EPTOn March 31 2009 01:16 Piste wrote:
Oh shit please make this to not work on iccup....
please!
Oh shit please make this to not work on iccup....
please!
yeah, im sure python_max will invest a shitload of time to prevent such a minor threat, haha.
[G] Remapping Hotkeys (without Keycraft) - Page 7
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
yeah, im sure python_max will invest a shitload of time to prevent such a minor threat, haha. | ||
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Piste
6179 Posts
On March 31 2009 02:15 WhuazGoodNjaggah wrote: yeah, im sure python_max will invest a shitload of time to prevent such a minor threat, haha. I was talking to the creator of this tool -_- | ||
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StrikerX22
United States41 Posts
The simplicity of it is this: *Those who have non-English hotkeys should be able to make them match English ones, to make it fair. *Yes, it's technically cheating, and gives a small but significant advantage (especially for non-pros), but only when not matching the opponent's (or the normal) key-set. *If allowed, then it would likely be near impossible to stop others from using it differently. The only way I could see this as being allowed in official settings is if it was somehow controlled through ICCup or whatnot officially so that you could only set keys to different language sets. It's very true that different keyboards etc (especially things like dvorak) can have a significant impact on play as well, so that alone should validate language mapping. Mapping for further convenience is definitely cheating, though I wouldn't be against it in casual matches, which are for fun, and it would advocate that without a noticeable difference. The best solution to this would likely be to just consider it not cheating under official settings (I don't mean bnet), and let people have their way with it, and also put it in with ICCup files. It will be in SC2 because it is a good feature that many games have, and so should SC1 inherently. But it doesn't. It also doesn't have upward ramps and such, but it should. Those are allowed because they encourage fairness. The more customization, the better, as long as it's still the same number of keys and everyone knows about it and can use it. The point is to make the game more accessible without unnecessary things standing in the way, like large key distances. There really is nothing else to say beyond this. | ||
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cyronc
218 Posts
sry piste you quite dont get it: pianoman didnt create any 'tool': he just pointed out a method many modders use to give new names to units (and altering the hotkeys, cuz if you only put in names without proper tags in stat_txt.tbl then the unit will have NO hotkeys) there is no tool used here and there isnt any altering of code involved in the process, its only the gamedata scbw reads from and processes that is changed, there is NO memory editing at work, NO runtime third-party-program as well! only some ascii chars within a text file (an arrayed non-plain-text file which contains plain-text strings to be more precise) are changed. so pianoman has no means of making this METHOD (not tool) not work with iCCup in fact its nothing other than a creation of your own minilocalisation of scbw to your own wierd language i could rename zerglings to lovebombers (in red color) for example (just to point out whats happening here) as long as only the stat_txt.tbl is involved and only strings are changed, none deleted, there is no game system changing involved its only a human-interface-change (something maphacks for example are not since they alter the amount of information the abuser gets, which isnt the case here at all) btw i dont use this, would cause too much relearning from my language-specific hotkeys which i used for years now, but i think its valid | ||
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MuR)Ernu
Finland768 Posts
Then everyone would use english keys anyway, except some people who dont care enough. | ||
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lgd-swifty
Poland10 Posts
Very true, if you want to be a competitive gamer, then it's better to practice on default english keys, than go through the shortcut. | ||
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WhuazGoodJaggah
Lesotho777 Posts
On March 31 2009 16:24 MuR)Ernu wrote: Whatever. Just make it so that offline tournaments require the english keyset. Then everyone would use english keys anyway, except some people who dont care enough or just allow it on offline tournaments? Then everyone would change their hotkeys anyway, except some whiners who realize that they invested time in learning the weird hotkeys which new players didnt need to. OH WAIT, there are like no new players, therefor ppl who change their keyset learned the same bullshit, but dont cry about it. if all make their keys custom, all can have the "perfect" layout and its all fair again. if you say all have to use english its not fair because ppl who dont use eng keyset have to relearn the english keys. bwplayers remind me a lot of pensioners, they just cant accept changes. at first everything is bad and should be banned. just dont ever dare to touch their beloved game. | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
Q W E A S D Z X C So buying plague for a Defiler is Q (top left on Defiler Mound) but casting it is X (bottom center on a Defiler). This is pretty amazing as it helps me memorize hotkeys much easier and my hand never has to leave the left side of the keyboard. I'm binding my Hatcheries to my G2-6 keys on my G15 keyboard and units to 1-6. APM efficiency++++++ Thanks for this, OP. | ||
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malathion
United States361 Posts
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xxbluejay21
United States94 Posts
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251
United States1401 Posts
2 5 1 | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
To what degree will StarCraft II allow for remapping - limited remapping a la Warcraft III, or complete remapping of key bindings? We are planning to support key-mapping for StarCraft II. The extent of the ability for remapping keys is still to be determined. Even in current experimentations, we have found that there are often many issues with conflicting key bindings as there are very few open unmapped keys to be swapped in and out. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
First : Starcraft is an old game (like 10 years ? Or 11 ?) so blizzard didn't think about remapping hotkeys. They did it for Warcraft 3 though. Second : I believe the game is too old now for blizzard to consider making it now. I'm 100% certain they'd not mind if it was created. Third : Is there a game beside Starcraft where we can't change our key settings ? Pretty rare i'd guess. Fourth : As a lot of tl members mentionned, i fail to understand why it shouldn't be allowed in online / offline competitions. Simply because of the differents languages versions. Why do you think i've downloaded the starcraft game in english ? Cauz the french's customization tilts me to no end. Did the french's lans banned me because of this ? No. Hell half of the players got theirs in english aswell. Why not indian or russian (assuming they would be easier, dunno if they are or not) ? Simply cauz it was the most known setting and it'd have been hard to find the others language back in theses days. But if they did know about that they'd have changed it for sure. Fifth : Pretty sure aswell that iccup would allow this. Sure it's a hack but a very very reasonable one. Afterall every rts games are using it. It isn't in starcraft simply because it's a very old game that blizzard wouldn't give it a try. I'd not mind at all if iccup players are using it, even less if iccup put a link to this remapping key's site. It's truly right to have their key customized in order to play more competitively. Mur)Ernu : Am i asking you to play with the exact same hardware as mine ? No. So stop crying. | ||
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iSCOUT4u
United States327 Posts
how can u call fixing hotkeys hacking...when its going to be a part of SC2 lol...the only reason its not a part of BW is cuz it was made in fucking 1998. | ||
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DamageControL
United States4222 Posts
D a m a g e C o n t r o l | ||
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sprawlers
Norway439 Posts
how can u call selection-hack hacking...when its going to be a part of SC2 lol...the only reason its not a part of BW is cuz it was made in fucking 1998. + Show Spoiler + Your argument is pretty shitty | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On April 07 2009 19:50 Supah wrote: ne1 that thinks multiple selection hack is cheating...is just fucking retarded. Blizz has some dumb selection limitations and just let u select 12 at a time and in NEWER games THEY LET YOU select as many u want...almost ALL NEW GAMES. comparing selection hack to maphacking is just wow....juuuuuust wow. how can u call selection-hack hacking...when its going to be a part of SC2 lol...the only reason its not a part of BW is cuz it was made in fucking 1998. + Show Spoiler + Your argument is pretty shitty Problem with that argument is someone using different hotkeys has to press the same amount of keys, they are just placed differently, while someone using a multi selection hack is way less limited in lots of areas of the game. | ||
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axel
France385 Posts
I use for years and i caan' accept people say its cheating. First of all , what a bout people having a lot of money and can use a wonderfulvery expensive keyboard and mouse whereas some others plays with crap huge keyboard and slow mouseball? Not to mentions : some very good keyboard can make "macros" wich allows player to execute several hiotkeys with 1 buttons , like for a protoss user in tvp end game :presses 1 key that will execute : f3 ( army location - combatzone)1a2a3a 4z 6 z 7z 8 g 9g 0 nexus...thats not a 3rd party program and still it can give an huge advantage for someplayers , especiallfor thos who have bad multitasking or are too lazy to improve at it. What about the differents languages versions in starcraft? Some versions are maybe easier to play with some races. also for thoses only claming that the onlly fact thats its a 3rd party program makes keycraft cheating i answer : people using chaos launcher and can seee many info with the replay thing can improve a litle litle bit than others , and because its a 3rd party program , it is cheating. because it gave you more info about the game than you are suposed to be allowed to know without chaos. Also my personnal case : i learnt on english versionin cybercafe years ago then when i had my own computer i had only french version available so it came that i had english version automatism plus new automatism with french version. The whole thing bugged me a lot and my multitask was really crap. So i had the opportunity to creat my own mix of french/english version i did it. also koreans use a third party program that is called tv and has 24/24 starcraft videos of pros and advices in their own language. Is this cheating? no | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3332 Posts
On April 07 2009 20:43 axel wrote:also koreans use a third party program that is called tv and has 24/24 starcraft videos of pros and advices in their own language. Is this cheating? no You have got to be kidding. How can you even think that anyone would think that Koreans having OGN/MBC and that its giving them an unfair advantage. This program is cheating and its not allowed on ICCup. Think what you want but you totally make your argument stupid when you add in the last part and try to compare remapping hotkeys with koreans having starcraft channels lol | ||
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MuR)Ernu
Finland768 Posts
On April 07 2009 12:30 RaiZ wrote: Omg. I'm really angry. At some of you. Especially Mur)Ernu. First : Starcraft is an old game (like 10 years ? Or 11 ?) so blizzard didn't think about remapping hotkeys. They did it for Warcraft 3 though. Second : I believe the game is too old now for blizzard to consider making it now. I'm 100% certain they'd not mind if it was created. Third : Is there a game beside Starcraft where we can't change our key settings ? Pretty rare i'd guess. Fourth : As a lot of tl members mentionned, i fail to understand why it shouldn't be allowed in online / offline competitions. Simply because of the differents languages versions. Why do you think i've downloaded the starcraft game in english ? Cauz the french's customization tilts me to no end. Did the french's lans banned me because of this ? No. Hell half of the players got theirs in english aswell. Why not indian or russian (assuming they would be easier, dunno if they are or not) ? Simply cauz it was the most known setting and it'd have been hard to find the others language back in theses days. But if they did know about that they'd have changed it for sure. Fifth : Pretty sure aswell that iccup would allow this. Sure it's a hack but a very very reasonable one. Afterall every rts games are using it. It isn't in starcraft simply because it's a very old game that blizzard wouldn't give it a try. I'd not mind at all if iccup players are using it, even less if iccup put a link to this remapping key's site. It's truly right to have their key customized in order to play more competitively. Mur)Ernu : Am i asking you to play with the exact same hardware as mine ? No. So stop crying. Having different hardware isn't bad. But having like a keyboard which is VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY different (those don't exist really). Someone here made his hotkeys be like 1-6 and "g1-6" (i assume the g keys are nearer than 7-0). Is that cheating? Yes. But is using that keyboard without all that fancy shit, no. Of course having different hardware isn't cheating. Being a better player would be cheating in that sense. Overall, i don't really care, but i'd prefer everyone to play with the english version. | ||
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