EPTRapidCasting is back in BSL - Page 5
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G5
United States2921 Posts
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prosatan
Romania8547 Posts
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1528 Posts
On December 11 2023 15:56 prosatan wrote: maybe rapid can cast some games when we celebrate 26 years of starcraft 26 years of starcraft 5? ^_._^ | ||
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ShadPro
Poland28 Posts
If so, why is anyone trying to play the police here, and why this is not an actual police or legal case? Is it because it wouldn't hold? Perhaps Rapid should have issued a statement, or perhaps he didn't want to fight windmills and wrestle with leftist mob who wanted to crucify him - would anything he could have said really satisfy anyone? | ||
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LUCKY_NOOB
Bulgaria1528 Posts
On December 11 2023 19:27 ShadPro wrote: Has there ever been any hard evidence on both validity of those claims and age of the supposed victims? Have we seen records of conversations that lead to those moments? If so, why is anyone trying to play the police here, and why this is not an actual police or legal case? Is it because it wouldn't hold? Perhaps Rapid should have issued a statement, or perhaps he didn't want to fight windmills and wrestle with leftist mob who wanted to crucify him - would anything he could have said really satisfy anyone? Radley's other acc? ^_._^ (Edit: I now know ShadPro is his own person confirmed). Legal things are between victims and accused. There are many reasons why victims do not pursue legal actions. If you were actually interested in the topic there's plenty of things you can read out there: https://kpu.pressbooks.pub/nevr/chapter/why-do-survivors-not-report-to-police/ That being said, would you argue for rape if it was legal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rape Just because something is legal does not make it desirable or moral. Words like nuance come to mind... ----------------------------------------------------- All of that aside this is about BSL integrity and the community as a whole. Do we condone that behavior or not? Personally I would have been satisfied IF back when the first accusation came out he issued an apology to those harmed and vowed to change his ways. (Or if there were legal actions you say you can't address anything until that is over and when it is you issue your apology). Instead what have is public silence to this day... Speaking of Crucifixion... I associate it in my mind with the Roman Empire first and foremost. A very well known left wing institution... (that's sarcasm if any1 is wondering) ^_._^ | ||
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Ivory Coast857 Posts
On December 11 2023 19:27 ShadPro wrote: Has there ever been any hard evidence on both validity of those claims and age of the supposed victims? Have we seen records of conversations that lead to those moments? If so, why is anyone trying to play the police here, and why this is not an actual police or legal case? Is it because it wouldn't hold? Perhaps Rapid should have issued a statement, or perhaps he didn't want to fight windmills and wrestle with leftist mob who wanted to crucify him - would anything he could have said really satisfy anyone? Theres extensive material to read up on posted in the OP, maybe read those if you want to defend the guy so you have the same "facts" as the people who think its questionable to have dude casting BSL. To me anyway, I personally agree with the notion that its best to hear both sides(as a general rule of thumb in cases where there are multiple sides to a story) and he had the chance to either deny the claims or say "I know I fucked up I'll change I promise" or say "cause of pending trial I'm not at liberty to comment the allegations", anything is better than just not saying anything then deleting all your socials and going under a rock for 3 years and then come back as if people will probably just have forgot about it. As of right now(and for the last few years) the only available info is the info against him and thats of his chosing so... Either way however you feel about rapids case(or casting), BSL as an organisation publically said they'd not work with the guy and made a big announcement about it and now here he was in the BSL official celebration of 25 years of Starcraft, whatever you feel about rapid directly, its unquestionable that without any type of announcement or something to justify it in advance its questionable behaviour from BSL as an organisation On December 11 2023 15:56 prosatan wrote: maybe rapid can cast some games when we celebrate 26 years of starcraft i see what you did there ;> | ||
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ShadPro
Poland28 Posts
On December 11 2023 20:17 LUCKY_NOOB wrote: Radley's other acc? ^_._^ Legal things are between victims and accused. There are many reasons why victims do not pursue legal actions. If you were actually interested in the topic there's plenty of things you can read out there: https://kpu.pressbooks.pub/nevr/chapter/why-do-survivors-not-report-to-police/ That being said, would you argue for rape if it was legal? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rape Just because something is legal does not make it desirable or moral. Words like nuance come to mind... ----------------------------------------------------- All of that aside this is about BSL integrity and the community as a whole. Do we condone that behavior or not? Personally I would have been satisfied IF back when the first accusation came out he issued an apology to those harmed and vowed to change his ways. (Or if there were legal actions you say you can't address anything until that is over and when it is you issue your apology). Instead what have is public silence to this day... Speaking of Crucifixion... I associate it in my mind with the Roman Empire first and foremost. A very well known left wing institution... (that's sarcasm if any1 is wondering) ^_._^ This is some very incoherent mumbling, even though you are trying. Why are you bringing up reasons for not reporting rape in a discussion about a kid flirting and sending dic picks online whilst all the victims have actually publicly reported it under the real credentials? It was neither rape (nor there is still any tangible proof of it) nor was it not reported - on the contrary. It was discussed in public on multiple occasions. How is any of your arguments relevant? Of course I wouldn't accept rape if it was legal, believe it or not, sexual abuse, online or not, is not legal either. So to sum up, we agreed that these actions are not legal or moral, but also agree that we are past any barriers of not talking about them openly. However, the case still hasn't been legally pursued. There could be a few reasons, the most likely one is that there isn't sufficient evidence. | ||
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Ivory Coast857 Posts
On December 11 2023 22:29 ShadPro wrote: This is some very incoherent mumbling, even though you are trying. Why are you bringing up reasons for not reporting rape in a discussion about a kid flirting and sending dic picks online whilst all the victims have actually publicly reported it under the real credentials? It was neither rape (nor there is still any tangible proof of it) nor was it not reported - on the contrary. It was discussed in public on multiple occasions. How is any of your arguments relevant? Of course I wouldn't accept rape if it was legal, believe it or not, sexual abuse, online or not, is not legal either. So to sum up, we agreed that these actions are not legal or moral, but also agree that we are past any barriers of not talking about them openly. However, the case still hasn't been legally pursued. There could be a few reasons, the most likely one is that there isn't sufficient evidence. Do we have any actual facts on that it hasnt "been legally pursued" or is it just an assumption? | ||
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ShadPro
Poland28 Posts
On December 11 2023 20:29 Return wrote: Theres extensive material to read up on posted in the OP, maybe read those if you want to defend the guy so you have the same "facts" as the people who think its questionable to have dude casting BSL. To me anyway, I personally agree with the notion that its best to hear both sides(as a general rule of thumb in cases where there are multiple sides to a story) and he had the chance to either deny the claims or say "I know I fucked up I'll change I promise" or say "cause of pending trial I'm not at liberty to comment the allegations", anything is better than just not saying anything then deleting all your socials and going under a rock for 3 years and then come back as if people will probably just have forgot about it. As of right now(and for the last few years) the only available info is the info against him and thats of his chosing so... Either way however you feel about rapids case(or casting), BSL as an organisation publically said they'd not work with the guy and made a big announcement about it and now here he was in the BSL official celebration of 25 years of Starcraft, whatever you feel about rapid directly, its unquestionable that without any type of announcement or something to justify it in advance its questionable behaviour from BSL as an organisation i see what you did there ;> I read those threads, half of them have been deleted, big part is just some unverifiable text, one of them is someone who has been having sex with him for years, some of them are related to other individuals who are not named. Is this the evidence? I also agree that he should stand up for himself if the accusations are not true, my guess is he was bracing for legal action. He doesnt need to be proving innocent until he is proven guilty, which hasn't happened. Regardless of it, he would still be condemned because whiteknightism in industry dominated by awkward men is still strong. Regarding BSL, well. The guy paid for the trip and turned up in Thailand, which is more than all of the posters here did. BSL had to do what every institution does in the original case, same as in general of pop culture, reduce damage. Since nothing has been still proven since, I think it is fair to say that public exclusion caused by mob is a fair punishment. I don't see why BSL owns any explanations if there is no guilt proven, but only individual feelings. | ||
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ShadPro
Poland28 Posts
On December 11 2023 22:31 Return wrote: Do we have any actual facts on that it hasnt "been legally pursued" or is it just an assumption? Purely an assumption. If Rapid is a registered sex offender I will shut up and apologise. There has been no news about in the bw community and we have still not seen any proof since. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3460 Posts
On December 11 2023 22:45 ShadPro wrote: I read those threads, half of them have been deleted, big part is just some unverifiable text, one of them is someone who has been having sex with him for years, some of them are related to other individuals who are not named. Is this the evidence? I also agree that he should stand up for himself if the accusations are not true, my guess is he was bracing for legal action. He doesnt need to be proving innocent until he is proven guilty, which hasn't happened. Regardless of it, he would still be condemned because whiteknightism in industry dominated by awkward men is still strong. Regarding BSL, well. The guy paid for the trip and turned up in Thailand, which is more than all of the posters here did. BSL had to do what every institution does in the original case, same as in general of pop culture, reduce damage. Since nothing has been still proven since, I think it is fair to say that public exclusion caused by mob is a fair punishment. I don't see why BSL owns any explanations if there is no guilt proven, but only individual feelings. You forget the tiny little detail that he was banned from BSL in a very public manner, and now he's there without having been unbanned. It doesn't matter if he paid for it. Hell it doesn't even matter why the ban was issued. This is gross incompetence by BSL as a tournament. You think anybody banned from any tournament can just come back if they pay a trip to wherever? That's hilarious. I can guarantee you if ASL had a similar setup, and Ss1nz tried to pay for it, they d still kick him out (deliberately picked a case that has no legal action, just account sharing). Ignoring the reason for the ban, do you agree with my view from a tournament organization standpoint? If you agree, would you then also agree that IF BSL had decided to let him be there, there should have been at a minimum some sort of unbanning announcement. It could have been a one liner. The lack of any communication from BSL AND Rapid on such a high profile case is the main beef people have here. Regardless of how you feel about the accusations and whether they are well founded or not. Surely we can separate the debate between the accusations and the tournament side of the ban. You could have made all the points when bsl issued the ban, but as soon as it was done, it became irrelevant. There is no whiteknighting in this. You could replace the accusations with maphacking for the concept of it. Can you at least recognize that as a valid concern? Or should we just open the gate and ditch banlists, afterall if rapid is back, why not mafius (or whoever s currently banned from BSL)? Or are you gonna be like Radley, ignore that point entirely and go on some weird tangent? I haven't seen anyone counter argue my point so far, only weak deflection attempts. | ||
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ShadPro
Poland28 Posts
On December 11 2023 23:06 WGT-Baal wrote: You forget the tiny little detail that he was banned from BSL in a very public manner, and now he's there without having been unbanned. It doesn't matter if he paid for it. Hell it doesn't even matter why the ban was issued. This is gross incompetence by BSL as a tournament. You think anybody banned from any tournament can just come back if they pay a trip to wherever? That's hilarious. I can guarantee you if ASL had a similar setup, and Ss1nz tried to pay for it, they d still kick him out (deliberately picked a case that has no legal action, just account sharing). Ignoring the reason for the ban, do you agree with my view from a tournament organization standpoint? If you agree, would you then also agree that IF BSL had decided to let him be there, there should have been at a minimum some sort of unbanning announcement. It could have been a one liner. The lack of any communication from BSL AND Rapid on such a high profile case is the main beef people have here. Regardless of how you feel about the accusations and whether they are well founded or not. Surely we can separate the debate between the accusations and the tournament side of the ban. You could have made all the points when bsl issued the ban, but as soon as it was done, it became irrelevant. There is no whiteknighting in this. You could replace the accusations with maphacking for the concept of it. Can you at least recognize that as a valid concern? Or should we just open the gate and ditch banlists, afterall if rapid is back, why not mafius (or whoever s currently banned from BSL)? Or are you gonna be like Radley, ignore that point entirely and go on some weird tangent? I haven't seen anyone counter argue my point so far, only weak deflection attempts. Based on a recent example, isn't that exactly Bisu in ASL? Who was literally caught cryptoscamming with proof and played last season? Unless that is somehow different, I have not seen any formal representation about this. I can absolutely separate those two things, glad we are doing it since the entire case is so shady. I made all these arguments earlier as well, but not posted them here, as I didn't think bw community is as dull as the general public and that it will be taken so far. I think the main point is here that banlists are issued by the organiser, and can change without any duty to issue a public statement. Maybe you are right there should have been a courtesy announcement, maybe not. What good would that do than to cause a pre-event shitstorm and having the same people posting here? Except a couple of reasonable individuals like you, would that be worth it? I am unsure what is better for the tournament itself. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3460 Posts
On December 11 2023 23:56 ShadPro wrote: Based on a recent example, isn't that exactly Bisu in ASL? Who was literally caught cryptoscamming with proof and played last season? Unless that is somehow different, I have not seen any formal representation about this. I can absolutely separate those two things, glad we are doing it since the entire case is so shady. I made all these arguments earlier as well, but not posted them here, as I didn't think bw community is as dull as the general public and that it will be taken so far. I think the main point is here that banlists are issued by the organiser, and can change without any duty to issue a public statement. Maybe you are right there should have been a courtesy announcement, maybe not. What good would that do than to cause a pre-event shitstorm and having the same people posting here? Except a couple of reasonable individuals like you, would that be worth it? I am unsure what is better for the tournament itself. You do have a duty to publically announce change to your banlist yes, there are several ways such as : Mafius is banned till 2030, or ArtOfYahel is banned until bwcl s56. Or in cases like rapid where there were no timeline, then you need to unban them first. Would there be push backs? Absolutely but then it s the tournament admin decision following the normal process. People can disagree with the decision (and would, for sure), but the process and the integrity of the rules are maintained. Doing it stealthily like this undermines the whole system, it sets a horrible precedent not just for BSL but for the entire scene. This is the reason why in this thread every single foreign tournament organiser besides ZZZero is heavily against the decision. The consequences of this going unaddressed will be cutting adrift bsl and all their decisions from the rest of the community, this includes banlists, shared admin resources, shared rules updates etc. Now maybe ZZZero doesn't care and it s his right but you can see why it rattles the rest of us. On a personal point I think it s a strange hill to die on for ZZZero and risk tainting all his hard work for the scene, it baffles me. Glad we agree on this and thanks for a measured reply. Edit: for Bisu afaik he wasn't banned from ASL. So it s not the same. You could argue he should have been, same as you could argue whether rapid should have been 3 years ago. But once a ban is in place there is a process to follow to revoke it. | ||
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quaristice
114 Posts
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TMNT
3124 Posts
All he did was invest into a dodgy coin then lie about doing it to his fans. Even so, he had to do a public apology on stream before coming back. It's like, the two things are not even remotely close lol. | ||
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iRk-AGge
Sweden400 Posts
This is a really sad day for the entire foreign starcraft brood war scene. I met Rapid in Moscow my first trip there. Nice guy and warm guy. But you never know the dark side of a person and in this case the sheep turned into a wolf. The first thing that comes to my mind is Rapid being in Thailand. It’s almost stupid obvious if you are a sexual predator and want to keep being an assface, you go to Thailand. Not only does men exploit women there every minute of the day, but it’s also a known fact that they use childrens as well for their sexual abuse. Second, I had the stream on every day, but without sound so I didn’t notice this (until point three). But why? We have all these cases of men using their power to abuse women both irl and online. In the gaming world the whole situation at Blizzard. As organizers ZZZero and Rus_Brain I just don’t know what you were thinking. It’s such a big misstep. ZZZero, you want to live on organizing BSL and the community ships in thousands of dollars to support and Rapid is what they get in the end? Even if he bought his own ticket to Thailand, and even if he is casting for free, this just puts such a dark cloud over the entire season, tournaments and BSL as an organization. I for one can’t keep supporting this. This goes against what I stand for. But I hope the rest of the community is more forgiving, so you can keep BSL alive. Thirdly, I didn’t notice this until I logged onto Instagram this morning and swiped through Rus_Brains instastory. And I was shocked. Here’s a guy that has been accused and most likely is guilty (according to the evidence provided by various victims) and he’s in the center of every picture. Partying with the top of the foreign SC elite. Having dinner, drinking beer, laughing, doing high fives. And most players and organizers in these videos are treating him like nothing has ever happened. Like he’s a good guy and a friend. My respect for some of these players just went down the drain, for the rest I feel sorry that you were put in this situation with this person without any knowledge, a long way from home. My original plan was to go with the iRk players to Thailand to show support, but now I feel relieved and glad that I didn’t. I would not have felt comfortable with being around Rapid. Even if he just sent a dickpic to one girl without her consent, it’s still such a f’d up thing to do that I wouldn’t want to be around such a person. I don’t offer much to the community nowdays since I retire from most of my duties. But I still watch a lot of BSL and other casts on a daily basis. But this is not what I thought foreign brood war would turn into for 2024. | ||
KwarK
United States43739 Posts
On December 12 2023 00:32 TMNT wrote: Without diving into the matter here, I would like to correct a fact that Bisu was never caught with cryptoscamming (let alone "literally") and was never banned from anything, and also never should have been banned from anything lol. All he did was invest into a dodgy coin then lie about doing it to his fans. Even so, he had to do a public apology on stream before coming back. It's like, the two things are not even remotely close lol. Didn’t he get his coins for free then promote it to his fans as a pump and dump scam where they were buying the worthless coin from him at inflated prices? It’s theft with some middle steps. | ||
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Nirli
Bulgaria381 Posts
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kicek18
Poland2 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3460 Posts
On December 12 2023 01:03 kicek18 wrote: Do I understand the matter correctly? If a guy grabbed girls at parties and talked about it on the Internet, you would think he was a nice lover, but if he tried to do it on the Internet, is he a degenerate? You do not, perhaps you should learn to read better. But since i m generous here it is: The issue is someone very publically banned got invited back with no reason and no announcement while still being technically banned. | ||
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