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[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates - Page 6

Forum Index > BW General
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FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10470 Posts
January 27 2026 18:10 GMT
#101
Some updates, maps were updated to 0.9 for Jane Doe and Attitude. Jane Doe saw the front yard egg removed and ramps changed to north-south ramps rather than diagonal.

Attitude just some natural mineral changes and mining optimizations.

Still waiting on them to fix Match Point so the map is entirely symmetrical. As it stands I don't think keeping the ramps as they are qualifies this as a tournament level map by today's standards.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands1260 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-01-28 01:19:49
January 28 2026 01:18 GMT
#102
On January 28 2026 03:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Some updates, maps were updated to 0.9 for Jane Doe and Attitude. Jane Doe saw the front yard egg removed and ramps changed to north-south ramps rather than diagonal.

Attitude just some natural mineral changes and mining optimizations.

Still waiting on them to fix Match Point so the map is entirely symmetrical. As it stands I don't think keeping the ramps as they are qualifies this as a tournament level map by today's standards.


That Jane doe ramp change was specifically because you could make the scouting worker clip into the marine by sending it back to your own minerals and immediately canceling the command IF you had placed your worker on the far side of the marine on the ramp relative to your own base. This would make it "mineral" walk into the marine, and if canceled, the game would force BOTH units to move. This effectively made the marine+medic block completely useless.
JDON MY SOUL!
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8171 Posts
January 28 2026 14:35 GMT
#103
On January 28 2026 03:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Some updates, maps were updated to 0.9 for Jane Doe and Attitude. Jane Doe saw the front yard egg removed and ramps changed to north-south ramps rather than diagonal.

Attitude just some natural mineral changes and mining optimizations.

Still waiting on them to fix Match Point so the map is entirely symmetrical. As it stands I don't think keeping the ramps as they are qualifies this as a tournament level map by today's standards.


What part of match point isn't symmetrical?
Free Palestine
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9808 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-01-28 14:51:03
January 28 2026 14:49 GMT
#104
The map is mostly symmetrical across a diagonal from top-left to bottom-right. But look at the ramps going into low ground; those are not symmetrical due ramp technology not being quite there yet.

I don't actually mind maps not being symmetrical as long as both spawns are even though, think sometimes its even kinda neat but this isn't really the case for match point as the whole purpose is for it to be as balanced as possible.
boomer hands
[sc1f]eonzerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Belgium6995 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-01-28 15:56:03
January 28 2026 15:54 GMT
#105
This MP is so terran that im expecting minimum 3 terrans in ASL semis.

And this is me without seeing FlaSh playing lol.

You can see Royal/ Rush / Barracks are so buffed.
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8670 Posts
January 28 2026 16:11 GMT
#106
On January 28 2026 10:18 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2026 03:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Some updates, maps were updated to 0.9 for Jane Doe and Attitude. Jane Doe saw the front yard egg removed and ramps changed to north-south ramps rather than diagonal.

Attitude just some natural mineral changes and mining optimizations.

Still waiting on them to fix Match Point so the map is entirely symmetrical. As it stands I don't think keeping the ramps as they are qualifies this as a tournament level map by today's standards.


That Jane doe ramp change was specifically because you could make the scouting worker clip into the marine by sending it back to your own minerals and immediately canceling the command IF you had placed your worker on the far side of the marine on the ramp relative to your own base. This would make it "mineral" walk into the marine, and if canceled, the game would force BOTH units to move. This effectively made the marine+medic block completely useless.


I love this game, lol.
Kraekkling
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
713 Posts
January 28 2026 17:04 GMT
#107
On January 29 2026 00:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
This MP is so terran that im expecting minimum 3 terrans in ASL semis.

And this is me without seeing FlaSh playing lol.

You can see Royal/ Rush / Barracks are so buffed.

actually funny as fuck, its like Terrans are someones favourite child and if they have to live one more season without winning ASL they're going to commit mass suicide

just look at the map WRs LOL

Neo Sylphid
overall: (54.8%)
TvZ: 892 wins, 619 losses (59.0%)
TvP: 907 wins, 862 losses (51.3%)

Pole Star
overall: (59.1%)
TvZ: 636 wins, 418 losses (60.3%)
TvP: 443 wins, 329 losses (57.4%)

Knock Out
overall: (55.1%)
TvZ: 259 wins, 212 losses (55.0%)
TvP: 182 wins, 147 losses (55.3%)


and really it's not like ANY of the newly added maps look bad for Terran

if there was a single season of maps which were anywhere close to being this Zerg favoured, we'd see multiple progamers stop playing

+ Show Spoiler +
*muffled Protoss noises somewhere in the distance*
(*^^)(^*)
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8670 Posts
January 28 2026 17:56 GMT
#108
On January 29 2026 02:04 Kraekkling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2026 00:54 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
This MP is so terran that im expecting minimum 3 terrans in ASL semis.

And this is me without seeing FlaSh playing lol.

You can see Royal/ Rush / Barracks are so buffed.

actually funny as fuck, its like Terrans are someones favourite child and if they have to live one more season without winning ASL they're going to commit mass suicide

just look at the map WRs LOL

Neo Sylphid
overall: (54.8%)
TvZ: 892 wins, 619 losses (59.0%)
TvP: 907 wins, 862 losses (51.3%)

Pole Star
overall: (59.1%)
TvZ: 636 wins, 418 losses (60.3%)
TvP: 443 wins, 329 losses (57.4%)

Knock Out
overall: (55.1%)
TvZ: 259 wins, 212 losses (55.0%)
TvP: 182 wins, 147 losses (55.3%)


and really it's not like ANY of the newly added maps look bad for Terran

if there was a single season of maps which were anywhere close to being this Zerg favoured, we'd see multiple progamers stop playing

+ Show Spoiler +
*muffled Protoss noises somewhere in the distance*


The maps are balanced, it's just that terrans are more talented.

+ Show Spoiler +
Artosis, probably ;P
Kraekkling
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
713 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-01-28 19:05:00
January 28 2026 18:16 GMT
#109
Pole Star
overall: (59.1%)
TvZ: 636 wins, 418 losses (60.3%)
TvP: 443 wins, 329 losses (57.4%)

man I can't get over this

its literally one of the most imbalanced maps of all time, you have to scroll down to fucking Monty Hall on eloboard to find something comparable

it had these stats since ASL 19
it was picked again for ASL 20
it was picked again for ASL 21

edit: nvm Citadel was just as T favoured, but at least it was kept for one season only.
(*^^)(^*)
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States2679 Posts
January 28 2026 18:21 GMT
#110
On January 24 2026 16:10 GTR wrote:
wish they'd just take classic maps and remaster them for the modern day - i would love to see something like peaks of baekdu or ride of valkyries reimagined for modern play.

edit: a lot of concepts that were submitted in the new worlds map contest a few years ago would be perfect.


My humble suggestion:

Arkanoid, Hitchhiker, Longinus 2, Reverse Temple
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10470 Posts
January 28 2026 19:23 GMT
#111
On January 28 2026 23:35 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2026 03:10 FlaShFTW wrote:
Some updates, maps were updated to 0.9 for Jane Doe and Attitude. Jane Doe saw the front yard egg removed and ramps changed to north-south ramps rather than diagonal.

Attitude just some natural mineral changes and mining optimizations.

Still waiting on them to fix Match Point so the map is entirely symmetrical. As it stands I don't think keeping the ramps as they are qualifies this as a tournament level map by today's standards.


What part of match point isn't symmetrical?

The ramps are the biggest issue. Most of them are not inverted properly.

Also, its interesting because yes, the maps are Terran favored by statistics, but Terrans are still struggling. ASL18 was the one time Terran had more than 2 players in bracket stage. Funny enough ASL15 had 5 zergs in bracket and it turned into a TvT final. Protoss is really the lone race out (obviously) with a failure to capture ASL titles consistently, but they usually get 3 players into the bracket along with Zerg getting 3 players too. Be interesting to see the true breakdown in stats for bracket stage by round by race.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
ahwala
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany418 Posts
January 30 2026 13:24 GMT
#112
To me it looks like a pro-Flash map pool.
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1259 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-01-31 16:09:07
January 31 2026 16:08 GMT
#113
Kind of funny that Terran is continuously pampered with the ASL map-pools and eventually what ends up happening is we get some PvZ matchup in the later rounds on some important map that the Z can win almost playing blind-folded and it ends up tarnishing the whole watching experience anyway.

Ridiculous.
Kanzzer
Profile Joined October 2025
56 Posts
February 03 2026 13:36 GMT
#114
On January 15 2026 01:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Metropolis yes.

What does Metropolis do better than Retro in your opinion? Does it surpass FS?
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1259 Posts
February 03 2026 15:41 GMT
#115
Saw some recent TvP's on Attitude lately.

To say this is a FS-style Protoss meat-grinder is an understatement.

Wow.
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10470 Posts
February 03 2026 18:19 GMT
#116
On February 03 2026 22:36 Kanzzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2026 01:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Metropolis yes.

What does Metropolis do better than Retro in your opinion? Does it surpass FS?

Metropolis is far better than Retro in the sense that the main/nat layouts give a lot more play to mutalisks, as well as right outside the natural. Metropolis's center also feels more dynamic than Retros which gives more flanking and counter play to Zerg.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Kanzzer
Profile Joined October 2025
56 Posts
February 03 2026 19:35 GMT
#117
On February 04 2026 03:19 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2026 22:36 Kanzzer wrote:
On January 15 2026 01:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Metropolis yes.

What does Metropolis do better than Retro in your opinion? Does it surpass FS?

Metropolis is far better than Retro in the sense that the main/nat layouts give a lot more play to mutalisks, as well as right outside the natural. Metropolis's center also feels more dynamic than Retros which gives more flanking and counter play to Zerg.


Would you say its TvP is also an improvement over Retro or FS?

Protoss vetoed FS in TvP 3 out of 4 times in ASL11 and vetoed Metropolis in TvP all 3 times it was offered in group stages (though Protoss leads 2-1 in all PvT mandatory Metropolis matches). P never vetoed Retro in all 3 seasons it was used against T though (T vetoed twice out of total 11 times Retro was offered).
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10470 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-02-03 20:41:16
February 03 2026 20:38 GMT
#118
On February 04 2026 04:35 Kanzzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2026 03:19 FlaShFTW wrote:
On February 03 2026 22:36 Kanzzer wrote:
On January 15 2026 01:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Metropolis yes.

What does Metropolis do better than Retro in your opinion? Does it surpass FS?

Metropolis is far better than Retro in the sense that the main/nat layouts give a lot more play to mutalisks, as well as right outside the natural. Metropolis's center also feels more dynamic than Retros which gives more flanking and counter play to Zerg.


Would you say its TvP is also an improvement over Retro or FS?

Protoss vetoed FS in TvP 3 out of 4 times in ASL11 and vetoed Metropolis in TvP all 3 times it was offered in group stages (though Protoss leads 2-1 in all PvT mandatory Metropolis matches). P never vetoed Retro in all 3 seasons it was used against T though (T vetoed twice out of total 11 times Retro was offered).

Metropolis is just a dogshit map for Protoss at top levels. 45% PZ and 41% PT. Not entirely sure the reason for such a bad PZ matchup, my guess is that 1-1 pushes are super strong because of the chokes. PT is bad because Terran takes the center as a 4th base and once they set up tanks there, Protoss can't move around the edges because of how the map layout is without taking significant losses.

Retro is actually a super balanced map outside of ZvT. All the other matchups are within 2.5%. It's possible if we ever get a 2.0, we could look to make the mineral lines more vulnerable at the naturals for muta harass. Not sure what else the map needs after that but that would be a good place to start.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4267 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-02-04 14:34:23
February 04 2026 14:31 GMT
#119
Gotta be by far the most boring ASL map pool we've ever had. I'll probably be skipping this edition, honestly. It's a shame,
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1100 Posts
February 04 2026 14:44 GMT
#120
On February 04 2026 05:38 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 04 2026 04:35 Kanzzer wrote:
On February 04 2026 03:19 FlaShFTW wrote:
On February 03 2026 22:36 Kanzzer wrote:
On January 15 2026 01:55 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Metropolis yes.

What does Metropolis do better than Retro in your opinion? Does it surpass FS?

Metropolis is far better than Retro in the sense that the main/nat layouts give a lot more play to mutalisks, as well as right outside the natural. Metropolis's center also feels more dynamic than Retros which gives more flanking and counter play to Zerg.


Would you say its TvP is also an improvement over Retro or FS?

Protoss vetoed FS in TvP 3 out of 4 times in ASL11 and vetoed Metropolis in TvP all 3 times it was offered in group stages (though Protoss leads 2-1 in all PvT mandatory Metropolis matches). P never vetoed Retro in all 3 seasons it was used against T though (T vetoed twice out of total 11 times Retro was offered).

Metropolis is just a dogshit map for Protoss at top levels. 45% PZ and 41% PT. Not entirely sure the reason for such a bad PZ matchup, my guess is that 1-1 pushes are super strong because of the chokes. PT is bad because Terran takes the center as a 4th base and once they set up tanks there, Protoss can't move around the edges because of how the map layout is without taking significant losses.

Retro is actually a super balanced map outside of ZvT. All the other matchups are within 2.5%. It's possible if we ever get a 2.0, we could look to make the mineral lines more vulnerable at the naturals for muta harass. Not sure what else the map needs after that but that would be a good place to start.


No, just put overlord posts everywhere. It doesn't affect ZvP because Protoss gets corsair anyway so they don't really run around with dragoons sniping overlords. Why Radeon is relatively balanced is because there are places to put your overlords to get good map vision.

You can even put the divot against hydra busts in front of the natural, it wouldn't hurt the balance.
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