I've made a nifty UMS to specifically train mine defusing by dragoons without observers and decided to share it with everyone. Not that it's that great, but still could prove helpful.
Note that mines are only planted on special terrain so you should have a general idea of where they are. As a general idea for the technique - first A-move like 1 goon size forward, then move half goon size backwards, repeat until mine pops, you step backwards and A-move so that goons fire. If you get it down to machine level (i.e. you just know the click timings) it can be done even on B.net. Note that I've completed the map several times, even though I never managed to get a perfect score. Good luck.
On November 23 2007 09:13 BluzMan wrote: I've made a nifty UMS to specifically train mine defusing by dragoons without observers and decided to share it with everyone. Not that it's that great, but still could prove helpful.
Note that mines are only planted on special terrain so you should have a general idea of where they are. As a general idea for the technique - first A-move like 1 goon size forward, then move half goon size backwards, repeat until mine pops, you step backwards and A-move so that goons fire. If you get it down to machine level (i.e. you just know the click timings) it can be done even on B.net. Note that I've completed the map several times, even though I never managed to get a perfect score. Good luck.
Can you describe your technique a little more clearly? As in what exactly is selected and where.
I tried your method first, but I was mostly unsuccessfully. I think I always retrieved a little too much, so that the mine would catch up and hit the goons.
What I did in the end was just hold position (which, I guess is a lazier version of your method). I would move my goons inch by inch, and keep on pressing the "H" key. It works 95% of the time I would say. I then tried it on b-net, and I lost a crapload of goons >.<
The hold position method is better.. You move your dragoons a bit forward, tap hold position. Repeat. If you can see any attacking mine, then wait until your dragoons launch their projectiles, and you will have a small time window when you can still move your dragoons backwards, this helps greatly.
Thanks a lot bluzman. With guys like you we'll rebuild Aiur in no time. EDIT: OK obviously if I don't get crazy, if I don't destroy my computer with my keyboard this is gonna be a great training. (just joking :p)
On November 23 2007 16:19 Cambium wrote: Hey, thanks for sharing this.
I tried your method first, but I was mostly unsuccessfully. I think I always retrieved a little too much, so that the mine would catch up and hit the goons.
What I did in the end was just hold position (which, I guess is a lazier version of your method). I would move my goons inch by inch, and keep on pressing the "H" key. It works 95% of the time I would say. I then tried it on b-net, and I lost a crapload of goons >.<
Dunno, I've found hold position less reliable because you need to correctly time it with mine popping. Even on LAN, that doesn't always work. B.net is roughly equal to Extra High Latency on LAN, so I've tried it and it's definetely manageable. On EHL, I managed to get to the center without popping. Although on EHL it is somewhat ridiculous because goons move exactly counter-phase to your clicks. You click them to move forward and that very moment they respond do your previous click and move backwards and vice versa. You kinda have not to trust your eyes.
This map also nominates for "the most ridiculous misclick I've made" - I walked towards a mine, it surfaced, then walked backwards and misclicked A-move into one of my own goons. The fun thing is that the goon was wounded and he died (well, not that fun). The real thing is that the mine was homing into that very goon, so killing him made it burrow again, essentially giving me a second chance.
For a basic grasp on the technique you may refer to this replay.
It's not perfect (I've made several crucial misclicks in the end and ran into a mine at some point), but it is something I managed to do in an actual game of StarCraft.
EDIT: the replay looks somewhat hypnotic on fastest x4, lolz.
EDIT2: Important information here!
Mines can be detected on simple/periodic terran because they produce blur like all other cloaked units! This means that with a keen eye you might notice mines on space and installation terrains before you trigger them.
This is a pretty good map. Any chance you can make one that supports 2-4 players? They could either each diffuse his own territory, and have sort of a race to see who does it faster, or just be all together or something.
Hey i jsut tried it out, is there a way you can make it start from the start? instead of giving a fail thing (so we can play infinitely amny times without having to remake bla bla bla)
On November 24 2007 00:06 Gandalf wrote: This is a pretty good map. Any chance you can make one that supports 2-4 players? They could either each diffuse his own territory, and have sort of a race to see who does it faster, or just be all together or something.
In any case, thanks!
Easier done than said. Treat this as a beta test, it might still be buggy:
On November 24 2007 00:32 liosama wrote: Hey i jsut tried it out, is there a way you can make it start from the start? instead of giving a fail thing (so we can play infinitely amny times without having to remake bla bla bla)
I will have to write a LOT of 'create unit' triggers, a lot of locations and it will mess up the leaderboard (how many mines left) and the score meter (your minerals). StarEdit is not C++, I can't write for i=0, i<N, i++, create mine at location number i, I have to make a separate trigger for each mine. Probably not really worth it.
On November 24 2007 00:32 liosama wrote: Hey i jsut tried it out, is there a way you can make it start from the start? instead of giving a fail thing (so we can play infinitely amny times without having to remake bla bla bla)
I will have to write a LOT of 'create unit' triggers, a lot of locations and it will mess up the leaderboard (how many mines left) and the score meter (your minerals). StarEdit is not C++, I can't write for i=0, i<N, i++, create mine at location number i, I have to make a separate trigger for each mine. Probably not really worth it.
I think running in single player and using the Restart Mission option would help ^^
edit: nvm just thought about the absence of lag in single player
They are never too close to each other, so I guess you either spread your goons to wide or made a step too long, they rarely trigger at the same time. Actually, I was first trying to complete it with two goons at a time, but sometimes their AI screws up, so it's better to go with all five. The top left area gives you the benefit of knowing exactly where the mines are, but they are easier to trigger simultaneously than on top right. I still commonly screw up there just because "it's almost the end, I need to get a perfect score BAM misclick".
EDIT: the problem with hold is that if you press hold right as the mine pops, goons AI breaks and they don't shoot instantly, taking all the time to open their cannon. In fact, the best technique for singleplayer is a very quick succession of rightclick ground and hold. It basically allows you to march through the level reacting to mines on the fly. But it won't work for higher latencies, you need some kind of a reiterative method there. At least for me, dancing the goons forward and backwards is more reliable, hold position gives out a large mistake percentage due to problems mentioned above.
Ok, I've managed to play a couple of games with my friend on the multiplayer version and fixed a few bugs. Changelog:
- Proper colors display, now players in the same team have alike colors. - A player that lost all his units isn't defeated as long as his ally lives. - Somewhat better mine layouts. - Pylon is now neutral so it isn't auto-targeted. - Gosu mission briefing.
If a single person on earth gives a fuck, he may get the new version here.
On November 24 2007 00:32 liosama wrote: Hey i jsut tried it out, is there a way you can make it start from the start? instead of giving a fail thing (so we can play infinitely amny times without having to remake bla bla bla)
I will have to write a LOT of 'create unit' triggers, a lot of locations and it will mess up the leaderboard (how many mines left) and the score meter (your minerals). StarEdit is not C++, I can't write for i=0, i<N, i++, create mine at location number i, I have to make a separate trigger for each mine. Probably not really worth it.
Features: -Level restarts on failure, restarts on victory (You keep your score and old goons, so its kind of like a high score thing.)
Things I could add -A countdown timer to limit players taking their time (not really important for single player) -Reduce starting dragoons to 3 (right now its to easy to bait with one goon and mine drag. Starting with three would still allow you to do this, but two screw ups and you will only have 2 goons which is not enough to bait-drag) -add some sort of distraction (offensive unit that cant/wont attack) to screw with the goon AI and make it harder.
I dont really see a reason for any of those, but I can add them if people want. If you have any other suggestions, post them please.
NOTE: I havent tested the victory condition, because I have yet to beat the level :D. So hopefully it works.
Also, I might mod the multiplayer version as well later to give the players 'lives'. i.e. lose all your goons 3 times, you are out.
Thanks, great map for learning it. I experimented for awhile, trying both the a-move method and the hold position method, and I found that it was a combination of the two o.O. Click forwards, click back, and the hold position. It\'s pretty easy that way I think.
I made a quick video of it (really bad run, but it shows an fpv of extra high latency lan completion of the map).
On November 26 2007 15:57 nevake wrote: Thanks, great map for learning it. I experimented for awhile, trying both the a-move method and the hold position method, and I found that it was a combination of the two o.O. Click forwards, click back, and the hold position. It\'s pretty easy that way I think.
I made a quick video of it (really bad run, but it shows an fpv of extra high latency lan completion of the map).
On November 26 2007 15:57 nevake wrote: Thanks, great map for learning it. I experimented for awhile, trying both the a-move method and the hold position method, and I found that it was a combination of the two o.O. Click forwards, click back, and the hold position. It\'s pretty easy that way I think.
I made a quick video of it (really bad run, but it shows an fpv of extra high latency lan completion of the map).
On November 26 2007 15:57 nevake wrote: Thanks, great map for learning it. I experimented for awhile, trying both the a-move method and the hold position method, and I found that it was a combination of the two o.O. Click forwards, click back, and the hold position. It\'s pretty easy that way I think.
I made a quick video of it (really bad run, but it shows an fpv of extra high latency lan completion of the map).
I wonder why we don't see more of that tileset in pro maps. Or is it impossible to add it on to other ones?
Installation is made for UMS only. There are no ooze tiles. There is a secret buildable tile that allows you to play a game normally but since zerg has no ooze tile all they get is a black hole that units either skate across or get stuck in the corner spinning around in. So the map would only allow T and P games with low ground bases.
as far as evil pylon 1.2 multiplayer version goes, I found the Blue position to be easiest. I think being below the mines is much easier than any other direction. (and you can rush the first mine before it burrows).
I've never practiced this skill, my main is T, but last night in a 2v2, I pulled this off on 2 mines and felt like a complete baus. It was awesome! Then I got promptly steamrolled by Z since I hadn't macroed.
On August 28 2012 21:31 thezanursic wrote: Completed it with 2 dead goons. I feel like I could easily pull this off on the ladder if it wasn't for the lag TT
-Would portforwarding reduce the lag? (A question if anyone wants to help)
It's also easy to pull off in ladder if you didn't have a million other things to do :p
Are you playing on iccup? There should be next to no lag most of the time if both you and your opponent have antihack going. I don't think port forwarding does anything to reduce the lag, it should only be needed if you want to host games.
On August 28 2012 21:31 thezanursic wrote: Completed it with 2 dead goons. I feel like I could easily pull this off on the ladder if it wasn't for the lag TT
-Would portforwarding reduce the lag? (A question if anyone wants to help)
It's also easy to pull off in ladder if you didn't have a million other things to do :p
Are you playing on iccup? There should be next to no lag most of the time if both you and your opponent have antihack going. I don't think port forwarding does anything to reduce the lag, it should only be needed if you want to host games.
Ohh then something is wrong with my connection : /. I am not good player, but I lose a lot of games because of lag and I avoid games because of it. It really stunted my proggress. I guess I have to get new internet : /.
EPT
