On March 28 2009 21:33 haduken wrote: can people who call this cheating stfu please? your opinion alone doesn't make it cheating okay?
Its banned in every major tournament and you don't think its cheating? It gives an unfair advantage to whoever is using it. I can understand if everyone made it like the default english keyboard (which koreans use). They use the english hotkeys but to change things like saying 'o' is too far for build observer and changing it to 'b' is cheating.
Not everyone uses the same keyboard, so probably half the people you play cheat.
The fact that this thread is still open kind of says something about the general opinion about this 'cheat' on this website, eh??
Its not about keyboard lol. Progamers all use some cheap generic kt-35.
It is clearly cheating and will continue to be cheating until sanctioned by organizations like WCG and Kespa. I'm happy that this feature will be in SC2 though, since it is a good feature. But that is no reason to cheat in brood war. Like what about using multi selection hacks in bw using the argument that it is a good feature that should be in every RTS and will be in SC2? =p. Sad that this isn't deleted imo.
It's cheating in competitive gaming, which will make it cheating in iccup. But bnet has no rules at all. You can gas stack, obs over turret all you want =P
Under 2 min. mark games: [...] admins are obligated to give him -100 points penalty for 1st offense and icnrease[sic] it by a factor of 100 for enxt[sic] ones (2nd -200 3rd -300 etc.).
I don't feel it's cheating. What if you move to a foreign country where they only sell keyboards with a different key setup? You would probably prefer to set hotkeys back to what they were. Also you can already do this in Windows by changing the keyboard layout to different languages.
4 International Gosu Protoss Players are playing a game. These guys are loyal purists who like most of us frown upon cheating and haxs. These particular players happen to be English, German, Spanish, and German. Now when these guys want to build probes from their Nexus, they hit hotkeys as follows:
English = p = p<1>Build <3>P<1>robe<0> German = a = a<1><3>A<1>dler bauen<0> Spanish = b = b<1>Construir <3>b<1>uitre<0> French = v = v<1>Construire <3>V<1>autour<0>
So the English player has a clear disadvantage over the other users in this situation. If reindexing hotkeys is considered cheating, then everyone and ALL languages should be using the same keys which they aren't.
PS : As far as I know, it's not explicitly forbidden in any big competition nor on iccup. I'm not talking about progaming obviously, the logistics of changing and checking what exactly is changed in their version of the patch_rt.mpq before each game is a bit too much, and they're already so trained on the current English hotkeys it would probably be a waste of time for them anyway.
Also, a couple of years ago, when Ashur brought Keycraft to the public, or when this guide was on gosugamers.net, there was no such outcry. As this comes up again every now and then, the reaction progressively becomes more and more outraged and extreme, as if there isn't even any matter for discussion about the subject. It's sad really, I feel the community is being less and less mature and more and more "old and cranky" in an "in my time we had to select all units one by one, and the hotkeys to build them all required a 3 keys combination" way. It's not a good way to go, it sort of reminds me of the color-blind thread in the SC2 forum.
On March 27 2009 20:03 Yaqoob wrote: This is banned in any competitive tournament so I find its pretty stupid and it gives an unfair advantage online.
Q: Can you be banned for cheating? A: By Blizzard? Maybe, but I've been using it for around 5 years and haven't been banned. If you do get banned, sorry, but it's not my problem and I will do absolutely nothing to help you about it. By competitions? In person, sure, you probably can't use it at something like WCG. Online, they have absolutely no way of knowing, so they can't really ban you for it.
Pretty sad imo
Is it also an unfair advantage if you use a different language version and hence have different hotkeys?
There is ONE BIG reason you shouldnt consider changing hotkeys as cheating:
EVERY other language distribution of scbw uses different hotkeys than the original english scbw.
I for example have to use such a foreign edition.
so what? is it imba by me or for me to HAVE TO use different keysets depending on which language distribution is installed on the comp im playing a game on?
furthermore, if i were a professional gamer, which thankfully i am not, i would consider it unfair would i have to use english scbw hotkeys when i played YEARS on different ones (my own language kit)
so stop it ppl, you dont REALLY want to go into the 'but he could start looking for a language version where the hotkeys are aranged better then english scbw' argument, do you?
hope that enlightens that this(having language-adjusted hotkeys[they did it for better memorizing imo]) is an intended feature by blizzard (before they knew scbw would develop into esports though)
On March 29 2009 06:35 Cheerio wrote: I wonder what the moderators' response to this thread will be...
Do you suppose that in two days no moderators have seen this thread?
On March 29 2009 02:37 MyLostTemple wrote: if i understand correctly all professional gamer tournaments require the english key setup.
You mean all Korean progamer events, right? Do all the Chinese players use alternate hotkeys such that it's not inconvenient for past events like China vs Korea showmatch, or what? How does that work for WCG, as people from Germany may, for instance, use German hotkeys at home?
News flash, you can customize hotkeys in Wc3/TFT and its just a simple text document edit you can make to the folder that blizz implemented. Nothing wrong with changing hotkeys stop being fags.
Aside from all the trolling, I don't think many would need/use this, IMO playing StarCraft for ~6 years I've had no problems with hotkeys, because when you've been playing for so long, the hotkeys come naturally, no point in changing them when you know them like the back of your hand.
On March 29 2009 02:06 Bajadulce wrote: .... English = p = p<1>Build <3>P<1>robe<0> German = a = a<1><3>A<1>dler bauen<0> Spanish = b = b<1>Construir <3>b<1>uitre<0> => fail Buitre= Vulture, Sonda=Probe French = v = v<1>Construire <3>V<1>autour<0> ....
I have read the thread and i came to this: high number of posters= its cheating because it gives you unfair advantage, hax, ban, gay etc. medium number of posters= its not cheating, because diff languages... etc, etc.
My oppinion: its cheating just because blizzard defines cheating as using third party programs that change the software, its just a problem of law wording/definition. Its not dishonest at all, and the main disscusion should be if it does give you an unfair advantage or not. And hell no.
Saying that its unfair because not all people know about this/cant access it => wrong, the fact that this guide is here is proof enough. If my opponent doesnt know about this its not my fault, thats like saying that its unfair that not all people know how to stop 2 gate with zerg or anykind of guided strat. Or its like saying that its unfair to glitch workers because not all people know or that its unfair that i can check my game with bwchart if my opponent doesnt know about it.
Saying that its unfair because you should play the game "as it is": already stated, the game is not "as it is" always, there are different languages and more importantly about hotkeys hardware can change the game legally. There are custom keyboards, i can remap my win keys (and that is no hack even in definition form), mouse speed/accuracy its not the same etc.
So im still waiting to see a logically stated post why is this an unfair advantage.
EPT
