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United States1661 Posts
On June 23 2024 11:16 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2024 04:31 Miragee wrote:On June 21 2024 06:28 jinjin5000 wrote: I'm pretty surrpised by amount of people who picked flash won't be as dominant
This is exact same argument we saw before he returned if he can really keep up with likes of Bisu and "new meta". I agree. Flash possesses an understanding of the game nobody else does, which is why he will quickly adapt to a new meta and surpass his peers in understanding its intricacies. Of course it will take some time but considering that ASL will likely start in August, I think there is enough time for him. Personally, I am not happy about Flash returning to ASL. Having the whole competition revolving around the idea whether or not anybody might be capable of beating Flash is utterly boring to me. On June 22 2024 03:26 Nirli wrote: This thread was interesting when it was about Flash, the player. Now it's about the people abusing the fact that they have keyboards under their fingers. Go drink a beer boys. Right, it's totally unreasonable for people to discuss their discontent for a popular public figure who missused his popularity to try to scam his own audience. It seems like you really hate him, despite him in reality doing nothing wrong. He was not scamming his audience, unless you can prove he knew the coin was BS and was benefitting off that scam, which you can't and most likely doesn't seem to be the case by any stretch of the imagination. Hilarious to think that grown adults cannot think for themselves and are that easily susceptible to marketing strategies. As for his play in the event, I agree it will be boring to watch him roll the unprofessional players and even the "top" players SCR currently has. The only hope would be if it inspired the lazy players, the current "top", and hopefully even some of the veterans to come back and take it seriously. But given the limited support for SCR and lack of infrastructure in place I'm not sure that happens.
Hilarious to think that grown adults (Flash) cannot realize that he would be ostracized as a result of this fraudulent venture.
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On June 23 2024 13:47 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2024 11:16 NoobSkills wrote:On June 22 2024 04:31 Miragee wrote:On June 21 2024 06:28 jinjin5000 wrote: I'm pretty surrpised by amount of people who picked flash won't be as dominant
This is exact same argument we saw before he returned if he can really keep up with likes of Bisu and "new meta". I agree. Flash possesses an understanding of the game nobody else does, which is why he will quickly adapt to a new meta and surpass his peers in understanding its intricacies. Of course it will take some time but considering that ASL will likely start in August, I think there is enough time for him. Personally, I am not happy about Flash returning to ASL. Having the whole competition revolving around the idea whether or not anybody might be capable of beating Flash is utterly boring to me. On June 22 2024 03:26 Nirli wrote: This thread was interesting when it was about Flash, the player. Now it's about the people abusing the fact that they have keyboards under their fingers. Go drink a beer boys. Right, it's totally unreasonable for people to discuss their discontent for a popular public figure who missused his popularity to try to scam his own audience. It seems like you really hate him, despite him in reality doing nothing wrong. He was not scamming his audience, unless you can prove he knew the coin was BS and was benefitting off that scam, which you can't and most likely doesn't seem to be the case by any stretch of the imagination. Hilarious to think that grown adults cannot think for themselves and are that easily susceptible to marketing strategies. As for his play in the event, I agree it will be boring to watch him roll the unprofessional players and even the "top" players SCR currently has. The only hope would be if it inspired the lazy players, the current "top", and hopefully even some of the veterans to come back and take it seriously. But given the limited support for SCR and lack of infrastructure in place I'm not sure that happens. Hilarious to think that grown adults (Flash) cannot realize that he would be ostracized as a result of this fraudulent venture.
Fraudulent how? In terms of flash, there was no fraud sorry.
Again if hot6 were using slave labor and poisoning their clients, and manipulating their stock price, while sponsoring every single pro in esports across the globe. Would all of those individuals be responsible for the action of a company they do not own, have no knowledge of their actions, just because they have a little bit of stock in that company or received money for sponsorships from them?
Seems like a bunch of salty adults who gambled away their money voluntarily. And is he ostracized really? Lol.
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United States1661 Posts
On June 23 2024 14:19 NoobSkills wrote: Seems like a bunch of salty adults who gambled away their money voluntarily. And is he ostracized really? Lol.
His reputation in Korea has pretty much hit rock bottom. There is a ton of information about how deep this thing went and how bad it turned out on Korean websites (things like Flash blaming his Mom for being responsible for roping him into the Crypto scam or the massive backlash that was directed at the whistleblower in an attempt to silence/discredit her and end her streaming career to name a few), but then you'd have to do some research which might be too much for you.
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On June 23 2024 14:53 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2024 14:19 NoobSkills wrote: Seems like a bunch of salty adults who gambled away their money voluntarily. And is he ostracized really? Lol.
His reputation in Korea has pretty much hit rock bottom. There is a ton of information about how deep this thing went and how bad it turned out on Korean websites (things like Flash blaming his Mom for being responsible for roping him into the Crypto scam or the massive backlash that was directed at the whistleblower in an attempt to silence/discredit her and end her streaming career to name a few), but then you'd have to do some research which might be too much for you.
Watched every video linked, and read jinjin's article. I'm sorry I cannot find something in Korean and understand it, but there is nothing I've seen that says he is in anyway fraudulent as you alluded to.
How are you monitoring his rep? Are you counting the amount of eggs thrown at his apartment/car per day? And were you collecting that data pre-crypto times?
As for the supposed backlash you think Flash was doing his military service and secretly plotting against the whistleblower? Or perhaps the actual people who created the issue with the scam coin might have been in charge of that as well?
See because I can understand if the facts supported it. If he knew the coin was a scam and participated in the scam and benefitted financially off of it. Sure be mad and I hope he goes broke. But that isn't the case and holding him responsible for your personal poor investment decisions and for the actions of the company and people involved in creating the scam coin is just looking for a scapegoat to take blame off yourself.
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@NoobSkills, if 'grown adults' weren't 'susceptible to marketing strategies' then advertisement wouldn't even exist as a concept. Of course grown adults are susceptible to marketing strategies, that's the whole reason marketing is a thing. Something like a trillion dollars is spent directly on advertisement every year, and that doesn't even include a lot of advertisement-adjacent things.
Whether you like it or not, public figures with a following have a big influence on decisions made by their fans. Silly to pretend otherwise.
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Northern Ireland21147 Posts
On June 23 2024 14:19 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2024 13:47 Mizenhauer wrote:On June 23 2024 11:16 NoobSkills wrote:On June 22 2024 04:31 Miragee wrote:On June 21 2024 06:28 jinjin5000 wrote: I'm pretty surrpised by amount of people who picked flash won't be as dominant
This is exact same argument we saw before he returned if he can really keep up with likes of Bisu and "new meta". I agree. Flash possesses an understanding of the game nobody else does, which is why he will quickly adapt to a new meta and surpass his peers in understanding its intricacies. Of course it will take some time but considering that ASL will likely start in August, I think there is enough time for him. Personally, I am not happy about Flash returning to ASL. Having the whole competition revolving around the idea whether or not anybody might be capable of beating Flash is utterly boring to me. On June 22 2024 03:26 Nirli wrote: This thread was interesting when it was about Flash, the player. Now it's about the people abusing the fact that they have keyboards under their fingers. Go drink a beer boys. Right, it's totally unreasonable for people to discuss their discontent for a popular public figure who missused his popularity to try to scam his own audience. It seems like you really hate him, despite him in reality doing nothing wrong. He was not scamming his audience, unless you can prove he knew the coin was BS and was benefitting off that scam, which you can't and most likely doesn't seem to be the case by any stretch of the imagination. Hilarious to think that grown adults cannot think for themselves and are that easily susceptible to marketing strategies. As for his play in the event, I agree it will be boring to watch him roll the unprofessional players and even the "top" players SCR currently has. The only hope would be if it inspired the lazy players, the current "top", and hopefully even some of the veterans to come back and take it seriously. But given the limited support for SCR and lack of infrastructure in place I'm not sure that happens. Hilarious to think that grown adults (Flash) cannot realize that he would be ostracized as a result of this fraudulent venture. Fraudulent how? In terms of flash, there was no fraud sorry. Again if hot6 were using slave labor and poisoning their clients, and manipulating their stock price, while sponsoring every single pro in esports across the globe. Would all of those individuals be responsible for the action of a company they do not own, have no knowledge of their actions, just because they have a little bit of stock in that company or received money for sponsorships from them? Seems like a bunch of salty adults who gambled away their money voluntarily. And is he ostracized really? Lol. But Flash actually hocked this coin? Personally, while not exactly being transparent on many things
Versus this alternate reality where Hot6 causes cancer and uses slave labour. Which isn’t exactly equivalent anyway as sponsoring something players are doing isn’t the same as personally selling snake oil
You’re doing the old ‘well nothing is 100% ethical so why bother?’ thing, and Flash seems to bear zero responsibility but anyone who invested is an idiot who should have done their due diligence according to you
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I am happy if Flash comes back to competitive bw. It will makes tours much more interesting to watch. Whether the public or organisers feel he should not participate, because of his past actions that is totally fine too. I personally think he deserves a chance to redeem himself, but he also has to take responsibility for being involved in a scam.
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WELCOME BACK GOD
please offrace toss for me
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On June 19 2024 17:47 tankgirl wrote:YES ITS HIM
that is beautiful hotkey usage t__________t
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On June 23 2024 18:06 Salazarz wrote: @NoobSkills, if 'grown adults' weren't 'susceptible to marketing strategies' then advertisement wouldn't even exist as a concept. Of course grown adults are susceptible to marketing strategies, that's the whole reason marketing is a thing. Something like a trillion dollars is spent directly on advertisement every year, and that doesn't even include a lot of advertisement-adjacent things.
Whether you like it or not, public figures with a following have a big influence on decisions made by their fans. Silly to pretend otherwise.
Marketing for an item alerts the individual to it's existence. It doesn't suddenly force that individual to buy. Each and every one of those "investors" also saw countless advertisements for cars, trucks, vacations, boats etc etc and they didn't go buy those on a whim. Why didn't they buy that 200k car they saw advertised years before that they loved, but instead chose to "invest" 200k into crpyto? The truth is they're gamblers who were going to gamble anyway.
On June 23 2024 18:12 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2024 14:19 NoobSkills wrote:On June 23 2024 13:47 Mizenhauer wrote:On June 23 2024 11:16 NoobSkills wrote:On June 22 2024 04:31 Miragee wrote:On June 21 2024 06:28 jinjin5000 wrote: I'm pretty surrpised by amount of people who picked flash won't be as dominant
This is exact same argument we saw before he returned if he can really keep up with likes of Bisu and "new meta". I agree. Flash possesses an understanding of the game nobody else does, which is why he will quickly adapt to a new meta and surpass his peers in understanding its intricacies. Of course it will take some time but considering that ASL will likely start in August, I think there is enough time for him. Personally, I am not happy about Flash returning to ASL. Having the whole competition revolving around the idea whether or not anybody might be capable of beating Flash is utterly boring to me. On June 22 2024 03:26 Nirli wrote: This thread was interesting when it was about Flash, the player. Now it's about the people abusing the fact that they have keyboards under their fingers. Go drink a beer boys. Right, it's totally unreasonable for people to discuss their discontent for a popular public figure who missused his popularity to try to scam his own audience. It seems like you really hate him, despite him in reality doing nothing wrong. He was not scamming his audience, unless you can prove he knew the coin was BS and was benefitting off that scam, which you can't and most likely doesn't seem to be the case by any stretch of the imagination. Hilarious to think that grown adults cannot think for themselves and are that easily susceptible to marketing strategies. As for his play in the event, I agree it will be boring to watch him roll the unprofessional players and even the "top" players SCR currently has. The only hope would be if it inspired the lazy players, the current "top", and hopefully even some of the veterans to come back and take it seriously. But given the limited support for SCR and lack of infrastructure in place I'm not sure that happens. Hilarious to think that grown adults (Flash) cannot realize that he would be ostracized as a result of this fraudulent venture. Fraudulent how? In terms of flash, there was no fraud sorry. Again if hot6 were using slave labor and poisoning their clients, and manipulating their stock price, while sponsoring every single pro in esports across the globe. Would all of those individuals be responsible for the action of a company they do not own, have no knowledge of their actions, just because they have a little bit of stock in that company or received money for sponsorships from them? Seems like a bunch of salty adults who gambled away their money voluntarily. And is he ostracized really? Lol. But Flash actually hocked this coin? Personally, while not exactly being transparent on many things Versus this alternate reality where Hot6 causes cancer and uses slave labour. Which isn’t exactly equivalent anyway as sponsoring something players are doing isn’t the same as personally selling snake oil You’re doing the old ‘well nothing is 100% ethical so why bother?’ thing, and Flash seems to bear zero responsibility but anyone who invested is an idiot who should have done their due diligence according to you
I thought that a couple things said he didn't sell? Regardless either way if he did is that really his responsibility to alert people to what he does with his finances? And why does he NEED to be transparent with his financials or if he was a sort of "startup" investor in the coin? Nobody else worldwide is under any sort of obligation to do so are they?
And yes I agree the hot6 comparison isn't fully accurate but I cannot find specifically the same scenario existing, but in that situation there is the same monetary implications. Where hot6 the brand was manipulating stock prices to screw people and capitalizing on inside information. But regardless the person participating in the advertising campaign also would have had no clue. And if he sold just to sell long before any issues were known about of which he had no idea they even existed I'm not sure how you can leap to blame that individual, instead of the scammer themself and the company.
I'm not doing any old bit. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what he did as an individual. Nothing unethical, illegal, or morally. If he knew the coin was a scam, if he pretended like it couldn't fail, if he said to the moon, etc etc I could see you point but that isn't the case right?
And yes, in the certain circumstance of a crypto or a NFT or any weird meme type of investment you're literally gambling with any single one of them. If you didn't do any sort of independent research about it before spending your hard earned money that is indeed on you, especially in the sense that it exists no where.
I seriously still don't get how anyone can hold him ethically responsible for others individual choices, ESPECIALLY in the scenario where he knew of no wrong doing and honestly wasn't even that good of a salesmen from his own words.
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United States9727 Posts
Comparing someone who is advertising some random product like gfuel, hot6, hell a car or whatever is not the same as advertising for a stock/crypto/etc where the intention of the advertisement is that it's going to be a pump and dump, or even in general, when financial advice is much more serious and held to a higher standard than simply advertising a consumer product. (The same goes for unsolicited legal advice by the way which is why lawyers are very careful when friends come asking for help or advice on a legal issue to not be giving them legal advice without an adequate relationship). Investments vs mere consumerism are not the same and should not be treated the same. Which is why there is more regulation placed upon our financial markets than there is in advertising any ordinary product. Key example is RoaringKitty/DFV and his GME saga (part 2 happening right now).
I don't particularly have a side in this, I just want to see my favorite player return and play some good Starcraft, moral questions aside. But this line of argumentation from Noobskills is suspect at best.
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On June 25 2024 00:55 FlaShFTW wrote: Comparing someone who is advertising some random product like gfuel, hot6, hell a car or whatever is not the same as advertising for a stock/crypto/etc where the intention of the advertisement is that it's going to be a pump and dump, or even in general, when financial advice is much more serious and held to a higher standard than simply advertising a consumer product. (The same goes for unsolicited legal advice by the way which is why lawyers are very careful when friends come asking for help or advice on a legal issue to not be giving them legal advice without an adequate relationship). Investments vs mere consumerism are not the same and should not be treated the same. Which is why there is more regulation placed upon our financial markets than there is in advertising any ordinary product. Key example is RoaringKitty/DFV and his GME saga (part 2 happening right now).
I don't particularly have a side in this, I just want to see my favorite player return and play some good Starcraft, moral questions aside. But this line of argumentation from Noobskills is suspect at best.
Anyone of those companies (though unlikely) could be doing some sort of pump/dump or stock manipulation tactic as well. Also it either goes one way or the other. Either the coin is equal to a stock or it is equal to a piece of inventory, but either way I still don't think someone hired by a company to promote the company is responsible for that company's actions when they knew nothing about it. As for one entity having more or less regulation I'm not sure I buy that one is clearly leading. As for the GME stock it is far more perverse of a situation than the one with Flash.
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Today our foreign warrior Dewalt matched FlaSh two times on ladder!
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On June 25 2024 18:58 earob84 wrote: Today our foreign warrior Dewalt matched FlaSh two times on ladder!
That's so cool!
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On June 25 2024 19:47 ThunderJunk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2024 18:58 earob84 wrote: Today our foreign warrior Dewalt matched FlaSh two times on ladder! That's so cool!
what happened?
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On June 25 2024 05:55 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2024 00:55 FlaShFTW wrote: Comparing someone who is advertising some random product like gfuel, hot6, hell a car or whatever is not the same as advertising for a stock/crypto/etc where the intention of the advertisement is that it's going to be a pump and dump, or even in general, when financial advice is much more serious and held to a higher standard than simply advertising a consumer product. (The same goes for unsolicited legal advice by the way which is why lawyers are very careful when friends come asking for help or advice on a legal issue to not be giving them legal advice without an adequate relationship). Investments vs mere consumerism are not the same and should not be treated the same. Which is why there is more regulation placed upon our financial markets than there is in advertising any ordinary product. Key example is RoaringKitty/DFV and his GME saga (part 2 happening right now).
I don't particularly have a side in this, I just want to see my favorite player return and play some good Starcraft, moral questions aside. But this line of argumentation from Noobskills is suspect at best. Anyone of those companies (though unlikely) could be doing some sort of pump/dump or stock manipulation tactic as well. Also it either goes one way or the other. Either the coin is equal to a stock or it is equal to a piece of inventory, but either way I still don't think someone hired by a company to promote the company is responsible for that company's actions when they knew nothing about it. As for one entity having more or less regulation I'm not sure I buy that one is clearly leading. As for the GME stock it is far more perverse of a situation than the one with Flash. (1) there's a difference between advertising a soda product where the company is shady behind closed doors vs advertising shadyness itself (2) don't advertise for things if you don't know what they are. especially financial/legal 'things'. you have a moral obligation to not be a jerk.
Both of these are so obvious that its clear you're arguing in bad faith and I shouldn't take this trollbait, but oh my god man...
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On June 26 2024 03:31 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2024 05:55 NoobSkills wrote:On June 25 2024 00:55 FlaShFTW wrote: Comparing someone who is advertising some random product like gfuel, hot6, hell a car or whatever is not the same as advertising for a stock/crypto/etc where the intention of the advertisement is that it's going to be a pump and dump, or even in general, when financial advice is much more serious and held to a higher standard than simply advertising a consumer product. (The same goes for unsolicited legal advice by the way which is why lawyers are very careful when friends come asking for help or advice on a legal issue to not be giving them legal advice without an adequate relationship). Investments vs mere consumerism are not the same and should not be treated the same. Which is why there is more regulation placed upon our financial markets than there is in advertising any ordinary product. Key example is RoaringKitty/DFV and his GME saga (part 2 happening right now).
I don't particularly have a side in this, I just want to see my favorite player return and play some good Starcraft, moral questions aside. But this line of argumentation from Noobskills is suspect at best. Anyone of those companies (though unlikely) could be doing some sort of pump/dump or stock manipulation tactic as well. Also it either goes one way or the other. Either the coin is equal to a stock or it is equal to a piece of inventory, but either way I still don't think someone hired by a company to promote the company is responsible for that company's actions when they knew nothing about it. As for one entity having more or less regulation I'm not sure I buy that one is clearly leading. As for the GME stock it is far more perverse of a situation than the one with Flash. (1) there's a difference between advertising a soda product where the company is shady behind closed doors vs advertising shadyness itself (2) don't advertise for things if you don't know what they are. especially financial/legal 'things'. you have a moral obligation to not be a jerk. Both of these are so obvious that its clear you're arguing in bad faith and I shouldn't take this trollbait, but oh my god man...
1. How would someone hired for a marketing campaign know that either company was shady? Be it the soda company or the coin company? Do you think that everyone who promotes hot6 knows ANYTHING about the company? Again they're just an example no issue with hot6. You said "advertising shadyness itself" but again if he didn't know, just like most hired marketing personal don't know, how would that fall under that categorization?
2. There are plenty of people advertising things they don't know what they are lmfao. Do you think everyone knows how that car is built? How that soda was made? How their intel/amd/razer/acer/asus/MSI etc piece of esports hardware was made? It is hilarious if you assume they do when I would venture almost none of them have any idea.
The best part if your claim of bad faith lol. As if you holding him to a higher standard than anyone else who has been used in a marketing campaign is the only bad faith argument made in this post.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Finally! Knowing Flash, I expect he'll make a deep run in the upcoming ASL then win the next if history is any indication. As for the crypto scam, based on everything I've read, I never came across any indication that he knew it was a pump and dump, only that he invested in it and told other streamers about it. Was it a smart idea to do any promotion? Probably not, but I tend to agree with jinjin that it was likely an ego thing.
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