EPT[G] Remapping Hotkeys (without Keycraft) - Page 8
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
Dictionary.com on cheating To violate rules deliberately, as in a game iCCup 2.1. It is forbidden to use any software that is likely to give you advantage over other players (Map Hack, Drop Hack, etc.) iCCup has banned it, and if you're playing there using the program, you are cheating. I personally don't have any problem with it and would gladly accept the introduction of remappable hotkeys for all, but anyone who is playing there is very clearly breaking the rules. The gray area appears when people use the program solely to remap their keys to put themselves on even footing due to foreign hotkeys or a Dvorak keyboard. However, because the program is clearly categorized under "likely to give you advantage," using the program is breaking the rules. To use the program to normalize your hotkeys to the standard is purely acceptable on principle, and not at all dishonest, but it is still cheating unless iCCup decides to change the rules. No one's going to look down on you for changing your hotkeys to that of the normal SC keys. Just bear in mind that you are technically cheating. | ||
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PianoMan
Pakistan54 Posts
On April 07 2009 14:25 DamageControL wrote: blah blah blah posting because its fun to make fun of pianoman D a m a g e C o n t r o l While it's doubtless fun to post merely to inflate your post count, I'd suggest not posting in a thread unless you have at least a modicum of content to add. While I disagree with those arguing that this is cheating (and yes I've read their posts, I just choose not to get involved in arguing with them), they are at least contributing content to the topic. You are merely trying to mock me for some unknown reason. I don't even know who you are, and you don't know who I am either. </superiorwolf> On April 07 2009 20:53 Yaqoob wrote: This program is cheating and its not allowed on ICCup. On March 31 2009 07:15 Piste wrote: I was talking to the creator of this tool -_- It's not a tool really, as there are a couple of programs involved in it, and when you run StarCraft you are just running StarCraft--you don't run any other programs, you don't run anything to dynamically modify StarCraft each time. In fact, it's rather annoying switching between standard and modified hotkeys after you've done this, as you need to continually rename patch_rt.mpqs to do so between runs. On April 07 2009 21:52 Tianx wrote: iCCup has banned it, and if you're playing there using the program, you are cheating. I personally don't have any problem with it and would gladly accept the introduction of remappable hotkeys for all, but anyone who is playing there is very clearly breaking the rules. First of all, those are all different categories as they are hacks which actively read and modify StarCraft memory while running. This merely modifies some strings which are read by the configuration. (Note that I do not contend your charge that ICCup's rule there bans it--it most likely does, although this will not actually stop me from playing ICCup with modified hotkeys, regardless. Similarly, I use the latency changer hack which only affects me when I play public games on Battle.net. These people do not have Chaos, nor are they likely to get it, but for someone like me used to playing with low latency, it is nearly unplayable to continually switch between the two.) More importantly (and why I actually am responding to you) I see no reason why this is in fact not accessible for all? The method is clearly publicized here--there is no reason why it could not be translated into Korean if necessary (although not by me, as I'm afraid I do not speak Korean) and used by ICCup. You can hardly say it's not accessible to the user because it does not come with BW--neither does ICCup. ICCup already violates Blizzard's TOU by existing, and their server means people who have pirated the game and do not have valid CD keys can play anyway, so I hardly think they would be concerned about Blizzard going after them over this. Note that I am not suggesting ICCup do this, but there is nothing about this which is not accessible for all. Reading over my post above, I'm not super content with how it came out, but I suppose my point is discernible regardless. Hopefully I didn't sound too much like scumbags such as Dino. P i a n o M a n | ||
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
On April 07 2009 22:36 PianoMan wrote: Note that I do not contend your charge that ICCup's rule there bans it--it most likely does, although this will not actually stop me from playing ICCup with modified hotkeys, regardless. If iCCup has banned it and you play on iCCup with it, you are cheating. It's as simple as that. Is it wrong on principle to remap your hotkeys? Maybe, maybe not - that's not the issue. The issue is that you are willfully breaking the rules, which is the very definition of cheating. This isn't a judgment of your character and you may feel like you are doing the right thing anyways, in which case go for it, but know that you are 100% cheating when you do it. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7802 Posts
On April 07 2009 14:25 DamageControL wrote: blah blah blah posting because its fun to make fun of pianoman D a m a g e C o n t r o l wow... Man you are soo funny. ... | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3318 Posts
On April 07 2009 22:47 Tianx wrote: If iCCup has banned it and you play on iCCup with it, you are cheating. It's as simple as that. Yah, I don't get whats wrong with PianoMan. I understand he doesn't think its cheating but openly admits to breaking ICCup rules and using programs that ICCup doesn't allow and that ICCup considers cheating/illegal. "I know its illegal and banned on ICCup but since they have no way of finding out then I'm going to use this program to alter my hotkeys and go play on ICCup." | ||
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PianoMan
Pakistan54 Posts
Yes? Then you broke Battle.net's rules too. I don't personally find much of a difference between the two cases (I am aware that modified hotkeys only affect a single person, yes). Both enhance play, both can be used by both parties (although hotkeys do not force you to have both parties use it, which is really the only difference), both break rules which were not truly designed to combat the programs/methods in question. P i a n o M a n | ||
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
To Rainman: The only way to use this tool legitimately is to get the iCCup rules changed. You'd be spending your time better petitioning the iCCup admins and ask them to make an exception for this program than arguing here. Even though it would have a (very) low chance of success, you would at least be able to build an argument as currently your case begins and ends with the fact that using your program is the very definition of cheating. | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3318 Posts
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
Your program most certainly can, and what's worse, it can do so with only one of the players knowing. That not only breaks the rules but is iffy on principle. Your program is an illegitimate method of gaining an advantage over another player. That is cheating. | ||
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Yaqoob
Canada3318 Posts
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sprawlers
Norway439 Posts
On April 07 2009 20:35 floor exercise wrote: Problem with that argument is someone using different hotkeys has to press the same amount of keys, they are just placed differently, while someone using a multi selection hack is way less limited in lots of areas of the game. That is true, a multicomand hack gives you a way greater edge than a more effective hotkey setup. But both is still using a third party program to give yourself an advantage. Allowing one type of cheating because there exists another type of cheating that is more effective makes no sense to me. | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
On April 07 2009 23:01 Tianx wrote: ChaosLauncher does not provide an advantage to one player and therefore does not break the rules of iCCup, where the games are taking place. Your program most certainly can, and what's worse, it can do so with only one of the players knowing. That not only breaks the rules but is iffy on principle. Your program is an illegitimate method of gaining an advantage over another player. That is cheating. The ICCUP rules say no programs can be run, which is fine and dandy but nothing is running when you play the game. This is a simplified text editor. Hotkeys are a preference. If you're used to playing with the default layout than editing this text file will make you play worse. Trying to compare this to maphacks and drophacks referenced in the ICCUP rules is silly. You can emulate this with hardware as well by playing on a G15 keyboard or a Nostromo Speedpad. They provide the exact same "advantage" and there's even less ways to detect them. | ||
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
The key difference between iCCup's existence breaking Blizzard's rules and your program breaking iCCup's rules is that iCCup chooses to enforce their rules and would certainly crack down on your program if they were able. The fact that your program is undetectable does not make it legitimate. You are willfully going against the intentions of the admins and are not only cheating but are wrong on principle. | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
On April 07 2009 23:13 Tianx wrote: You are correct in saying that we are all breaking the rules set by Battle.net and Blizzard when we choose to play on iCCup. That means we would be subject to their punishments for violating the rules if they so chose to enforce them. However, they do not, as iCCup is a good thing from their perspective. iCCup is illegal as you say, but it continues to exist because it is beneficial from Blizzard's perspective. But while you are right in saying that iCCup is illegitimate, it does not justify the use of your programs. The key difference between iCCup's existence breaking Blizzard's rules and your program breaking iCCup's rules is that iCCup chooses to enforce their rules and would certainly crack down on your program if they were able. The fact that your program is undetectable does not make it legitimate. You are willfully going against the intentions of the admins and are not only cheating but are wrong on principle. Do you consider G15 keyboards or Nostromo Speedpads unfair? They do the exact same thing as what's done with this text editing method (altering the player's command input) but the process is done on the hardware level instead of software level. You can't detect those either. Oh, I forgot about my mouse. I use a Logitech G5 which allows you to bind the mouse wheel tilt to keyboard keys. Is this unfair? | ||
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
iCCup Rules 2.1. It is forbidden to use any software that is likely to give you advantage over other players (Map Hack, Drop Hack, etc.)[ Software != Hardware | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
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SpiritAshura
United States1271 Posts
On April 07 2009 21:26 ghermination wrote: Why does remapping keys really matter? Yes, it gives someone an advantage, but its been considered negligible in a vast majority of later RTS which favored customizability over rigid rules. You guys can complain all you want, but its the truth. While blizzard may not have thought of key re-mapping 11 years ago, that does not mean they haven't thought of it now. I'm more on this side of the argument, I don't really give a shit because it doesn't change all that much, it's just preference on what you feel comfortable with, core play is hardly changed obviously changing your hotkeys isn't going to help THAT much. Just look at WC3 for examples of that, some people use default while others use custom at pro level, doesn't change who wins 99999999/100000000 times. If you want to complain this is cheating go for it since it wasn't in SC at the time, but it's gonna be in SC2 so hopefully you people don't continue complaining. | ||
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
On April 07 2009 23:23 w e l p wrote: No kidding. Can you tell me what software I'm using that qualifies? I'm not running anything while I play Starcraft. I could delete the text editor the OP references and nothing would change. Cheating is an incredibly simple concept. If you break the rules, you are cheating - if you haven't, you are not. Of course, that is not to say you can't play dirty within the rules or stay fair while breaking them. If it's not against the rules it is by definition not cheating. While your hardware effectively achieves the same thing, and may be against the general gaming spirit, you have not broken the rules and are thus in the clear by the rules, although perhaps not by your peers. | ||
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w e l p
United States45 Posts
There are no third party programs running on my computer or even installed while I play Starcraft. You could do what is done with the text editor mentioned in the OP using nothing on your hard drive but Windows, Starcraft+BW and the ChaosLauncher using the pre-installed Wordpad. Although it would be a much more arduous process. edit: You could also do this by editing your registry to change your keyboard layout. With that method not a single piece of non Starcraft/ICCUP related software would ever exist on your computer. | ||
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