For the real fun of seeing IdrA's attitude-in-need-of-adjustment, scroll down to near the end (or Ctrl+F "Manner Bear"), although I certainly encourage you to read my report of the game first! Comments (about the report, although you can comment on IdrA too if you want, I won't ban you from my blog) are most welcome!
Hi guys! It's me again, although most of you probably don't remember me, I decided to write a battlereport of CJ_Idra vs 3D.Strelok. Note that this contains spoilers of Broodsport/Liquibition of Strelok vs F91. If you somehow have not seen those and do not want to be spoiled (then my congratulations to you for somehow avoiding it while still reading TL...), then do not read this.
The Replay Anyway, the replay is hosted on GosuGamers.net and at repdepot. I won't tell you how to find it because I'm not supposed to link to IdrA replays. I'm sure you can find it yourself at gosugamers.net's starcraft replay section, it's not that hard.
The Map Twelve professional TvTs have been played on Chupung-Ryeong, but I can't say much interesting about the balance of the map as it's TvT! I'm not a good enough player to be able to say whether the 1 or the 7 position have an appreciable advantage against the other in TvT.
The Situation Strelok and Idra... two of the top foreigner Terrans. Interestingly enough, they both played and lost TvZ vs F91 recently. Strelok lost 2-5 in games, and Idra lost 2-5 in games! Strelok is known for having a strong TvT, while Idra's TvT is lesser-known. However, with the map being Chupung-Ryeong and Idra having professional level practice partners, that historical TvT imbalance would seem to be minimized. IdrA lacks the respect for Strelok that Strelok has for him, however, so it will be a game that IdrA definitely does not want to lose!
The Game Idra lands his teal Command Center at the 7 o'clock position, while Strelok speedily builds his red one at the 1. Note: Idra was actually yellow and Strelok was orange. This makes for bad screenshots! I've used ally colours so that's why they are those colors. Through use of slavic speed, Strelok rapidly siezes the advantage by building his SCV .00001 seconds faster!
Idra; Strelok. Green vs Red--a contest to determine the best Christmas colour!
IdrA begins my mining minerals with his SCVs, whereas Strelok begins mining minerals with his SCVs and doing a standard build scouting with one of his first four SCVs (what!?).
Strelok attempts some sort of cheese? Time shall tell!
Strelok makes a Barracks on 6 supply below/right of IdrA's natural. Idra, meanwhile, is at 8/10 supply with his 8th SCV about to finish.
Strelok's proxy cheese. One can imagine IdrA's reaction now if he had gone 14 CC and not scouted it
Progamer SCV sense of star saves the day!
IdrA continues standardly with Barracks/Refinery, while Strelok adds a Supply Depot at home.
"Fuck off!" "No you!" "Fine T_T"
Strelok is forced to cancel his proxy Barracks because IdrA's SCV was attacking his building SCV. Now comfortably behind, Strelok makes another Barracks in his main and takes his own gas.
Status Check! Strelok is down by a little less than 2 SCVs, economically. His Barracks is less than half-done while IdrA's is already complete. Similarly with the geysers.
Idra adds a second Depot before starting his Factory, while Strelok (when his lazy SCV finally finishes the epic project of the Barracks) throws his down prior to the second depot. Because of this, IdrA's factory is only slightly ahead of Strelok's.
Strelok makes a single Marine and then floats his Barracks, while IdrA instructs 3 men on the use of Gauss Rifles before lifting his.
You may have stopped my proxy, but I'm going to have a Barracks at you one way or another!
Both players go 2 fact, researching mines first, although Strelok's second factory ended up significantly behind due to his opening.
IdrA attacks Strelok's forces. Strelok has no Siege Tank, and loses a Marine immediately, before pulling back behind the mines.
IdrA mentally curses a mine for blowing up half his men
IdrA and Strelok continue by researching Ionic Thrusters, while Strelok adds a Starport, hidden at the top right corner of his base. Strelok also adds a third factory.
IdrA's expansion CC is blocked! Meanwhile, at Strelok's corner....
Strelok's CC was roughly 650 HP slower than IdrA's due to his more diverse tech choices. Strelok also elected to cancel that third factory he was making. Strelok thus has 2 factories and a starport against IdrA's (now) four factories and armory/academy which he just started.
An attack!
Meanwhile... The wraiths kill many SCVs (at time of that screenshot they had 9 kills between them, but they got many more (we're talking 25+)
Strelok, "the SCV assassin", is everywhere!
Hm
Attempting to prove his point, IdrA attacks!
Having given up his natural as unsalvageable, IdrA migrated that CC to the 9 expansion. Strelok also took the 3 at this time.
All was not well at IdrA's 9, however...
IdrA's main gets dropped, but he managed to shut down Strelok's 3 o'clock expansion, while taking his own near the bottom right.
IdrA quickly gets frustrated with trying to defend his last expansion, however, and leaves.
IdrA the "Manner Bear"
Strelok posted in support of IdrA after IdrA's loss in broodsport:
On February 22 2009 01:52 3D.Strelok wrote: Stop talking shit about Idra, it's not about his game, it's all about F91. I remember how i played CJ_Orion in PGL. He used EVERY small mistake or even sign of mistake. F91 is not ofc Orion, but also very solid zerg!
So how exactly did IdrA leave? Did he type "gg", or even "g"? Well...
Thanks To: Teamliquid.net, for being the best StarCraft website out there! Strelok, for being a good player and playing awesome StarCraft! Imageshack, for hosting the images! GosuGamers.net, for being where I originally got the replay! Idra, for being consistently bm and cocky, without which the replay would just have been a good TvT, but not motivating enough for me to write this!
Note to Moderators/Admins: Hopefully you respect me and my contribution enough to keep this open, unlike the IdrA bm vs Strelok topic which was previously closed before (and it was admittedly short on content apart from bashing Idra so I don't disagree with that decision, but I've attempted to mitigate that problem by actually writing a battlereport about the game itself).
On March 21 2009 10:25 AoN.DimSum wrote: watched it like 5 min ago. It was a very gg besides the bm.
Yep, although I definitely wouldn't have spent so long writing this up but for the BM I'm continually disappointed that it was IdrA who ended up 'representing' foreigners in Korea rather than NonY
i dont even know where to begin sometimes, frustration is every gamers' flaw. honest to say, who hasnt felt frustrated or angry when they lost a game? but anywho i enjoyed the read, its a good read. sad to see the ending as so. better than the closed thread, though.
I was actually interested in what happened in that game, due my computer being fucked, I couldnt watch the replay.
Thanks for the write-up, I feel bad for Strelok who seems like a really nice guy, to be trashed like that after obviously playing a really good game..and he even stood up for Idra when he was getting flamed for being crushed by f91.
On March 21 2009 10:39 ilistis wrote: Wow. Where is all that practice going? 8+ hours a day with progamers and yet he still loses to foreigners. tsk tsk.
This is just my own theory but maybe the koreans doesn't really care about IdrA and doesn't let him practice enough against koreans and IdrA is too proud to admit that he's being treated badly.
Maybe this is true, maybe not, I really want to find a reason other than IdrA is bad. I guess it's many conditions like language, culture and stuff that adds up too. Maybe Rekrul takes him out partying too much?
On March 21 2009 10:39 ilistis wrote: Wow. Where is all that practice going? 8+ hours a day with progamers and yet he still loses to foreigners. tsk tsk.
This is just my own theory but maybe the koreans doesn't really care about IdrA and doesn't let him practice enough against koreans and IdrA is too proud to admit that he's being treated badly.
Maybe this is true, maybe not, I really want to find a reason other than IdrA is bad. I guess it's many conditions like language, culture and stuff that adds up too. Maybe Rekrul takes him out partying too much?
Idra is an asshole, but he doesn't suck at SC, he would own your ass any day.
idra is a dick, from what i've seen. I seriously don't understand why he can't type gg like the rest of us. Maybe if he had some composure, maybe i would support him as the only foreigner even close to the korean scene (and White_Ra i hear is rising up, so maybe not for long). right now though, i think he makes us all look bad :S
I think the key point to remember from this game is that strelok did indeed win. Such a skilless newb capable of taking games of those of this skill. I was blown away at how many kills those initial wraiths got
I don't think not gg'ing is BM at all, but what he said to Strelok was definitely a dick thing to do. It was completely uncalled for and I'm kind of glad Strelok won because of that. I watched the replay today, I was suprised you didn't include the other quote he said. "you going to drop arent you" "no" and he wasn't even lying!
On March 21 2009 11:05 talismania wrote: who uses the name kafir? very disrespectful...
"Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate," also the term "Kuffar" the plural of the word "Kafir" is used to refer to peasants."
On March 21 2009 10:45 Liquid`NonY wrote: take out links to the replay and your post might not get closed. idra requested that his reps not be spread
There are two players in the game not just Idra, maybe Sterlock would like to share it on his end. The replay is not all his and I don't see why OP should have to do this ESPECIALLY seeing how much of a dick Idra was.
Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
On March 21 2009 11:05 talismania wrote: who uses the name kafir? very disrespectful...
"Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate," also the term "Kuffar" the plural of the word "Kafir" is used to refer to peasants."
Hmmmmmm
Kaffir, kaffer or kafir, which once was a blanket term for black southern Africans (see Kaffir (historical usage in southern Africa)), is now utilized exclusively as an ethnic or racial slur. The original meaning of the word was 'heathen', unbeliever or infidel, from the Arabic Kafir.[1] Portuguese explorers used the term generally to describe tribes they encountered in southern Africa, probably having misunderstood its etymology from Muslim traders along the coast. European colonists subsequently continued its use.[2] Although used often inoffensively between the 16th and 19th centuries, as racial tensions increased in 20th century South Africa, its use became more racially slanderous than just a general word to describe a race of people.
The term was mostly used in South Africa, Northern Rhodesia and Southern Rhodesia.
"We should take care not to use derogatory words that were used to demean black persons in this country. Words such as ‘Kaffir’, ‘coolie’, ‘Boesman’, ‘hotnot’ and many others have negative connotations and remain offensive as they were used to degrade, undermine and strip South Africans of their humanity and dignity."
Hmm didn't know about the original arabic word, was thinking along the lines of what fusionsdf just posted. Who knows which idra was going for, I suppose.
On March 21 2009 10:45 Liquid`NonY wrote: take out links to the replay and your post might not get closed. idra requested that his reps not be spread
There are two players in the game not just Idra, maybe Sterlock would like to share it on his end. The replay is not all his and I don't see why OP should have to do this ESPECIALLY seeing how much of a dick Idra was.
Its all over gg.net and everywhere now anyway, so I dont really see the problem either.
Does Idra know there is great consequences for everything he does? I recall atleast 50 pages of flame from Idra vs. F91. I think he hasn't matured yet. It is said that teenagers know the consequences to what they do but in their undecided ways decide to do irrational and unmoral things.
On March 21 2009 11:55 Sentenal wrote: Dude, Idra wouldn't be nearly as amusing if he wasn't BM. If Idra was just another boring mannered Terran, I wouldn't be a fan.
haha pathetic.. Strelok is WAY behind from his early cheese attempt, yet still manages to win in a mirror where huge advantages like that should of decided the game..
And the bm is just pathetic, its like this kid is the early version of Trippy or Owchs.
On March 21 2009 11:05 talismania wrote: who uses the name kafir? very disrespectful...
"Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate," also the term "Kuffar" the plural of the word "Kafir" is used to refer to peasants."
Hmmmmmm
Kafir means to reject and is usually used to refer to non-muslims or disbelievers in Islaam (i.e they rejected the truth --> rejectors). Kuffar is just the plural of 'Kafir'
Seriously, I want this dumb whining kid named Idra to continue what he's doing, i.e. bm more and lose more often so sc drama is more fun. He's not going to get anything big in Korea anyway, so..... gooooooo Idra, bm more, keep us entertained, cheers.
Good game. I don't what most people were expecting though. strelok has great TvT whereas idras TvP is sick. though it was looking pretty close in the middle when idra pushed strelok back into his base. i thought it was dumb that strelok used ALL his mines in the middle but i guess it turned out to be a turning point. I don't think those mines were ever removed. it made it that much more difficult for idra to get around. it was a rough game for idra though. scouted the proxy-was looking great mid-game- but then strelok's harassment is what made the difference. and yeah, i'm not gonna comment about the bm. i've been a really peaceful and non-confrontational lately. it's been working good for me.
idra has such a horrible attitude for someones whos trying to become a "professional". seriously do his teammates and coaches know he acts like this? I cant imagine they would tolerate it. I dont even tolerate players on my amateur cs team acting like that. its fucking pathetic
I was thinking more like Ziigmund, but Phil Helmuth is a pretty good match too lol, probably even better.
i must have to agree with the phil helmuth reference here, except that to me phil helmuth IS funny. I think Idra was just being an asshole. It's amazing how people act so brave over the internet.
But @ the game: it was amazing, im kinda disapointed to see Idra lose soooooooooo many scvs from 2 wraths, i think a turret would've owned strelok harrass. Also it was painful to watch strelok's nat seiged by 1 single tank and yet not being able to take it back over.
GG Streklok - you are a very good terran player and CLEARLY one of the best outside of Korea. If it was me, you (and about 10 other foreigners) should be replacing IdrA in eSTRO, EASILY. You stood your ground very well, ignoring the bad mannered little Mclovin nerd from Superbad. GJ sir~
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
On March 21 2009 10:45 Liquid`NonY wrote: take out links to the replay and your post might not get closed. idra requested that his reps not be spread
funny, he posted his replay against Strelok played aprox. 5 days ago, immediatly after some1 linked his loss on Chupung. I dont think he realized that it was posted because the bm and nwo because he lost, and he wanted to show he can beat Strelok (btw with the most abusive TvT build i know although im not an expert in TvT by any means)
On March 21 2009 14:15 daz wrote: idra has such a horrible attitude for someones whos trying to become a "professional". seriously do his teammates and coaches know he acts like this? I cant imagine they would tolerate it. I dont even tolerate players on my amateur cs team acting like that. its fucking pathetic
oh hell ive seen one of my teammates disc hacking on iccup the 'professional' part just means we do this for a living
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Good one Idra! You feel offended. Understandable *sarcasm*
On March 21 2009 14:15 daz wrote: idra has such a horrible attitude for someones whos trying to become a "professional". seriously do his teammates and coaches know he acts like this? I cant imagine they would tolerate it. I dont even tolerate players on my amateur cs team acting like that. its fucking pathetic
oh hell ive seen one of my teammates disc hacking on iccup the 'professional' part just means we do this for a living
wow if you think this game was worth spending like 4 hours making a gigantic post about due to like 3 lines of e-drama, then you might want to step into a random 1v1 game on US east and play.
Why do people flock to shit on this kid? GOD FORBID SOMEONE HAVE BAD MANNERS OVER THE INTERNET.
Also, being an asshole and losing a game doesn't make him a bad player lol.
idra knows he deserves shit.. I've seen him do this.. he really cannot help it. That doesn't mean it is "ok" or something but talking shit or calling for heads to roll isn't going to help/do anything. Just laugh when he does this. Maybe it will bite him in the ass some day but for now it isn't a big deal. Strelok won the game. Didn't need a nice conversation on top of it
btw
greg saying "don't be a drama queen, learn from strelok" is about as hilarious as it gets. IDRA telling people to LEARN from something.. WHAT?
On March 21 2009 14:50 Elite00fm wrote: Also, being an asshole and losing a game doesn't make him a bad player lol.
He's way below average as a progamer. And if he keeps being childish and whining after every loss, no one is gonna support/cheer for him. Being good will become 1000 times harder if you got no support as you're the only foreign player in Korea. I personally believe he will stay below average forever until he quits
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Maybe it's you who should learn from him, and stop being a bm shit :D
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Maybe it's you who should learn from him, and stop being a bm shit :D
but then you all wouldnt have anything to be outraged over and distract you from your own pitiful lives :D
On March 21 2009 15:14 monstar123 wrote: Idra doesnt deserve to be a progamer. After 1000 years of hard training he will still lose to foreign players. Cj shoul ban this BM.
At least someone here is making sense. ...God Assem, why did you quit?
On March 21 2009 15:07 WindCalibur wrote: Idra should just leave the game without saying GG if he is that frustrated /pissed off
That's what I do when I am frustrated. I'm sure everyone has their moments, but I doubt IdrA does stuff like this every time he loses a game. It's just emphasized on when it does actually happen and since it was with another top foreigner. So all we can do is laugh at it and move on hoping it doesn't happen too often. I don't think this topic was necessary because there are already like 3/4 others on it. If I were a mod I probably would have closed this by now.
Idra constantly acts BM because it's the only attention he gets and he is desperate for some recognition, regardless of its nature. If there weren't any threads about what an asshole he was, his name wouldn't been seen until the 140th page.
I'm sure if any of us were as forgettable as Idra and going no where in a country we can't speak the language we would be crying out for any attention we could get also. Take it easy on him.
On March 21 2009 14:50 Elite00fm wrote: Also, being an asshole and losing a game doesn't make him a bad player lol.
He's way below average as a progamer. And if he keeps being childish and whining after every loss, no one is gonna support/cheer for him. Being good will become 1000 times harder if you got no support as you're the only foreign player in Korea. I personally believe he will stay below average forever until he quits
well of course he is a below-average progamer, did you expect him to just fly over to Korea and win an OSL or something? I'm sure you probably look like a piece shit that will never accomplish anything when compared to the very best in what you do. The only progamers you hear about are the best ones; the ones who make it into and do well in the starleagues, the ones who are the very best on their respective teams and are sent out to play in proleague/winnersleague. How often do you hear about progamers lower than like the top 100 or so in kespa?
Even if he stays below average for his whole stay in korea, it won't be because of what he types after losing a meaningless game on iccup, it will probably be be because of something a little more realistic. for example: language barrier, non-immersion into the korean pro scene until actually coming to korea, lack of interest, culture shock, homesickness, the eventual need to return home and attend college, or the possible fading of his dedication.
He is almost B+ right now on iccup with an 80% winrate, if you didn't know who he was and played a game against him, you would probably be all over his dick right now in the "ICC Who Is Who Season 8" thread saying, "OMG LOOK AT THIS GUY'S RECORD HERE IS THE REP OF MY PLAYING HIM HE HAS TO BE PROGAMER HE BEAT ME SO BADLY OMG OMG!!11" rather than in this thread saying he sucks because he isn't out playing for CJ in winners league or something.
On March 21 2009 15:32 Myrkskog wrote: Idra constantly acts BM because it's the only attention he gets and he is desperate for some recognition, regardless of its nature. If there weren't any threads about what an asshole he was, his name wouldn't been seen until the 140th page.
I'm sure if any of us were as forgettable as Idra and going no where in a country we can't speak the language we would be crying out for any attention we could get also. Take it easy on him.
I just LOVE the psychologists that jump in every time explaning "his feelings" and "circumstances" that lead to his BM.
On March 21 2009 15:07 WindCalibur wrote: Idra should just leave the game without saying GG if he is that frustrated /pissed off
Remember when everyone gave him shit for saying "g" and nothing during his match with F91?
...
Right.
That was liquibition. A lot of people were watching that stuff. I mean if you were watched by a lot of people, it would be respectful/wise to say gg even if you are frustrated. However, in these matchups where it isn't going to be watched by thousands of people (well atleast they dont KNOW whether the replay will be posted or not), not typing gg is perfectly fine. I'm sure a lot of people don't type gg when they are frustrated.
On March 21 2009 15:07 WindCalibur wrote: Idra should just leave the game without saying GG if he is that frustrated /pissed off
Remember when everyone gave him shit for saying "g" and nothing during his match with F91?
...
Right.
1) That was on a live stream with tonnes of people watching, so naturally people will expect a full "gg" because basically every other pro gamer says it. 2) Not saying "gg" isn't considered BM by everyone, so if he doesn't feel like saying it and you were expecting it then tough luck, it's his choice, no need to be a dick about it. Just because all those people gave him shit because in their opinion it was BM doesn't mean half of TL needs to go on a flame fest. Half of the people who flamed him anyway are just conforming to crowd.
IMO the match with F91 wasn't really BM, but in this thread, where he goes beyond not saying "gg", and actually says shit about Strelok, yes I would consider that BM.
That's why I agreed with WindCalibur, if you are upset and don't want to say "gg", there is nothing preventing you from doing it, and all those faggots who flame you afterwards are the ones who need to grow the fuck up.
On March 21 2009 15:34 Elite00fm wrote: Even if he stays below average for his whole stay in korea, it won't be because of what he types after losing a meaningless game on iccup, it will probably be be because of something a little more realistic. for example: language barrier, non-immersion into the korean pro scene until actually coming to korea, lack of interest, culture shock, homesickness, the eventual need to return home and attend college, or the possible fading of his dedication.
I was going to joke about how Idra sees people in CJ dischack, and how Savior was #1 on iccup, but I couldn't think of a way to do it without risking bannage that would still have any edge to it.
On March 21 2009 15:34 Elite00fm wrote: Even if he stays below average for his whole stay in korea, it won't be because of what he types after losing a meaningless game on iccup, it will probably be be because of something a little more realistic. for example: language barrier, non-immersion into the korean pro scene until actually coming to korea, lack of interest, culture shock, homesickness, the eventual need to return home and attend college, or the possible fading of his dedication.
lol are you his mom?
well at least someone here understands Idra.
...
Yeah posting realistic reasons that would hinder his success means I have a deep, maternal connection with idra that allows me fully understand every aspect of his being.
On March 21 2009 15:52 TryThis wrote: we're already had the to say or not to say gg argument, lets avoid it shall we?
???????????? I never asked to discuss it; also I never even said whether it is BM or not(because it everyone has their own opinion and they aren't going to change it)
Believe me, such a silly argument is the last thing I want to discuss....
What I'm getting at is: Yes, it is obvious that what was said in this replay was BM, but it's not like it happens with every single game he plays, this one just to happens to be on where it does happen, so lets laugh at it now and forget and forgive. After all it's not like he is calling out players as he plays in a league or something. This was simply an iCCup match, it's no need to decide someones career on or anything. It happens to the best of us.
That is why I believe only one thread should have been made for this topic(instead of the 3/4 others), and this should be closed by now.
On March 21 2009 14:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote: idra knows he deserves shit.. I've seen him do this.. he really cannot help it. That doesn't mean it is "ok" or something but talking shit or calling for heads to roll isn't going to help/do anything. Just laugh when he does this. Maybe it will bite him in the ass some day but for now it isn't a big deal. Strelok won the game. Didn't need a nice conversation on top of it
btw
greg saying "don't be a drama queen, learn from strelok" is about as hilarious as it gets. IDRA telling people to LEARN from something.. WHAT?
It could bite him in the ass sooner than later. If this were to somehow make it to a korean site like ygosu or fommos it could put CJ in a very tight spot. Not just idra being his usual self but he just said that CJ entus members disc hack on a public ladder. Koreans have a very harsh view on things that put them in a bad light as far as i know.
On March 21 2009 14:54 {88}iNcontroL wrote: idra knows he deserves shit.. I've seen him do this.. he really cannot help it. That doesn't mean it is "ok" or something but talking shit or calling for heads to roll isn't going to help/do anything. Just laugh when he does this. Maybe it will bite him in the ass some day but for now it isn't a big deal. Strelok won the game. Didn't need a nice conversation on top of it
btw
greg saying "don't be a drama queen, learn from strelok" is about as hilarious as it gets. IDRA telling people to LEARN from something.. WHAT?
Did you guys read this? It's gold, who cares how he acts- it pumps up the drama we all seem to love. Just laugh. Maybe he'll stop sometime, maybe he won't- who cares how he acts. If it really bothers you just ignore him.
I'm the same and my friends are too, he's the outspoken starcraft player, big deal, being blunt or frustrated shouldn't result in an outrage of randoms bashing this guy.
Heh what a douche. I mean insulting him so uncivilly might not reasonably be expected to do any good but the man's attitude is clearly lacking professionalism.
On March 21 2009 14:15 daz wrote: idra has such a horrible attitude for someones whos trying to become a "professional". seriously do his teammates and coaches know he acts like this? I cant imagine they would tolerate it. I dont even tolerate players on my amateur cs team acting like that. its fucking pathetic
oh hell ive seen one of my teammates disc hacking on iccup the 'professional' part just means we do this for a living
Yea folks! chicka chicka yeeeaaaaa pro gammeerrrr
lol
but yeah, hes bm. so what, does it REALLY bother anyone THAT much? jesus christ it seems like as soon as idra is mentioned in a thread, an army of posters jump on his nutsack and let loose with all sorts of shit i consider bm or rude anyway
he lost the game but hes still a good player. and hes undoubtably improved since he went to korea, so whats the big fucking problem? if its not the bm, its that he doesnt measure up to everyone else's standards. the guy has become alot better since he started playing professionally, so props for that. it doesnt matter if he doesnt become a superstar, im sure you are all familiar with the concept of a P.B
idra bashing got old real fast, much like america bashing and protoss bashing
i think it would be better to see a good playin idra for entertainment than a bm playin idra. If i want bm, i make a play obs on east, and thats it. Not fkin funny -_-
The point is: Strelok did absolutely NOTHING to Idra. He even supported him in some posts before the game, and even "IN" the game IdrA trolls Strelok like the game was meant to be "one sided" because IdrA plays with a professional team. I mean seriously, what the fuck man? Coming from a kid who is on a pro team who says "fucking skilless newbie" at the end: thats pretty fucking lame in my opinion. Anyone else agree?
It doesnt matter if the kid was frustrated or not, stop throwing out excuses. It doesnt matter if the kid is a natural bad mannered little faggot, thats not the point.. The point is, the kid is apparently playing with a professional pro team, and him getting frustrated over a LOSE versus a foreigner TvT spitting out flames you would see in typical low-level games means the kid obviously has no respect for any player beating the shit out of him in any matchup. I couldnt recall how many profiles on iccup i have see so far this season stating "BM: SCL-IdrA". Completely lame.
On March 21 2009 16:44 BunkerPush wrote: People...
The point is: Strelok did absolutely NOTHING to Idra. He even supported him in some posts before the game, and even "IN" the game IdrA trolls Strelok like the game was meant to be "one sided" because IdrA plays with a professional team. I mean seriously, what the fuck man? Coming from a kid who is on a pro team who says "fucking skilless newbie" at the end: thats pretty fucking lame in my opinion. Anyone else agree?
It doesnt matter if the kid was frustrated or not, stop throwing out excuses. It doesnt matter if the kid is a natural bad mannered little faggot, thats not the point.. The point is, the kid is apparently playing with a professional pro team, and him getting frustrated over a LOSE versus a foreigner TvT spitting out flames you would see in typical low-level games means the kid obviously has no respect for any player beating the shit out of him in any matchup. I couldnt recall how many profiles on iccup i have see so far this season stating "BM: SCL-IdrA". Completely lame.
Get over it. Idra is a true faggot.
wow jesus christ
easy fixed, just IGNORE what he says/doesnt say and just watch the game
and yes, if i was playing professionally, training hard and probably not getting enough sleep, and i was losing to foreign players and every random person under the sun comes out and blasts me about not only starcraft but how i 'fail at life' etc, id get a little bit frustrated too.
i cant imagine its the easiest environment, all he is really doing is letting off steam after losing a game. big deal, its just words, man up jesus christ. idra obviously doesnt bear any real malice towards strelok and i dont think strelok is half as angry as every hater on tl is, so just drop it
On March 21 2009 16:40 JohnColtrane wrote: but yeah, hes bm. so what, does it REALLY bother anyone THAT much? jesus christ it seems like as soon as idra is mentioned in a thread, an army of posters jump on his nutsack and let loose with all sorts of shit i consider bm or rude anyway
You nailed it. Half you guys act like Idra slept with your sister and kicked your dog too. Get over it.
On March 21 2009 14:50 Elite00fm wrote: Also, being an asshole and losing a game doesn't make him a bad player lol.
He's way below average as a progamer. And if he keeps being childish and whining after every loss, no one is gonna support/cheer for him. Being good will become 1000 times harder if you got no support as you're the only foreign player in Korea. I personally believe he will stay below average forever until he quits
well of course he is a below-average progamer, did you expect him to just fly over to Korea and win an OSL or something? I'm sure you probably look like a piece shit that will never accomplish anything when compared to the very best in what you do. The only progamers you hear about are the best ones; the ones who make it into and do well in the starleagues, the ones who are the very best on their respective teams and are sent out to play in proleague/winnersleague. How often do you hear about progamers lower than like the top 100 or so in kespa?
Even if he stays below average for his whole stay in korea, it won't be because of what he types after losing a meaningless game on iccup, it will probably be be because of something a little more realistic. for example: language barrier, non-immersion into the korean pro scene until actually coming to korea, lack of interest, culture shock, homesickness, the eventual need to return home and attend college, or the possible fading of his dedication.
He is almost B+ right now on iccup with an 80% winrate, if you didn't know who he was and played a game against him, you would probably be all over his dick right now in the "ICC Who Is Who Season 8" thread saying, "OMG LOOK AT THIS GUY'S RECORD HERE IS THE REP OF MY PLAYING HIM HE HAS TO BE PROGAMER HE BEAT ME SO BADLY OMG OMG!!11" rather than in this thread saying he sucks because he isn't out playing for CJ in winners league or something.
Are you stupid or what? My point is, Idra sucks ass as a progamer. He's a bm kid, which doesnt gain him any support at all. Thus he'll have a very hard time to become a good player and I believe he will always stay below average as a progamer.
Anything you said is irrelevant, showing that you aren't capable of making an argument. I suck at BW compared to him, so what? His iccup account is B+, so what ? Culture shock, so what??? Does any of these disprove my point or you just want to talk out of your ass. Anyway, you're his friend so I dont expect much.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Idra apologized at all. Not that he has to. Other people have the ability to realize when they've been an ass, and some may make moves to amend it. Knowing that Idra spends a good deal of time reading this forum, and having replied to this thread himself, its clear that he meant what he said. That or he doesn't care to retract his statement. For all of you who are supporting him, and saying that he'd still own my ass - well so what. Its not like I spend all day playing this game and care. For what he's put into this game and what he'll eventually get back from it; its clear who the loser is. And yes Idra, I'm sorry, you are a loser.
On March 21 2009 11:05 talismania wrote: who uses the name kafir? very disrespectful...
"Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate," also the term "Kuffar" the plural of the word "Kafir" is used to refer to peasants."
Hmmmmmm
Kafir means to reject and is usually used to refer to non-muslims or disbelievers in Islaam (i.e they rejected the truth --> rejectors). Kuffar is just the plural of 'Kafir'
Not non believers in Islam, but people who dont believe in a single god, hence jews and Christians are not considered kafirs xD
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Maybe it's you who should learn from him, and stop being a bm shit :D
but then you all wouldnt have anything to be outraged over and distract you from your own pitiful lives :D
Lol, you telling people they have pitiful lives, thats hilarious.
You guys are such lameasses lol. Who the hell cares what Idra says. He's BM OMGOMGOMGOMG. HE'S SO COCKY ALWAYS THINKS HES GONNA WIN AND THEN LOSES AND IS ALL "WOW WTF NOOB BAD BUILDZ" SO UNPROFESSIONAL
Who the fuck cares? I'm sick of every thread IdrA posting in turning into 3-4 "cool" guys trying to criticize his every fucking move and every fucking word he says. What's funny is they act like they are representing the entire Teamliquid community and that they are standing up to some tyrant and are in turn some kind of internet heros. Get's old and brings down thread quality in TL overall.
On March 21 2009 17:30 Vasoline73 wrote: You guys are such lameasses lol. Who the hell cares what Idra says. He's BM OMGOMGOMGOMG. HE'S SO COCKY ALWAYS THINKS HES GONNA WIN AND THEN LOSES AND IS ALL "WOW WTF NOOB BAD BUILDZ" SO UNPROFESSIONAL
Who the fuck cares? I'm sick of every thread IdrA posting in turning into 3-4 "cool" guys trying to criticize his every fucking move and every fucking word he says. What's funny is they act like they are representing the entire Teamliquid community and that they are standing up to some tyrant and are in turn some kind of internet heros. Get's old and brings down thread quality in TL overall.
But..he IS the tyrant of the internet. How can you not see this?
I'm not good by any means...but if i was up to par with some of these top level non-koreans and IdrA pulled some stupid bm like this i'd punch him in the face
People face no repercussions on the internet...and to put in in contrast i play table tennis at a fairly high level and have competed in some USATT tournament in the area (haven't made the olympics yet ) but i HAVE been beaten by an inferior player and i've never once mouthed off to them about making gay push shots while i'm 5 ft back from the table or gay net-double-bouncing fuck shots or whatever else
Don't get me wrong...i love the fact that we have a USA player on a Proteam...but you think he'd at least have some respect for the players that can beat him...even if they'd lose in a bo99 or whatever.
I hope he comes to one of these Boston LANs so i can pop him a good one and shut up the cocky-ass nerd mouth that's on him...so many more people would respect what he's doing and where he is if he wasn't such a bitch ass whiner
Or maybe Artosis can get out to one of our Boston LANs and explain the nerd-rage syndrome to me...
Tip for the future: Do what i do...play til there's NO CHANCE of winning...*enter* gg *enter* alt qq
On March 21 2009 17:51 SickTighT wrote: ok no seriously...
I'm not good by any means...but if i was up to par with some of these top level non-koreans and IdrA pulled some stupid bm like this i'd punch him in the face
People face no repercussions on the internet...and to put in in contrast i play table tennis at a fairly high level and have competed in some USATT tournament in the area (haven't made the olympics yet ) but i HAVE been beaten by an inferior player and i've never once mouthed off to them about making gay push shots while i'm 5 ft back from the table or gay net-double-bouncing fuck shots or whatever else
Don't get me wrong...i love the fact that we have a USA player on a Proteam...but you think he'd at least have some respect for the players that can beat him...even if they'd lose in a bo99 or whatever.
I hope he comes to one of these Boston LANs so i can pop him a good one and shut up the cocky-ass nerd mouth that's on him...so many more people would respect what he's doing and where he is if he wasn't such a bitch ass whiner
Or maybe Artosis can get out to one of our Boston LANs and explain the nerd-rage syndrome to me...
Tip for the future: Do what i do...play til there's NO CHANCE of winning...*enter* gg *enter* alt qq
Start next game
youre going to punch him for saying words? thats alot worse than what idra is doing by far
and youre calling him a nerd so how is that any better than idra calling someone a newbie?
Yeah him dishing out a few lines of trash talk when he's angry means he has 0 respect for the person. And I bet you'd punch him in the face. That's the beauty of the internet, people can vent more than they normally would. I'd say that's healthier infact. As long as everyone can take the trash talk as well as strelok did.
On March 21 2009 17:57 Divinek wrote: Yeah him dishing out a few lines of trash talk when he's angry means he has 0 respect for the person. And I bet you'd punch him in the face. That's the beauty of the internet, people can vent more than they normally would. I'd say that's healthier infact. As long as everyone can take the trash talk as well as strelok did.
im not going to punch idra in the face if i beat him in a game and he calls me a skilless newbie, terrible or etc. just be a grown up and either ignore it or let it pass. its not hurting anyone is it, and he looks bad by saying it, and the person that becomes the bigger man gets more respect
You posted while I was typing to the person above you and i was too lazy to go in and quote it properly. I was hoping you wouldn't misinterpret it, sry.
Just throwing this out there, not entirely related to IdrA vs Strelok but still on the topic.
Recently Boxer had an interview and he was asked what does he hope for and he said for e-sports to be recognized as real sports.
Looking at real sports, BM'ing is often met with either a penalty (bench time, yellow cards, etc) or heavy criticism. Icons like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, David Beckham are rarely seen talking trash to their opponents (more often than not I see M.J. posters advocating reaching for your goals, which just adds a little bit more difference to what I am about to say).
Now, you have to decide. Do you want to promote BM'ing and laugh at it, or discourage it? The worst thing that can happen in a sport like soccer -- as an example -- is a fan riot, and I don't remember a single time one of those turned out well. I'd rather have more people playing SC and for the "foreigner scene" to be stopped called as such, and instead it all be called "SC scene," but without the role models, you won't get anywhere. I am happy that there's US players in S.K., but you need to have people who promote good sportsmanship if you want to have SC become more than something you play in your bedroom and comment about what some random progamer said/does/is.
Imagine if Boxer was a BMer. Would people like him as much? I've read at quite a few places that he's heralded as one of the people who pushed for e-sports to be recognized at all. He's one of the few "serious" gamers I've seen (the other being Fatal1ty), and I don't think SC would be half as good as it is without someone who's as professional about it as he is.
So yeah, it can either be a past-time game, or a sport, depending on you.
On March 21 2009 18:05 Divinek wrote: You posted while I was typing to the person above you and i was too lazy to go in and quote it properly. I was hoping you wouldn't misinterpret it, sry.
I'm by no means a violent person but yes...if people have a lack of respect, I've no reservations about putting them in their place one way or another.
Also nerd isn't meant as an insult...hell we're all nerds here...so no, me calling IdrA a nerd isn't as bad as IdrA calling Strelok a newbie
I've never said ANYTHING on the internet that I wouldn't say in real life or to a particular person's face...I believe that if more people functioned this way we'd have quite a few less forum trolls and people in general would be more respectful. Ex. squeeze past someone in a bar, store, place of entertainment, restaurant...what do you say? Exactly, most people would say some form of "Excuse me", "Pardon me" or the like, how do you view the ones who DON'T do this when they do this to you? You'd be slightly pissed off...now what if this person was someone who went to YOUR bar and did this to EVERYONE who came in for a drink and not only that disrespected them for what they do, wear whatever? Feel like defending your territory/others in your community? Would you ask them to leave? Tell the bar owner? I'm sure you'd do SOMETHING whether it be talk to some authority figure or take some course of action yourself...I'm astounded that someone hasn't taken action other than BM IdrA back at this point to be honest...
On March 21 2009 18:27 SickTighT wrote: I'm by no means a violent person but yes...if people have a lack of respect, I've no reservations about putting them in their place one way or another
Also nerd isn't meant as an insult...hell we're all nerds here...so no, me calling IdrA a nerd isn't as bad as IdrA calling Strelok a newbie
instead of bming them back, you hit somebody?
how long have you been playing? we are all newbies compared to someone, either in the time we have been playing or our level of skill
and i take more offense to being called a 'nerd' rather than a 'newbie'. newbie doesnt even sound bad at all. its like comparing someone calling someone gay, or someone calling them a faggot
On March 21 2009 10:39 ilistis wrote: Wow. Where is all that practice going? 8+ hours a day with progamers and yet he still loses to foreigners. tsk tsk.
This is just my own theory but maybe the koreans doesn't really care about IdrA and doesn't let him practice enough against koreans and IdrA is too proud to admit that he's being treated badly.
Maybe this is true, maybe not, I really want to find a reason other than IdrA is bad. I guess it's many conditions like language, culture and stuff that adds up too. Maybe Rekrul takes him out partying too much?
Idra is an asshole, but he doesn't suck at SC, he would own your ass any day.
He never said he was better then Idra.. he is simply saying that being in korea for half a year should have made him too good for any foreigner to beat. Im pretty sure someone like F91,Mondragon,PJ,Legend,Androide or Never would be insanely skilled after 6months practicing with progamers
On March 21 2009 18:27 SickTighT wrote: I'm by no means a violent person but yes...if people have a lack of respect, I've no reservations about putting them in their place one way or another
Also nerd isn't meant as an insult...hell we're all nerds here...so no, me calling IdrA a nerd isn't as bad as IdrA calling Strelok a newbie
instead of bming them back, you hit somebody?
how long have you been playing? we are all newbies compared to someone, either in the time we have been playing or our level of skill
and i take more offense to being called a 'nerd' rather than a 'newbie'. newbie doesnt even sound bad at all. its like comparing someone calling someone gay, or someone calling them a faggot
I edited...but sorry to tell you dude...we're all nerds ....
I've been playing since 1999
We're basically a cult following a 10+ year old game...I love this game and I preach it to everyone I know, but I'm also comfortable with the fact that I am indeed a NERD
EDIT: Also I'm 23, have a wife (who also plays!) and a 5 month old daughter so you can say I've seen a little 'Slice of Life' (+39843247324 for Dexter reference!!!)
Idras' responses in this thread were nice, me like. Then again I've always liked idra for whatever reason even though I think that insulting ppl sucks. But again anyone that understands tvt care to explain how strelok caught up in supply so effortlessly??
"Seth, Seth, Seth. Listen up, ass-face: every day, hundreds of kids log onto ICCUP with fake IDs, and every single one says they're B+. Pssh, how many B+ players do you think there are in this town? It's called fucking strategy, all right?"
Not defending IdrA in any way here, he knows hisself that it was dumb what he did but he's probably really eager to do his best and to win. He has the spirit to be a progamer and when he loses he's just fucking mad at hisself. Really..
No one of you guys have flamed right?; Its better than bottle up anger..;
Seriously people get sooo worked up over idra... it just makes me laugh, honestly. You guys try and be smart, say things that are always said because you hate him for the reason he explained - "i get pissed off when i lose". If idra wasn't BM, he'd be a standard terran in korea who'd just be called a nerd. He wouldn't be critisized by internet psychologists that seem to be everywhere.
On March 21 2009 19:14 Camlito wrote: Seriously people get sooo worked up over idra... it just makes me laugh, honestly. You guys try and be smart, say things that are always said because you hate him for the reason he explained - "i get pissed off when i lose". If idra wasn't BM, he'd be a standard terran in korea who'd just be called a nerd. He wouldn't be critisized by internet psychologists that seem to be everywhere.
I just try and enjoy the drama now .
I'm not even that worked up but his lack of respect irks me
I get mad when I lose too but I don't flame the other person...other than a BM gg...in which case I tell them the game could be over now and I'd gg and leave but since you're a disrespectful bitch I'll go afk and make you kill all my shit
On March 21 2009 11:05 talismania wrote: who uses the name kafir? very disrespectful...
"Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate," also the term "Kuffar" the plural of the word "Kafir" is used to refer to peasants."
Hmmmmmm
Kafir means to reject and is usually used to refer to non-muslims or disbelievers in Islaam (i.e they rejected the truth --> rejectors). Kuffar is just the plural of 'Kafir'
Not non believers in Islam, but people who dont believe in a single god, hence jews and Christians are not considered kafirs xD
actually technically (in the grammar and Islamic sense) they are but they are usually referred to as 'ahlul-kitab' which means the people of the book (i.e Bible and Torah). People who don't believe in a single god would be mushrik.
Anyways, I don't want to get into Arabic grammar and linguistics cause a word in Arabic can have mulitple meanings especially when used as Islamic Terminology.
On March 21 2009 10:39 ilistis wrote: Wow. Where is all that practice going? 8+ hours a day with progamers and yet he still loses to foreigners. tsk tsk.
This is just my own theory but maybe the koreans doesn't really care about IdrA and doesn't let him practice enough against koreans and IdrA is too proud to admit that he's being treated badly.
Maybe this is true, maybe not, I really want to find a reason other than IdrA is bad. I guess it's many conditions like language, culture and stuff that adds up too. Maybe Rekrul takes him out partying too much?
Idra is an asshole, but he doesn't suck at SC, he would own your ass any day.
Relevant input. Zoler beeing better then idra is what zoler was talking about. Ty sir.
On March 21 2009 13:18 yubee wrote: idra acts like a little bitch when he loses, what else is new
idra acts like a little bitch period
On March 21 2009 14:15 daz wrote: idra has such a horrible attitude for someones whos trying to become a "professional". seriously do his teammates and coaches know he acts like this? I cant imagine they would tolerate it. I dont even tolerate players on my amateur cs team acting like that. its fucking pathetic
Good question.
On March 21 2009 14:15 daz wrote: idra has such a horrible attitude for someones whos trying to become a "professional". seriously do his teammates and coaches know he acts like this? I cant imagine they would tolerate it. I dont even tolerate players on my amateur cs team acting like that. its fucking pathetic
On March 21 2009 14:15 daz wrote: idra has such a horrible attitude for someones whos trying to become a "professional". seriously do his teammates and coaches know he acts like this? I cant imagine they would tolerate it. I dont even tolerate players on my amateur cs team acting like that. its fucking pathetic
oh hell ive seen one of my teammates disc hacking on iccup the 'professional' part just means we do this for a living
I like your attitude. It's time to grow up and realize that u might not be as good as you think. That might do u some good and help you improve.
On March 21 2009 14:50 Elite00fm wrote: wow if you think this game was worth spending like 4 hours making a gigantic post about due to like 3 lines of e-drama, then you might want to step into a random 1v1 game on US east and play.
Why do people flock to shit on this kid? GOD FORBID SOMEONE HAVE BAD MANNERS OVER THE INTERNET.
Also, being an asshole and losing a game doesn't make him a bad player lol.
It's not really about someone beeing BM. It's about our hope in the foreign community acting like:
On March 21 2009 15:14 monstar123 wrote: Idra doesnt deserve to be a progamer. After 1000 years of hard training he will still lose to foreign players. Cj shoul ban this BM.
On March 21 2009 15:32 Myrkskog wrote: Idra constantly acts BM because it's the only attention he gets and he is desperate for some recognition, regardless of its nature. If there weren't any threads about what an asshole he was, his name wouldn't been seen until the 140th page.
I'm sure if any of us were as forgettable as Idra and going no where in a country we can't speak the language we would be crying out for any attention we could get also. Take it easy on him.
True.
On March 21 2009 15:54 No_eL wrote: Strelok wins not only in the game... he wins in the life... Idra its a shame for all the foreigner players...
Strelok make vods for teaching their terran way to another gamers...
Idra its a faggot. The most famous BM around the world.
I hope the koreans realized that they make a mistake with this LITTLE guy.
On March 21 2009 18:06 Jovan wrote: Just throwing this out there, not entirely related to IdrA vs Strelok but still on the topic.
Recently Boxer had an interview and he was asked what does he hope for and he said for e-sports to be recognized as real sports.
Looking at real sports, BM'ing is often met with either a penalty (bench time, yellow cards, etc) or heavy criticism. Icons like Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, David Beckham are rarely seen talking trash to their opponents (more often than not I see M.J. posters advocating reaching for your goals, which just adds a little bit more difference to what I am about to say).
Now, you have to decide. Do you want to promote BM'ing and laugh at it, or discourage it? The worst thing that can happen in a sport like soccer -- as an example -- is a fan riot, and I don't remember a single time one of those turned out well. I'd rather have more people playing SC and for the "foreigner scene" to be stopped called as such, and instead it all be called "SC scene," but without the role models, you won't get anywhere. I am happy that there's US players in S.K., but you need to have people who promote good sportsmanship if you want to have SC become more than something you play in your bedroom and comment about what some random progamer said/does/is.
Imagine if Boxer was a BMer. Would people like him as much? I've read at quite a few places that he's heralded as one of the people who pushed for e-sports to be recognized at all. He's one of the few "serious" gamers I've seen (the other being Fatal1ty), and I don't think SC would be half as good as it is without someone who's as professional about it as he is.
So yeah, it can either be a past-time game, or a sport, depending on you.
I was thinking more like Ziigmund, but Phil Helmuth is a pretty good match too lol, probably even better.
except Phil Helmuth is one of the best players ever and Idra is just one in the bunch
On March 21 2009 19:00 Tonkerchen wrote: I saw the game yesterday and... LOL'd ahahaha löl# sry but that's not the attitude that a progamer should have -_-
I just want to add. Promoting BM-players and players who do this for a living is just wrong and I really hope that the American community realizes that too, inspite of Greg beeing their/our only "good" foreigner in Korea. I always hoped he'd do well in Korea, but now I feel like it's time to send the kid home. Give someone who can reach the top a chance instead of a bitter washed up kid with tourettes syndrome. Either grow up and start acting like a professional gamer or just quit son.
I bet IdrA and Strelok were talking before the game and the conversation went something like this:
IdrA: Hey lets rile people up! Strelok: How's that? IdrA: Well, we'll start with me getting a huge advantange, and then things shall go downhill for me and you'll be victorious. Strelok: I don't see how that will rile people up though! IdrA: Simple, I go BM in the middle of the game and at the end. Strelok: Oh, sure!
I really greatly respect Idra. Why? Because he is probably the most successful troll I've ever seen. He trolls TL threads by proxy of a starcraft replay. He trolled all of you, even rekrul into making a huge drama post. He's basically the most successful troll I've ever seen, but he does it so covertly that nobody stops to think "Maybe I shouldn't shine a light on this!"
Everyone thinks they have something insightful to say or that they can actually change his mind but get real. Idra BM's when he loses. Who cares? Apparently enough of you guys do to make it worth doing for him.
And no, I don't think he bm's just for attention, or atleast not consciously. I just thought about it and if I look at idra from the perspective of an Oakhill or someother huge forum troll, I all of a sudden gain a ton of respect for him.
On March 21 2009 18:54 Phoned wrote: McLovin + IdrA = McTerran
"Seth, Seth, Seth. Listen up, ass-face: every day, hundreds of kids log onto ICCUP with fake IDs, and every single one says they're B+. Pssh, how many B+ players do you think there are in this town? It's called fucking strategy, all right?"
On March 21 2009 11:05 talismania wrote: who uses the name kafir? very disrespectful...
"Kafir (Arabic: كافر kāfir; plural كفّار kuffār) is an Arabic word meaning "rejecter" or "ingrate," also the term "Kuffar" the plural of the word "Kafir" is used to refer to peasants."
Hmmmmmm
Kafir means to reject and is usually used to refer to non-muslims or disbelievers in Islaam (i.e they rejected the truth --> rejectors). Kuffar is just the plural of 'Kafir'
Not non believers in Islam, but people who dont believe in a single god, hence jews and Christians are not considered kafirs xD
actually technically (in the grammar and Islamic sense) they are but they are usually referred to as 'ahlul-kitab' which means the people of the book (i.e Bible and Torah). People who don't believe in a single god would be mushrik.
Anyways, I don't want to get into Arabic grammar and linguistics cause a word in Arabic can have mulitple meanings especially when used as Islamic Terminology.
i was just trying to think of an iccup smurf and googled 'cool words' that came up defined as an insult that meant godless heathen
On March 21 2009 19:55 404.Nintu wrote: I really greatly respect Idra. Why? Because he is probably the most successful troll I've ever seen. He trolls TL threads by proxy of a starcraft replay. He trolled all of you, even rekrul into making a huge drama post. He's basically the most successful troll I've ever seen, but he does it so covertly that nobody stops to think "Maybe I shouldn't shine a light on this!"
Everyone thinks they have something insightful to say or that they can actually change his mind but get real. Idra BM's when he loses. Who cares? Apparently enough of you guys do to make it worth doing for him.
And no, I don't think he bm's just for attention, or atleast not consciously. I just thought about it and if I look at idra from the perspective of an Oakhill or someother huge forum troll, I all of a sudden gain a ton of respect for him.
I don't think you know what a troll is, which would explain why you like idra.
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
I hope that you do not act like this in our country in the future, you will not get very far and will only make yourself and future foreigners that come here to play starcraft look bad. When you decided to become a programer it became your responsibility to represent all foreigners whether you like it or not.
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Please do not act like this in our country, you will not get very far and will only make yourself and future foreigners that come here to play starcraft look bad. When you decided to become a programer it became your responsibility to represent all foreigners whether you like it or not.
Our rep was trashed long ago when most of the white guys who went over there and ended up being a complete waste of time and money.
On March 21 2009 19:55 404.Nintu wrote: Everyone thinks they have something insightful to say or that they can actually change his mind but get real. Idra BM's when he loses. Who cares? Apparently enough of you guys do to make it worth doing for him.
Insightful? Not so much...Truth? Much more likely
I don't care about changing his mind, if he had the balls to do it in person I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who would make him think twice about doing it again.
He's not really trolling, because when he's speaking about the game and strategies he's very insightful and has a shitload of good points and makes the game look easy to play by the way he describes it. It's just when he gets like this and BM's someone good enough to beat him he won't give credit where credit is due.
Perhaps you consider that trolling?
And again I have a ton of respect for IdrA as far as playing the game of Starcraft goes but it doesn't go an inch past that.
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Please do not act like this in our country, you will not get very far and will only make yourself and future foreigners that come here to play starcraft look bad. When you decided to become a programer it became your responsibility to represent all foreigners whether you like it or not.
Our rep was trashed long ago when most of the white guys who went over there and ended up being a complete waste of time and money.
So then are you saying that it is OK to continue to trash that reputation?
I consider trolling to be anyone who manipulates people online to lavish attention upon him, even if it's negative attention. I realize it's a loose definition, but that's the way I meant it.
On March 21 2009 18:54 Phoned wrote: McLovin + IdrA = McTerran
"Seth, Seth, Seth. Listen up, ass-face: every day, hundreds of kids log onto ICCUP with fake IDs, and every single one says they're B+. Pssh, how many B+ players do you think there are in this town? It's called fucking strategy, all right?"
On March 21 2009 18:54 Phoned wrote: McLovin + IdrA = McTerran
"Seth, Seth, Seth. Listen up, ass-face: every day, hundreds of kids log onto ICCUP with fake IDs, and every single one says they're B+. Pssh, how many B+ players do you think there are in this town? It's called fucking strategy, all right?"
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
Case in point as to my earlier post and I commend you for the bolded part
Awesome game insight...I swear if TL removed the IdrA 'troll' posts he would be a fucking hero
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
If Idra would not be a foreigner trying to be a pro gamer in korea he would just be one out of that few unknown 100 retarted bad mannered idiots playing this game.
And NO what Idra does isnt called being bad mannered It's called being an IDIOT
On March 21 2009 22:25 MaGic~PhiL wrote: If Idra would not be a foreigner trying to be a pro gamer in korea he would just be one out of that few 100 retarted bad mannered idiots playing this game.
And NO what Idra does isnt called being bad mannered It's called being an IDIOT
( that is no flame btw its a fact )
Actually, it's called being bad mannered. You can't equate idra being an idiot. So, it's not a fact. If you don't understand.
2+2=4 = Fact. Putting spoons on the left side, but not the right side because it is the right way of doing things = Not a fact.
What you're doing is bad mannered, but since you're a scientist (science = fact), then you are... Well, you can figure it out. Honestly, I don't understand how people are still surprised on the way Idra behaves.
Nothing wrong with being bad mannered. There's a saying that nothing anyone does can truly hurt you, so no matter what idra does, it's his opponent who chooses to take his insults to heart or to just realize that Idra got frustrated.
Anyhow, in a way, Idra's 'bm' is a reason to admire him. He's such a well known player, yet he doesn't hold back just to impress anyone.
On March 21 2009 22:32 MaGic~PhiL wrote: Sorry if you dont come to the conclusion that Idra is an Idiot to a certain degree, after reading this topic...
I've read all the pages just so I can laugh at the e-drama. You guys just keep instigating.
On March 21 2009 22:37 niteReloaded wrote: Nothing wrong with being bad mannered. There's a saying that nothing anyone does can truly hurt you, so no matter what idra does, it's his opponent who chooses to take his insults to heart or to just realize that Idra got frustrated.
Anyhow, in a way, Idra's 'bm' is a reason to admire him. He's such a well known player, yet he doesn't hold back just to impress anyone.
This forum is definitely lacking the right smilies to comment in a proper way to what u just wrote..
The game was great and i can see that idra is actually a better player than strelok.
+ i have watched some strelok replays, and i can say that his mechanics aren't very good...
+ Who gives a shit if idra is BM? Its the actual game that is important. We all sometimes get very angry and think these things. Idra just says what he thinks.
I personally think that idras main problem is anger or something, and that is holding him back. But i don't "really" know anything, that is just what i have seen.
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Maybe it's you who should learn from him, and stop being a bm shit :D
but then you all wouldnt have anything to be outraged over and distract you from your own pitiful lives :D
On March 21 2009 21:26 IdrA wrote: macro is my strength
I don't get this, everyone says it. Plexa and Chill preludes the liquibetion with talk about idras macro idra himself talks about his macro but seriously just take this game as an example: Look at the after game stats, idra produced way _less_ units than strelok while at the same time killing slightly _more_. Now of course he lost like all his scvs to wraiths but imo this is something that repeats itself throughout every idra game I have ever seen. Compared to other players about his level his micro is absolutely stellar while his macro seem to slip more often than not. Where does this talk about idra's macro come from really? The fact that he preferes defensive openings has nothing to do with how he choses to split his time between micro/macro in the midgame. I am probably missing something obvious though :p
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
In starcraft, we could all beat every single one of the greatest strategic minds in the history of world.
Does that mean we can't learn anything from them to improve our game?
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Damn, now I sympatize with you.
We all know a few bad losers. Bad losers are like junkies, they've lost control long ago. It's not their fault, they can't help attacking you with their keyboard after you dominate them in a game of DotA.
I still fucking hate bad losers though, grow the fuck up. I hate junkies too.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
I agree how people say he's terrible when he could beat them 200/200 times in a real game.
Mostly those idiots that say he's bad dont realize that he is a progamer and they suck dick compared to him and never will achieve anything of the sort.
Sure he's BM who gives a fuck? He says whats on his mind. Sure it hink the same shit he says but i dont say it. This isnt a topic to criticize a game its an insecure piece of shit (OP) trying to start a flamewar over Idra BMing strelok.
Fanaticist and arb, so what, you are suggesting that if a person is inferior in something, they are not allowed to criticize and point out the flaws of a better player?
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
Agree.
Also it's sad to see the world police look the other way when it's one of their own whos acting like the complete douche. Fuck man IdrA, you're supposed to be the one we look up to. You're the one in Korea doing what so many of us never could. Ur supposed to be our great white hope in Korea. Instead u whine, cry and flame every time u lose. Grow the fuck son and act pro-like, because that's what ur supposed to be, a fucking professional.
Where are you guys suggesting that no one here is qualified, or has the right to criticize Idra's play when any professional game of SC is being played? Why aren't you jumping to the defense of every progamer when someone here makes a statement regarding their play in WL or a starleague
People can criticize the builds and strategies of legitimate pros who CAN WIN GAMES but how dare we bring reproach on the misunderstood genius Idra, who's play is so fucking beyond anything anyone has ever seen that it loses vs inferior players, because we are all too dumb, too simple to even begin to realize the perfection that is his play.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
Than a theorizer for chess is not allowed to criticize a better player? He has the opportunity to watch the game again and again and he is able to see things, which the player didn't see during the game. A commentator for soccer is not allowed to criticize the play of a team?
You have no idea. What it means criticizing the gampeplay of somebody. If you watch the replay (or the VoD) you have a better idea of what is going on the battlefield, you are able to see things, which the player does not see. You have not to be the better player to criticize another players gameplay. You have only to have a good knowledge of the game.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
Than a theorizer for chess is not allowed to criticize a better player? He has the opportunity to watch the game again and again and he is able to see things, which the player didn't see during the game. A commentator for soccer is not allowed to criticize the play of a team?
You have no idea. What it means criticizing the gampeplay of somebody. If you watch the replay (or the VoD) you have a better idea of what is going on the battlefield, you are able to see things, which the player does not see. You have not to be the better player to criticize another players gameplay. You have only to have a good knowledge of the game.
So, you can criticize his play because you know things that he cannot possibly know during the game? My point exactly.
To extrapolate this concept, let's say a pro goes 13 nex on Andromeda which is pretty standard and scouts the wrong way. Zerg goes 4 pool and randomly guesses which way to attack. Protoss loses. You would be saying that you can criticize his play as being "too risky" because YOU knew what was going to happen. Sorry, but that critique is retarded and ignorant of the context and situation. That is basically what you're doing now.
Chess theorizing is different, since it is a strategy game with everything out in the open in front of you. There are absolute rights and wrongs because all the information you need is in front of you. A theorizer can say "this would be better..." etc. and it would be fact. You could say that about a SC game, and be a total dumbass because everything is NOT in the open and the player did NOT know the situation at hand to make that "perfect" decision. Hence metagame. Hence progamer's understanding of metagame being superior to ours. Hence, you are a scrub and IdrA is not, and you have no place to criticize the strategic aspects of the game beyond what IdrA claims to be his mistakes.
I'm so glad that Idra lost to Strelok after what he said at both the beginning and end of the game, especially after Strelok came out and defended Idra after the F91 game.
Idra just reminds me of the guy you knew when you where about ten, who always wanted to fight with you, and then whines when you kick him in the balls (you here being Strelok), complaining that its against the rules.
Gawd, I wish Idra well and all in Korea, but I wish he was a little more consistent.
(again just to be clear, I'm not criticising Idra's play compared to my own, because that would be pointless, since I'm omgterriblewtfbad, but to others around his skill level)
Kicking in the balls is low as hell, meant for survival situations only. Fail analogy. Get off the computer and do some laps and get stronger then beat the bully. Or simply avoid them. So many better solutions.
On March 21 2009 23:28 niteReloaded wrote: Fanaticist and arb, so what, you are suggesting that if a person is inferior in something, they are not allowed to criticize and point out the flaws of a better player?
that's simply wrong.
no,Sure they can point what whats wrong with someone i dont even really care. What i do care about however is the OP posting this FOR THE PURPOSE of starting a fucking flame fest which he knew would fucking happen before he hit post.
Thats so stupid, people dont like Idra big fucking deal all of these scrubs saying he sucks dick when they will never be ab le to do anything near what he is doing is fucking stupid.
On March 21 2009 23:28 niteReloaded wrote: Fanaticist and arb, so what, you are suggesting that if a person is inferior in something, they are not allowed to criticize and point out the flaws of a better player?
that's simply wrong.
no,Sure they can point what whats wrong with someone i dont even really care. What i do care about however is the OP posting this FOR THE PURPOSE of starting a fucking flame fest which he knew would fucking happen before he hit post.
Thats so stupid, people dont like Idra big fucking deal all of these scrubs saying he sucks dick when they will never be ab le to do anything near what he is doing is fucking stupid.
It's not stupid at all. He is supposed to be that good, according to himself. Not only does he not live up to his own hype. He acts like he's fucking five when he loses. Win or lose he should carry himself like the professional he is supposed to be.
People critisizing IdrA, when they cant _do_ it better, doesn't make them less knowledgeable about the fact that they _know_ what should have been done. Im not saying that everyone here knows better then IdrA, nor that he sucks. I'm just saying that people can critisize, even though they can't do it better themselves.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
Than a theorizer for chess is not allowed to criticize a better player? He has the opportunity to watch the game again and again and he is able to see things, which the player didn't see during the game. A commentator for soccer is not allowed to criticize the play of a team?
You have no idea. What it means criticizing the gampeplay of somebody. If you watch the replay (or the VoD) you have a better idea of what is going on the battlefield, you are able to see things, which the player does not see. You have not to be the better player to criticize another players gameplay. You have only to have a good knowledge of the game.
So, you can criticize his play because you know things that he cannot possibly know during the game? My point exactly.
To extrapolate this concept, let's say a pro goes 13 nex on Andromeda which is pretty standard and scouts the wrong way. Zerg goes 4 pool and randomly guesses which way to attack. Protoss loses. You would be saying that you can criticize his play as being "too risky" because YOU knew what was going to happen. Sorry, but that critique is retarded and ignorant of the context and situation. That is basically what you're doing now.
Chess theorizing is different, since it is a strategy game with everything out in the open in front of you. There are absolute rights and wrongs because all the information you need is in front of you. A theorizer can say "this would be better..." etc. and it would be fact. You could say that about a SC game, and be a total dumbass because everything is NOT in the open and the player did NOT know the situation at hand to make that "perfect" decision. Hence metagame. Hence progamer's understanding of metagame being superior to ours. Hence, you are a scrub and IdrA is not, and you have no place to criticize the strategic aspects of the game beyond what IdrA claims to be his mistakes.
Ok. Not chess.
Than we take another example.
The war.
There are tons of books aobut historical battles, written by great generals, in which they analyse historical battles. The generals in the battles did not exactly know, what their enemy was doing (like in SC; you do not knwo what your enemy is doing).
But you can criticize their strategy after the battle is over, by reading the notes of the general Staff, looking at the maps of the general staff. Yeah the generals in the battle may not have known many many things, which the enemy was doing. But you can criticize them, because they did not send scouts or did not react to the informations of their scouts. You can analyse their mistakes (and this is a fact!!!). You are allowed to do this, even if you the general you criticize is a field marshal and you are only a normal general. In SC it is the same. You can criticize the players after the game by watching the VoD or the replay. Even if you are not better.
On March 21 2009 23:28 niteReloaded wrote: Fanaticist and arb, so what, you are suggesting that if a person is inferior in something, they are not allowed to criticize and point out the flaws of a better player?
that's simply wrong.
no,Sure they can point what whats wrong with someone i dont even really care. What i do care about however is the OP posting this FOR THE PURPOSE of starting a fucking flame fest which he knew would fucking happen before he hit post.
Thats so stupid, people dont like Idra big fucking deal all of these scrubs saying he sucks dick when they will never be ab le to do anything near what he is doing is fucking stupid.
It's not stupid at all. He is supposed to be that good, according to himself. Not only does he not live up to his own hype. He acts like he's fucking five when he loses. Win or lose he should carry himself like the professional he is supposed to be.
People critisizing IdrA, when they cant _do_ it better, doesn't make them less knowledgeable about the fact that they _know_ what should have been done. Im not saying that everyone here knows better then IdrA, nor that he sucks. I'm just saying that people can critisize, even though they can't do it better themselves.
On March 21 2009 23:54 fanatacist wrote: Kicking in the balls is low as hell, meant for survival situations only. Fail analogy. Get off the computer and do some laps and get stronger then beat the bully. Or simply avoid them. So many better solutions.
My point is right, that yes Strelok went for the chessy opening (aka the cheap ball shot), but cheap ball shots are all part of strategy, look at flash's last game in WL, fantasy cheesed him and won the game, I'm not going debate in either pair if they where both equally matched, maybe Idra would have beaten Strelok in a straight up TvT, and maybe Strelok knew that he couldn't beat Idra straight up as well, so rather play to Idra's strengths he played the best chance he thought he had.
Its fairly much agreed that a maxed out terran army will beat a maxed toss right, so protoss isn't just going to A move his goons into sieged tanks and say, "oh well I lost", no he isn't, he is going to use stasis and recall to try give himself the edge.
Its the same for all cheesy play, the cheese is just an attempt to gain the upper hand with a variable risk, depending on what your doing, and its not like cheese is the insta-win key either, there are many top Koreans that are known for being uncheesable.
I partially agree with the rather common belief that Cheesy games aren't fun to watch, but for the players, its all about winning, and if a player thinks that he can gain the uphand/win the game by doing something cheesy, then so be it.
Idra is going to be a progamer cause he is trainning to win starleagues. only bad newbs can beat him cause hes playing to be topoftheline. Don't you guys see that
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
Than a theorizer for chess is not allowed to criticize a better player? He has the opportunity to watch the game again and again and he is able to see things, which the player didn't see during the game. A commentator for soccer is not allowed to criticize the play of a team?
You have no idea. What it means criticizing the gampeplay of somebody. If you watch the replay (or the VoD) you have a better idea of what is going on the battlefield, you are able to see things, which the player does not see. You have not to be the better player to criticize another players gameplay. You have only to have a good knowledge of the game.
So, you can criticize his play because you know things that he cannot possibly know during the game? My point exactly.
To extrapolate this concept, let's say a pro goes 13 nex on Andromeda which is pretty standard and scouts the wrong way. Zerg goes 4 pool and randomly guesses which way to attack. Protoss loses. You would be saying that you can criticize his play as being "too risky" because YOU knew what was going to happen. Sorry, but that critique is retarded and ignorant of the context and situation. That is basically what you're doing now.
Chess theorizing is different, since it is a strategy game with everything out in the open in front of you. There are absolute rights and wrongs because all the information you need is in front of you. A theorizer can say "this would be better..." etc. and it would be fact. You could say that about a SC game, and be a total dumbass because everything is NOT in the open and the player did NOT know the situation at hand to make that "perfect" decision. Hence metagame. Hence progamer's understanding of metagame being superior to ours. Hence, you are a scrub and IdrA is not, and you have no place to criticize the strategic aspects of the game beyond what IdrA claims to be his mistakes.
Ok. Not chess.
Than we take another example.
The war.
There are tons of books aobut historical battles, written by great generals, in which they analyse historical battles. The generals in the battles did not exactly know, what their enemy was doing (like in SC; you do not knwo what your enemy is doing).
But you can criticize their strategy after the battle is over, by reading the notes of the general Staff, looking at the maps of the general staff. Yeah the generals in the battle may not have known many many things, which the enemy was doing. But you can criticize them, because they did not send scouts or did not react to the informations of their scouts. You can analyse their mistakes (and this is a fact!!!). You are allowed to do this, even if you the general you criticize is a field marshal and you are only a normal general. In SC it is the same. You can criticize the players after the game by watching the VoD or the replay. Even if you are not better.
Like I said, you can criticize purely mechanical concepts because they are either right or wrong (most of the time). 95% of the time you can't criticize strategy, simply because you do not know enough about the metagame in the situation to do so. Of course there are glaring mistakes, rarely (at the pro-level), where you would be right and the action the pro made is wrong. Anything beyond what IdrA admits is most likely NOT the case. What you describe is one person making a blunder and someone else recognizing it. What is happening is people trash on his whole approach to the game, like saying "strategy x is better than strategy y," and that is just stupid to do with such certainty when dealing with higher level players. End of story.
On March 21 2009 23:54 fanatacist wrote: Kicking in the balls is low as hell, meant for survival situations only. Fail analogy. Get off the computer and do some laps and get stronger then beat the bully. Or simply avoid them. So many better solutions.
My point is right, that yes Strelok went for the chessy opening (aka the cheap ball shot), but cheap ball shots are all part of strategy, look at flash's last game in WL, fantasy cheesed him and won the game, I'm not going debate in either pair if they where both equally matched, maybe Idra would have beaten Strelok in a straight up TvT, and maybe Strelok knew that he couldn't beat Idra straight up as well, so rather play to Idra's strengths he played the best chance he thought he had.
Its fairly much agreed that a maxed out terran army will beat a maxed toss right, so protoss isn't just going to A move his goons into sieged tanks and say, "oh well I lost", no he isn't, he is going to use stasis and recall to try give himself the edge.
Its the same for all cheesy play, the cheese is just an attempt to gain the upper hand with a variable risk, depending on what your doing, and its not like cheese is the insta-win key either, there are many top Koreans that are known for being uncheesable.
I partially agree with the rather common belief that Cheesy games aren't fun to watch, but for the players, its all about winning, and if a player thinks that he can gain the uphand/win the game by doing something cheesy, then so be it.
Oh, I wasn't continuing your analogy at all. I am not defending the concept of cheesy play being gay and amoral. I was just saying that kicking someone in the nuts is gay as hell.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
Than a theorizer for chess is not allowed to criticize a better player? He has the opportunity to watch the game again and again and he is able to see things, which the player didn't see during the game. A commentator for soccer is not allowed to criticize the play of a team?
You have no idea. What it means criticizing the gampeplay of somebody. If you watch the replay (or the VoD) you have a better idea of what is going on the battlefield, you are able to see things, which the player does not see. You have not to be the better player to criticize another players gameplay. You have only to have a good knowledge of the game.
So, you can criticize his play because you know things that he cannot possibly know during the game? My point exactly.
To extrapolate this concept, let's say a pro goes 13 nex on Andromeda which is pretty standard and scouts the wrong way. Zerg goes 4 pool and randomly guesses which way to attack. Protoss loses. You would be saying that you can criticize his play as being "too risky" because YOU knew what was going to happen. Sorry, but that critique is retarded and ignorant of the context and situation. That is basically what you're doing now.
Chess theorizing is different, since it is a strategy game with everything out in the open in front of you. There are absolute rights and wrongs because all the information you need is in front of you. A theorizer can say "this would be better..." etc. and it would be fact. You could say that about a SC game, and be a total dumbass because everything is NOT in the open and the player did NOT know the situation at hand to make that "perfect" decision. Hence metagame. Hence progamer's understanding of metagame being superior to ours. Hence, you are a scrub and IdrA is not, and you have no place to criticize the strategic aspects of the game beyond what IdrA claims to be his mistakes.
Ok. Not chess.
Than we take another example.
The war.
There are tons of books aobut historical battles, written by great generals, in which they analyse historical battles. The generals in the battles did not exactly know, what their enemy was doing (like in SC; you do not knwo what your enemy is doing).
But you can criticize their strategy after the battle is over, by reading the notes of the general Staff, looking at the maps of the general staff. Yeah the generals in the battle may not have known many many things, which the enemy was doing. But you can criticize them, because they did not send scouts or did not react to the informations of their scouts. You can analyse their mistakes (and this is a fact!!!). You are allowed to do this, even if you the general you criticize is a field marshal and you are only a normal general. In SC it is the same. You can criticize the players after the game by watching the VoD or the replay. Even if you are not better.
Like I said, you can criticize purely mechanical concepts because they are either right or wrong (most of the time). 95% of the time you can't criticize strategy, simply because you do not know enough about the metagame in the situation to do so. Of course there are glaring mistakes, rarely (at the pro-level), where you would be right and the action the pro made is wrong. Anything beyond what IdrA admits is most likely NOT the case. What you describe is one person making a blunder and someone else recognizing it. What is happening is people trash on his whole approach to the game, like saying "strategy x is better than strategy y," and that is just stupid to do with such certainty when dealing with higher level players. End of story.
But it is totally wrong, if you say, that you are not allowed to criticize a player about his play.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
Than a theorizer for chess is not allowed to criticize a better player? He has the opportunity to watch the game again and again and he is able to see things, which the player didn't see during the game. A commentator for soccer is not allowed to criticize the play of a team?
You have no idea. What it means criticizing the gampeplay of somebody. If you watch the replay (or the VoD) you have a better idea of what is going on the battlefield, you are able to see things, which the player does not see. You have not to be the better player to criticize another players gameplay. You have only to have a good knowledge of the game.
So, you can criticize his play because you know things that he cannot possibly know during the game? My point exactly.
To extrapolate this concept, let's say a pro goes 13 nex on Andromeda which is pretty standard and scouts the wrong way. Zerg goes 4 pool and randomly guesses which way to attack. Protoss loses. You would be saying that you can criticize his play as being "too risky" because YOU knew what was going to happen. Sorry, but that critique is retarded and ignorant of the context and situation. That is basically what you're doing now.
Chess theorizing is different, since it is a strategy game with everything out in the open in front of you. There are absolute rights and wrongs because all the information you need is in front of you. A theorizer can say "this would be better..." etc. and it would be fact. You could say that about a SC game, and be a total dumbass because everything is NOT in the open and the player did NOT know the situation at hand to make that "perfect" decision. Hence metagame. Hence progamer's understanding of metagame being superior to ours. Hence, you are a scrub and IdrA is not, and you have no place to criticize the strategic aspects of the game beyond what IdrA claims to be his mistakes.
Ok. Not chess.
Than we take another example.
The war.
There are tons of books aobut historical battles, written by great generals, in which they analyse historical battles. The generals in the battles did not exactly know, what their enemy was doing (like in SC; you do not knwo what your enemy is doing).
But you can criticize their strategy after the battle is over, by reading the notes of the general Staff, looking at the maps of the general staff. Yeah the generals in the battle may not have known many many things, which the enemy was doing. But you can criticize them, because they did not send scouts or did not react to the informations of their scouts. You can analyse their mistakes (and this is a fact!!!). You are allowed to do this, even if you the general you criticize is a field marshal and you are only a normal general. In SC it is the same. You can criticize the players after the game by watching the VoD or the replay. Even if you are not better.
Like I said, you can criticize purely mechanical concepts because they are either right or wrong (most of the time). 95% of the time you can't criticize strategy, simply because you do not know enough about the metagame in the situation to do so. Of course there are glaring mistakes, rarely (at the pro-level), where you would be right and the action the pro made is wrong. Anything beyond what IdrA admits is most likely NOT the case. What you describe is one person making a blunder and someone else recognizing it. What is happening is people trash on his whole approach to the game, like saying "strategy x is better than strategy y," and that is just stupid to do with such certainty when dealing with higher level players. End of story.
But it is totally wrong, if you say, that you are not allowed to criticize a player about his play.
Like I said, you can criticize purely mechanical concepts because they are either right or wrong (most of the time). 95% of the time you can't criticize strategy, simply because you do not know enough about the metagame in the situation to do so. Of course there are glaring mistakes, rarely (at the pro-level), where you would be right and the action the pro made is wrong. Anything beyond what IdrA admits is most likely NOT the case. What you describe is one person making a blunder and someone else recognizing it. What is happening is people trash on his whole approach to the game, like saying "strategy x is better than strategy y," and that is just stupid to do with such certainty when dealing with higher level players. End of story.
On March 21 2009 22:55 shafiru wrote: Also, I love how some random TL scrubs are criticizing IdrA on his skill when he could roll them with their offraces.
Criticize the BM, and unless you don't suck ass compared to him, don't criticize the gameplay.
You are an idiot.
We can ciriticize the gameplay of better players. It has nothing to do, if we are better or not. A commentator for soccer can criticize the play of a team, even if he he can not play soccer himself very well. A theorizer for chess can ciriticize a game of chess of the best chess player, even if he would never win against him.
So you pretend to know every strategic possibility, counter, maneuver, and etc. just from watching reps and playing at whatever lower level you play? Please, don't come back to this thread because you will be flamed to oblivion for your ignorance.
You can't know the metagame IdrA was playing/seeing and the situational decisions IdrA had to make. Just like someone else, maybe IdrA, said before, the foreigner understanding of SC is so low compared to pro gamers. Similarly, your understanding of the game is so poor compared to IdrA's. Of course you could comment something like "mismicro here" or something, but knowing the what and why of the builds that either player took isn't your cup of tea. None of us commenting here are pro-level trained players like IdrA is. Hence, none of us can comment on the strategic nuances of the game beyond a guess or a shot in the dark, relative to his understanding. Anything you say is a GUESS, what IdrA admits about the game is more or less FACT. End of story.
I'm not going to defend his BM beyond saying that 95% of us do it at one point or another. You think that just because it's a match between Strelok and IdrA that he doesn't have the impulse to do the same? Not saying it's right, but it's not so cataclysmic as people are portraying it to be. I'm defending the concept that you know a minimal level of what happened in that game, and he knows it way better than you do.
Than a theorizer for chess is not allowed to criticize a better player? He has the opportunity to watch the game again and again and he is able to see things, which the player didn't see during the game. A commentator for soccer is not allowed to criticize the play of a team?
You have no idea. What it means criticizing the gampeplay of somebody. If you watch the replay (or the VoD) you have a better idea of what is going on the battlefield, you are able to see things, which the player does not see. You have not to be the better player to criticize another players gameplay. You have only to have a good knowledge of the game.
So, you can criticize his play because you know things that he cannot possibly know during the game? My point exactly.
To extrapolate this concept, let's say a pro goes 13 nex on Andromeda which is pretty standard and scouts the wrong way. Zerg goes 4 pool and randomly guesses which way to attack. Protoss loses. You would be saying that you can criticize his play as being "too risky" because YOU knew what was going to happen. Sorry, but that critique is retarded and ignorant of the context and situation. That is basically what you're doing now.
Chess theorizing is different, since it is a strategy game with everything out in the open in front of you. There are absolute rights and wrongs because all the information you need is in front of you. A theorizer can say "this would be better..." etc. and it would be fact. You could say that about a SC game, and be a total dumbass because everything is NOT in the open and the player did NOT know the situation at hand to make that "perfect" decision. Hence metagame. Hence progamer's understanding of metagame being superior to ours. Hence, you are a scrub and IdrA is not, and you have no place to criticize the strategic aspects of the game beyond what IdrA claims to be his mistakes.
Ok. Not chess.
Than we take another example.
The war.
There are tons of books aobut historical battles, written by great generals, in which they analyse historical battles. The generals in the battles did not exactly know, what their enemy was doing (like in SC; you do not knwo what your enemy is doing).
But you can criticize their strategy after the battle is over, by reading the notes of the general Staff, looking at the maps of the general staff. Yeah the generals in the battle may not have known many many things, which the enemy was doing. But you can criticize them, because they did not send scouts or did not react to the informations of their scouts. You can analyse their mistakes (and this is a fact!!!). You are allowed to do this, even if you the general you criticize is a field marshal and you are only a normal general. In SC it is the same. You can criticize the players after the game by watching the VoD or the replay. Even if you are not better.
Like I said, you can criticize purely mechanical concepts because they are either right or wrong (most of the time). 95% of the time you can't criticize strategy, simply because you do not know enough about the metagame in the situation to do so. Of course there are glaring mistakes, rarely (at the pro-level), where you would be right and the action the pro made is wrong. Anything beyond what IdrA admits is most likely NOT the case. What you describe is one person making a blunder and someone else recognizing it. What is happening is people trash on his whole approach to the game, like saying "strategy x is better than strategy y," and that is just stupid to do with such certainty when dealing with higher level players. End of story.
But it is totally wrong, if you say, that you are not allowed to criticize a player about his play.
Like I said, you can criticize purely mechanical concepts because they are either right or wrong (most of the time). 95% of the time you can't criticize strategy, simply because you do not know enough about the metagame in the situation to do so. Of course there are glaring mistakes, rarely (at the pro-level), where you would be right and the action the pro made is wrong. Anything beyond what IdrA admits is most likely NOT the case. What you describe is one person making a blunder and someone else recognizing it. What is happening is people trash on his whole approach to the game, like saying "strategy x is better than strategy y," and that is just stupid to do with such certainty when dealing with higher level players. End of story.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up, and it did after he blew units on that center attack, it let me siege his last expo at 3. it worked, just not quite well enough. most of his harass and attacks didnt do much and in the end he wasnt mining, i just lost too many units defending the drop at 6 to hold off his last ditch attack.
had i gone on the offensive he just woulda crushed it with superior unit count, especially given that i couldnt really afford dropships when i could barely afford units as is.
On March 21 2009 21:26 IdrA wrote: macro is my strength
I don't get this, everyone says it. Plexa and Chill preludes the liquibetion with talk about idras macro idra himself talks about his macro but seriously just take this game as an example: Look at the after game stats, idra produced way _less_ units than strelok while at the same time killing slightly _more_. Now of course he lost like all his scvs to wraiths but imo this is something that repeats itself throughout every idra game I have ever seen. Compared to other players about his level his micro is absolutely stellar while his macro seem to slip more often than not. Where does this talk about idra's macro come from really? The fact that he preferes defensive openings has nothing to do with how he choses to split his time between micro/macro in the midgame. I am probably missing something obvious though :p
Maybe because, for someone who spend 10 hours a day playing the game, IdrA is just horrible at decision making, doesn't even understand the concept of mind game (when he loses the mind game, he says his opponent did soemthing stupid), and have a mediocre micro. As he always go for extraordinarily safe, standart and defensive builds, and as he is finally a very good player compared to most foreigners (the 10 hours a day have to pay somewhere), everybody assume that his macro is amazing.
What makes me laugh is that IdrA always says afterward that his opponent is bad (or at best mediocre) when he loses. It may be a bit simplistic, but for me, someone who lose to bad players is bad himself.
On March 21 2009 10:23 Farm wrote: For the real fun of seeing IdrA's attitude-in-need-of-adjustment, scroll down to near the end (or Ctrl+F "Manner Bear"), although I certainly encourage you to read my report of the game first! Comments (about the report, although you can comment on IdrA too if you want, I won't ban you from my blog) are most welcome!
Hi guys! It's me again, although most of you probably don't remember me, I decided to write a battlereport of CJ_Idra vs 3D.Strelok. Note that this contains spoilers of Broodsport/Liquibition of Strelok vs F91. If you somehow have not seen those and do not want to be spoiled (then my congratulations to you for somehow avoiding it while still reading TL...), then do not read this.
Am I the only one who think this gets too much attention? Ok so the guy was BM after losing a game... Some people react that way. I dont see how it can create 11 pages of discussion.
I watched it too, and the reason that you had the colors as teal and red was cuz of shift tab tab lol... Strelok was orange and Idra was yellow for me.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up.
to sit and absorg his attacks, wait for a hole to open up and lose. (!?)
On March 21 2009 11:38 brad3104 wrote: Lol has Idra explained himself? or is he just hiding somewhere....I hope he fails in everything...constantly being BM is just annoying. Type GG and gtfo like a man.
whats to explain? i get pissed and say dumb shit when i lose. strelok was the bigger man and brushed it off and is punishing me by refusing to play me on iccup while you all are being a bunch of little drama queens. learn from him.
Spot on analysis here. We all know already that Idra is bm after losing, so why start the drama? It was a fun replay with text, but that´s about it.
My guess is a lot of good foreigners could train a year in korea and yet would not be better than Idra. Even while playing in a korean proteam Idra does not (yet) have the same quality of training as his fellow progamers, who can communicate much more thouroghly with each other . He lost a close game here in his worst matchup and his SCL-record looks good.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up.
to sit and absorg his attacks, wait for a hole to open up and lose. (!?)
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up.
to sit and absorg his attacks, wait for a hole to open up and lose. (!?)
I lie in wait, biding my time. Finally I see my opening, a lull in the action, with my progamer level hand speed, my mouse is released from my sweaty clutches, my middle finger depresses the return key as my hands find the homerow on my keyboard in one fluid motion, I release my assault on my opponent at over 120 wpm, "you skilless newbie faggot" appears on my opponents screen, my bony fingers deftlessly found their keys with the rapidity of a chickens beak pecking at morsels of corn. My opponents reactions are as if he was playing in a vat of molasses, I give him no quarter, no possible chance to come back from my game ending blow. Before his inferior mind can even process what has occurred and he can respond, the victory box appears on his screen, denying him any hopes of retaliation. The day is won. I lean back in my chair, crack my knuckles, and prepare myself for another day of doing laundry for the real pros.
On March 21 2009 23:54 fanatacist wrote: Kicking in the balls is low as hell, meant for survival situations only. Fail analogy. Get off the computer and do some laps and get stronger then beat the bully. Or simply avoid them. So many better solutions.
My point is right, that yes Strelok went for the chessy opening (aka the cheap ball shot), but cheap ball shots are all part of strategy, look at flash's last game in WL, fantasy cheesed him and won the game, I'm not going debate in either pair if they where both equally matched, maybe Idra would have beaten Strelok in a straight up TvT, and maybe Strelok knew that he couldn't beat Idra straight up as well, so rather play to Idra's strengths he played the best chance he thought he had.
Its fairly much agreed that a maxed out terran army will beat a maxed toss right, so protoss isn't just going to A move his goons into sieged tanks and say, "oh well I lost", no he isn't, he is going to use stasis and recall to try give himself the edge.
Its the same for all cheesy play, the cheese is just an attempt to gain the upper hand with a variable risk, depending on what your doing, and its not like cheese is the insta-win key either, there are many top Koreans that are known for being uncheesable.
I partially agree with the rather common belief that Cheesy games aren't fun to watch, but for the players, its all about winning, and if a player thinks that he can gain the uphand/win the game by doing something cheesy, then so be it.
Oh, I wasn't continuing your analogy at all. I am not defending the concept of cheesy play being gay and amoral. I was just saying that kicking someone in the nuts is gay as hell.
It is not a big deal, Idra just can't control his emotion well yet, he will grow out of it. People who take any opportunity to flame Idra are just as immature. Idra himself knows this as well, he just couldn't help his emotion outbrusts when his mood is bad. I'm sure everybody have had bad days like that. Strelok also understand this, as why he was not effected by the BM and just laugh it off.
And stop flaming Idra's play, everybody started flaming Idra after the beating he took from F91, just remember F91 almost took out stork in a best of 3 when stork was on top of his game, there is a huge gap in skill between F91 and Idra base on their achievement. There is no shame in losing to F91, you guys should praise him for taking 2 games from F91 instead.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up.
to sit and absorg his attacks, wait for a hole to open up and lose. (!?)
you're really smart
Yeah, I know. ^^
No, but seriously IdrA. You played bad. You had a huge advantage in the beginning and you allowed Strelok to come back. And in the end you lost really badly.
No offense. Strelok may was not even the better player, but you allowed him to come back and lost the game.
The reason I think its ok to critisize idra is because it seems every game vs any foreigner, he is always like "Theres no way they can win, the Koreans I play against are 3 years ahead of them, they are not good enough to even be in Korea like me" and stuff like that.. then he gets totally OWNED and says" omg you cheated, you didnt do the standard korea 3hatch muta" or something.. Everytime, like Strelok, didnt he say something like Strelok was a shitty terran.. and then he gets owned and says he got lucky (after being SO far ahead in the game and still lost in a MIRROR?)
That is why people should be allowed to critisize idra.. His mouth. People in proleagues who lose because of poor play, but keep their mouth shut, its hard to critisize them because even though we could tell what they did wrong in the game, at least they probably realize how they messed up also, and it was one of those under-pressure moments on TV, or they just aren't at the level of the Flash's and Bisus yet.. Idra, any sign of a loss and he just goes "OMG YOU CHEATED, THAT STRAT WAS FROM 3 YEARS AGO! NOT FAIR!", He never takes resposibility for his loss, which is why we can pick him apart. If he didnt talk shit, and lost to strelok and f91 and all these players, No one would care and they would just say GG, try better nexttime.
btw, Anyone else but me think it would be SUPER entertaining to see Idra vs FBH on a TV match, Idra getting owned and then FBH doing one of those epic celebration dances right in his face?? I think justice would be served then.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up.
to sit and absorg his attacks, wait for a hole to open up and lose. (!?)
you're really smart
Yeah, I know. ^^
No, but seriously IdrA. You played bad. You had a huge advantage in the beginning and you allowed Strelok to come back. And in the end you lost really badly.
No offense. Strelok may was not even the better player, but you allowed him to come back and lost the game.
the builds brought him back into it, his mines negated my tank/marines which made up for the 4-5 supply advantage of the failed 6 rax. i was the one who spent most of the game coming back. you'll notice i was down 20 supply and a base after i cleared his wraiths. it ended up equal supply and equal bases.
On March 22 2009 01:32 rei wrote: It is not a big deal, Idra just can't control his emotion well yet, he will grow out of it. People who take any opportunity to flame Idra are just as immature.
Lol this is just pure crap talk. If you get upset from losing you don't take your time to make up excuses and bad-mouthing your opponent before leaving, you swallow your anger and type gg and then press F10ESQ in a millisec. What idra is doing belongs in kindergarden, he is what 19-20+ years and hasn't learned to be A BIT mannered yet? I also get really pissed sometimes when I lose but instead of ruining my own (and my clans) image by badmannering I tend to scream FUCK in RL or close down starcraft, get some fresh air or win some money in poker. I don't think he will grow out if it, in fact I hope he doesn't grow out of it - then one day some guy in high office will get tired of him and send him home where he belongs in the US. Flaming flamers is not immature, it's like giving the finger to a mirror - you will get one back.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up.
to sit and absorg his attacks, wait for a hole to open up and lose. (!?)
you're really smart
Yeah, I know. ^^
No, but seriously IdrA. You played bad. You had a huge advantage in the beginning and you allowed Strelok to come back. And in the end you lost really badly.
No offense. Strelok may was not even the better player, but you allowed him to come back and lost the game.
the builds brought him back into it, his mines negated my tank/marines which made up for the 4-5 supply advantage of the failed 6 rax. i was the one who spent most of the game coming back. you'll notice i was down 20 supply and a base after i cleared his wraiths. it ended up equal supply and equal bases.
Yeah, but I noticed that you had a HUGE advantage in the beginning too.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up.
to sit and absorg his attacks, wait for a hole to open up and lose. (!?)
I lie in wait, biding my time. Finally I see my opening, a lull in the action, with my progamer level hand speed, my mouse is released from my sweaty clutches, my middle finger depresses the return key as my hands find the homerow on my keyboard in one fluid motion, I release my assault on my opponent at over 120 wpm, "you skilless newbie faggot" appears on my opponents screen, my bony fingers deftlessly found their keys with the rapidity of a chickens beak pecking at morsels of corn. My opponents reactions are as if he was playing in a vat of molasses, I give him no quarter, no possible chance to come back from my game ending blow. Before his inferior mind can even process what has occurred and he can respond, the victory box appears on his screen, denying him any hopes of retaliation. The day is won. I lean back in my chair, crack my knuckles, and prepare myself for another day of doing laundry for the real pros.
LOL although that was pretty funny, you're also a douche that no one gives a fuck about so that makes it even more funny.
On March 22 2009 01:39 Skyze wrote: The reason I think its ok to critisize idra is because it seems every game vs any foreigner, he is always like "Theres no way they can win, the Koreans I play against are 3 years ahead of them, they are not good enough to even be in Korea like me" and stuff like that.. then he gets totally OWNED and says" omg you cheated, you didnt do the standard korea 3hatch muta" or something.. Everytime, like Strelok, didnt he say something like Strelok was a shitty terran.. and then he gets owned and says he got lucky (after being SO far ahead in the game and still lost in a MIRROR?)
That is why people should be allowed to critisize idra.. His mouth. People in proleagues who lose because of poor play, but keep their mouth shut, its hard to critisize them because even though we could tell what they did wrong in the game, at least they probably realize how they messed up also, and it was one of those under-pressure moments on TV, or they just aren't at the level of the Flash's and Bisus yet.. Idra, any sign of a loss and he just goes "OMG YOU CHEATED, THAT STRAT WAS FROM 3 YEARS AGO! NOT FAIR!", He never takes resposibility for his loss, which is why we can pick him apart. If he didnt talk shit, and lost to strelok and f91 and all these players, No one would care and they would just say GG, try better nexttime.
btw, Anyone else but me think it would be SUPER entertaining to see Idra vs FBH on a TV match, Idra getting owned and then FBH doing one of those epic celebration dances right in his face?? I think justice would be served then.
Unfortunately his manner in the game has nothing to do with discussing his strategic/tactical choices, so basically what you're saying is "becuz he makes an excuse and says koreans r betr than foren pros, we can b dooshes to him LOL."
On March 22 2009 01:43 Boundz(DarKo) wrote: I don't think he will grow out if it, in fact I hope he doesn't grow out of it - then one day some guy in high office will get tired of him and send him home where he belongs in the US. Flaming flamers is not immature, it's like giving the finger to a mirror - you will get one back.
idra for anger management?
idra for psychiatric treatment?
Idra is not stupid, he's able to think logically when he's cool, those are evidences which suggest he will grow out of it. Flaming accomplishes nothing constructive(if you don't agree with that then we have nothing to discuss), I argue that flaming itself is an immature act that accomplish nothing constructive. Therefore Flaming flamer is just as immature as the flamer himself.
oh by the way Idra didn't give the finger to you, nor any other flamers, he gave it to Strelok, and strelok didn't give one back(mature). What is your excuses to give idra the finger(immature)?
A great player must show education when winning and losing. Everyone loves winning, and although losing sucks, it doesnt mean to be rude to your opponent, like it or not the way he might have played
On March 22 2009 01:59 rei wrote: What is your excuses to give idra the finger(immature)?
When he fingers Strelok, F91 or whoever it may be it does not only affect them but the entire community. Now if he is the only foregin "progamer" in korea wouldn't it be good if that person was respected within his own community and being a good mannered person ingame as well as outside? If he is so dumb he pretty much hands over our middlefingers to himself.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
Mclovin's excuse for not going into the liquor store the first time "but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless ASSFACE"
On March 22 2009 01:39 Skyze wrote: The reason I think its ok to critisize idra is because it seems every game vs any foreigner, he is always like "Theres no way they can win, the Koreans I play against are 3 years ahead of them, they are not good enough to even be in Korea like me" and stuff like that.. then he gets totally OWNED and says" omg you cheated, you didnt do the standard korea 3hatch muta" or something.. Everytime, like Strelok, didnt he say something like Strelok was a shitty terran.. and then he gets owned and says he got lucky (after being SO far ahead in the game and still lost in a MIRROR?)
That is why people should be allowed to critisize idra.. His mouth. People in proleagues who lose because of poor play, but keep their mouth shut, its hard to critisize them because even though we could tell what they did wrong in the game, at least they probably realize how they messed up also, and it was one of those under-pressure moments on TV, or they just aren't at the level of the Flash's and Bisus yet.. Idra, any sign of a loss and he just goes "OMG YOU CHEATED, THAT STRAT WAS FROM 3 YEARS AGO! NOT FAIR!", He never takes resposibility for his loss, which is why we can pick him apart. If he didnt talk shit, and lost to strelok and f91 and all these players, No one would care and they would just say GG, try better nexttime.
btw, Anyone else but me think it would be SUPER entertaining to see Idra vs FBH on a TV match, Idra getting owned and then FBH doing one of those epic celebration dances right in his face?? I think justice would be served then.
Unfortunately his manner in the game has nothing to do with discussing his strategic/tactical choices, so basically what you're saying is "becuz he makes an excuse and says koreans r betr than foren pros, we can b dooshes to him LOL."
Yes. Because he makes excuses and acts like an idiot, he deserves to get shit on. His lack of game-sense and overall lack of BW skill, is one thing, but we aren't picking on him for that, we are picking on him because of his bad manner. It just makes it more sweet that he gets so far ahead in a TvT, and STILL cant win vs "an inferior foreigner"..
I repeat, if this was someone like Nony or Strelok, who might not be as good as the Bisu's and Flash's that we watch everyday, so we can clearly see their mistakes when watching Nony/Strelok, we wouldnt talk about them in a bad sense because they are MANNERED and dont make excuses for their loss, but rather they learn from their losses and respect all opponents, even if they aren't in korea. Idra just badmouths everyone and thinks hes so superior due to living in Korea, yet he has never been able to beat any foreigner in any showmatch since living in Korea to back up his big mouth.
When he fingers Strelok, F91 or whoever it may be it does not only affect them but the entire community. Now if he is the only foregin "progamer" in korea wouldn't it be good if that person was respected within his own community and being a good mannered person ingame as well as outside? If he is so dumb he pretty much hands over our middlefingers to himself.
I totally agree with you that Idra should set an example of good manner, in which he will be able to better represent the foreigner community in Korea, as well as respect from this community that had been behind him the entire time. However, flaming will not help him mature faster.
On March 21 2009 21:18 niteReloaded wrote: wow idra is so bad it's astounding.
He, self-proclaimed better player, is the one who should be taking the initiative in the game, push strelok to the limits, ESPECIALLY after strelok was so behind in the begining.
Instead, he lays back, macroes and gives strelok time and room for initiative to make up for the loss in the beginning.
I'm impressed by how bad Idra is, both in attitude and in overall SC skill.
Lesson 1: If somebody is bad, and you don't know how to take advantage of that -- you are the bad one.
what are you babbling about i went 2 fac and moved to attack, mismicroed and lost the brunt of the attack to mines, his minefield meant i couldnt use my tank and the defender has an advantage in vulture vs vulture, so the proper decision was to sit on my econ advantage and wear him down in a macro game, especially given that macro is my strength and his weakness. i lost the game because i missed the obvious that he was going wraith, and was at a 1 base and 20something supply disadvantage for the rest of the game, and still brought it back to even. he wasnt mining on his last attack.
i deserve shit for flaming him, but seriously dont even try to talk about the game if you're that clueless.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
in most cases thats true, however here i was significantly behind and he had light harass openings all blocked off, and he was constantly attacking. this made it a better choice to sit and absorb his attacks and wait for a hole to open up, and it did after he blew units on that center attack, it let me siege his last expo at 3. it worked, just not quite well enough. most of his harass and attacks didnt do much and in the end he wasnt mining, i just lost too many units defending the drop at 6 to hold off his last ditch attack.
had i gone on the offensive he just woulda crushed it with superior unit count, especially given that i couldnt really afford dropships when i could barely afford units as is.
Yes, you were behind after being ahead. Let's not forget the guy had to cancel his ridiculously early proxy barracks.
Honestly, your factory after the second supply looked like a bit of hesitation. Neither black, nor white.
I wanna see Idra who decides to crush his opponent after seeing his early risk fail. The game was in your hands at that point.
If you were to play again, I wanna see you put that factory before the supply and follow up quickly with another one. Or a quick starport with wraith harass. Or put a CC right after he cancels the barracks and play defensively.
Put a fire under his ass and make him suffer every second for being behind in tech.
IMO, all you need Idra, is a small change of perspective to be much more successful. Put all the labels aside. Realize that game theory is just that - theory. Sometimes it seems you get lost in the labels and you can't play the game. Put all the 3hats, 2hats, FEs, Allin players, bad players.. put it aside and play the game.
Just go and win.
Also, that thing iloveoov once said "Start every game with a mindset to turn it into a rape."
On March 22 2009 01:32 rei wrote: It is not a big deal, Idra just can't control his emotion well yet, he will grow out of it. People who take any opportunity to flame Idra are just as immature.
Lol this is just pure crap talk. If you get upset from losing you don't take your time to make up excuses and bad-mouthing your opponent before leaving, you swallow your anger and type gg and then press F10ESQ in a millisec. What idra is doing belongs in kindergarden, he is what 19-20+ years and hasn't learned to be A BIT mannered yet? I also get really pissed sometimes when I lose but instead of ruining my own (and my clans) image by badmannering I tend to scream FUCK in RL or close down starcraft, get some fresh air or win some money in poker. I don't think he will grow out if it, in fact I hope he doesn't grow out of it - then one day some guy in high office will get tired of him and send him home where he belongs in the US. Flaming flamers is not immature, it's like giving the finger to a mirror - you will get one back.
idra for anger management?
idra for psychiatric treatment?
I'd like to remind you.
THIS IS THE INTERNET.
It doesn't mean that if he is playing in a lan, he will go and scream red faced to the front of the other guy if he loses or something.
Dont be pissed about Idra's attitude, we all know he is like that, i would be surprised if he suddenly starts being good manner, people should stop flaming him because this isnt new and flame wars dont contribute anything to anyone.
I think the reason people get so mad is because Idra is "our" (non koreans) sole representative in the pro starcraft scene over there. His behavior is embarrassing and disgraceful and it reflects poorly on CJ, and the foreign starcraft scene. It's like if Yao Ming came over and acted like a totally arrogant, insulting dickhead in the NBA then I'm sure the Chinese people would be outraged and who could blame them? It wouldn't kill Idra to have just a little humility and respect. He doesn't seem capable of it though.
I can't believe how silly all the "you can't critisize him because he's a better player than you are" people in this thread are. Just - sorry - dumb as fuck. It's basically common knowledge that the above is a very silly argument. It doesn't even need any further explanation. Yet still many people still use it.
I've seen ALL OF YOU critisize (real)pro-gamers once in a while. And those are waaayyy better than IdrA. Which btw. is a fact.(Just to add to all the talking about what's fact and what is not) Yet you want to prohibit people from critisizing IdrA's play? Wtf?
For the record: I haven't even watched the game, nor have I anaylized it. This post is solely about the argument itself, not if the individual analyses of IdrA's play/mistakes vs. Strelok were correct or not.
You guys do realize IdrA is completely owning the fuck out of you all in this thread right?
I've been on the IdrA flamewagons for w/e reason... it's old. Yeah he BMs. But it's like... why do people watch sports? Excitement. EVERY SPORT HAS A BMER. IdrA's like the T.O. of StarCraft.
When I said that people shouldn't criticize IdrA, I didn't mean you can never criticize him. I guess I worded that wrong.
Of course you can criticize somebody's play if you're a spectator. However, people in this thread were not only ignoring the main flaw IdrA had in this game (BM), and rather are criticizing the gameplay. It's totally fine to say, hey, he played like crap, isn't living up to the hype, etc.
I am very bad at TvT, but still I think the only initiative you did was that first attack where that mine hurt you. Then he did something, you defended and responded. Then he does something again, you respond.
The rest of the game, even when strelok was still behind, you gave him room to breathe and come up with some weird shit to hurt you.
If I had your skills, I would use solid but aggresive builds against all foreigners. If he's the one who reacts, he can't surprise you, because he has to match your attacks with proper defense and reactions.
Instead, from what I've seen of you, you tend to let people have the initiative and trust in your ability to outnumber them in the end. Kinda like in poker, you go to showdown too often. You need more aggression IMO, on every street.
PUSH THEM AROUND MAN!
Also, playing bad players has improved my understanding of poker much more than playing vs good players. If you know something is wrong or inferior, you need to be as clear as possible in your head as to what to do to take advantage of that.
I'm trying to help you, so I hope you find at least something useful from what I say, coz I indeed may be talking stuff you already know.
He's trying to help your TvT IdrA, heed his words!!!!!!!!!!!!, it's not as if you have Korean teammates or coaches that can give you advice or anything.
Again, IdrA is a bm shit, but you look like an idiot when you try to give him tips on his gameplay.
Do your coaches know you're this bad mannered? The only reason CJ houses a foreigner is for the free press since you have no chance of every contributing to their team in the proleagues or getting them large exposure by winning a solo league. That free press has turned into bad press. I'm really curious how they feel about the way you conduct yourself online because you represent the CJ Entus brand to the foreign community.
Idra should behave well, if he wants to stay in CJ. It's a Game Idra, a Game that you are not as good as NaDa or other Koreans. You will never be as good as them, if you don't change your character traits.
On March 22 2009 01:39 Skyze wrote: The reason I think its ok to critisize idra is because it seems every game vs any foreigner, he is always like "Theres no way they can win, the Koreans I play against are 3 years ahead of them, they are not good enough to even be in Korea like me" and stuff like that.. then he gets totally OWNED and says" omg you cheated, you didnt do the standard korea 3hatch muta" or something.. Everytime, like Strelok, didnt he say something like Strelok was a shitty terran.. and then he gets owned and says he got lucky (after being SO far ahead in the game and still lost in a MIRROR?)
That is why people should be allowed to critisize idra.. His mouth. People in proleagues who lose because of poor play, but keep their mouth shut, its hard to critisize them because even though we could tell what they did wrong in the game, at least they probably realize how they messed up also, and it was one of those under-pressure moments on TV, or they just aren't at the level of the Flash's and Bisus yet.. Idra, any sign of a loss and he just goes "OMG YOU CHEATED, THAT STRAT WAS FROM 3 YEARS AGO! NOT FAIR!", He never takes resposibility for his loss, which is why we can pick him apart. If he didnt talk shit, and lost to strelok and f91 and all these players, No one would care and they would just say GG, try better nexttime.
btw, Anyone else but me think it would be SUPER entertaining to see Idra vs FBH on a TV match, Idra getting owned and then FBH doing one of those epic celebration dances right in his face?? I think justice would be served then.
Unfortunately his manner in the game has nothing to do with discussing his strategic/tactical choices, so basically what you're saying is "becuz he makes an excuse and says koreans r betr than foren pros, we can b dooshes to him LOL."
Yes. Because he makes excuses and acts like an idiot, he deserves to get shit on. His lack of game-sense and overall lack of BW skill, is one thing, but we aren't picking on him for that, we are picking on him because of his bad manner. It just makes it more sweet that he gets so far ahead in a TvT, and STILL cant win vs "an inferior foreigner"..
I repeat, if this was someone like Nony or Strelok, who might not be as good as the Bisu's and Flash's that we watch everyday, so we can clearly see their mistakes when watching Nony/Strelok, we wouldnt talk about them in a bad sense because they are MANNERED and dont make excuses for their loss, but rather they learn from their losses and respect all opponents, even if they aren't in korea. Idra just badmouths everyone and thinks hes so superior due to living in Korea, yet he has never been able to beat any foreigner in any showmatch since living in Korea to back up his big mouth.
When you typed that did you read the fucking thread first?
Or miss the school of idiots who say he is terrible?
On March 22 2009 01:39 Skyze wrote: The reason I think its ok to critisize idra is because it seems every game vs any foreigner, he is always like "Theres no way they can win, the Koreans I play against are 3 years ahead of them, they are not good enough to even be in Korea like me" and stuff like that.. then he gets totally OWNED and says" omg you cheated, you didnt do the standard korea 3hatch muta" or something.. Everytime, like Strelok, didnt he say something like Strelok was a shitty terran.. and then he gets owned and says he got lucky (after being SO far ahead in the game and still lost in a MIRROR?)
That is why people should be allowed to critisize idra.. His mouth. People in proleagues who lose because of poor play, but keep their mouth shut, its hard to critisize them because even though we could tell what they did wrong in the game, at least they probably realize how they messed up also, and it was one of those under-pressure moments on TV, or they just aren't at the level of the Flash's and Bisus yet.. Idra, any sign of a loss and he just goes "OMG YOU CHEATED, THAT STRAT WAS FROM 3 YEARS AGO! NOT FAIR!", He never takes resposibility for his loss, which is why we can pick him apart. If he didnt talk shit, and lost to strelok and f91 and all these players, No one would care and they would just say GG, try better nexttime.
btw, Anyone else but me think it would be SUPER entertaining to see Idra vs FBH on a TV match, Idra getting owned and then FBH doing one of those epic celebration dances right in his face?? I think justice would be served then.
Unfortunately his manner in the game has nothing to do with discussing his strategic/tactical choices, so basically what you're saying is "becuz he makes an excuse and says koreans r betr than foren pros, we can b dooshes to him LOL."
Yes. Because he makes excuses and acts like an idiot, he deserves to get shit on. His lack of game-sense and overall lack of BW skill, is one thing, but we aren't picking on him for that, we are picking on him because of his bad manner. It just makes it more sweet that he gets so far ahead in a TvT, and STILL cant win vs "an inferior foreigner"..
I repeat, if this was someone like Nony or Strelok, who might not be as good as the Bisu's and Flash's that we watch everyday, so we can clearly see their mistakes when watching Nony/Strelok, we wouldnt talk about them in a bad sense because they are MANNERED and dont make excuses for their loss, but rather they learn from their losses and respect all opponents, even if they aren't in korea. Idra just badmouths everyone and thinks hes so superior due to living in Korea, yet he has never been able to beat any foreigner in any showmatch since living in Korea to back up his big mouth.
When you typed that did you read the fucking thread first?
Or miss the school of idiots who say he is terrible?
For a foreigner he is good but for a pro he is meh at best. sucks. I don't really hate him ( although i always enjoy his losses because he goes mad ) and sometimes he even makes me laugh but i will also laugh a lot if he is kicked out of the team because of lack of skill / bad manners. :D
Who cares. It's funny and worth a laugh while talking to your buddies on iccup but not worth this huge thread ripping on him. He was a dick and Strelok handled the situation perfectly by refusing to play him anymore. If more players end up doing the same then he will correct his behavior. You are doing nothing by bitching on the forums about it because players that are good don't really care what their pseudo forum fans think all of the time no matter how much the fanboys here would like to think they do.
On March 22 2009 01:32 rei wrote: It is not a big deal, Idra just can't control his emotion well yet, he will grow out of it. People who take any opportunity to flame Idra are just as immature. Idra himself knows this as well, he just couldn't help his emotion outbrusts when his mood is bad. I'm sure everybody have had bad days like that. Strelok also understand this, as why he was not effected by the BM and just laugh it off.
And stop flaming Idra's play, everybody started flaming Idra after the beating he took from F91, just remember F91 almost took out stork in a best of 3 when stork was on top of his game, there is a huge gap in skill between F91 and Idra base on their achievement. There is no shame in losing to F91, you guys should praise him for taking 2 games from F91 instead.
On March 22 2009 01:32 rei wrote: It is not a big deal, Idra just can't control his emotion well yet, he will grow out of it. People who take any opportunity to flame Idra are just as immature. Idra himself knows this as well, he just couldn't help his emotion outbrusts when his mood is bad. I'm sure everybody have had bad days like that. Strelok also understand this, as why he was not effected by the BM and just laugh it off.
And stop flaming Idra's play, everybody started flaming Idra after the beating he took from F91, just remember F91 almost took out stork in a best of 3 when stork was on top of his game, there is a huge gap in skill between F91 and Idra base on their achievement. There is no shame in losing to F91, you guys should praise him for taking 2 games from F91 instead.
IdrA is 19 (20?) not 5 -_-
Have you heard of 'Emotional IQ' before
It is quite possible he is pre-pubescent in that regard.
On March 22 2009 01:39 Skyze wrote: The reason I think its ok to critisize idra is because it seems every game vs any foreigner, he is always like "Theres no way they can win, the Koreans I play against are 3 years ahead of them, they are not good enough to even be in Korea like me" and stuff like that.. then he gets totally OWNED and says" omg you cheated, you didnt do the standard korea 3hatch muta" or something.. Everytime, like Strelok, didnt he say something like Strelok was a shitty terran.. and then he gets owned and says he got lucky (after being SO far ahead in the game and still lost in a MIRROR?)
That is why people should be allowed to critisize idra.. His mouth. People in proleagues who lose because of poor play, but keep their mouth shut, its hard to critisize them because even though we could tell what they did wrong in the game, at least they probably realize how they messed up also, and it was one of those under-pressure moments on TV, or they just aren't at the level of the Flash's and Bisus yet.. Idra, any sign of a loss and he just goes "OMG YOU CHEATED, THAT STRAT WAS FROM 3 YEARS AGO! NOT FAIR!", He never takes resposibility for his loss, which is why we can pick him apart. If he didnt talk shit, and lost to strelok and f91 and all these players, No one would care and they would just say GG, try better nexttime.
btw, Anyone else but me think it would be SUPER entertaining to see Idra vs FBH on a TV match, Idra getting owned and then FBH doing one of those epic celebration dances right in his face?? I think justice would be served then.
Unfortunately his manner in the game has nothing to do with discussing his strategic/tactical choices, so basically what you're saying is "becuz he makes an excuse and says koreans r betr than foren pros, we can b dooshes to him LOL."
Yes. Because he makes excuses and acts like an idiot, he deserves to get shit on. His lack of game-sense and overall lack of BW skill, is one thing, but we aren't picking on him for that, we are picking on him because of his bad manner. It just makes it more sweet that he gets so far ahead in a TvT, and STILL cant win vs "an inferior foreigner"..
I repeat, if this was someone like Nony or Strelok, who might not be as good as the Bisu's and Flash's that we watch everyday, so we can clearly see their mistakes when watching Nony/Strelok, we wouldnt talk about them in a bad sense because they are MANNERED and dont make excuses for their loss, but rather they learn from their losses and respect all opponents, even if they aren't in korea. Idra just badmouths everyone and thinks hes so superior due to living in Korea, yet he has never been able to beat any foreigner in any showmatch since living in Korea to back up his big mouth.
You see differences in play because you see completely different situations. Just because you see one thing happening doesn't mean you understand why or how the player is doing it, so you could be blatantly wrong in your belief because you are applying half-assed concepts to an unrelated game.
Also your vicarious eye-for-an-eye morality is juvenile at best.
Everyone agrees that Idra is a bm bitch who can't take a loss, and reacts very badly to one...but I mean...then there are two camps that are arguing against each other:
The one side that can't stand him for it, and the other that thinks it's funny and amusing and adds drama to the scene.
I think his bm has gotten to an absurd level where I can't help but laugh it off...after all, it's not like I'm ever going to play him, so it hardly affects me personally. While it's disappointing, I think ppl spouting off and flaming really just need to get over it.
Expectations are high because he's the only active foreigner in Korea, and the only one with a progaming license, but still...after a certain point, it's just better not to care.
On March 22 2009 04:12 Mooncat wrote: I can't believe how silly all the "you can't critisize him because he's a better player than you are" people in this thread are. Just - sorry - dumb as fuck. It's basically common knowledge that the above is a very silly argument. It doesn't even need any further explanation. Yet still many people still use it.
I've seen ALL OF YOU critisize (real)pro-gamers once in a while. And those are waaayyy better than IdrA. Which btw. is a fact.(Just to add to all the talking about what's fact and what is not) Yet you want to prohibit people from critisizing IdrA's play? Wtf?
For the record: I haven't even watched the game, nor have I anaylized it. This post is solely about the argument itself, not if the individual analyses of IdrA's play/mistakes vs. Strelok were correct or not.
The argument is that your inferior understanding of the game makes most critiques you have meaningless to a player of a greater caliber, in THIS game. Other games/sports, there are exceptions.
On March 22 2009 05:57 Moff wrote: Who cares if he swore on the internet, oh noes!
That's pretty weak. Idra is a professional StarCraft player. It's his job. You don't act like a douche while performing your job especially not in public for all to see. The nature of his job is that he's a representative for the brand CJ so it's even more important he not act like a jackass because it reflects badly on them.
On March 22 2009 04:12 Mooncat wrote: I can't believe how silly all the "you can't critisize him because he's a better player than you are" people in this thread are. Just - sorry - dumb as fuck. It's basically common knowledge that the above is a very silly argument. It doesn't even need any further explanation. Yet still many people still use it.
I've seen ALL OF YOU critisize (real)pro-gamers once in a while. And those are waaayyy better than IdrA. Which btw. is a fact.(Just to add to all the talking about what's fact and what is not) Yet you want to prohibit people from critisizing IdrA's play? Wtf?
For the record: I haven't even watched the game, nor have I anaylized it. This post is solely about the argument itself, not if the individual analyses of IdrA's play/mistakes vs. Strelok were correct or not.
The argument is that your inferior understanding of the game makes most critiques you have meaningless to a player of a greater caliber, in THIS game. Other games/sports, there are exceptions.
See what I boldfaced, it means there are some exceptions. It is possible to see a mistake even if you would have made the mistake yourself, and criticize the person for it in a game like starcraft. Like just recently Bisu vs. Fantasy on RotK there was a wraith that was supposed to defend the Reaver harras but Fantasy didn't use it. Are you saying a n00b like me can't say "that was stupid Fantasy should have used that wraith." (Note: the wraith wasn't doing anything either so it was defiantly a mistake). I couldn't have defended as well as fantasy did, but that doesn't invalidate my criticism. I think you confuse criticize with insult, one is a comment the other is a put down.
On March 22 2009 05:57 Moff wrote: Who cares if he swore on the internet, oh noes!
That's pretty weak. Idra is a professional StarCraft player. It's his job. You don't act like a douche while performing your job especially not in public for all to see. The nature of his job is that he's a representative for the brand CJ so it's even more important he not act like a jackass because it reflects badly on them.
Let's ignore the fact that to read the comments you have to know English, and go on this English website, and that to buy CJ merchandise you most likely have to live in Korea:
Husband: Honey, let's buy some of this rice. Wife: No way! Husband: Why not? Wife: That's CJ brand rice! Some guy on their Entus team in StarCraftz got mad for losing a game, so he cursed at the other guy! Husband: But we all do it from time to time, what's the big deal? Wife: Well, obviously, since he is a public figure, his performance/behavior reflect the company's reputation, so their products must also be bad! Even I'm smart enough to know that his urchin antics have no effect whatsoever on the actual product itself, however.
^ I would kill myself if things actually worked like this in the proscene.
On March 22 2009 04:12 Mooncat wrote: I can't believe how silly all the "you can't critisize him because he's a better player than you are" people in this thread are. Just - sorry - dumb as fuck. It's basically common knowledge that the above is a very silly argument. It doesn't even need any further explanation. Yet still many people still use it.
I've seen ALL OF YOU critisize (real)pro-gamers once in a while. And those are waaayyy better than IdrA. Which btw. is a fact.(Just to add to all the talking about what's fact and what is not) Yet you want to prohibit people from critisizing IdrA's play? Wtf?
For the record: I haven't even watched the game, nor have I anaylized it. This post is solely about the argument itself, not if the individual analyses of IdrA's play/mistakes vs. Strelok were correct or not.
The argument is that your inferior understanding of the game makes most critiques you have meaningless to a player of a greater caliber, in THIS game. Other games/sports, there are exceptions.
See what I boldfaced, it means there are some exceptions. It is possible to see a mistake even if you would have made the mistake yourself, and criticize the person for it in a game like starcraft. Like just recently Bisu vs. Fantasy on RotK there was a wraith that was supposed to defend the Reaver harras but Fantasy didn't use it. Are you saying a n00b like me can't say "that was stupid Fantasy should have used that wraith." (Note: the wraith wasn't doing anything either so it was defiantly a mistake). I couldn't have defended as well as fantasy did, but that doesn't invalidate my criticism. I think you confuse criticize with insult, one is a comment the other is a put down.
Okay, now read this again:
"your inferior understanding of the game makes most critiques you have meaningless to a player of a greater caliber"
What criticism have you just made that is of any benefit to anyone? You just said that the sky is blue and that shit smells like shit. Congratulations, you pointed out an evident flaw in a player far superior to you, thus making you look like a nitpicking ass.
I don't see how anyone can defend this kid if they have an inkling of respect for E-sports in general.
He is the model of the 'kid who spent his life in a basement' image that people who play games have been trying to shrug off for 2 decades now. Pure gaming poison.
who knows, maybe i'm wrong about all this, maybe Idra is mature, which require another hypothesis to explain his behavior.
1.Let's suppose Idra is able to think and make logical decisions. 2.then logically he has to recognize his own hot temper, and big mouth. (1) 3. if can recognize his weakness, logically he can avoid scenarios in which he exposes these weaknesses. (example: train himself to stop opening mouth when enraged)(both 1,2) 4. he does not attempt to hide his weaknesses(bad manner) (fact) 5. which means that he is intentionally Bad mannering everyone he plays, since he is logically making the decision to be BM.(3 and 4) 6 Which means Idra's true intension is to alienate the foreign community and everybody that is not within his CJ team, and he does not care about what the foreign community thinks. (5)
Is Idra immature or is he trying to alienate everybody? since he kept posting on teamliquid means he wants attention from teamliquid community, which also means he want acceptance from the foreigner community. Therefore in my opinion the theory of an immature idra is more logical than the theory of I don't give a shit about foreigner community
On March 22 2009 04:12 Mooncat wrote: I can't believe how silly all the "you can't critisize him because he's a better player than you are" people in this thread are. Just - sorry - dumb as fuck. It's basically common knowledge that the above is a very silly argument. It doesn't even need any further explanation. Yet still many people still use it.
I've seen ALL OF YOU critisize (real)pro-gamers once in a while. And those are waaayyy better than IdrA. Which btw. is a fact.(Just to add to all the talking about what's fact and what is not) Yet you want to prohibit people from critisizing IdrA's play? Wtf?
For the record: I haven't even watched the game, nor have I anaylized it. This post is solely about the argument itself, not if the individual analyses of IdrA's play/mistakes vs. Strelok were correct or not.
The argument is that your inferior understanding of the game makes most critiques you have meaningless to a player of a greater caliber, in THIS game. Other games/sports, there are exceptions.
But that's wrong too. Just because someone is worse at playing it doesn't necessarily mean his understanding of the game is inferior. Otherwise you could fire most korean starcraft commentators. There's more to playing Starcraft than just an understanding of the game. APM, Reflexes, Multi-Tasking, on the spot thinking, management, control, etc. You name it.
I'd argue that e.g. a lot of the teamliquid staff have an understanding of the game equal to a korean progamer even if they don't play as well as one.
On March 22 2009 08:23 SkepTicAL wrote: Chris Brown beats Rihanna <--- Exposed Billy bob beats his wife with no teeth <----- no one cares
Idra flames Strelok <---- Exposed newby8797 flames shuffler2826262 <--- no one cares
Move on people :\. happens all the time, idra isn't the only idiot that does shit like that.
Yeah because it's totally the same thing when someone who is supposed to be a professional can't behave like one, as when a random 14 year old gets out of line in a bnet game?
On March 22 2009 08:23 SkepTicAL wrote: Chris Brown beats Rihanna <--- Exposed Billy bob beats his wife with no teeth <----- no one cares
Idra flames Strelok <---- Exposed newby8797 flames shuffler2826262 <--- no one cares
Move on people :\. happens all the time, idra isn't the only idiot that does shit like that.
Yeah because it's totally the same thing when someone who is supposed to be a professional can't behave like one, as when a random 14 year old gets out of line in a bnet game?
Can't you just close this thread?
Not like this thread is going anywhere positive. :/
On March 22 2009 08:23 SkepTicAL wrote: Chris Brown beats Rihanna <--- Exposed Billy bob beats his wife with no teeth <----- no one cares
Idra flames Strelok <---- Exposed newby8797 flames shuffler2826262 <--- no one cares
Move on people :\. happens all the time, idra isn't the only idiot that does shit like that.
Yeah because it's totally the same thing when someone who is supposed to be a professional can't behave like one, as when a random 14 year old gets out of line in a bnet game?
Can't you just close this thread?
Not like this thread is going anywhere positive. :/
doesn't anyone want to talk about Strelok's sneaky dropships? or Idra's intuition to spot a proxy rax?
I especially liked how strelok set up his siege tanks behind Idra's natural and then blocked them in with the rax he floated over. i thought it was mui sexy. i don't remember the last time i've seen a game that lasted that long where one player wasn't able to move out to his expo.
But you don't need mental maturity in order to know that being manner when you lose = good.
I think there is a different between knowing and was told what manner is.
When a person was told to be good manner by parents for example, they have to obey, they might never consider why being manner is important, unless the parents explain it. which means if no one is holding him accountable for his bad manner actions, he can choose to be bad mannered, and condescending. (CJ Coach is holding him accountable that's why he's good mannered in real life prehaps? i'm just makign wild guesses )
When a person understands the necessity, and the reason why they need to be good mannered toward another human being, they have thought about the consequences of all the bad mannered actions vs the good mannered actions. Which in terms demonstrates a certain levels of critical thinking ability.
I have seen the game (i was lucky enough to downlaod it from gosu before it got pulled) and i will say i think its a really really really really great game.
Why are people so emo about him? It's not like he hurt anyone. His BM isn't even justified, that makes it even more ignorable. Chill the fock out people. Is it because he's practicing at CJ's and wearing the uniform? Is it because when people picture them selfs there playing as a pro they would act all humble and most honored by this status?
He's just on practice partner level. He's one-of-the-guys-you-wouldn't-even-know-if-he-wasn't-white. He's the player-in-the-"other"-part-of-the-team. Standing in the outer outer outer ring of the progaming universe. All this "one of the best foreigners" is totally irrelevant. Where he is now only one thing matters: Results. Stone cold fuck a fiver in a river results.
That's why he can bm all the fuck he wants. Start disc-leaving...hell i would if i was practicing my ass of and then loose to some guy who's not even remotely close to the progaming circle.
I'm sure he knows. Discussions around his person keep growing and growing on our side while he stays insignificant as a player on the korean side. That's the fate of the third tier players. Simply being there wont cut it. And that's why i think noone should be upset over such trivia, because it's just noise.
On March 22 2009 10:27 kefkalives wrote: I have seen the game (i was lucky enough to downlaod it from gosu before it got pulled) and i will say i think its a really really really really great game.
On March 22 2009 07:21 L wrote: I don't see how anyone can defend this kid if they have an inkling of respect for E-sports in general.
He is the model of the 'kid who spent his life in a basement' image that people who play games have been trying to shrug off for 2 decades now. Pure gaming poison.
This.
There is a reason why you can't BM onstage in a professional korean match: The Sponsors. No company in their right mind would finance this sport after seeing an IdrA vs [insert opponent here] replay. With StarCraft II just around the corner, there will be a new environment for esports to thrive. No one is going to take the StarCraft community seriously if we are "okay" with this behavior. I think there should be some very basic ground rules set for these big foreigner matches.
Besides the fact that its sad, I don't think it should be tolerated by fans and especially not by the big name community sites such as Team Liquid.
I think Im the reason Idra quit zerg. This one game on R-Point I played him (my old nickname Corbalt) used ranged goons to my adv, he got SO MAD and next day played Terran. That guy is hilarious. Reminds me of good times back with other BM Newbs like NTT. People who berate you for defeating them. So funny when the angry guy loses. But in all seriousness, Idra must be good to win 2 games off F91. Much respect to both players. GJ great battle report.
On March 22 2009 07:21 L wrote: I don't see how anyone can defend this kid if they have an inkling of respect for E-sports in general.
He is the model of the 'kid who spent his life in a basement' image that people who play games have been trying to shrug off for 2 decades now. Pure gaming poison.
This.
There is a reason why you can't BM onstage in a professional korean match: The Sponsors. No company in their right mind would finance this sport after seeing an IdrA vs [insert opponent here] replay. With StarCraft II just around the corner, there will be a new environment for esports to thrive. No one is going to take the StarCraft community seriously if we are "okay" with this behavior. I think there should be some very basic ground rules set for these big foreigner matches.
Besides the fact that its sad, I don't think it should be tolerated by fans and especially not by the big name community sites such as Team Liquid.
To be fair with the sports analogy, plays like Terrell Owens and other infamous trouble makers do exist, its part of the sport, not everyone is gonna be the well mannered Tim Duncan/David Robinson.
All in all Id say that outburst was pretty funny, Im sure strelok was probably laughing his ass off. Replay with text is too good.
On March 22 2009 07:53 rei wrote: who knows, maybe i'm wrong about all this, maybe Idra is mature, which require another hypothesis to explain his behavior.
1.Let's suppose Idra is able to think and make logical decisions. 2.then logically he has to recognize his own hot temper, and big mouth. (1) 3. if can recognize his weakness, logically he can avoid scenarios in which he exposes these weaknesses. (example: train himself to stop opening mouth when enraged)(both 1,2) 4. he does not attempt to hide his weaknesses(bad manner) (fact) 5. which means that he is intentionally Bad mannering everyone he plays, since he is logically making the decision to be BM.(3 and 4) 6 Which means Idra's true intension is to alienate the foreign community and everybody that is not within his CJ team, and he does not care about what the foreign community thinks. (5)
Is Idra immature or is he trying to alienate everybody? since he kept posting on teamliquid means he wants attention from teamliquid community, which also means he want acceptance from the foreigner community. Therefore in my opinion the theory of an immature idra is more logical than the theory of I don't give a shit about foreigner community
To be fair with the sports analogy, plays like Terrell Owens and other infamous trouble makers do exist, its part of the sport, not everyone is gonna be the well mannered Tim Duncan/David Robinson.
All in all Id say that outburst was pretty funny, Im sure strelok was probably laughing his ass off. Replay with text is too good.
There's a difference between projecting an image in an established and thriving sport and trying to develop respect for one that is fledgling and lacks both sponsorship and branding.
And no, it wasn't a one time outburst, or some chance event. This is just the latest in a series of similar events.
Biggest dickhead in SC, going nowhere fast. Just look at the interview he did with Artosis when he moved from eSTRO to CJ and you can see he's just as, if not even more of a tool in person.
On March 22 2009 08:23 SkepTicAL wrote: Chris Brown beats Rihanna <--- Exposed Billy bob beats his wife with no teeth <----- no one cares
Idra flames Strelok <---- Exposed newby8797 flames shuffler2826262 <--- no one cares
Move on people :\. happens all the time, idra isn't the only idiot that does shit like that.
Yeah because it's totally the same thing when someone who is supposed to be a professional can't behave like one, as when a random 14 year old gets out of line in a bnet game?
On March 22 2009 13:02 theKnife wrote: Honestly IdrA, just kill yourself.
Biggest dickhead in SC, going nowhere fast. Just look at the interview he did with Artosis when he moved from eSTRO to CJ and you can see he's just as, if not even more of a tool in person.
On March 22 2009 13:02 theKnife wrote: Honestly IdrA, just kill yourself.
Biggest dickhead in SC, going nowhere fast. Just look at the interview he did with Artosis when he moved from eSTRO to CJ and you can see he's just as, if not even more of a tool in person.
On March 22 2009 12:17 fast ball player wrote: I think Im the reason Idra quit zerg. This one game on R-Point I played him (my old nickname Corbalt) used ranged goons to my adv, he got SO MAD and next day played Terran. That guy is hilarious. Reminds me of good times back with other BM Newbs like NTT. People who berate you for defeating them. So funny when the angry guy loses. But in all seriousness, Idra must be good to win 2 games off F91. Much respect to both players. GJ great battle report.
i switched back and forth between zvp and tvp all the time back when i was in tmg/ig
On March 22 2009 07:53 rei wrote: who knows, maybe i'm wrong about all this, maybe Idra is mature, which require another hypothesis to explain his behavior.
1.Let's suppose Idra is able to think and make logical decisions. 2.then logically he has to recognize his own hot temper, and big mouth. (1) 3. if can recognize his weakness, logically he can avoid scenarios in which he exposes these weaknesses. (example: train himself to stop opening mouth when enraged)(both 1,2) 4. he does not attempt to hide his weaknesses(bad manner) (fact) 5. which means that he is intentionally Bad mannering everyone he plays, since he is logically making the decision to be BM.(3 and 4) 6 Which means Idra's true intension is to alienate the foreign community and everybody that is not within his CJ team, and he does not care about what the foreign community thinks. (5)
Is Idra immature or is he trying to alienate everybody? since he kept posting on teamliquid means he wants attention from teamliquid community, which also means he want acceptance from the foreigner community. Therefore in my opinion the theory of an immature idra is more logical than the theory of I don't give a shit about foreigner community
On March 22 2009 12:17 fast ball player wrote: I think Im the reason Idra quit zerg. This one game on R-Point I played him (my old nickname Corbalt) used ranged goons to my adv, he got SO MAD and next day played Terran. That guy is hilarious. Reminds me of good times back with other BM Newbs like NTT. People who berate you for defeating them. So funny when the angry guy loses. But in all seriousness, Idra must be good to win 2 games off F91. Much respect to both players. GJ great battle report.
i switched back and forth between zvp and tvp all the time back when i was in tmg/ig
Corbalt:
NTT? Newbie? =/ come on now kid.. thats just pure stupidity. NTT was BM versus random newbies. Your probrably one of the kids who begged to obs his games back when replays werent capable, yet you were probrably banned each time =)
Ultimately, saying NTT was a BM newbie obviously explains reasonably that you are clueless. Hence he was one of the best foreigners in his prime, and beat almost every pro, semi-pro, and amateur in his time.
On March 22 2009 13:02 theKnife wrote: Honestly IdrA, just kill yourself.
Biggest dickhead in SC, going nowhere fast. Just look at the interview he did with Artosis when he moved from eSTRO to CJ and you can see he's just as, if not even more of a tool in person.
why would idra kill himself? Becouse he is bm in internet? If so, can't you see the irony?
On March 22 2009 07:53 rei wrote: who knows, maybe i'm wrong about all this, maybe Idra is mature, which require another hypothesis to explain his behavior.
1.Let's suppose Idra is able to think and make logical decisions. 2.then logically he has to recognize his own hot temper, and big mouth. (1) 3. if can recognize his weakness, logically he can avoid scenarios in which he exposes these weaknesses. (example: train himself to stop opening mouth when enraged)(both 1,2) 4. he does not attempt to hide his weaknesses(bad manner) (fact) 5. which means that he is intentionally Bad mannering everyone he plays, since he is logically making the decision to be BM.(3 and 4) 6 Which means Idra's true intension is to alienate the foreign community and everybody that is not within his CJ team, and he does not care about what the foreign community thinks. (5)
Is Idra immature or is he trying to alienate everybody? since he kept posting on teamliquid means he wants attention from teamliquid community, which also means he want acceptance from the foreigner community. Therefore in my opinion the theory of an immature idra is more logical than the theory of I don't give a shit about foreigner community
People telling IdrA to kill himself because of his manner online are even more BM than he is, by a long shot. Think about how fucked up and low it is to try give suggestions of ending someone's life. Fucking pigs.
Nony please go back to Korea! Represent us foreigners... Not like this, I'm so disappointed. This really gives foreigners a bad face and he should really apologize to Strelok especially because Strelok gives him the utmost respect, and you can really see the maturity level between the two, Strelok really is about 10 years ahead in terms of maturity.
I love how IdrA is the one making all the mature posts and everyone else is doing the BM and flaming. "Kill yourself/You're so bad!/I hate you!!!!!!!/Etc". I haven't seen one BM post here by IdrA.
Being critical is fine. Asking someone to kill themselves is not. I dont want to go through 16 pages and ban and i dont want to retroactive ban tonight so just shutup. Next stupid comment is 1 week.
On March 23 2009 01:58 Kennigit wrote: Being critical is fine. Asking someone to kill themselves is not. I dont want to go through 16 pages and ban and i dont want to retroactive ban tonight so just shutup. Next stupid comment is 1 week.
Good thing I read these pages before posting. Now I have nothing to say at all.
I don't know if it's just because of the other game that I come from with everyone being bm and shittalking everyone else there but, I don't really see what the big problem is. So what if some people are a little bit disrespectful. It's what adds excitement and drama and entertainment to the e-sport. I'd honestly have a much more entertaining time watching people who don't like each other play each other than people who are super good mannered, with no personality at all. Not saying being good mannered is bad, but I just don't understand why everyone has to conform to it so zealously. Different personalities is what makes anything in entertainment and sports fun to watch and keep up with.
On March 23 2009 01:50 Shinrei wrote: I love how IdrA is the one making all the mature posts and everyone else is doing the BM and flaming. "Kill yourself/You're so bad!/I hate you!!!!!!!/Etc". I haven't seen one BM post here by IdrA.
Agreed. It's so ironic that some people are saying ''You suck and should kill yourself because you're BM''. :D
calling someone who beats you a newbie is something that has never made sense to me. Essentially you are just calling yourself a newbie when you say that.
On March 26 2009 13:25 Mastermind wrote: calling someone who beats you a newbie is something that has never made sense to me. Essentially you are just calling yourself a newbie when you say that.
personally i dont think idra was all that bad i mean BM is bad but
strelok DID do some "stupid shit" that game and friends flame each other all the time for fun
Its not that we don't play 14 hours a day, its that there aren't 2 dozen of us living a single house constantly helping each other with build and shit.
On May 02 2009 06:08 Cheerio wrote: Great mind game by Strelok, and Idra... quit SC, you have no future in it and when SC2 comes out you will be losing to 100 APM players.
And you have no future in life if all you do is badmouth people you don't even know, especially when they would own you anyday.
On May 02 2009 06:08 Cheerio wrote: Great mind game by Strelok, and Idra... quit SC, you have no future in it and when SC2 comes out you will be losing to 100 APM players.
And you have no future in life if all you do is badmouth people you don't even know, especially when they would own you anyday.
So there's a bigger chance he'll fail at real life because the guy he flamed would beat him in a computer game?
idra needs to vent his anger somewhere, because god only knows what would happen to him if he said any of this shit anywhere but behind his computer monitor.
if you sneeze in idras direction, you'll send him flying lol.
On May 02 2009 08:47 leMaj24 wrote: idra needs to vent his anger somewhere, because god only knows what would happen to him if he said any of this shit anywhere but behind his computer monitor.
if you sneeze in idras direction, you'll send him flying lol.
lol you totally know because all idra does is sit infront of a computer in a house where all the members work out lol lol ol
lol @ Idra saying it's just that he get pissed when he loses. What about that interview before the game vs F91? Got pissed there too? "OMG IT'S A QUESTION!!! I'M NERVOUS I NEED TO TALK CRAP!!"
On May 02 2009 09:47 VIB wrote: lol @ Idra saying it's just that he get pissed when he loses. What about that interview before the game vs F91? Got pissed there too? "OMG IT'S A QUESTION!!! I'M NERVOUS I NEED TO TALK CRAP!!"
? i didnt talk shit. they asked me for a prediction and i gave one. read korean interviews, even the most humble always say theyre going to win.
On March 26 2009 13:25 Mastermind wrote: calling someone who beats you a newbie is something that has never made sense to me. Essentially you are just calling yourself a newbie when you say that.
personally i dont think idra was all that bad i mean BM is bad but
strelok DID do some "stupid shit" that game and friends flame each other all the time for fun
On May 02 2009 09:21 PringleR wrote: IdrA fails! And those of you that saw the games against Fenix know that its not only when he loses, but actually when hes winning aswel.
GG Strelok! I'm looking forward to se White_Ra destroy IdrA in ESWC.
EPT
IdrA vs 
Strelok @ Chupung-Ryeong![[image loading]](http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3415/thenwhydoyoulosetohim.png)
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doesn't anyone want to talk about Strelok's sneaky dropships? or Idra's intuition to spot a proxy rax? 
