EX pro from a bygone era when the game played different... and it wasn't due to advances in modern strategy, it was because of effective APM, and some patches breaking units.... I'm gonna ruffle feathers, but just bear with me... I'm just looking for a map maker expert to help me make a Broodwar patch to unlock a whole new golden way of playing Starcraft.
Some background about me... I've been gaming non stop since 1980 pacman at age 3, coding non stop since age 4 on TI-99... I'm like that guy from Ready Player One who made the Vr land, I care about the games, not the money. A quarter in my hand tho, it brings back memories of the arcades, a place I want to bring back someday even if it isn't profitable... Blizzard was going to hire me to do Starcraft2 back in the day, and World of Warcraft harder mode, remix servers (to make rares and legendaries matter), but you know Blizzard has a culture change and ran off their originals like Geoff Fraizer and such... The exclusionary culture came in with the disguise of inclusion so I didn't get the job, they actually cancelled my interview and went with people with less experience...At that time I was the only person #1 world in three different Blizzard ladders: Starcraft/Broodwar/Diablo2HC(3 dif characters world experience)/Warcraft3 #1 1v1,2v2,3v3,4v4 and 200-0 in 3v3. Anyway enough about me, lets talk about why I'm asking for a pal to help me do a Broodwar patch...
Everyone knows the flaws of Starcraft2 1v1 by now... The poor designers Dustin Browder and David Kim wanted pro games to not be over in 4 minutes to a 4 pool, so they gave way too much base defense... This impenetrable base defense meant you couldn't just attack with 12 lings, 3 zealots or 6 marines and 3scv, and have a chance of winning... In fact if you did that and they defended, you lost... So Starcraft2 made rushing to keep your opponent in check as not an option.. Since no one is in check, people often 2-4 base expanded and sometimes rushed to tier 2 or 3. Nathanias and I both agreed by playing turtle Terran, one of the best strategies was just to overlap siege tanks, and then mine out the whole board by getting one more base than your opponent you starve em out after an hour and 20 minutes... Super boring, but super effective... Browder and Kim made terrible terrible mistakes for the long term viability of SC2 1v1, while SC2 2v2 was kinda tolerable... Ignoring how straight unfun-annoying lots of SC2 units were, the base defense invalidating a rush to check your opponent, invalidated it from being a true Starcraft... People who played Starcraft2... Sorry, it's not real Starcraft, it's just rock paper scissors that took 17 minutes to resolve... It let lots of people claim they're Starcraft players, but it's a trash game for casuals who bears no resemblence to a real Starcraft game where a rush keeps your opponent in check so they can't just take three bases and get t3 for free. Sorry to break it to lots of people, Starcraft2 1v1 is for casuals. Look I said this would ruffle feathers, lets continue....
So I have been sitting on a game called Rushcraft for years which is Starcraft2 with lots of gimmick units reworked, and it plays how you think Starcraft2 SHOULD HAVE BEEN, but I stalled out since I couldn't find out how to port in a Reaver. The Starcraft2 world editor UI looked like it was written by a masochist designed to give the user the most messed up experience... But I know it'd be easy for someone to help me port in a Reaver... Rushcraft play tests awesome, but if Protoss gets hemmed in on a ramp with bunkers, it doesn't have siege yet... So I need Reavers to continue play testing.
Question 1: Anyone in Map editing land know how to port in a Starcraft1 Revear into a Starcraft2 mod, and can you help me personally?
Now lead up to Question2:
Broodwar and Starcraft are not the same now as they were in 98/99... And I feel the game lost a lot of the skill as a result. Fast speed allows for more effective APM... A standardized map size means long distances do not allow Zerg to compensate on its power macro and rushing keeps everyone in check from opening with bs rock/paper/scissor strats. I always loved the group of marines vs zealots vs lings... But when people discovered spider cannon BS on vultures, everyone skip techs marines and zealots vs marines...
Broodwar patch ideas: [Remember I'm a statistician genius and the reason I get #1 in every game I play is I abuse numbers, I'm one of the best game balancers in the world as a result, making fun of RIOT when they change LOL characters and I tell them the exact win % of their mistakes. So don't knee jerk that changing one thing will make another race dominate, I do play testing and polish to get everything working fine. This is my life. I wouldn't be #1 world in so many Blizzard games if I just luck box guessed strategy as so many do when they get #1 and never get another #1 world.]
#1 Spider mines(aka spider rockets) should dig in slower, and arm slower, so a single dragon could take it out if armed in its face. It's a hidden mine, not a rocket.
#2: Medics should not be able to heal a unit that's taken damage in the past 5 seconds... In Starcraft before broodwar, I'd micro hurt marines back to bunkers where they'd man turrets and it was effective. It'd be effective to make medics to heal these guys who make it back to base or into the back lines.
#3: Wraiths/Scouts could use +1 ATG, and +1 ATG ups. Wraiths and Scouts were OVER nerfed in the start of Starcraft because you could stack so many in one place, you'd win fights on edges vs ranged units. Its been 26 years man, lets dial it back a bit.
#4: Hydrolisks deal 100% damage to mutas, without changing anything else for now. In Starcraft2, one thing they did right was to allow hydrolisks to deal 100% to mutas... Otherwise whoever gets to t3 is just more mobile AND more powerful. I mean it's fun for me to hang with the modern crew in zvz by getting to muta and hotkeying 4-8 scourge to micro into muta wars and win games... But hydra should be an option.
#5: Give marines/scv a teeny bit more hp... You'll not be skip teching to vultures, these guys need to be beefy to hold vs aggressive ling/zealot rushers of modern times. I'm thinking scv 3-7 hp and marines 1-4... This would come out in play testing.
#6: More casual detection. Protoss Nexus providing detection. Terran scanners providing energy refunds when scanning on the same screen as the command center itself.
#7: Valkyries actually dealing ATA damage, not just shooting for no effect at all.
There's a couple other points I forget because this has been in design for over a decade and I been coding video games like Starfighter General and playing dumb League of Legends... You know Todd Cadwell took my idea I gave Blizzard to beat 1999 win trading & hacking in Battle.net called Player Policing and rebranded it as Player Tribunal with a patent... You can't patent an idea given to you,but they did... Anyway... RIOT also has a patent on RIGGING MATCH MAKING KNOWN AS LOSER Q, so last 10,000 games I played, 8,000 of em, my team did trash and lost while I mostly won lane or broke even. League of Legends is such a trash game... You don't gotta rig games China with your patent: www.crystalfighter.com/a.html The only winning move is not to play and why I'm thinking of belting out a patch for Broodwar and Starcraft2, but only if I can get the help of a map editor...
I've blown up communities before, everyone arguing me being wrong like Nethack vs Angband, then years later everyone says I'm right.
In RTS, its bad game design if people skip tech from a low tier unit to a high tier unit... Trust me, marine/ zealots dueling again will be fun. We make map sizes standardized for this mode, and I'm playing it on fast because having more effective APM is my jam... The faster the game actually has less skill because imagine if the game was 100000000x faster, you'd a move your workers and win... So I call this a patch, but it's new modes of playing SC1 an SC2 that are more like the old ways of playing due to units, maps, speed of game... A lot of how people play today with balancing micro with macro is how I played back in 99, XDs Grr who went to Korea barely knew the basics of managing a lead with macro/micro so he never won vs me. There's literally no one who has certain eclectic game knowledge of the game/patches like I do... So I can help the community if anyone knows a map editor friend who can help me with a Broodwar patch or Starcraft2 patch... It will only add the the whole community, I'm a professional game designer/coder/gamer, I'm for the game, not the $$$. I'm for the love of people and love of the game, and lots of people don't understand that...
Anyone know some map editor friends who would be interested in meeting me online or just chatting it up in email?
Safety is an illusion, pray up, James Sager III aka CrazyJim
OOps, the league of legends discussion about loser q PATENT is here; www.crystalfighter.com/x.html the link I gave above is the proof it's me page, which is lame, but everyone today will call you a liar without knowing you.
well what can i say. U're not exactly incorrect, as in this game would be fine with some new patches*
*if it wasn't for the fact that this game hasn't been patched for many many years, and currently the holy sacredness of a finished game > any (il)logical changes
I have no problem with "fast" over "fastest" for gaming speed and agree with what you are saying. However, the mining speed for workers is wayyyyy to slow on "fast". If workers moved faster during mining routes so they mine at the fastest rate, it'd be all for it.
That was a wild read... Seconding bisudagger point that if workers mined the same at fast and fastest speed, fast would actually be quite decent, even if only restricted for teaching/learning purposes or goofy tournaments
CrazyJim strikes again! I remember playing the original Battle.Net ladder (2001-2003?) where fast was the only speed you could play, and even back then, it was way too slow. The average game length was easily doubled, maybe even tripled. Everyone lagged and everyone disconnected when they lost.
Probably the most narcissistic post ive ever read. Were/Are you second in anything?
And your changes makes 0 sense.
Offensive mines arent as strong as you make it sound, showing you know nothing about the game. Micro makes offensive mines in most cases useless. Also its one of the more fun parts about the game.
Marines would die in an instant if they didnt get insta healing. They still are vulnerable when moving as medics cant keep up with stimmed rines.
Wraiths and Scouts are fine. Micro make em good, adding some dmg would only make em stronger and probably not noticeable stronger seeing as micro is what make em strong.
Hydralisk doing 10 dmg to muta would make ZvZ a shitshow, but im not a Z player so wouldnt matter for me.
Marines/SCV more HP? Thats crazy. SCV already the strongest defense you have and rines are so poweful once you get a few. Once again you know nothing about the game. You played with numbers instead of microing.
Detection never been an issue, dont see why that would need a buff.
Valks one of the strongest AA in the game and you wanna buff em. Whats wrong with you 😂
On January 23 2024 02:15 WGT-Baal wrote: That was a wild read... Seconding bisudagger point that if workers mined the same at fast and fastest speed, fast would actually be quite decent, even if only restricted for teaching/learning purposes or goofy tournaments
We can already do this, you can place the minerals/gas closer in the first base to speed up the game start.
I doubt the 2/3 base case needs a mining boost since you can just have more patches
Yea I bet you are a gosu video game coder, if you cannot even implement the Reaver into a SC2 mod, while the Reaver is already a fully playable and integrated unit in the single player campaign of SC2. lmao..
I respect your achievements in the early days of brood war... but..
Do you still play the game?
The game is played in such a high standard these days (mainly by Koreans) that I don't think your points about "spider rockets" and "fast" speed are valid anymore
On January 23 2024 03:19 MeSaber wrote: Scouts are fine
...
Conclusion: Play more, speak less.
You should take your own advice. Did you confuse scouts with corsairs or carriers?
I guess you dont play this game either if you say scouts arent strong.
Whatever wraiths can do, scouts do better.
Also i dont follow the comparison against carrier/sair.
Sair cant attack ground and carrier's a meme.
Scout > sair/carrier.
Nobody uses scouts, you just came up with reasons that don't matter. We see corsairs almost every game vs. Zerg and carriers every other game vs. Terran
Can you tell Bisu your scout theory so he can win ASL?
I unironically would prefer zvz if hydras did full damage to mutas. It'd become a pretty awesome matchup then.
Completely, completely different though, perhaps the most turtly of all matchups. Broodling would be an essential spell - dark swarm+lurkers absolutely destroy everything zerg has except a) broodling and b) ultras, and ultras are, obviously, also hard countered by broodling.
I mean tbh mutas would still be viable in certain scenarios, but more the way they're used in zvp.
Honestly I'd rather just custom the map for zerg by removing a geyser from possible expansions if you wanted to encourage hydra play - have it be a zvz only map.
While we're flexing our genetically superior brain matter about it - what would broodwar look like if maps were designed around bases with fewer resources - 9 patches containing only 750 each. And add turtle island elements to keep zerg in check - like a map with 16 bases but a lot of them are island bases and all the bases only have 750 minerals per patch.
At that point you could have some really cool dynamics with 3 mineral patches in random, contestable zones and the contests would feel fresh and imminently important because resources would be relatively scant unless you went up to 20 or 24 bases, at which point it's a question of how many geysers you allow on a map like that - with experimentation opportunities from the various options of heavy loading some geysers in dangerous contestable locations.
Indeed, I would actually be willing to sponsor the creation of three pro-quality maps with the above idea implemented at a total price of $2000 - contingent on someone being able to have these maps used in a tournament - which I would need to fund, but which I don't have the capital to spend more than $5000 on. If someone was to organize the tournament on such a shoe-string budget, I would happily formalize my demands in a written contract and see to it that the American Thunderleague can host the best players outside of Korea. But I lack the contacts to make such a dream a reality. All I have is this small amount of semi-disposable capital and the desire to see it done.
On January 25 2024 08:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: I unironically would prefer zvz if hydras did full damage to mutas. It'd become a pretty awesome matchup then.
Completely, completely different though, perhaps the most turtly of all matchups. Broodling would be an essential spell - dark swarm+lurkers absolutely destroy everything zerg has except a) broodling and b) ultras, and ultras are, obviously, also hard countered by broodling.
I mean tbh mutas would still be viable in certain scenarios, but more the way they're used in zvp.
It would be enough if spores were buffed. Even a +1 attack and faster upgrade speed would let people drone in somewhat peace if you could get spores up whenever they start to try to take them out. Like if you made two spores and they kill one it's really hard to expand coverage again because of the slow build time
I don't know if hydra doing full muta damage is possible. But a hydra tier 3 transition would be more likely if your spores were stronger and built faster.
On January 25 2024 12:18 ThunderJunk wrote: Honestly I'd rather just custom the map for zerg by removing a geyser from possible expansions if you wanted to encourage hydra play - have it be a zvz only map.
While we're flexing our genetically superior brain matter about it - what would broodwar look like if maps were designed around bases with fewer resources - 9 patches containing only 1,500 each. And add turtle island elements to keep zerg in check - like a map with 16 bases but a lot of them are island bases and all the bases only have 1,500 minerals per patch.
1500 is the standard amount per patch so i am not understanding your post.
The old ladder map rivalry has no gas at natural, maybe there are a few zvz replays.Whether there is anything recent on it is another thing.
On January 25 2024 12:18 ThunderJunk wrote: Honestly I'd rather just custom the map for zerg by removing a geyser from possible expansions if you wanted to encourage hydra play - have it be a zvz only map.
While we're flexing our genetically superior brain matter about it - what would broodwar look like if maps were designed around bases with fewer resources - 9 patches containing only 1,500 each. And add turtle island elements to keep zerg in check - like a map with 16 bases but a lot of them are island bases and all the bases only have 1,500 minerals per patch.
1500 is the standard amount per patch so i am not understanding your post.
The old ladder map rivalry has no gas at natural, maybe there are a few zvz replays.Whether there is anything recent on it is another thing.
While in range of the Arbiter's cloaking ability, the unit being rendered invisible is relaying the psychrononautic manipulations thereof, flooding the psyche of the foreign beholder with whatever signals it requires to sensorially blend it in with the surroundings.
Observers, science vessels, comsat sweeps and turrets inhibit this relaying, not the manipulations per se, through area analysis and divergence-from-norm report through com-link, to be visualized via guidance systems' inherent cybernetic-augmenting-of-reality, digitally. What about overlords, though?
On January 22 2024 17:08 Bonyth wrote: well what can i say. U're not exactly incorrect, as in this game would be fine with some new patches*
*if it wasn't for the fact that this game hasn't been patched for many many years, and currently the holy sacredness of a finished game > any (il)logical changes
Believe it or not, I'm the author of Angband's Squelch command...
Angband and NetHack are like Kirk vs Picard... You argue, but you don't change em or write them.
Just because something is acceptable and awesome, doesn't mean you can't make it better. Don't mess with perfection is only a thing for things that can be broken... If I make a patch and it sucks, I don't hurt the game... But if I add depth by reviving the tier 1 units and adding micro depth... Then hey, if people like it, they do... The former is a loss for me, but not for the community. The later is a gain for the community and a gain for the community is a gain for me, since I just like playing games.
On January 22 2024 17:10 Unco wrote: my favorite part is giving the marines 4 more hp so the zealots will need to attack three times instead of three times to kill them
Yes. I'm aware of this... That's why I said 1-4(a range)... I was handwaving a buff, from the weakening of vultures. This is how designers do it... They know what needs changed, and then they start to mitigate the ripple effect.
On January 23 2024 03:01 Nirli wrote: Blizzard, please hire this man. What do you think about switching Scout ground vs air and vice versa for balance?
Believe it or not I was a shoe in to a job. They had me flying in to Irvine Cali for a shoe in for a position as game designer.
My 3v3 partner CrazyAssassin of Warcraft3 fame got an interview and he had no programming experience. We were 200-0 in 3v3, no other team in video game history I think has this level of success on an NA ladder, maybe no sports team either...
Meanwhile I coded non stop since age 4 in 1981. And I was in talks with Blizzard on balancing The Frozen Throne. I'm the brain behind lowering gold so it's less PVE and gives a reason to attack their base. ROC was all competitive pacman. My lowered gold change actually did the desired effect. I could have helped them much more, like getting rid of the neutral tavern, or weird neutral creeps, but I was busy writing my own MMORPG code at the time.
I had big ideas for Starcraft2 and I wanted to make World of Warcraft hardcore remixes that were very very hard so your rares and epic mattered.
What end up happening with Blizzard did a restructuring, and stopped hiring people of faith... This discrimination of faith is often hand in hand with discrimination of women... Which you saw they lost a lawsuit in.
So they passed over my resume with 20,000+ hrs coding to interview someone who's never coded before in his life. This is actually in the law books to convict companies for 1960s civil rights discrimination laws...
Big Tech's more about politics than skill, and the games you see today are a result of that.
As for scouts, I think they serve a purpose in ATA vs capital ships, but their ATG is just too weak to skip tech and use them for effective harassment purposes.
On January 23 2024 06:20 Puosu wrote: but do you play BW today?
I popped in around 2005 and again like 2012 or so... If I got ZVZ I got around B or so on ICCUp without even trying... I don't like it though... The fastest speed noobs up the game... There's tactics pros don't use today that pros used in 1998-99 because the fast speed allowed em... Like microing your initial group of tier 1s into orderly flanking positions. Drawing back scvs one at a time, while you healed em with others, making sure they don't die to the last hit... The very surgical play we did back then, is lost to more rapdily resolved combat and general strats... I always saw fastest as a cop out for players who couldn't do the detailed fine weave intelligent-micro of a top APM fast player.
On January 24 2024 02:34 chrisolo wrote: Yea I bet you are a gosu video game coder, if you cannot even implement the Reaver into a SC2 mod, while the Reaver is already a fully playable and integrated unit in the single player campaign of SC2. lmao..
Let me tell you a story...
In Elementary School, I am sure they teach you how to tell time. You know how to tell time analog and digital. I bet you're the very model of a modern major general time reader... But then you buy a Japanese truck.. The clock is off by an hour. How do you set the clock? Do you turn the cruise control on? Do you flip the gearshift? Do you change the station on the radio? Things like that were common, so if you know how to tell time, how can you not change the clock? You have to read the mind of a Japanese Engineer... BOOM, counter-Roasted.
This does not mean I like to spend my luxury time reading tech documents... Anyone know a map editor guy to help or have the map editor discord? If you knew how bad SC2's world editor was you'd know.
On January 24 2024 06:39 HaFnium wrote: I respect your achievements in the early days of brood war... but..
Do you still play the game?
The game is played in such a high standard these days (mainly by Koreans) that I don't think your points about "spider rockets" and "fast" speed are valid anymore
You present a moderate amount of dragoons vs vultures. As the dragoon amounts scale vs vultures, of course advantage would be had. I'm talking the VERY start, people can skip marines because an early vulture can cover for that lack of defense often.
Skipping tech to get an anchor defensive unit is often a sign of bad game design.
Proper RTS design means you don't want players almost always skipping tier 1 tech.
Marines+SCV vs lings vs Zealots was the bomb... For you guys to play the game and this to be skipped past most games is quite lame. Yes, I watch games, and you don't see marines being made if an opportunity to skip tech to vultures is presented. I don't like this, as a game designer and appreciator of what BW/SC was in older days, it irks me.
On January 25 2024 08:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: I unironically would prefer zvz if hydras did full damage to mutas. It'd become a pretty awesome matchup then.
Thanks. Most people trashing me, don't understand just how intricate the game was before it got dumbed down with fastest and the spider cannon exploits were found in the early 2000s. I'm a game designer and just like listening to movie directors explain a movie vs a kid who watches a movie... Some people don't get the details.
On January 25 2024 12:18 ThunderJunk wrote: Honestly I'd rather just custom the map for zerg
No doubt, the map design is KEY.
I think the best map of all time was River Styx... Small, yet had more than one way to the opponent via chokes... Air routes...
The only thing a bit lame was the back expansion of Styx was too easily defended and too worth.
All maps have to be consistently small. All maps have to have the SAME challenge for Zerg's Fast Expand. All maps need the same rush distance to that fast expand. After that, you can be radical... Just don't be like discovery where you can lift a rax and make marines behind their mineral line, lol. Discovery would be an almost okay map if not for that size wise at least.
The concept you have of mutas being relevant despite hydras dealing full power is reasonable to care about the map... It doesn't just have to be an island bombardment back for workers to be slain on harass... There could be lots of cliffs and chokes where muta stacking can win even vs a superior number of hydras.
None of those changes sound good and telling to slow game to fast speed was the icing the cake: this isn't 1999 anymore brother. But as you wish, I mean what stops you from making your own mod? For a coder like you making a mod for non remastered version should be childs game.
EPT
