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Just_a_Moth
Canada1971 Posts
On July 02 2026 23:42 Darkwhite wrote: Is there a chance ZvZ is more interesting with fastest minerals, or does it still devolve into low-eco mutaling? Probably mid-eco mutaling | ||
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Darkwhite
Norway355 Posts
Now, spores and hydras suck, but you do have a lot of minerals. | ||
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Crimson)S(hadow
Philippines977 Posts
although i expect people might still go ling/muta since the stack has been reduced from 10 to 9, and there are still standard expansions beyond the fastest map style main | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia559 Posts
On July 03 2026 00:33 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: In fastest map hydras are the meta in zvz, there was a game on fastest where byul or hamburgersasu (can’t remember which) went hydras and beat queen or soulkey (one of the two, can’t remember which) going mutas although i expect people might still go ling/muta since the stack has been reduced from 10 to 9, and there are still standard expansions beyond the fastest map style main It would be so good if we actually had a map favoring hydra in zvz... | ||
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prosatan
Romania9399 Posts
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c3rberUs
Japan11834 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8201 Posts
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doktordingerdonger
139 Posts
On June 25 2026 11:58 namkraft wrote: Why didn't they keep JD it was such a fun map! en.namu.wiki The balance is at a miserable level , with Protoss being overwhelmingly good and Zerg being overwhelmingly bad in this Toss map . In a TEF match , Toss is only unable to use its unique gas rush against Terran in a 2-player map, but other than that, Toss is good in almost every respect. In particular, even if Toss goes for River + Carrier with fast multiplayer , Terran cannot be defeated. Not only in TEF matches but also in ZERF matches , Toss has an overwhelming advantage due to the fact that there is too little gas in the backfield, the amount of minerals in the main base is large, and it is very easy to multi-expand and roll against Zerg. Even in the Teser battle, it was expected that the crazy Zerg would receive a lot of power at first, but when we opened the lid, we found that the Terran had an overwhelming advantage, to the point where the Zerg would have a hard time defeating the Terran even if they openly used mechanics. Some are even saying that the mapper created this map to blatantly block ASL Zerg's consecutive wins. Meanwhile, Jeong Yun- jong left an assessment that, like Uldolmok , this map was initially a Toss map, but when opened later in the competition, it would be reduced to a Zerg map, which turned out to be a somewhat incorrect prediction. Rather, the zerg managed to win in the beginning, but after the toss adapted to the map, the toss recorded a win rate of over 70%. In fact, this is natural because even in the early days of Uldolmok, Toss showed not very good performances against both Zerg and Terran, so there was an atmosphere that Toss would surprisingly struggle once it entered actual combat, but Jane Doe actually showed the opposite. What's more, since the start of the new ASL season, among former pros, Zerg's win rate vs. Protoss on this map was a whopping 3 wins, 14 losses (17.65%) . In the end, as of April 2026, Jane Doe has solidified the opinion that Protoss has a huge advantage in Tehran, which is a better matchup, especially among former pros, and that it is almost impossible for Zerg to win this map against Toss, unless the opponent makes a big mistake. Tezer match is also better than against Protoss, but Terran still has an overwhelming advantage, so in the end, there are many maps like Polestar where the balance between races is miserable. Among the current ladder maps, it was relegated to Toss map . Worst of all, even in regular ladder matches, users of races other than Protoss will only hit the ban on this map in 9 out of 10 cases. | ||
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Kanzzer
66 Posts
Highly recommend you install a Google translate browser extension and then use it to the translate the original Korean page (remove the "en." from the "en.namuwiki.com" URL). The "en.namuwiki.com" use outdated translation engines, which make the results horrible. | ||
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TMNT
3382 Posts
Fun map but it doesn't really create fair games. And unlike the likes of 76 or Monty Hall where it's also not balanced but at least creates different games with unique strategies and unit compositions, Jane Doe is just one race slapping the other with typical strategies. | ||
GTR
51699 Posts
Colorless Fate 0.80 to 0.90 ![[image loading]](https://img1.daumcdn.net/thumb/R1280x0/?scode=mtistory2&fname=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.kakaocdn.net%2Fdna%2FJ6p7E%2FdJMcage2zWO%2FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMVKCcvowq7cmDukdvKskzPZUC5kxIZEZFWODYRYplnG%2Fimg.jpg%3Fcredential%3DyqXZFxpELC7KVnFOS48ylbz2pIh7yKj8%26expires%3D1785509999%26allow_ip%3D%26allow_referer%3D%26signature%3DJfAEmqLqx5D6nvlWYumU2HGLJo0%253D) ▶ 0.81 → 0.82 Modifications - Fixed an issue where workers moved strangely when sent from the 2 o'clock main base to the lower minerals. ▶ 0.82 → 0.90 Modifications - Increased the narrow entrance of the expansion by one tile (based on when all eggs are destroyed), and changed the blocked eggs from 2 x 3 rows to 3 x 2 rows. - Modified so that the narrow entrance of the expansion cannot be completely blocked from all directions by a small number of buildings. - Modified so that some turrets can be built in the basin near the narrow entrance of the expansion (maximum 2). Odyssey RE 1.90 to 1.93 ![[image loading]](https://img1.daumcdn.net/thumb/R1280x0/?scode=mtistory2&fname=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.kakaocdn.net%2Fdna%2FbczBgS%2FdJMcahygEYT%2FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKfT8BEvrjOYUsSj-iY7bMa1h0V8RSDa1xqPg9RS20Yu%2Fimg.jpg%3Fcredential%3DyqXZFxpELC7KVnFOS48ylbz2pIh7yKj8%26expires%3D1785509999%26allow_ip%3D%26allow_referer%3D%26signature%3DTuMw4hCNfezuhIc062UU8lqQAfo%253D) 1.90 → 1.91b - Added Hallucination Minerals to prevent early game forward rushes - Decrease Main Base Minerals by 1 (10M → 9M) - Fixed an error where Main Base Gas was incorrectly set to 4000 - Adjusted Main Base resource locations ▶ 1.91 → 1.92 - Decrease Main Base Minerals by 1 (8 Minerals) - Increase Main Base Resources by 1500 → 1700 (Total resources maintained) ▶ 1.92 → 1.93 - Added Main Base Neutral ComSat Scanner Aiolos 0.90 to 0.91 ![[image loading]](https://img1.daumcdn.net/thumb/R1280x0/?scode=mtistory2&fname=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.kakaocdn.net%2Fdna%2FcT5Xi9%2FdJMcahkKsnj%2FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMHhiVca6N-yU0kY7hbvl9Ts8Ftf7jZSU4WdXu2q2Kka%2Fimg.jpg%3Fcredential%3DyqXZFxpELC7KVnFOS48ylbz2pIh7yKj8%26expires%3D1785509999%26allow_ip%3D%26allow_referer%3D%26signature%3D3yM%252BZmzbV333qBDUvge7jGQf2Ps%253D) ▶ 0.90 → 0.91 - Overall resource gathering rate adjusted - Changed resource placement for all starting locations Backrooms 0.80 to 0.81 ![[image loading]](https://img1.daumcdn.net/thumb/R1280x0/?scode=mtistory2&fname=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.kakaocdn.net%2Fdna%2FvMTqb%2FdJMb9972Den%2FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACyhkzn8rAxIzJu8IxA19CQgTDRVXaE8PZHELjwo6txc%2Fimg.jpg%3Fcredential%3DyqXZFxpELC7KVnFOS48ylbz2pIh7yKj8%26expires%3D1785509999%26allow_ip%3D%26allow_referer%3D%26signature%3DCaxZEZoFfNefZdfr8ipkMMnG9WI%253D) Major Modifications for Version 0.80 → 0.81 (2026-07-04) - Fixed an issue where Marines would come out inward when blocking the 1 o'clock main base entrance with one Barracks and two Supply Depots. - Fixed the advantage/disadvantage of the hill behind the expansion base. Attitude SE 1.90 to 1.93 ![[image loading]](https://img1.daumcdn.net/thumb/R1280x0/?scode=mtistory2&fname=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.kakaocdn.net%2Fdna%2FPYiFE%2FdJMcaaFXF5e%2FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAFoHgsF1BVjU7x-CeRwYaGN1MvFeVbrWpv9VlTXuxE4n%2Fimg.jpg%3Fcredential%3DyqXZFxpELC7KVnFOS48ylbz2pIh7yKj8%26expires%3D1785509999%26allow_ip%3D%26allow_referer%3D%26signature%3DC5SHRdjGNh7mU6d17Td2Zmt19ao%253D) ▶ 1.90 → 1.91 Updates - Temporary improvement in resource gathering rates ▶ 1.91 → 1.92 Updates - Modified to allow Overlords to be deployed in front of the 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock expansions (Originally, Overlords could be deployed in front of all additional gas expansions, but an issue occurred during the upgrade to SE where they could not be deployed only at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock) - Fixed some asymmetrical terrain, etc. ▶ 1.92 → 1.93 Updates - Fixed some terrain errors and advantages/disadvantages - Improved resource gathering rates Octagon SE 1.90 to 1.91 ![[image loading]](https://img1.daumcdn.net/thumb/R1280x0/?scode=mtistory2&fname=https%3A%2F%2Fblog.kakaocdn.net%2Fdna%2FcEIUBL%2FdJMcabx0ddo%2FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACbQq1SmAHCKNfPkJ1QSP4iXLtwGVhoA3-o1UHi3Nl0J%2Fimg.jpg%3Fcredential%3DyqXZFxpELC7KVnFOS48ylbz2pIh7yKj8%26expires%3D1785509999%26allow_ip%3D%26allow_referer%3D%26signature%3DmkWG2b8LZP%252FEIDDV95OPOLfFhyg%253D) ▶ Major Modifications for Version 1.90 → 1.91 (2026-07-04) - Added a 2 x 2 terrain where turrets can be built on the path leading down from the Octagonal Ridge to the center. - Modified the entrance to the Gas Expansion so that it can be blocked by two Supply Depots. | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3171 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5964 Posts
I'm a bit surprised by that. The first defeats the purpose of this map imo, the second one can give T immediate 4 scans before taking expo and teching perfectly as a response. (Or does the neutral scanner have a max of 100 energy or something?) 400 minerals instead of 200/50 gas when going mech... has potential of completely skipping academy and ebay? As for the mineral wall, why not add a row of eggs to the wall to still make a worker scout possible and help with walling after the minerals vanish? I'm still curious about my own suggestion that wouldn't need a neutral scanner and takes off the turbo once you get your first buildings and units. I imagine you also don't need the mineral wall in that case. Complaining aside, I'm still happy there is this experimenting with new map ideas. BW really needs these soft patches to keep things from getting stale and hopefully one day reach a new standard that brings us even closer to true balance. | ||
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mutantmagnet
United States3807 Posts
Snow vs Queen on Aiolos Soma vs Rush on Colorless Fate There is a backrooms game but I don't recommend it. | ||
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Kraekkling
756 Posts
the only reason I can think of is that someone used 3 probes to mineral jump the mineral wall at the natural, so they thought they needed to nerf that, too | ||
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Kraekkling
756 Posts
imo it's fine on Odyssey, but I'm not convinced we need that on literally every single 2-player-map why would they do that??????? can someone enlighten me? why fuck up the possibility of worker-scout for all matchups? is the Korean programer scene convinced that gas steal is unwinnable for Terrans? Did we see gas steal in every single game on older 2-player maps (e.g. Butter, Invader)? Why can't Terran block their ramp with an SCV if they know for sure that the probe is coming? | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10569 Posts
On July 05 2026 15:17 GTR wrote: Aiolos 0.90 to 0.91 ▶ 0.90 → 0.91 - Overall resource gathering rate adjusted - Changed resource placement for all starting locations Aiolos 8 spawn is awful. Gas below requires an additional worker to saturate correctly... | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden561 Posts
On July 06 2026 20:36 Kraekkling wrote: and btw, it really seems like every single 2-player-map from now on will have some special feature to prevent pylon-scout into gas steal PvT imo it's fine on Odyssey, but I'm not convinced we need that on literally every single 2-player-map why would they do that??????? can someone enlighten me? why fuck up the possibility of worker-scout for all matchups? is the Korean programer scene convinced that gas steal is unwinnable for Terrans? Did we see gas steal in every single game on older 2-player maps (e.g. Butter, Invader)? Why can't Terran block their ramp with an SCV if they know for sure that the probe is coming? Because games where P gas-steals T on 2p maps all look the same? It's boring to play and watch. | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10569 Posts
On July 07 2026 16:54 A.Alm wrote: Because games where P gas-steals T on 2p maps all look the same? It's boring to play and watch. Problem is without gas steal and Protoss advantage, doesn't it feel like Protoss is just naturally behind against Terran? Maps are too small, not enough bases to support going wide. It feels like Protoss is forced to carrier on every 2p map if the game state is remotely even like on Match Point as an example. No room for 2nd gateway farm. The alternative is to make the rush distance a few extra seconds long on every 2p to encourage more 12nex. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden561 Posts
On July 08 2026 03:37 FlaShFTW wrote: Problem is without gas steal and Protoss advantage, doesn't it feel like Protoss is just naturally behind against Terran? Maps are too small, not enough bases to support going wide. It feels like Protoss is forced to carrier on every 2p map if the game state is remotely even like on Match Point as an example. No room for 2nd gateway farm. The alternative is to make the rush distance a few extra seconds long on every 2p to encourage more 12nex. I think toss is fine without gas steal. But, being forced into carriers isn't fun either. I don't think rushing Carrier's will be meta on Odyssey RE, but speed shuttle play. I don't see how T stands a chance on that map tbh. I think Eclipse gave P some options other than just fast Carriers too (regardless of gas-steal). Best (and others) played Arbiters on Match Point to prevent T from taking a 4th base. T also had a lot of options on that map (and could prevent gas-steal with depo+rax wall). Imo, a great 2p TvP map. Jane Doe was a great example of boring 2p TvP map: 90% of games were nexus first into fast carriers into 10min all-in push from T. | ||
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