On March 28 2009 00:44 floor exercise wrote: ^ I wish people would stop posting like that. You have literally nothing of value to say to any of his points and yet insist on quoting each section and adding a one liner. You're making your shitty contrarian argument take up 10 times the amount of space it needs to for no reason. If all you have to contribute is LOL NO <insert equally bad counter analogy> you should at least to do it as succinctly as possible instead of such a ridiculous format that only serves to isolate how bad every point you made actually is.
agreed. But back on the topic, I think it's only illegal because not everyone has access to it. And no, putting it on team liquid doesn't mean everyone has access to it.... yet but if blizzard made a patch to allow this everything would be fine... Just the fact that some people have it and some people don't makes it unfair, clear and simple.
Just to make a quick example, i noticed a lot of people saying that people with small hands deserve to have a chance to re-map their keys so they are on an equal playing field with people with bigger hands. But what about the other people with small hands that don't know about this program? It's clear to see an advantage between the two small handed people.
(all of this might have been said already and Im sorry if it was)
On March 28 2009 02:10 Typho0n wrote: Just to make a quick example, i noticed a lot of people saying that people with small hands deserve to have a chance to re-map their keys so they are on an equal playing field with people with bigger hands. But what about the other people with small hands that don't know about this program? It's clear to see an advantage between the two small handed people.
What about people with no hands? They should be able to compete too. My body doesn't really build up muscles, which means I could not compete as a body builder even if I wanted to. If something limits you from competing on the highest levels then thats just the way it is, bad luck. I never heard someone complaining he could not get to C because his hands are too small.
That being said, if someone remaps their hotkey, and their opponent does not know about it, then I consider it cheating. Customisable hotkeys are not part of the game, and people lived with it. Players learned to play with those mechanics and for some it is their life.
Let's take a look at Quake 3. Customisation is part of the game and you can get a lot of advantages with tweaks in your configuration. You can alter the game so it fits you individually best, which is a good thing. On the other hand it is just another barrier, a new player has to learn.
I would not mind customisable hotkeys, probably even welcome them, but they would have to be introduced everywhere (read: Patch 1.17). But that also comes with consequences on the proscene.
Guys, I use dvorak keyboardlayout, which totally fucks up my hotkeys in BW and it is very annoying to have to switch keyboard layouts every time I want to play BW.Thanks to this guide, I will be able to remap my hotkeys to the normal positions.
please store this post in safe re-findable place as i had this problem some days ago and really got mad to find a solution ... solution which i couldn't find!
On March 27 2009 23:51 Scooge wrote: Stop trying to rationalize why you cheat. If you want to do it, do it, but don't be a pussy about it. The OP at least admitted he didn't care if this was cheating.
i couldnt give more of a fuck if you consider it cheating or not. imo its not cheating, because i dont get an advantage if i change my medic hotkey, its the same fucking thing as using the english hotkeys. i fucking hate your hypocrisy because you accept the usage of bwchart (YES THIS GIVES YOU AN ADVANTAGE OR WHY ELSE ARE YOU USING IT?) but deny my right to have the same hotkey for my medics and marines.
On March 28 2009 00:24 Diomedes wrote: So? If I used mineralhack vs Bisu I would own him hard. But if I used just maphack I wouldn't suddenly win more vs him. I fail to get the point. You made two analogies and they both failed.
the only thing changed is, that i wont miss my medics in a fight that often.
And that isn't an advantage?
you fail to get the point, because your way to stupid. Did you pass primary school? It's an analogy to show the difference between an unfair advantage and a slight not significant advantage. So yes, switching hotkeys CAN be an advantage, but its not unfair you wont even be better by 1/100. your problem is that you compare such little advantages to pros where win and loss depends on such small advantages BUT WE ARE NOT PROS! We don't win because of such minor shit!
Everytime you play an offline tournament you are forced to play with the English version. Asking for a german version is not allowed. You have to play with the English version. Asking to be allowed to use half the hotkeys from the English version and half those of the german one also isn't allowed. Iccup doesn't ban non-English versions. You really want them to go that far to fix Blizzard's mistake?
how can I take you serious if you show me that you dont have a clue what the fuck you are talking about. http://www.wcg.com/6th/2008/tournament/Rules_Regulations.zip download the fucking rules and show me where they state that you have to use English hotkeys! WOW, you look at customized keyboard layouts as something bad that should be fixed? Damn you are really mind crippled.
This is incorrect. And if the community made the rules theres a clear consensus that remapping shortcuts is cheating.
yeah, extremely clear, thats why im the only one in this thread who thinks custom hotkeys should be standard. We as a community could promote programms like keycraft, so everyone part of this community can profit from it. But if we keep it down because of morrons like you, surly very few will find it and use it and it surly will remain unaccepted.
Yes, stuff is banned in cycling. Either on the road or on the track, there are clear requirements for the bikes. Just because no equipment is banned in icehockey that doesn't mean nothing is banned in whatever sports and thus nothing ought to be banned in SC, when in fact it is and it clearly should be. And yeah, there are places where brightly coloured shoes are banned in football.
OMG, you are really fucking stupid. Did I every say no equipment is banned in Ice-Hockey? Its like im talking to a wall. You are to stupid to differentiate between things. Do you see in colors or only black and white? Must be really cool to live in a monochrome world. GUESS WHAT, I AM PRO BANNING MAPHACK MINERALHACK QUEUEHACK SELECTIONHACK MULTICOMMANDHACK STATSHACK etc but I'm AGAINST banning minor advantageous third party programms such as bwchart, chaoscoach or keycraft. You know I can make a difference between things because I measure them beyound digital levels. Open your fucking eyes and realize that there is more than 0 and 1!
That's because it's different for everyone. You have to get the muscle memory to use the shortcuts. If you learn it both ways equally, there is no difference. And clearly having to 1a2a3e4 because of medics is harder for everyone if one used the german version. So clearly it does make a difference to certain people. And I can only assume this since I didn't actually go and measure it. Idiot.
Thats the exact problem, you just spit bullshit make assumptions call me the idiot when in fact YOU are idiot. I played the game with both settings, I didn't get better when I had customized keys it was just not as frustrating. Because I have the expirience and made this fucking measurement I have more knowledge about it than you do. This makes you the idiot who is spitting bullshit and makes me the wise man who knows what the fuck hes talking about. As always you should first get your facts up then talk about it. I hate idiots like you who think they can talk about any issue but in fact have no clue!
Uuh, just a bit earlier you admitted that it did make a difference. Surely there is a difference. You can map probe key 'p' to 's'. That is a difference. That's why people map keys. If it made no difference, why bother?
LEARN TO READ FUCKING FIRST GRADER! I clearly said it makes no BIG B.I.G difference! Why I change hotkeys? I already said that too, so again LEARN TO FUCKING READ! Its to lower frustration, it's more intuitive. If I want a advantage I'd make myself a fucking Maphack!
It's hard to ban certain language versions on iccup. And you can't pick your personal preference. You are just stuck with whatever each language version has. Using third party program or adjusting the game data to your personal preferecen to gain an advantage is clearly not fair and different from using different language versions.
ITS NOT TO GAIN ADVANTAGE! Fucking get that into your small brain, IT IS NOT TO GAIN ADVANTAGE! NOT! OK? Did it get through your frame? Can you finally accept that there is not the slightest intention to gain an advantage by altering your hotkeys?
we as community shouldnt cry about things like keycraft we should cry because of maphacks and queue hacks and multi select and multi command and drop warnings and shit like this.
What about replacing the DT cloacked bitmap sprites with the uncloacked ones?
why you say chaos launcher (actually its plugins) is TECHNICALLY not allowed? its against the rules = its cheating = dont fucking treat it different.
What? You think that remapping keys isn't cheating but you think chaos launcher plugins are? And you accuse me of hypocricy? WTF dude...
WOOOW, this is like the peak of your stupidness. Making DTs visible is they should not be visible is a feature of a maphack and CLEARLY falls into a different category than KeyCraft. Statements like this show me that you really cant differentiate between things, how old are you? DONT EVERY LAY BULLSHIT INTO MY MOUTH! I NEVER SAID KeyCraft = no hack and Chaos = Hack, NEVER! I said if you use your zero tolerance on KeyCraft be fucking consequent and use it on Chaos-Stuff too. It was simply the word technically which you abused!
your really ignorant. as if the skill in bw relies in the hotkey setup.
Apparently it does because people remap their hotkeys. I thought I already showed how poor this argument was and you just use it again vs some other person.
OK, then play a game vs me. We meet in b.net and if you win I switch to custom keys and own your ass badly. If I win you switch to custom keys and own my ass badly? Ok? PM me your account and we can measure it instead of shittalking like you keep doing all the time.
Germans are forced to play the german version in WCG?
they are not, why ask? I thought your the one who knows the rules exceptionally well (see rules above BUAHAHAHAHA)
in my country i can only buy either french or german version of starcraft.
Don't be a liar just to support your cheating. And even if this were true, there are other ways to get the English version besides buying it which are all perfectly legal. And even if you had to use remapping method to remap it exactly to the English version, you argue that setting it up any way you prefer the most is what should not be considered as cheating.
you call me a liar? HEY ASSHOLE, COME HERE AND SHOW ME WHERE I CAN BUY ENGLISH VERSION, OK? If I dont buy the english version I alter StarCraft in any way I violate the EULA, thats btw the shit you didnt read an just clicked accept.
oh and plz all the whiners, dont play maps like bluestorm, because they are all made with 3rd party programs and therefor violate the EULA.
Blue Storm is in the iccup mappack.
YAY, you are so stupid its almost funny again. What a deadly argument, you completely changed my mind. Customized Stuff is really bad.
Please get some knowledge, grow up, learn how to handle things beyond 0 and 1 and dont fucking take sentences out of their context. If you replay to my post again use a full text, you can expect that I'm capable of relate your statements accordingly, unlike you.
yes there is a reason why i insult, because i cant stand stupid ppl talk about shit they obviously dont know. oh, and i can and did prove my point otherwise, dont make it look like i didnt give enough rational reasons.
1. Different language BW have different hotkeys, keycraft would give everyone the equal chance.
2. Different screens, keyboards and mouses will give different players advantages over another player. Unless everyone uses the same version of bw and the same equipment there is no way to avoid this, thus this program will only even it out.
3. I heard that SC2 will have this feature, and many other games has this feature. It's a good feature.
I agree that it will give you a slight advantage over those who doesn't use it, but the reason why i still think it should be accepted is the above points.
I really hope they will release a version where they allow this officially so everyone can start using it.
I was shown this by a good player, and when I asked him, he and alot of other players said that it was not concidered cheating, and using the logic I did in the above points I also figured that this is not a bad thing. However since its not widely spread Im abit reluctant to changing alot of hotkeys and as it is now i use "b v" for building bunker instead of "b u" and also irradiate on "t".
In many sports they can customise their "tool", but ofcourse withing limited boundaries. Same goes for most E-sport games. Even starcraft 2. They should really try to officialize this into bw aswell.
Edit: also Scooge, if you cannot base an argument on what I wrote then dont post at all in response to my arguement please. I don't want to flame you but if you don't know the difference between this and mutliple building selection even after reading the replies of many people here then you need to open your mind.
How come no one mentions keyboards, like the Logitech G15, as cheating? You can rebind that entire keyboard to match your needs (Be it typing, programming, gaming). That's completely outside the bounds of StarCraft as well.
Well, let's assume you do remapp your hotkeys. And let's also assume you remapp them because you find some of them are hard to reach or you just want to prevent incidents where units get leaved behind/tech not starting because you pressed the wrong key. In this situation, you changed them to make it easier for yourself. In this situation, if your opponent hasn't changed his to ease his play, I do consider you have an unfair advantage.
And how does a live apm pluging or even bwchart can even compare to that. Apm live lets you see your apm, but does that really increase you macro, does is really make you micro better. As far as I'm concerned it's just something else that sets you attention off the actual game.
And please, bwchart is used as a post-game analysis for replays, meaning it doesn't affect the actual game at all. In the end, the community decision is based on majority's oppinion. And everytime this came up, there were always more people that dispoved it than supporters.
Well, let's assume you do remapp your hotkeys. And let's also assume you remapp them because you find some of them are hard to reach or you just want to prevent incidents where units get leaved behind/tech not starting because you pressed the wrong key. In this situation, you changed them to make it easier for yourself. In this situation, if your opponent hasn't changed his to ease his play, I do consider you have an unfair advantage.
I agree. But when I'm buying a better screen, mouse or keyboard to be able to play starcraft better I also might have an advantage to a dude using a roll-mouse, 12'' screen and an old keyboard. Also I'm allowed to take away different keys from the keyboard to make it easier for myself not to miss a specific key. I think these things fall under the similar category don't you think?
On March 27 2009 20:33 Diomedes wrote: Also, cheaters are banned on TL.net. Pianoman basically made a guide to cheating.
No one has ever been banned from TL.net for using programs like Chaos Launcher or KeyCraft. TL.net's view of cheating is different from Blizzard's view.
extract it and copy the 2 dll files into C:\windows\system
Thanks! I edited your post into the original post.
On March 28 2009 03:42 IH4t3z3rg wrote: please store this post in safe re-findable place as i had this problem some days ago and really got mad to find a solution ... solution which i couldn't find!
It's backed up on my hard drive, and you could find it by searching for hotkeys, remapping, or keycraft. There's also a version not written by me available on GG.net which I couldn't find originally as it was moved from the original location, so I figured it was lost.
I've had my own personal hotkeys for a good 6+ years now and I'd be totally lost without them. Granted I play less than a dozen times online in a years time. And ya I'm a pretty bad player. Without my hotkeys I'm really really bad tho.
Anywho without a big debacle as to whether this is cheating or not, there's a couple of things that should be noted about custom stat_txt.tbl strings. 1. For foreign language stat_txt.tbls simply add them by using the options tab in WinMPQ and changing the locale ID. This sometimes isn't so obvious. 2. Not all strings follow the same pattern. There are rules for different types of strings such as unit training, upgrades, research etc. Details here for those interested: http://www.staredit.net/wiki/TBLPad_Hotkey_String_Format
I have always attempted to utilize the left hand home keys for all of the mods I've worked on and I'm glad to see more modders are starting to put effort in doing the same. It just makes sense. As for competition, if you're one of those 1% of Starcraft players that is an aspiring "touring" pro, then ya forget about it. For the rest of the mortals, this is a great way to improve your all around mechanics/speed. Blizzard should have incorporated this into a patch. Glad to see it coming in SC2. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
God damn everywhere I go on the forum these days people are whinning and bitching about stupid shit.
Every RTS game SHOULD COME WITH CUSTOMIZABLE HOTKEYS. UBS flash cards could easily carry this information and gamers would be able to play a more personalized game.
Other then it being impractical at competitive lans there is no good excuse to not allow gamers to change their keys.
That is like C/S telling gamers they can't switch from W to E for forward ..
The only reason I never customized my hotkeys is because I believe zergs hotkeys are super easy as is.
I hope Blizzard will just make rebinding hotkeys a built-in option for SC2. If I were to make an FPS analogy, it would be people using esdf or asdf instead of the default wasd - I for one, don't care and don't blame players for wanting to customize their controls.
1. For foreign language stat_txt.tbls simply add them by using the options tab in WinMPQ and changing the locale ID. This sometimes isn't so obvious. 2. Not all strings follow the same pattern. There are rules for different types of strings such as unit training, upgrades, research etc. Details here for those interested: http://www.staredit.net/wiki/TBLPad_Hotkey_String_Format
Thanks! It might be good if you post what changes you made so people don't have to read through the file or go to the effort of doing it themselves. I edited your foreign language stuff in.
Here is some info in addition to the guide (feel free to add them to the OP) :
- if you get a list of files unknownblabla instead of the real names, get patch_rt.mpq.txt. In WinMPQ, go to options, then File lists, then Add File list with that file.
- There are several rez\stat_txt.tbl in the list, they correspond to different languages. Here are the locale IDs : 0 Neutral (English) 1031 German 1033 English 1034 Spanish 1036 French 1040 Italian 1046 Portugese Extract the one that fits the locale you want to change.
- If you want to change a different locale than English, before adding stat_txt.tbl back into the mpq, go to options and input the right one in the "Locale ID for adding files" field.
On March 28 2009 17:24 Catyoul wrote: Here is some info in addition to the guide (feel free to add them to the OP) :
- if you get a list of files unknownblabla instead of the real names, get patch_rt.mpq.txt. In WinMPQ, go to options, then File lists, then Add File list with that file.
- There are several rez\stat_txt.tbl in the list, they correspond to different languages. Here are the locale IDs : 0 Neutral (English) 1031 German 1033 English 1034 Spanish 1036 French 1040 Italian 1046 Portugese Extract the one that fits the locale you want to change.
- If you want to change a different locale than English, before adding stat_txt.tbl back into the mpq, go to options and input the right one in the "Locale ID for adding files" field.
Wow, great stuff! What's the difference between 1033 and 0? Are they merely aliases, and any changes made to one will affect the other, or what?
That unknowable files fix should help out someone who PMed me, as well.
EPT
but if blizzard made a patch to allow this everything would be fine... Just the fact that some people have it and some people don't makes it unfair, clear and simple.
