500 games on ICCup in one season kind of mass gaming.
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On September 02 2009 11:15 Mortality wrote:
This does not help you...
You tried it?
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500 games in one season? I've played over 2k this season. I've tried many ways, and I'm just offering one. Anyhow, the same principle applies to running or swimming or any sport where speed matters. You run with weights, you swim with a drag suit. Does it mess up your technique a little? Screw up your stroke/stride timing? Of course it does, but you've gained the strength and agility to make up for it. Usually toward the end of the season, people "taper off" and focus less on building more strength and more on technique. In the same way, a typical routine using this method may involve 10 games at 2x speed, and then 2 games at normal speed to reinforce timings.
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Cheating is never a good way to to train.
Mass games and practice
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On September 02 2009 11:32 arb wrote:
Cheating is never a good way to to train.
Mass games and practice
I concur. Cheating to practice is still wrong
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On September 02 2009 11:35 SanguineToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 11:32 arb wrote:
Cheating is never a good way to to train.
Mass games and practice I concur. Cheating to practice is still wrong
Again, I think this is wrong in the way that using weights in athletics is wrong.
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On September 02 2009 11:15 DivGradCurl wrote:
Doesn't sound like cheating to me. It kind of sounds like Gosu's training ball with the 100x gravity... DBZ reference [2 pts]. Have you actually tried it yet? Cause I think I'm gonna get on that. Play some 1v1's on 5x with my bro.
Brilliant analogy
I had a similar idea after all the hacking drama; play with your opponent giving you shared vision. As a low-level player, there are tons of times I attack when I shouldn't and turtle when I should attack all because I don't know what my opponent has. I think it would be a good way to get a feeling for timing windows and the flow of your opponent's game relative to yours. I realise you could sorta do this just by watching replays, but I'd also argue that being able to see moments of vulnerability in hindsight isnt quite the same as recognizing these moments when actually in the game. One disadvantage I could see though is you might focus too much on your opponent's base and forget about your own.
Also, I think OPs idea is interesting although I feel like anything over 2x might be a little too fast to handle.
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This obviously is not cheating in any normal sense of the word. I agree that practicing on 2x would be useless; I tried this and couldn't even select a moving unit, it's so fast. I think it could be useful to practice on something slightly faster than fastest, like 1.1x fastest or 1.2x fastest, just to give it a little more edge.
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you're cheating against yourself, its an self imposed handicap...how is it so wrong?
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2x is completely doable, btw. If you'd like to try it, set for 2x on fastest. You will find yourself struggling for maybe 2 or 3 minutes before you get the hang of it (simply by stopping your spamming habits!!!). Beyond 2x, I've still been unable to beat the computer, though I haven't really given it an honest try yet. I'm still trying to do 200/200 pushes on destination, without contain or units at choke (so I get used to the micro element as well) at 2x speed.
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United States3824 Posts
On September 02 2009 11:15 DivGradCurl wrote:
Doesn't sound like cheating to me. It kind of sounds like Gosu's training ball with the 100x gravity... DBZ reference [2 pts]. Have you actually tried it yet? Cause I think I'm gonna get on that. Play some 1v1's on 5x with my bro.
You said Gosu and not goku
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Maybe you should remove the "Keep up with the most harass heavy pros" part. since well do you know how much harass a computer does? none
also i dont see how this would be any different from playing Fastest forever then going to Faster. Personally i could see this making you thinkt he game is too slow and not wanting to play anymore also.
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Interesting point about the harrass. The computer doesn't harrass. This is very different from playing fastest forever because all that is is basically "operation cwal." This increases movement speed, mining speed, fire rate, everything.
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On September 02 2009 12:01 wok wrote:
Interesting point about the harrass. The computer doesn't harrass. This is very different from playing fastest forever because all that is is basically "operation cwal." This increases movement speed, mining speed, fire rate, everything.
No im talking of overall game speed. I.E Fastest(SPEED) into Faster(SPEED) i.e the actual game slows down which for everyone i know it is hard for them to play after playing at a higher speed which would be one of my concerns(besides the hacking of course) but with sc2 coming out in the end this doesnt even matter
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But with sc2 nothing really matters. We should just kill ourselves.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
It's an interesting concept to improve your multitasking. Probably works better if you do it with a friend
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It is not cheating because it only applies to single, or mutually arranged games.
It's going to improve your speed in pure form. How it relates to better micro, macro is another study. It doesn not improve your timing much nor game sense. It is most likely going to be of help for really new players. At high levels, sc is a game of compromises, what to best utlise given a given constraint. Here you relax your speed constraint but no necessarily improves how you can utilise your now available bandwidth. That is, whilst you might be more comfortable doing more, it does not guarantee more is better because sometimes, it's your decision to do A rather than B that's going to provide the most benefits.
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Why the F would you use the word cheating in the OP. Changing the game to play against the computer is not cheating, it is modding.
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On September 02 2009 12:21 potchip wrote:
It is not cheating because it only applies to single, or mutually arranged games.
It's going to improve your speed in pure form. How it relates to better micro, macro is another study. It doesn not improve your timing much nor game sense. It is most likely going to be of help for really new players. At high levels, sc is a game of compromises, what to best utlise given a given constraint. Here you relax your speed constraint but no necessarily improves how you can utilise your now available bandwidth. That is, whilst you might be more comfortable doing more, it does not guarantee more is better because sometimes, it's your decision to do A rather than B that's going to provide the most benefits.
Exactly. However, for those of us < B, the mental awareness of what's going on and the pace of the game are still nontrivial. After playing 3 games against the computer like this, my mind has already become used to the 2x speed. Playing at 1x is frighteningly slow now. (you can see that the movement of the units is no longer smooth, but pixelated and interrupted.) When trying to micro 4 groups of units at 2x speed, you find microing 4 groups of units at 1x speed trivial. So trivial in fact, that it seems to take an eternity for the action you give to be executed, and in that time you go back to your base, started another round of macro and are back to microing before your back-group has flanked half a screen. And as you press your goons forward and target fire your zealots in groups to tanks. The seeming eternity it takes for your speedlots to drag the mines into opposing tanks is plenty of time to establish a new expansion w/ pylon and assim. (I played pvt for this simulation).
While my raw apm did not improve by much, (I think barring speed-targeted hand exercises, 250 is about as fast as I can go with my left hand before i start clicking the wrong butons.) my multi-tasking ability, as well as my reaction time and amount of time I spend looking at my minimap improved dramatically.
And if you're not spamming, anything 200+ is totally respectable against a computer. (no harrass to defend, no undefended expos to harrass...)
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This wouldn't help at all... or not as much as gaming normally at least. Timings would be off, early build orders terrible. You wouldn't know exactly when to go back to the base to build more units, etc. Computers don't harass or do shit after the early game anyways. So all it comes down to is managing your own base - which is once again pointless with timings off.
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On September 02 2009 12:43 FabledIntegral wrote:
This wouldn't help at all... or not as much as gaming normally at least. Timings would be off, early build orders terrible. You wouldn't know exactly when to go back to the base to build more units, etc. Computers don't harass or do shit after the early game anyways. So all it comes down to is managing your own base - which is once again pointless with timings off.
Don't knock it 'till you try it, seriously.
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Thanks for reading OP. Again, as an analogy...
this is like using a drag suit WHILE swimming, or using weights WHILE running. The strength training doesn't do anything by itself, but in addition to swimming and running, this extra effort at the VERY LEAST builds confidence. At best it provides you the conditioning necessary to improve your performance.
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I've played with these before, and they are definitely pretty cool tools. You can even play other people with them (since it is a map-based tool). However, last I played it I remembered a lot of glitches. For example, mining speed was not well translated into x2 since mining at the patch was the same as in fastest speed, just the travel time between the hatchery was less. Also, units wouldn't become aggrod unless in attack+move or in patrol mode, so that is a little troublesome. Not sure if there have been any improvements though. I think this can be a very good method for a lot of people though
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On September 02 2009 11:38 blueblimp wrote:
This obviously is not cheating in any normal sense of the word. I agree that practicing on 2x would be useless; I tried this and couldn't even select a moving unit, it's so fast. I think it could be useful to practice on something slightly faster than fastest, like 1.1x fastest or 1.2x fastest, just to give it a little more edge.
While I acknowledge, clicking moving units is difficult at first, but so long as all your moving units are hotkeyed, you should be fine. There is no simple solution to target firing at 2x, but even an attempt to will dramatically improve your ability to target fire at 1x.
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On September 02 2009 12:49 Superiorwolf wrote:I've played with these before, and they are definitely pretty cool tools. You can even play other people with them (since it is a map-based tool). However, last I played it I remembered a lot of glitches. For example, mining speed was not well translated into x2 since mining at the patch was the same as in fastest speed, just the travel time between the hatchery was less. Also, units wouldn't become aggrod unless in attack+move or in patrol mode, so that is a little troublesome. Not sure if there have been any improvements though. I think this can be a very good method for a lot of people though
Those were the differences I mentioned between map-based 2x speed and the way I'm proposing. My way, you can practice on a standard map. And EVERYTHING is 2x. There are none of those inconsistencies caused by a "2x" map.
Edit: sorry for the double post. Forgot quote syntax.
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Oh, my bad, I missed that in the op. Seems like a pretty solid way to train then, I am sure a lot of people have their own methods and this is one of them.
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I have a feeling pros do this all the time in the offseason.
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Third party progams can get you banned.
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You don't need teamliquid's approval to do what you want; if you think it's gonna improve your game then by all means give it a whirl. Sounds like you thought it out, go try it and see if it works (also, hacking against the computer isn't cheating; cheating is when you give yourself an unfair advantage against your opponent)
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this seems like a good exercise to just let you think faster and move faster. It's like when I listen to fast music, then slower music, I can pick apart fractions of beats in the slower one and hear elements of the song. I just perceive it being slow, and that's how it will be with this technique too. good idea ^^
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thanks.
i'm definitely trying this out this weekend.
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As a one-time music major, I have to say this reminds me of how musicians practice for concerts. The main difference is that we practice at slower tempos than performance, or at least when we start out.
The idea is to practice it slowly until you can play it perfectly at a slow tempo, then slowly up the tempo until you can play it faster than you would in a performance with no mistakes. Then, when you're in a performance, you've already practiced it faster and therefore, it's literally impossible to make a mistake.
The same idea really applies here. If you start at the slowest speed, and play at that until you can macro/micro/do everything perfectly, then increase the game speed until you play at faster-than-fastest. At that point, your macro should be pretty much perfect.
Someone mentioned how hard it is to select units on 2x speed. Use that to your advantage; if you can split your probes perfectly on 2x speed, then regular speed will be a breeze.
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I think this is incredibly valid.
I'm a music major on the classical guitar and this is _the_ most common way to increase the speed of the fingers. The metronome method - Learn something perfect, flawless at a very slow speed, taking care of every detail. Then, go up two notches on the metronome, then down one, then up two, etc. If you dont rush this method, you can gain massive speed increases, sometimes double or more when the music requires it. Great musicians can play anything they normally play much faster. Your just increasing your limit, so you have even more breathing room. If you can have less large jumps in speed, I would totally do this.
Practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.
Edit : ^^ it seemed I was typing my response as you were. Cool that it made us chime up the same idea!
Actually, there is about a million analogies to make. Typing being one we can all relate to. I can type alright at about 80 wpm or so, but I could guaranteed no mistakes at 40 wpm.
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On September 02 2009 13:21 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:
Third party progams can get you banned.
You cant get banned if you dont logon to bnet and play versus computers like the OP is suggesting -_-. This "Hack" isn't really a "Hack" how hes proposing it to be used it just seems pointless when experience playing others in real time will sharpen your timings, increase your game sense, improve your adaptability and eventually all the gaming you do will start to increase your APM and speed naturally.
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This is actually a pretty good idea, and one I've used in the past. For all the people knocking this, please read the OP more closely.
First of all, this is not cheating in any way. Honestly the topic title is misleading and should be changed. For one thing, this won't work online, since you would desync from the server info and and everything would get all screwed up. It's just a self-imposed handicap to improve speed/multitasking.
Also, it's not buggy at all. It's not the same as those "2x maps" of the past, rather you're using Cheat Engine to speed up the entire game, so EVERYTHING is faster. You can also set the speed to 1.2x or 1.5x or whatever for more incremental speed changes.
What ella above me said is perfect. Play some games at 1.2x than go down to 1x or 1.1x than play some at 1.4x, etc. You're basically training yourself to react faster and macro/micro faster. Once you get good at the increased speed, when you drop back to normal speed, you're able to do that much more.
And it's pretty fun to try to beat one of the BWAI custom AI's at like 2x speed. Crazy shit.
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Takes alot of emotional intellegence not to continue to cheat. So I wouldn't advise it for most.
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i agree totally with this idea.
what i dont understand are the skeptics that say it'll mess with your timing, like when to place buildings.. timings like that, and things like when to move out or build turrets against muta, is still entirely based on whats visible on the screen. its not like progamers develop an internal SC bio clock that says hmm, 7:30, time to push; they just know when from lots of practice.
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On September 02 2009 15:32 MoOnrai11 wrote:
Takes alot of emotional intellegence not to continue to cheat. So I wouldn't advise it for most.
Oh hi guy that didn't read the thread.
This isn't "cheating", this is "modifying".
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Can a mod please change the title of the thread?
And:
On September 02 2009 13:58 ella_guru wrote:
I think this is incredibly valid.
I'm a music major on the classical guitar and this is _the_ most common way to increase the speed of the fingers. The metronome method - Learn something perfect, flawless at a very slow speed, taking care of every detail. Then, go up two notches on the metronome, then down one, then up two, etc. If you dont rush this method, you can gain massive speed increases, sometimes double or more when the music requires it. Great musicians can play anything they normally play much faster. Your just increasing your limit, so you have even more breathing room. If you can have less large jumps in speed, I would totally do this.
Practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.
This.
Played classical music on the double bass for a good number of years. The way to get something down solid is to practice it, then speed it up past the speed you're supposed to play it at, so that at the "correct" speed, it's extremely easy.
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People will think of any excuse to think that playing against the computer actually means you're getting better. You're not.
Play people, scout, always keep macro on, always expand... if you want to get better vs people.
Don't pretend playing a a computer is somehow training. It's not.
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i always thought 2x would be a viable game speed to have on battle.net. Nice work
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This might work for practicing your macro (hotkeying hatcheries then mass producing drones, making M+M while making SCVs, etc.), but I wouldnt play a full game on increased speed, because as others have already mentionned it, timing is extremely important and this could deteriorate your timing skill. Even for muta micro, getting the feel of the muta cooldown is so important, changing the speed wouldnt help either.
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As to all who said "cheating is wrong, so this is wrong", please, put a little more thought into it.
Has anyone ever typed "show me the money" and "operation cwal" in a custom game just to practice a build order, practice wall-in, or to check out anything basically? I'm sure everyone did, yet it is cheating.
Has anyone ever used a third party program to get APM Live, the timer on screen, instant replay saves, things like that? I don't see how setting the game speed to 2x fastest in single player is much different.
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On September 02 2009 16:41 cUrsOr wrote:
People will think of any excuse to think that playing against the computer actually means you're getting better. You're not.
Play people, scout, always keep macro on, always expand... if you want to get better vs people.
Don't pretend playing a a computer is somehow training. It's not.
lol ask NONY. Playing vs computer is quite effective to train buildorders, apm, timings
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On September 02 2009 17:43 johanes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 16:41 cUrsOr wrote:
People will think of any excuse to think that playing against the computer actually means you're getting better. You're not.
Play people, scout, always keep macro on, always expand... if you want to get better vs people.
Don't pretend playing a a computer is somehow training. It's not. lol ask NONY. Playing vs computer is quite effective to train buildorders, apm, timings
I play the computer all the time to scout. I try to keep my build order up to like 50 or 60 PSI without losing my probe, around the base.
Never letting my minerals get about what I need to build, and keeping my ramps blocked etc. So you never want minerals over like 200 usually or 400 only if youre saving for the nexus.
The trick is to play like you weren't playing the computer. Use hotkeys to flash around to units and buildings, always babysit your base while scouting every 4 seconds etc. I was really just making an argument becasue I think that my consistant use of the computer to train is why I suck. Though, I do still improve and get better, just still within the range of suck.
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Actually, playing in slower speeds will be helping your micro improve, which is to me much more important than apm, which comes with time anyway.
edit: I'm sorry if this was mentioned already, I didn't go through the 2,5 pages of the thread before replying.
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On September 02 2009 16:07 VorcePA wrote:Can a mod please change the title of the thread? And: Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 13:58 ella_guru wrote:
I think this is incredibly valid.
I'm a music major on the classical guitar and this is _the_ most common way to increase the speed of the fingers. The metronome method - Learn something perfect, flawless at a very slow speed, taking care of every detail. Then, go up two notches on the metronome, then down one, then up two, etc. If you dont rush this method, you can gain massive speed increases, sometimes double or more when the music requires it. Great musicians can play anything they normally play much faster. Your just increasing your limit, so you have even more breathing room. If you can have less large jumps in speed, I would totally do this.
Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect. This. Played classical music on the double bass for a good number of years. The way to get something down solid is to practice it, then speed it up past the speed you're supposed to play it at, so that at the "correct" speed, it's extremely easy.
The music analogy is a bad one, because you are essentially training muscle memory. A song does not change. A Starcraft match does.
This is not at all applicable to RTS games unless you are talking about someone who has never handled a mouse and keyboard in an RTS environment, perhaps someone who doesn't even have a handle on their hotkeys.
This won't help your game sense and multi-task rhythm much at all. Muscle memory in gaming is the first thing you understand when you start to play at a high level. It doesn't take someone long to be able to play a game without looking at their keyboard.
You can compare this to using a donut in the on deck circle. The bat isn't actually lighter and you don't actually swing it much faster (though you CAN increase bat speed with more repetition based donut use, but it is essentially a work out at that point) Its called deceleration training. Just like it can magically feel like you have much more control of the bat, and you might. It also throws off your natural rhythm (game timing/sense) and weight distribution. (which in this analogy could be compared to your multi-tasking rhythm... IE, where you spend your new found extra clicks.)
My hypothesis is that this won't do shit, and isn't some kind of hyperbolic time chamber. It is my opinion that in an RTS; mimicking the proper conditions is more important.
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Anyone know if you actually install Cheat Engine and use it on SC just to speed up in single player will have any effect on Iccup antihack, when the CE is off. I mean you still you install it and use it to modify the SC's memory...
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I don't think that increasing the speed of the game will increase you're apm, Why should it? Just because its played in a faster level it doesn't have to make you're "mind" faster.
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Oh god, for chris sake plz try it before giving any theories, because you all sound like you know everything... I'm getting sick of ppl saying that it will not improve XXX way or whatnot.
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I tried playing this yesterday and my apm actually went down from my usual ~170 to around 120. Then again i forgot to hotkey shit for most of the game  Planting mines with vultures makes me float so high in mins
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On September 02 2009 15:32 MoOnrai11 wrote:
Takes alot of emotional intellegence not to continue to cheat. So I wouldn't advise it for most.
So although in most of the games I play against the computer I like to Black Sheep Wall, that means it takes huge determination not to maphack against people? Haha.
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On September 02 2009 20:12 Sadistx wrote:I tried playing this yesterday and my apm actually went down from my usual ~170 to around 120. Then again i forgot to hotkey shit for most of the game Planting mines with vultures makes me float so high in mins
That means a lot of apm on hotkeys! ;P Almost like EAPM :p
Btw, as for those talking about mod memory, as far as I understand the program does not wok at sc memory level or app level, it alters the internal clock of the application against cpu cycle or somewhere along those lines. When I used it back in like '99, the 'speed gear' was simply a sliding bar that you can decrease/increase computer's clock vs real time, and it works at OS level, no option to be applicaiotn specific. I don't know how much the program has been updated since then.
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On September 02 2009 13:58 ella_guru wrote:
I think this is incredibly valid.
I'm a music major on the classical guitar and this is _the_ most common way to increase the speed of the fingers. The metronome method - Learn something perfect, flawless at a very slow speed, taking care of every detail. Then, go up two notches on the metronome, then down one, then up two, etc. If you dont rush this method, you can gain massive speed increases, sometimes double or more when the music requires it. Great musicians can play anything they normally play much faster. Your just increasing your limit, so you have even more breathing room. If you can have less large jumps in speed, I would totally do this.
Practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.
Edit : ^^ it seemed I was typing my response as you were. Cool that it made us chime up the same idea!
Actually, there is about a million analogies to make. Typing being one we can all relate to. I can type alright at about 80 wpm or so, but I could guaranteed no mistakes at 40 wpm.
Not even close to the same thing.
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Btw it's SOO fun to use this with other games (in single player obviously). I tried it with some HOMM3, Halo 1, WC3, Diablo 2 even. Especially in some games where you need to wait a long time or grind for money/exp, this is pretty entertaining to use. It's pretty challenging to play FPS too on 2x speed.
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definitely going to try this with !xspeed you can increase speed by smaller amounts than x2 if you decire
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how can you call this HACKING if this tool actually makes the game harder for you? ;p
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I usually watch several replays in x2. When i play after that i think all is sloooowwwwlyyyy XD
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On September 02 2009 15:32 MoOnrai11 wrote:
Takes alot of emotional intellegence not to continue to cheat. So I wouldn't advise it for most.
Actually it's the other way around.
Human nature is by its nature curious to everything. So the longer you try to avoid them, the more curious they will be.
But it has nothing to do with cheating. It's a hacking tool that makes ur cpu goes faster. Dunno how it works but it's pretty neat.
On September 02 2009 20:38 potchip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 20:12 Sadistx wrote:I tried playing this yesterday and my apm actually went down from my usual ~170 to around 120. Then again i forgot to hotkey shit for most of the game Planting mines with vultures makes me float so high in mins That means a lot of apm on hotkeys! ;P Almost like EAPM :p Btw, as for those talking about mod memory, as far as I understand the program does not wok at sc memory level or app level, it alters the internal clock of the application against cpu cycle or somewhere along those lines. When I used it back in like '99, the 'speed gear' was simply a sliding bar that you can decrease/increase computer's clock vs real time, and it works at OS level, no option to be applicaiotn specific. I don't know how much the program has been updated since then.
It has been updated : Everything is faster including starcraft when you put the speed gear option to x2.
Doesn't work on bnet though. It will even bug on some part.
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On September 02 2009 15:32 MoOnrai11 wrote:
Takes alot of emotional intellegence not to continue to cheat. So I wouldn't advise it for most.
This cheat doesn't work against a real opponent. As somebody said, you'd just desync from server and be instantly dropped.
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I actually support palying vs a computer, if you want to get to know a build order better or perfect it even more, by playing a computer will further strengthen your knowledge of a build order. You can argue that playing people is the same, but by playing a computer you actually will view the game in a different view, and learn better that way.
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On September 02 2009 18:11 IceCube wrote:
Anyone know if you actually install Cheat Engine and use it on SC just to speed up in single player will have any effect on Iccup antihack, when the CE is off. I mean you still you install it and use it to modify the SC's memory...
You'll be fine. Anti-hack checks for memory modifications, not suspicious stuff on your desktop.
Also, to all the music analogies out there: I completely agree and would recommend refining my method to be less a bajillion times of one then a bajillion times the other speed, and more back and forth to maintain precision.
There is, however, the key difference between SC and music. There is an upper limit to how fast you'd reasonably be expected to play the concerto. Playing it faster than that will not get you a louder applause. That is training for precision.
The more valid analogy is the one I have mentioned, to swimming or sprinting. We are training for speed. Thus, larger increments of speed increase should be all right. The theory is that it is much more useful to practice precision at high speed than to practice artificially speeding up your apm by spamming.
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United States42519 Posts
I'd like to use this against a human on hamachi. My multitasking holds me back a lot but I rarely feel pressured into upping my apm above 120. If anyone wants to do this please pm me.
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Feel free to pm me. Make a network, my username is Eggplant.
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On September 02 2009 15:32 MoOnrai11 wrote:
Takes alot of emotional intellegence not to continue to cheat. So I wouldn't advise it for most.
Hi ex-cheater, have you come clean at last?
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Lol. too much drama. I blame the title.
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god what the fuck...
I love how every single person who bashes training like this has NOT ONCE TRIED IT yet.
They write big posts with big words about how because of this and that it is not likely that this will do shit, so therefore it's not gonna help at all, when they could have used that time to actually try it out for themselves.
lol, just lol.
Sometimes reading TL makes me sad.
I'm installing speed gear now and I'm gonna try this out, thanks a lot wok.
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^^Yep, the responses are a little aggressive.
To the fellow who thought the music analogy was no good, I'd like to clarify a bit.
Starcraft IS not ONLY muscle memory, but is also not ONLY strategy and reaction. Music is the same. Jazz music is heavily improvised. The tune Giant Steps by Coltrane is a great example - No one can even touch his that because his technique was so good. If I'm soloing, and the harmony changes unexpectedly, I need to react. All the technique in the world doesnt get you anywhere , both in SC and music. But if you have no technique/mechanics, you'll never be able to pull off the double drop while decoying at the front gates.
I just think that this is an effective way to train (having done it) one aspect of your game. If you dont, that is all well and good, but you should do your best to try it with an open mind first.
Cheerio.
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can anyone throw up a guide on how to install and then use some of these programs? I have absolutely no idea on how to make any of this work. This really sounds like a valid idea to me, and i was wondering if someone would be kind enough to show me how to install and or use this thing?
Thanks in advance
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1. Google cheat engine 5.5.
2. Install
3. You might have to enable "show advanced options" in options.
4. Click Process and select the game you want to speed up, it'll have a starcraft icon usually
5. Enable "speedhack" checkbox
6. Select speed
7. ?????
8. Profit
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Using speedgear is a lot easier than using cheatengine IMO.
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On September 03 2009 01:31 Nevuk wrote:
Using speedgear is a lot easier than using cheatengine IMO.
yeah using speedgear you just install, start, you can choose what speed you wish.
It's only a trial with 30 uses but surely there's a way around that...
Anyways, I just tried this and it's freaking great.
I just had like 4 games against the comp, then I tried normal speed and really it all seemed sooo slow. I checked speed gear again if it really was back to 1x.
Then a few sec later I quit the program just to be sure it's not slowing anything down, cause the animations suddenly seemed a little laggy too.
My apm was automatically quite a bit higher (wok mentioned his isn't but his already was 250 apm, which I consider very high already [mine is only 160-170] and I was already a little more coordinated, I always transfer drones to my natural too late, this time I did not. So screw all that "it fucks up your muscle memory/ fucks up your timing" bs.
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This is a very interesting way to practice mechanics...but I dont see how one could micro at a higher speed. Gamesense wont be improved and micro would be pointless imo
Not bashing the idea of using this as a training tool. for instance versus a computer this will allow you to practice builds, splitting workers asap and things like that. Maybe this will help some
The way i work on my mechanics is to play vs someone better than me, and make the games last as long as possible like 30-40 minutes giving me an opportunity to play off 3+ bases, getting familiar with the builds, trimming excess clicks, making things more efficient imo
Practice practice practice
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On September 03 2009 01:54 2on2 wrote:
This is a very interesting way to practice mechanics...but I dont see how one could micro at a higher speed. Gamesense wont be improved and micro would be pointless imo
Not bashing the idea of using this as a training tool. for instance versus a computer this will allow you to practice builds, splitting workers asap and things like that. Maybe this will help some
The way i work on my mechanics is to play vs someone better than me, and make the games last as long as possible like 30-40 minutes giving me an opportunity to play off 3+ bases, getting familiar with the builds, trimming excess clicks, making things more efficient imo
Practice practice practice
No this obviously won't improve game sense.
And it won't improve micro by itself, but I'm sure unless youre already amazingly fast this will simply help you be faster. This will mean more multitasking, and you will have more time to micro/macro.
The way you suggest to train sounds great, but first of all not everybody has a practice partner who is better and is willing to play worse so that every game will be such super long game.
Secondly, it's not like using this to practice every now and then, doesn't mean you can still mass games. Playing a few games vs comp like this doesn't take much time at all, because, guess what, every game is twice is fast 
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This is fucking cool, and anyone who doesn't think so is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
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United States42519 Posts
I'm setting up wippien + Show Spoiler +://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101118
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Cheating=modifying=cheating=hacking=not allowed=ban
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i used it some times in the past but that doesnt really help.
i've beaten computers on x5, but the thing is its easier than vs a normal player.
this method will make you just produce units as fast as you can and attack move in their base because comps dont micro.
you dont need to upgrade,micro,harrass, take more than 2 expansion, make probes constantly.
the way you win on x5 is just getting 1 expo and make some probes and then just push units out of ur 8 gates all the time without doing anything else. thats it. it doesn't help.
you would need to force urself to do everything you would do against an intelligent player so that it helps. but you wont, because its not needed against the comp
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United States42519 Posts
On September 03 2009 04:14 SanguineToss wrote:
Cheating=modifying=cheating=hacking=not allowed=ban
You can't use this vs a player without their consent. Cheating has to be nonconsensual or no-one is getting exploited.
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Lol this even works with flashgames on the internet ! i gotta find that old multitask game
my score can be insane !
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United States42519 Posts
On September 03 2009 04:22 MasterReY wrote:
i used it some times in the past but that doesnt really help.
i've beaten computers on x5, but the thing is its easier than vs a normal player.
this method will make you just produce units as fast as you can and attack move in their base because comps dont micro.
you dont need to upgrade,micro,harrass, take more than 2 expansion, make probes constantly.
the way you win on x5 is just getting 1 expo and make some probes and then just push units out of ur 8 gates all the time without doing anything else. thats it. it doesn't help.
you would need to force urself to do everything you would do against an intelligent player so that it helps. but you wont, because its not needed against the comp
I intend to use this against humans on 1.2x or something similar. Enough to push me but not enough to make me start dropping useful actions in an attempt to prioritise.
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On September 02 2009 20:38 potchip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 20:12 Sadistx wrote:I tried playing this yesterday and my apm actually went down from my usual ~170 to around 120. Then again i forgot to hotkey shit for most of the game Planting mines with vultures makes me float so high in mins That means a lot of apm on hotkeys! ;P Almost like EAPM :p Btw, as for those talking about mod memory, as far as I understand the program does not wok at sc memory level or app level, it alters the internal clock of the application against cpu cycle or somewhere along those lines. When I used it back in like '99, the 'speed gear' was simply a sliding bar that you can decrease/increase computer's clock vs real time, and it works at OS level, no option to be applicaiotn specific. I don't know how much the program has been updated since then.
Cheatengine is application specific.
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What about the larvae spawn rate?
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At first I thought it was about cheating some train , like riding without a ticket lol
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Shauni! :D You're so pro, yes you are <3
anyway, on topic:
Anwer to "what about ______?"
the answer will be "yes! It too will be 2x!"
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On September 03 2009 04:22 MasterReY wrote:
i used it some times in the past but that doesnt really help.
i've beaten computers on x5, but the thing is its easier than vs a normal player.
this method will make you just produce units as fast as you can and attack move in their base because comps dont micro.
you dont need to upgrade,micro,harrass, take more than 2 expansion, make probes constantly.
the way you win on x5 is just getting 1 expo and make some probes and then just push units out of ur 8 gates all the time without doing anything else. thats it. it doesn't help.
you would need to force urself to do everything you would do against an intelligent player so that it helps. but you wont, because its not needed against the comp
Well I have no intention of beating the comp, what I did was just to practice my build orders, like I'd do if I played a computer on normal speed.
Having simply the goal of defeating the comp seems like a waste of time to me.
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You should have made the OP into a sonnet, Mr. Bulldog. It seems like a good idea, though. Sure, it's not going to make you jump ranks (I think that's why a lot of people keep on mentioning "massgaming" - there is no substitute for experience), but I bet it will make your gameplay a lot smoother and more comfortable.
EDIT: Just tried this 2x seems okay, but 7.5x ... holy shit... I can't even double tap a hotkey to center on a building... But even on 2x, a mouse speed that seems perfectly fine in a normal game seems hellishly slow. Anyways, really cool, wok. I'll try this some more when I get home just practicing BOs or something. By the way, I'm going to hunt you down when I somehow manage to fry my computer.
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Hahahaa. Thanks for the 10/5 troll rating on my other post :p and I should! *starts to rewrite*
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On September 03 2009 06:52 MoOnrai11 wrote:
I appreciate your post.
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On September 03 2009 08:00 wok wrote: I appreciate your post.
thats a phylosophical way to express his feelings toward his experience with the training tool you have offered us.
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lol. :p No... I'm not trying to be mean! I just thought it was hilarious that of his 3 posts, at least one was blank. hahaha.
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I used to play 2x wc3 obs.
Trust me, it only screws you up.
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You can't mutalisk micro on anything higher than 2x...unless you have over 500 apm or something...
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Muta micro is just too easy and powerful at 2x. just A move anywhere and mutas attack nearly instantly when marines come close enough. So if you want to do muta micro I would not suggest modding the speed.
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This is more of a challenge to yourself than training or practice vs other players. For 1 the comp sucks no matter what. 2, this requires a whole new skill set than a regular game. 3, none of this is applicable to a human player.
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Just curious (maybe this has already been answered): what would happen if you tried to play against someone on x2 speed while he was running the .exe at normal speed?
+ Show Spoiler +Would it even be possible?
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On September 03 2009 09:22 CharlieMurphy wrote:
This is more of a challenge to yourself than training or practice vs other players. For 1 the comp sucks no matter what. 2, this requires a whole new skill set than a regular game. 3, none of this is applicable to a human player.
have you actually tried it?
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United States42519 Posts
I played a few games of this vs Pads. I usually feel rushed, as if I'm doing everything a second late, late game when it comes to multitasking whereas on 1.3x speed I felt like that midgame. It punishes you for basic errors like not using the f keys for saving workers too. I felt it was helpful for forcing me to adapt to more actions, with pre-emptive pylons for psi and checking gates more often. No more helpful than loading up a save game of the late game and playing it over and over but even so, it's good practice for multitasking.
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On September 02 2009 13:58 ella_guru wrote:
I think this is incredibly valid.
I'm a music major on the classical guitar and this is _the_ most common way to increase the speed of the fingers. The metronome method - Learn something perfect, flawless at a very slow speed, taking care of every detail. Then, go up two notches on the metronome, then down one, then up two, etc. If you dont rush this method, you can gain massive speed increases, sometimes double or more when the music requires it. Great musicians can play anything they normally play much faster. Your just increasing your limit, so you have even more breathing room. If you can have less large jumps in speed, I would totally do this.
Practice doesnt make perfect. Perfect Practice makes perfect.
Edit : ^^ it seemed I was typing my response as you were. Cool that it made us chime up the same idea!
Actually, there is about a million analogies to make. Typing being one we can all relate to. I can type alright at about 80 wpm or so, but I could guaranteed no mistakes at 40 wpm.
i do the same thing when learning a new song on bass or whatever
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Sweet. Recommend closing thread because hacking is 100% not tolerated.
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On September 03 2009 12:59 Eggplant wrote:
Sweet. Recommend closing thread because hacking is 100% not tolerated.
Try reading the OP first. 
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I am the OP. I just got banned. Lol.
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United States42519 Posts
The other program gives the user an unfair advantage. This mod does not. One is cheating, the other is not. That said, you might get banned for multiple accounts.
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To be expected. Hey Kwark, pm me some contact info if you want the completed version of that click fixer. Stupid me seems to have a habit of trying to improve things that people don't want to be improved. :p
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Just pointing this out... LRM team used to use this to train for clanwars. So, it's been done before.
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That sounds fantastic. I guess I shouldn't have to do this with a brown bag over my head anymore.
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I wouldnt consider this cheating since it can only be used in training or mutalaly agreed matches.
I tried it at 2x speed vs computer. it was kinda fun playing starcraft where everything instantly happens really fast
Its also a great program to try on other games or even java games on the internet.
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On September 03 2009 13:28 Eggplant wrote:
I am the OP. I just got banned. Lol.
Good thing he opened this thread before getting banned...
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I you use this with entropy2.0 AI you will have a decent challenge because the AI uses standard pushes. Not as good as a real player but you get strong by making your weakest link stronger, not your strongest link strongest. So if you are C- player like me and you have really bad mechanics the this is the best training for you. Dont believe me? i've never been able to pass the 3400 mark. So if this season i get to C or C+ i'll know that the training has paid the price.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On September 03 2009 22:26 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 13:28 Eggplant wrote:
I am the OP. I just got banned. Lol. Good thing he opened this thread before getting banned...
LMAO. Making an account when you are banned and then admitting it rofl
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Yeah. As a clarification, before getting back onto topic, I already had Eggplant, then made wok, hoping to switch over permanently. Unfortunately, request to remove Eggplant was never honored until today, so I did have the 2nd account through which I made those posts. The 2nd account wasn't a response to the ban, nor was it a secret.
On topic: I really want to try this with entropy2.0. Standard computer pushes are hard enough at 2x. (Target firing against m&m with hydras or goons is seriously nontrivial!)
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On September 04 2009 13:33 wok wrote:
Yeah. As a clarification, before getting back onto topic, I already had Eggplant, then made wok, hoping to switch over permanently. Unfortunately, request to remove Eggplant was never honored until today, so I did have the 2nd account through which I made those posts. The 2nd account wasn't a response to the ban, nor was it a secret.
On topic: I really want to try this with entropy2.0. Standard computer pushes are hard enough at 2x. (Target firing against m&m with hydras or goons is seriously nontrivial!)
Entropy isn't really that much harder. Racine's rebel's is impossible though.
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On September 04 2009 13:46 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2009 13:33 wok wrote:
Yeah. As a clarification, before getting back onto topic, I already had Eggplant, then made wok, hoping to switch over permanently. Unfortunately, request to remove Eggplant was never honored until today, so I did have the 2nd account through which I made those posts. The 2nd account wasn't a response to the ban, nor was it a secret.
On topic: I really want to try this with entropy2.0. Standard computer pushes are hard enough at 2x. (Target firing against m&m with hydras or goons is seriously nontrivial!)
Entropy isn't really that much harder. Racine's rebel's is impossible though.
Really? I find that the computer rushes are super hard :|. Could you link me to that? Just want to see how much more impossible that is.
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I have tried it... on 2x... CRAP... On the first try i thought wtf.. it is making me worse.. then i decided to play vs pc on normal speed... OMG it improves your EAPM a looooot and your decisions will be made more quicker... I had my best APM ever..
Though i think that the cons of this thing is that you only play against computers... who are so bad...
But still you can do the whatever build you want :D
I say everyone should try it... Also those who say it is cheating... HELL no its not! Why is it cheating? :O Cuz you are playing faster? EVERYONE can do it, and its not something vs another, its vs computers... xD
TRY IT! gl
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I think this is a good way to improve your reflex.
I have tried it on 1.5x, after 10 games, I change it back to default, and I,m starting to look at everything in slow motion now, never before in my life I have witness vultures with Ion Upgrade moved soo freakin slow.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
Does this work for multiplayer if all the players have 2x speed on?
Edit: Just tried it. It works
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Does this work for multiplayer if all the players have 2x speed on?
Yup, though I,m pretty sure you must turn off antihack first. Its ok if you want to play it on LAN with friends, but I dont recommend you tried it on ICCUP.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
Anyone want to 1v1 with 2x speed on East? Preferably with chaos and within D+ ~ C range
whisper me- AnyTime[gm]@USEast
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On September 04 2009 23:49 Kyomaru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2009 13:46 Nevuk wrote:On September 04 2009 13:33 wok wrote:
Yeah. As a clarification, before getting back onto topic, I already had Eggplant, then made wok, hoping to switch over permanently. Unfortunately, request to remove Eggplant was never honored until today, so I did have the 2nd account through which I made those posts. The 2nd account wasn't a response to the ban, nor was it a secret.
On topic: I really want to try this with entropy2.0. Standard computer pushes are hard enough at 2x. (Target firing against m&m with hydras or goons is seriously nontrivial!)
Entropy isn't really that much harder. Racine's rebel's is impossible though. Really? I find that the computer rushes are super hard :|. Could you link me to that? Just want to see how much more impossible that is.
http://www.broodwarai.com/
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On September 02 2009 12:06 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2009 12:01 wok wrote:
Interesting point about the harrass. The computer doesn't harrass. This is very different from playing fastest forever because all that is is basically "operation cwal." This increases movement speed, mining speed, fire rate, everything. No im talking of overall game speed. I.E Fastest(SPEED) into Faster(SPEED) i.e the actual game slows down which for everyone i know it is hard for them to play after playing at a higher speed which would be one of my concerns(besides the hacking of course) but with sc2 coming out in the end this doesnt even matter
But even if it does feel like you are in slow motion then you can still keep up your macro, so sacrificing the feeling of being slow means you can macro/ micro more/ better. See what i mean?
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On September 05 2009 02:49 l10f wrote:
Anyone want to 1v1 with 2x speed on East? Preferably with chaos and within D+ ~ C range
whisper me- AnyTime[gm]@USEast
I wouldn't do that. I tried it with a friend on europe and 2 days later my account got closed due to 3rd party software use . Thankfully they didnt ban my cd key.
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l10f
United States3241 Posts
On September 05 2009 09:22 Thats_The_Spirit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2009 02:49 l10f wrote:
Anyone want to 1v1 with 2x speed on East? Preferably with chaos and within D+ ~ C range
whisper me- AnyTime[gm]@USEast I wouldn't do that. I tried it with a friend on europe and 2 days later my account got closed due to 3rd party software use . Thankfully they didnt ban my cd key.
Nooo I played a game already.
And not recommending this to ANYONE even if it's not on bnet.
A lot of side effects after a 30 minute long (15 minutes) game. My arms are shaking. Everything around me is going so fast. I'm so hyper. My hearts beating so fast. I have no idea what I'm writing. It's like I just drank a 2 liter bottle of red bull or something.
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This is not cheating, but it's not a good idea. It may make you faster, but it's artificial and might not last. It sounds similar to playing with operation cwal on or something. Your apm might shoot up but I can't imagine that playing faster would make you better than playing at a slower speed =/
Your knowledge of the game and of build orders etc. is unaffected and this is more important in my opinion.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/io9/2009/01/nuclear_explosion.jpg)
