EPT[spoilers] The next generation - Page 9
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:11 latent wrote: I'm Asian. Does that mean I can understand the game better than you now? Also, as much as I dislike Idra, I'm guessing he has a better idea of some things than you. oh really? hey idra, what do you think? | ||
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latent
United States428 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:11 Railz wrote: I'm sure people were thinking that a 'peak' existed with babe ruth too sir. It is all perspective. If you can't prove anything, then your debate is strawman and pretty much a waste of space. It isn't even an opinionated debate with you because you don't even provide where you draw these inferences from. There are companies out there that are paid good money to do extremely detailed analyses of players' swings. There was a recent article on ESPN about one such company which analyzed players' swings to determine the ratio of "perfect" swings that they produced. Manny Ramirez was cited as being the best at 6/10, with Pujols, ARod, and...I forget the 4th guy at about 5/10. They can use their software to demonstrate the improvement overall of players as the decades passsed. Basically, now that baseball has gone global, we've begun to reach performance peaks. The best players now are likely to continue to be among the best ever, whereas the best players back then....not so much. There are physical limits to our human endeavors. Olympic records, although still being broken, have begun to plateau over the last couple of decades (look it up, fascinating read). | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:12 koreasilver wrote: People used to think Nada's SK Terran was the perfect TvZ. People learned to beat it. 2hatch Zerg play became almost extinct for long period, and it has had a strong resurgence since the Hwasin vs Jaedong MSL semifinals and the Flash vs Jaedong GOM S1 finals. Terran mech in TvZ was almost extinct for an extremely long time, and it reemerged. The 2archon speedlot push was considered by some to be the "perfect" PvZ build not too long ago, and basically every Zerg player knows how to play against it. I'm not sure how the game has ceased to show change and creativity. The general level of ZvZ has increased to ridiculous heights recently, in example. new generation ZvZ is a beautiful thing unfortunately the advancements go virtually unnoticed, because it's ZvZ | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:16 latent wrote: There are companies out there that are paid good money to do extremely detailed analyses of players' swings. There was a recent article on ESPN about one such company which analyzed players' swings to determine the ratio of "perfect" swings that they produced. Manny Ramirez was cited as being the best at 6/10, with Pujols, ARod, and...I forget the 4th guy at about 5/10. They can use their software to demonstrate the improvement overall of players as the decades passsed. Basically, now that baseball has gone global, we've begun to reach performance peaks. The best players now are likely to continue to be among the best ever, whereas the best players back then....not so much. There are physical limits to our human endeavors. Olympic records, although still being broken, have begun to plateau over the last couple of decades (look it up, fascinating read). another long-winded post that has absolutely no relevance to professional starcraft | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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EvoChamber
France2505 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:17 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: new generation ZvZ is a beautiful thing unfortunately the advancements go virtually unnoticed, because it's ZvZ i agree, they (the advances) get noticed only when they spill over into other matchups. There's no way Jaedong could have scourged like 4 of Stork's sairs in three seconds of game 2 of EVER OSL if he hadn't been doing the same thing to mutas for so long. patrol micro these days is beginning to spill over as well, it's a lovely thing to see. | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:16 latent wrote: There are companies out there that are paid good money to do extremely detailed analyses of players' swings. There was a recent article on ESPN about one such company which analyzed players' swings to determine the ratio of "perfect" swings that they produced. Manny Ramirez was cited as being the best at 6/10, with Pujols, ARod, and...I forget the 4th guy at about 5/10. They can use their software to demonstrate the improvement overall of players as the decades passsed. Basically, now that baseball has gone global, we've begun to reach performance peaks. The best players now are likely to continue to be among the best ever, whereas the best players back then....not so much. There are physical limits to our human endeavors. Olympic records, although still being broken, have begun to plateau over the last couple of decades (look it up, fascinating read). And yet, Chess and Warfare is never the same twice. Good thing physical peaks aren't really up for consideration when talking about Starcraft. I'm glad you know so much about things like baseball ball, but that really is the one of sports farthest from SC you could possible get. Fantasy has been creating a new game almost bi-weekly for lucky fans to watch or if you want to compare it to the new Yankees Stadium having a wind tunnel effect on the ball causing some insanely high scoring games - the game is never the same, so your analogy holds no ground. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:19 koreasilver wrote: It's a shame. Ever since Jaedong stormed onto the scene, ZvZ has become so interesting with all the variations of builds that came up, the return of overgas builds, and fucked up improvements in micro. it is a shame. jaedong excels in zvz because he can play any build and any style with magnificent skill. however, a lot of the things he has introduced or revived have become common among other zergs, and they're bringing their own stuff to the table as well in an effort to combat jaedong and his imitators. jaedong's dominance has brought zvz through an incredible advancement over the last year | ||
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ShoGunBo
Romania55 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
ZvZ build theory has become so complex nowadays, and I can not comprehend how some matchups work now. | ||
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latent
United States428 Posts
It's just like I said with Korea having expanded to the far reaches of the country. There are no new talent pools to access from (unless SC2 goes global). | ||
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Railz
United States1449 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:27 latent wrote: Um...there aren't too many "new" strategies popping up in chess. Also I don't think anyone will dispute Kasparov was the greatest chess player known to play the sport professionally. With the emergence of international communication and travel, in the form of planes, phones, tv, etc., the greatest minds were all given relatively equal chances to flourish in a game of pure strategy. It's just like I said with Korea having expanded to the far reaches of the country. There are no new talent pools to access from (unless SC2 goes global). No it is nothing like you said. People still play and watch Chess even though, you and your great opinion says there already was a best guy so why should anyone else play. I don't understand where you are getting this, "no new talent pool" bullcrap. New rookies come in and topple older veterans on a seasonally basis. I mean, hell, they just finished a draft and two foreigners were over there this year. You and I have must have a different meaning because the term "new talent pool" means people who are new and good at the game. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:27 latent wrote: Um...there aren't too many "new" strategies popping up in chess. Also I don't think anyone will dispute Kasparov was the greatest chess player known to play the sport professionally. With the emergence of international communication and travel, in the form of planes, phones, tv, etc., the greatest minds were all given relatively equal chances to flourish in a game of pure strategy. It's just like I said with Korea having expanded to the far reaches of the country. There are no new talent pools to access from (unless SC2 goes global). the countless B-teamers and amateurs (where every single progamer started) who are not mechanically up to par yet don't count? there's a MASSIVE amount of uncovered potential in pro SC right now, moreso than ever before so again we go back to you assuming that what's going on in the game right now is the peak of what's possible, when THERE'S A PLAYER NAMED FANTASY PROVING YOU WRONG EVERY TIME HE STEPS INTO THE BOOTH | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
Starcraft has been played in every corner of South Korea ever since it bloomed along with the PC Bang phenomena. Starcraft in South Korea has always had a very large talent pool. People you know, continued to get better and still continue to get better. Even the general level of skill in foreigners have increased tremendously over time. | ||
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latent
United States428 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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latent
United States428 Posts
On April 23 2009 17:33 koreasilver wrote: Wut. Starcraft has been played in every corner of South Korea ever since it bloomed along with the PC Bang phenomena. Starcraft in South Korea has always had a very large talent pool. People you know, continued to get better and still continue to get better. Even the general level of skill in foreigners have increased tremendously over time. Starcraft hasn't been played TO SUCH A COMPETITIVE LEVEL as it is now. Just listen to Boxer's story about how his parents didn't understand what a "pro gamer" actually did. The situation held true for many families even in later generations. No one considered pro gaming a "legitimate" thing to do with one's life, and that stigma towards it lasted for quite a while. | ||
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