FlaSh allegedly returning to StarCraft - Page 9

On July 04 2024 06:02 Timebon3s wrote:
Yay finally!

Who gives a fuck about the stupid cryptoshit anyway. I'm here for broodwar, and I could not care less about what these n00bs do on their spare time ROFL.

Welcome back FLASH! Let's GOOOOOOOO

On July 04 2024 14:32 ThunderJunk wrote:


Could you recommend a nightly proleague that I could find and keep up with? I've always been an ASL guy, plus a few streams. I don't know about nightly proleagues.

Honestly, I really do miss the KESPA days - even though it was brutal on the players, that's when it was all being taken VERY seriously. That got me sitting up straight. It got me caring. Watching the shifting TLPD rankings. Reading the great works - the Power Rank. Praise be to they who made the Power Rank. That was really amazing stuff.

On July 04 2024 12:54 darktreb wrote:
Did Flash get lucky during his random run? Of course he did. Flash would be lucky to win his first seven games in ASL even as Terran.

But are we really coming all the way around to discrediting the run, just because NoobSkills doesn't know anything and keeps making terrible arguments? That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Some noob can keep making bad and wrong arguments for something, and still accidentally be right about some of it (obviously some of what's being said by NoobSkills is just borderline objectively wrong).

Flash's random tournament was a great run, and great entertainment for most. If you don't like seeing something that's never been tried before, in a 20+ year old game, well you probably shouldn't be watching ASL. It's already composed of a lot of "RNG bullshit". Everything from bracket luck to crazy maps that are arguably no better than RNG in effect. That's half the *fun* of ASL.

Fortunately there's plenty of nightly proleague style stuff going on so it's not like we're forced to choose.

Overall, it just seems silly the degree to which the pendulum is swinging here just because of one clueless poster. Just goes to show that the best way to discredit a player is to make a bunch of terrible arguments *for* them (kind of like what TMNT does all the time for Snow ).

Snow was ahead in that game. Sorry that you feel otherwise, he just got beat by a decision. Even losing probes he had better mining, more probes, and more supply. And would have had a greater lead if he didn't make that choice.

On July 04 2024 17:01 TMNT wrote:


It's not that I feel. It objectively is a fact. Here's the exact point before that last engagement in that game, okay:

+ Show Spoiler +

Many people got this game wrong. At this point Flash had 14 Goons on the map, plus 2 Reavers in a Shuttle. . While Snow had 10 Goons on the map, and 2 in his base watching for a drop. At this point, Snow's Robo was still building lol. And you can also see the supplies were almost equal. Snow wasn't ahead, and he was on 2 bases, hence his army was smaller.

And why he didn't have a Robo until 10 min into the game? Because of the BO loss he took at the beginning, which he would have never taken had he knew Flash was Protoss.

Any PvP specialist here can confirm that 12 Goons don't beat 14 Goons + 2 Reavers? Even if all of his Goons were at that nat defending this, he'd 90% lose anyway. Unless Flash played like a D rank and grabbed 2 Reavers and flied into 10 Goons lol.

On July 04 2024 09:44 NoobSkills wrote:
He was behind 8ISH seconds (flying time) due to the pool. He was behind another 12 seconds due to the fact that he didn't have minerals to go up to Lair, because he made the hatch before that. If you need me to grab you a stopwatch I can. And while that extra 8ish seconds does mean something because they were close spawn, the additional 12 meant more. But hey sure, soma couldn't beat an amateur zerg player by simply out muta microing him with even numbers right?

It does not matter how other scenarios MIGHT have worked out, they were at the same pacing.

You keep talking about a ton of other what if's that didn't happen in this match. He wasn't met by a terran or protoss, he was met by an amateur zerg player who beat him to lair by a massive time frame because he didn't make a hatch before spire in close positions. Decision making, not BO.

On July 04 2024 17:01 TMNT wrote:


It's not that I feel. It objectively is a fact. Here's the exact point before that last engagement in that game, okay:

+ Show Spoiler +

Many people got this game wrong. At this point Flash had 14 Goons on the map, plus 2 Reavers in a Shuttle. . While Snow had 10 Goons on the map, and 2 in his base watching for a drop. At this point, Snow's Robo was still building lol. And you can also see the supplies were almost equal. Snow wasn't ahead, and he was on 2 bases, hence his army was smaller.

And why he didn't have a Robo until 10 min into the game? Because of the BO loss he took at the beginning, which he would have never taken had he knew Flash was Protoss.

Any PvP specialist here can confirm that 12 Goons don't beat 14 Goons + 2 Reavers? Even if all of his Goons were at that nat defending this, he'd 90% lose anyway. Unless Flash played like a D rank and grabbed 2 Reavers and flied into 10 Goons lol.

On July 05 2024 01:49 TMNT wrote:
Now to get back to this point since I have some time:

No it doesn't work like that. You really lack understanding of the matchup. They weren't at the same pace at all.

To be as precise as possible: Flash started Lair at 02:11, Soma finished Pool at 02:28 while also had 100 gas. So if he banked mineral to make Lair immediately, he'd be 17s late anyway. The travel distance between them is about 10s. So in that case Flash would have free feast on the Drones for 7s no matter what (assuming Soma only made Mutas). That's already bad enough.

But you also forget to take into account the distance between Soma's main and nat. You made the wrong assumption that all of Soma's Mutas would pop at the same place and then they would be on even army. No, all of Flash's army would be in one place waiting for whatever about to pop out of the larvae, basically shutting down 1 base and killing everything popping out there.

In BW mirror matchups you don't do catch up build like that, especially when the rush distance is short. If you copy your opponent's build with a delay, you'll forever be behind. If Soma banked minerals to build Lair there, then his 2nd Hatch and 2nd Gas would also be later than Flash, which means his army size could never catchup with Flash, because the most important resources in ZvZ are Larvae and Gas. It's even more profound on Plasma since you don't make Lings on this map.

Finally, don't you think that if the solution in that situation is simply to build a Lair asap and play catch up with Flash, then one of the best Zergs in the world in Soma would know? Right? A noob like you can figure it out, but Soma didn't. How is that possible? The thought process behind building the 2nd Hatch first, then Lair (it was 7s delay compared to Lair first, not 12s like you claimed) is to have more access to Larvae and Gas, so there's a chance to catch up with Flash in army, despite inevitably losing some drones and units. Not that it should work, mind. That or Lair first, either way he's fucked. As you can see in the end even when Flash messed up his micro badly (Mutas didn't even shoot), it didn't matter because his army was superior in both size and positioning.

On July 05 2024 08:01 NoobSkills wrote:
So, you're talking about when flash got to engage half the army, not having to deal with the rally/canon. I'd imagine in almost 99% of PvP's if you let half of your army get trapped you lose regardless, but sure he was "behind". I wonder what would have happened if he didn't feel the need on two base, to not only have the more efficient economy 8 minutes later, but needed a big probe lead too. It couldn't have been a mistake to over focus on eco when his opponent was being that aggressive off one base right? It was a stemming build order issue that made him make additional probes and not focus on tech or more army, despite already having the economic lead.

On July 05 2024 08:01 NoobSkills wrote:

Flashs main to Somas natural was more like 13 seconds. Imagine if time were shaved on when the mutas popped, worst case scenario is 3v4 mutas. At that point split glaives and a closer rally. He would have had the same pop of mutas flash did, even if SLIGHTLY delayed off the same build. And there is no chance his muta micro could carry even or near even muta counts right? I mean simply impossible for a professional who has played 1000's of ZvZ's to out muta micro a Terran player.

You're trying so hard to make everything luck or BO based. And I'm not denying it played a part, but it is also a cope for mistakes made by players. Or what you're claiming is that random and BO wins suddenly take out all of the skill of these games and these pro players are so stuck at that point that they cannot compete. But if that is the case, considering flash's level of ability at the other races, why aren't more pros doing the same thing? I mean it is such an advantage, you could take any lesser pro and they'd do much better because going random and whatever build order you commit to will always be a BO win according to you. Easy ASLs for Speed coming soon.

On July 05 2024 15:28 Bonyth wrote:
Great, finally we agreed that there was a BO lead for Flash.
The discussion comes down to how much the build order impacts the chances for win. For ones it's a value close to 100%, for others it's a value closer to 10%. Good luck convincing one another )

On July 04 2024 18:25 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
If you think about it the only thing FlaSh hasnt been lucky is with this crypto thing. He is always been a guy with the golden touch. Wathever he does is sucessful lol. There is not doubt that there was a lot of luck involved in that Random run he did.
But there was a lot of skill involved too. I mean ofc there is . You just dont play ASL as random and go that far. Random give you advantage if you are good with all the races. Look at Bishop. He tried this random thing and didnt go far at all. Is Flash protoss better than Snow Bisu or Mini ? No . Is FlaSh zerg better than Soma Larva Queen ? Is not. Do you know what is better tho ? Preparation. I dont think there is a player that prepares for every single situation like FlaSh. Anyway remember that game vs Jaedong where flash trick Jaedong into commiting to attack a siege tank close to his ramp and Jaedong loss a won game just for that ? Bro is different really.

On July 05 2024 19:05 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:


Bishop picked though. Bishop did not select random In lobby. he picked a race in lobby. He just entered the tournameng as random because he played all races.