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Return of the Subtitle [Latest: Boxer vs Hiya]

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
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FConnectionUK *
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
United States316 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-02-18 20:51:44
January 28 2008 00:53 GMT
#1
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [11/29/2008]: Boxer vs Hiya, Possibly the best game ever played!!
Thank you Seraphim for the edit! You are the man!
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
Part #1

Part #2

Part #3

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [10/14/2008]: [Inside] the Game: The Plan
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
Looking beyond? Seeing the bigger picture?
And going against God-given instinct? Damn...

Here I bring you the most unappreciated Pimpest Play of 2008.


TheMarine, after being so amazed by Mind's brilliant strategy, asked Mind's Coach. "What was the winning pertage with this FE counter build?"
Mind's coach said gravely looking into TheMarine. "100% winning percentage. During the practice, Mind never lost. At least if the opponent was playing against this Build order for the first time...10 out of 10, they all lost to it."

But THAT move was the game stopper.
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 16 2008 03:48 FConnectionUK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2008 03:22 meathook wrote:
I remember that game.

One of the best recent TvTs, even though that move can be considered "brilliant" the true brilliance was Mind's build that game.

His strat centred around vults with mines and cloaked wraiths, using the vults to harrass and plant mines. Which forced Flash to use up his scans to clean out the mines everywhere, he then attacked with cloaked wraiths and Flash could do nothing.

If you have not seen this TvT, do it now.


You're right. Also let's not forget Mind's strategy did not stop there. There was one more part to the whole grandios which was the tank drop right after the cloaked wraiths + the bunker.

But let's go over Mind's insane strategy from the start:

The whole plan starts as soon as Flash scouts Mind's base. Mind's ramp has one vulture. The first mind game starts right here. By showing only one vulture as Flash's late scout goes up the ramp, this implies this: Mind has add-on attached to his first factory. Thus, Flash can safely assume no vulture raid in the beginning.

Edit: (If he showed a second vulture. Flash would've built a bunker in the front which would give away everything. Mind's really saying here "Don't build a bunker" and worked)

The next part is the subtitled part. The unexpected vulture raid happens from the very start. The vultures plant the mines and take the damage. At this time, Flash can only assume that Mind is going for the natural exp. Which then again is only part of Mind's plan. Mind wants all Flash's defense at the exp. And this is the part where we can SAFELY assume this whole picture was in Mind's plan. This build has been carefully planned to the very second. VOD does not show it, however in the replay, by stop producing the SCV's, Mind PERFECTED the timing of mine research upgrade. Upgrade was finished by the time the dropship was loading up the vultures.

Then what next? Exactly what meathook said. He plans mines everywhere so Flash is forced to use scans. And here comes the cloaked wraiths. Genius. But it does not end here.

Using the map where having the upper ledge means everything Mind tries to get tanks on the ledge. Only if he built a bunker fast enough...

now THIS strategy like I mentioned before. If facing it for the very first time, 10 out of 10 times, you'd lose. Flash is just an exception.

p.s Like i said, I was too lazy to translate the whole analysis

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [5/11/2008]: 5/10/2008 Arena MSL Group F Light vs Fantasy
VOD: Request
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [3/23/2008]: FireBatHero!!
VOD: + Show Spoiler +

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [3/22/2008]: Preview
VOD: + Show Spoiler +

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [3/19/2008]: Battle.net Attack FireBatHero Episode 5, Part 1
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
Part 1:

Part 2:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [3/15/2008]: GoRush Part 2
VOD: + Show Spoiler +

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [3/14/2008]: GoRush Part 1
VOD: + Show Spoiler +

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [3/13/2008]: 080211 OGN StarChallenge S.1 Group A Game 4 (Casy vs JY)
VOD: Request
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [2/9/2008]: Bisu's B.net Attack Episode 8
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [1/28/2008]: PL Playoff Final game 1(Jaedong vs Iris)
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Update [1/27/2008]: Gom TV S4 Ro16 - Kwanro vs Kal
VOD: + Show Spoiler +
Part 1

Part 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Few things You can learn from Subtitle:
+ Show Spoiler +
1) Overlord and CommandCenter/Nexus have same vision range. However, the vision starts from the center of the building/unit. This means, when zerg scouts a base with an overlord, it's possible for Zerg's overlord to see you, but your big CC/Nex will NOT see the overlord.

2) Most minerals are 1500. Progamers time their attack based on how many minerals are left. When an Expansion have 1400, this means exp's been running for 1:30 minutes. You can then decide whether to forfeit the timing and play catch up, or time.

3) Lurkers shoot faster when you give target even before they are fully burrowed. Don't ask why, they just do. (100% sure, GoRush said it in B.net Attack)

4) With 11 Mutalisks stacked together, you only need to hit the turret twice. Even though, it will not completely kill off the turret, in next 2 seconds it will blow up. So have a new target.

5) Starcraft second and real life second is little bit different. All progamers know the exact time period of each spell. For instance, statis field is 1 min long in Sc time (if i remember correctly) however, in real life time, its only 45 seconds!! So if you ever get your tanks frozen, START COUNTING! get ready to Scan and bring in more troops in 45 secs!

6) Another common talk Commentator mentions between the "GAP"

Workers for each race mine the minerals at different speed/pace: Probes are the fastest, Scvs are next, and Drones are the slowest. THIS HAS A BIGGER IMPACT IN A GAME THAN YOU THINK. This means Protoss always need to look into the future for more income while Terran and Zerg can feed of few bases for a longer period of time.
(Also if you saw the subtitle for Iris vs Jaedong, you notice that they do talk about different aspect of the mining. They inform you that Terran is a race that cannot spend as fast as they get, so they will have more "duration" to keep a big army, whereas, the zerg can spend them immediately due to many hatcheries at once.)

7) Because SC commentary/Audience is so advanced, most comments made in game is based on the map. Which part does what, which part favors who, which part should be taken at such time, which part is the deciding point... etc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Segments of TheMarine's Stimpack Interview Translation I thought was interesting
+ Show Spoiler +
Yell0w: When I watch Flash play the game, without pretense, I'm amazed. Simply amazing.
I've never seen anyone who can manage the eco as well as he does. Every eco falls into perfect timing. PERFECT timing.
Not only that, it seems like he's spending all his eco, yet he always have spare mineral to expand more...
That really is breathtaking to watch. Is he really calculating all the timing? Or is this by his sense?

TheMarine: I think it's both; he calculates as much as he can, but he relies on his sense as well. In Starcraft, having a good sense is the best

Yell0w: To be honest, I don't watch any other progamers play. Not at all. But recently, I watched the game between Flash and Jaedong...
And I saw how Jaedong played. Holy cow! (giggles)

TheMarine: Yes, I know. I thought to myself, you can't get ANY better than THAT!

Yell0w: Goodness... H e i s c r a z y!

TheMarine: Watching him play, I tell that to myself everyday!

Yell0w: In any given circumstance, he reads them all. He's not just good at playing the game... He knows how to win the game.
What I mean by that is, he has a way to win even in the most desperate situation. He's not just GREAT at game (like the rest of the progamers), he KNOWS how to WIN the game.
From the start to finish, everything he does is to WIN the game, heck, I don't even know how to describe this!
Watching him play, upsets me. Even in my PRIME time, was I THAT good? Casting doubt to myself.
Even with Jaedong's skill, win is not guaranteed, then how about me? Depressing...
Perhaps this is the reason my passion to win collapsed...(nervous laugh)

TheMarine: It's amazing that zerg is able to fight so well against Terran at SUCH high level

Yell0w: Flash was up against Jaedong several times recently

TheMarine: 3 series!

Yell0w: When I see Flash practice in our practice house, it is like a new experience.
This kid is crazy. Crazyyyyy! Everyone admits his spectacular skill.

TheMarine: In practice house, it seems like Flash would NEVER lose to ANYONE

Yell0w: I kept telling him that he already won. There's no way you will lose with the skill you have.
And he responded in a cute fashion, "Fine then, I'll beat Jaedong easily and advance, ok?"
I told him "I have complete faith in you! Go! Go win your games!" (Thumbs up)
He later came back that day... "Hyung... Sorry..."

Yell0w + TheMarine: LoL

Yell0w: So I watched the game. Yes, Flash made mistakes he never makes, but still! He played extremely well! EVEN THEN, Jaedong's play stands out.
Mutalisks cutting off here and there nonstop. Defiler coming out at the perfect timing, dark swarn here and there.
I told myself... he is a MACHINE. He does EVERYTHING at once. He doesn't lack anything at all.

------------------------------

Yell0w: IF old progamer at his PRIME come to play right now, he would fail. The game level has enhanced so much since then.

Yell0w: At my prime time, I thought I was THE best. There can't be any more improvement from this point on.
Just look at my APM.
Yet time continued to flow and now I ask myself, if I was to come today from the past with my skills at the prime time, will I be successful?
Skills have evolved once more again...

TheMarine: I agree, there was a BIG skill improvement again and again.
As of late, Offense AND defense are both a must at the same time.

TheMarine: Isn't that amusing if you think about it? In our prime time, we felt that... with every effort we moved our hands at the fastest speed we thought was possible. We concluded that our hands cannot be any faster than this.
Especially at my time, the reason why I was most successful was only because my hands were the fastest. Back then 100 apm was the average, if fast, then low 200.
However, I maintain low to mid 300 apms. Then XelloS and Nada's appearance pushed the limit to mid - high 300 apm. I thought THAT was the true limit. Anything above that was humanly impossible.
The end. The end of multitask, the end of micro, the end of macro. That was the impression I had... But now, just look at Bisu... Jaedong... their apm? OVER 400. What's more amusing? All their teammates claim that all their movements are required movements. (Not spam)
And I have nothing to say to that...


Enjoy!
SC:BW - NrG.fCuk // SC2 - NrGGuN
ShaLLoW[baY]
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada12499 Posts
January 28 2008 00:54 GMT
#2
I fucking love you.
ALEXISONFIRE ARE FUCKING BACK (sAviOr for life)
mdainoob
Profile Joined June 2007
United States51 Posts
January 28 2008 00:57 GMT
#3
Holy shit that's amazing. Subtitling takes a rediculous amount of work too. Thanks!
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
January 28 2008 00:58 GMT
#4
<3<3<3 Awesome thanks!
We make signature, then defense it.
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
January 28 2008 00:59 GMT
#5
OMG, + star asap?

<3

Best game in the series IMO.

Again, thank you so much for the translation!
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
January 28 2008 01:09 GMT
#6
Much thanks. :>
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
Seraphim
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
United States4467 Posts
January 28 2008 01:19 GMT
#7
Awesome! Can't wait! Thanks for doing this!
Hermes | Bisu[Shield] Fighting~!
Hittegods
Profile Joined April 2007
Stockholm4640 Posts
January 28 2008 01:20 GMT
#8
This is better than sliced bread! Thanks a bunch, haven't even watched the PL finals so this will be greater than great.
This neo violence, pure self defiance
Pressure
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
7326 Posts
January 28 2008 01:24 GMT
#9
The file you are trying to access is temporarily unavailable.
x.x ㅅㅂ
.kaz
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
1963 Posts
January 28 2008 01:24 GMT
#10
Invalid link. Update, quick!
Pressure - "rock is the defender of justice" 이병민 / 박영민 Hwaiting~
[X]Ken~D
Profile Joined June 2007
377 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-01-28 01:26:36
January 28 2008 01:24 GMT
#11
Can someone post the VOD to rapidshare? Currently in a country where the download slots is always full!
Fatr1x
Profile Joined July 2007
Chile87 Posts
January 28 2008 01:33 GMT
#12
the vod is 450MB, so it cant be uploaded in rapidshare
NaDa Fighting
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
January 28 2008 01:46 GMT
#13
already?

holy shit. good work <3
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
January 28 2008 01:58 GMT
#14
On January 28 2008 09:54 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
I fucking love you.

Moletrap
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1297 Posts
January 28 2008 02:03 GMT
#15
hard core
aka Moletrap
Jayson X
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Switzerland2431 Posts
January 28 2008 02:15 GMT
#16
You're the man!!

VOD on the download. can't wait to see the subtitle file.
I bow in respect.
Elwood Blues
Profile Joined February 2007
United States261 Posts
January 28 2008 02:18 GMT
#17
that last one you did was kick ass <3
move over rover, let jimi take over
Narrator
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States868 Posts
January 28 2008 03:07 GMT
#18
Thank you! I can't wait for this.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
January 28 2008 03:20 GMT
#19
I already loved you before, I just love you even more now.
Thank you.
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
MeriaDoKk
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Chile1726 Posts
January 28 2008 03:21 GMT
#20
damn u are nice, but i cant download from megaupload
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