EPTWell said bro.
Competitive Gaming Article by Day[9] - Page 2
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jkillashark
United States5262 Posts
Well said bro. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
Oh I also think this deserves to be in the FE, but that is not my call. | ||
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Avius
Iraq1796 Posts
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Zherak
Norway256 Posts
I think you should have mentioned the inverse, the marginal disadvantage, and the kind of play it creates. For instance, hockey teams switching their goalie for an attacker in the last minutes, Jaedong's muta-scourge rush vs Stork after losing 4 drones to zealot harass. | ||
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blagoonga123
United States2068 Posts
"First, there is no such thing as a good competitive game that has an obvious optimal strategy. For example, there is no competitive tic-tac-toe gaming, as two logical players would tie every time. I remember playing an old real-time strategy game called KKND, where one of the units was clearly the strongest unit in the game. Playing against my brother degenerated into a fray where we hurled masses of the same unit at each other until one of us got bored and stopped playing. On the other hand, a superior game like StarCraft presents a completely intractable problem. There is no best race, no best strategy, and certainly no best way to win." Because there are optimal strategies in games like Chess and Go, and I'd venture to say that theyre some of the best competitive games in the world. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
On January 03 2008 05:18 blagoonga123 wrote: The only part I didn't like about this was "First, there is no such thing as a good competitive game that has an obvious optimal strategy. For example, there is no competitive tic-tac-toe gaming, as two logical players would tie every time. I remember playing an old real-time strategy game called KKND, where one of the units was clearly the strongest unit in the game. Playing against my brother degenerated into a fray where we hurled masses of the same unit at each other until one of us got bored and stopped playing. On the other hand, a superior game like StarCraft presents a completely intractable problem. There is no best race, no best strategy, and certainly no best way to win." Because there are optimal strategies in games like Chess and Go, and I'd venture to say that theyre some of the best competitive games in the world. err nono !! i think you misunderstood me. chess and go don't have optimal strategies. that is, the game has not been "solved." the fact is, the best move is sometimes ambiguous. sometimes, there are CLEAR correct moves to make, but this does not imply an overarching correct way to play EVERY single move in the game. if there was an absolute 100% correct move in every circumstance, THAT would be an "optimal strategy." (I'm using optimal in a mathematical sense, in that an optimal play will always at least draw all other types of play). hope that clarified  (ps, <3 chess and go haha) | ||
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Response
United States1936 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
On the article, I also can just add my support, I agree with the points you made, loud and clear. Blizzard employees should read this (I'm sure they do since we're told they keep a close-eye on TL.net anyway). This reminded me of my games where I banged my head to the wall after doing the mistakes you describe, loosing the game because of it every now and then. I also figured this thing out on my own - isn't so hard imo - , and I always had to cool myself during games not to make hasty moves. Often you could see me having a huge advantage but instead of going for the kill - I just took the map , defended vs harass opportunities and waited for my opponent to act while expoing, waiting patiently. It isn't sparking, but it works  | ||
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Bartar
Greece83 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
belongs in FE or strategy forum, or both! | ||
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Disarray
United States1164 Posts
On December 31 2007 10:44 Day[9] wrote: On the other hand, excellent competitive games, such as Marvel vs Capcom 2, allow for huge diversity in response. In Marvel vs Capcom 2, players can elect three characters to form a fighting team. With fifty-six characters from which to choose, Marvel vs Capcom 2 offers over 25,000 combinations of possible teams, presenting the player with virtually unlimited options. At the highest level of play, strong competitive players can be seen using drastically different teams and styles. now I know you've played MvC2 (i've seen your wcg replays where your name was striderdoom, got a kick out of that) and you cannot honestly tell me this statement is true. at tournaments theres really about 3 teams you ever see played, and about 9-10 characters that are actually used. also a really small nitpick at the same statement.... i didn't do the math but i'd assume how you got 25,000 combinations from 56 characters means "Sentinel-Cable-Magneto" and "Cable-Sentinel-Magneto" count as different teams, wich would mean its not really 25,000. agian i'd like to strongly emphasize that i loved the article and it was great, but having watched how actual mvc2 tournaments breakdown, i could not resist this nit-pick. | ||
Chill
Calgary25989 Posts
On January 03 2008 07:13 Disarray wrote: Great great article, but I REALLY couldn't help but nitpick one thing you said. now I know you've played MvC2 (i've seen your wcg replays where your name was striderdoom, got a kick out of that) and you cannot honestly tell me this statement is true. at tournaments theres really about 3 teams you ever see played, and about 9-10 characters that are actually used. also a really small nitpick at the same statement.... i didn't do the math but i'd assume how you got 25,000 combinations from 56 characters means "Sentinel-Cable-Magneto" and "Cable-Sentinel-Magneto" count as different teams, wich would mean its not really 25,000. agian i'd like to strongly emphasize that i loved the article and it was great, but having watched how actual mvc2 tournaments breakdown, i could not resist this nit-pick. http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=56 choose 3&btnG=Google Search&meta= | ||
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crazie-penguin
United States1253 Posts
I DEMAND YOU WRITE MORE OF THESE | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
On January 03 2008 07:13 Disarray wrote: Great great article, but I REALLY couldn't help but nitpick one thing you said. now I know you've played MvC2 (i've seen your wcg replays where your name was striderdoom, got a kick out of that) and you cannot honestly tell me this statement is true. at tournaments theres really about 3 teams you ever see played, and about 9-10 characters that are actually used. also a really small nitpick at the same statement.... i didn't do the math but i'd assume how you got 25,000 combinations from 56 characters means "Sentinel-Cable-Magneto" and "Cable-Sentinel-Magneto" count as different teams, wich would mean its not really 25,000. agian i'd like to strongly emphasize that i loved the article and it was great, but having watched how actual mvc2 tournaments breakdown, i could not resist this nit-pick. i get 25,000 by evaluating the binomial coefficient (56 choose 3) which evaluates to 56*55*54/3*2*1 = 27720, which, combinatorially, is the number of ways of having distinct subsets of 3 from a set of 56. that is, cable-sentinel-magneto is not double counted with sentinel-cable-magneto would be. Also, although you definitely do not see close to the 25,000 actual teams, you DO see a wide variety of different teams being used (3 is kind of an exaggeration). I mean, you could probably name a large amount yourself . Still, i liked using the number 25,000 in the article because its kind of a waste of effort to type "there are 25,000 possible teams, and although only a small subset is used, there's still a big variety." Any MvC2 player would agree that there is a great deal of diversity in teams chosen. | ||
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Disarray
United States1164 Posts
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
Featured thread at least? | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
moved to Featured Threads | ||
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Woyn
United Kingdom1628 Posts
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