|
I posted this on the BW subreddit but figured I'd probably get higher-quality answers on here!
I'm firmly of the belief that Brood War is the greatest RTS game ever released, but there are a lot of obvious things that, in my view, would make the game better if they were different - mostly so that high-skill players could focus their attention on more interesting interactions.
One answer I have for the title is: that you can't build over your own units (or allied units in team games). Obviously this isn't as big of a problem when you're building generally, but having to micromanage your decolliding workers out of the way when you want to build Missile Turrets or Photon Cannons seems pretty unnecessary. (I tested without it and it was surprisingly intuitive!)
I'm working on a pretty sizable overhaul of the game, and wanted to know if there were small quirks that bother people in the same way. We've already resolved a lot of them (and the game is very different than BW now, anyways), but maybe there are some suggestions people have that could be worked into the project. And regardless of my work, I thought it could be an interesting discussion point!
What say you all? (inb4 Dragoons and ramps)
|
Been following this for some time now, nice ideas and interesting changes to stuff like pathing.
My main annoyance is wrist hurting from literally gaming all my life and being unable to play BW at all. What's the fix doc? 
(Playing Protoss isn't an option.)
|
How terrible bnet is and the myriad of things that got worse, from latency to friend list, the join lobby bug (still there!) and the lack of 2v2 ladder that I will forever be salty about.
But for the game itself, all the little quirks make it the perfect game it is and I wouldn't want it any other way.
Best of luck with your project~
|
They switched the uses of the left and right mouse button compared to Command and Conquer: Red Alert.
|
Croatia9489 Posts
Here's the list I made a while ago, as a wish list of things we wanted to address in some way on ShieldBattery: https://gist.github.com/2Pacalypse-/cd0e368adde17c2c9673
Some of these things were added in SC:R (e.g. unit limit), and some of these we already fixed on ShieldBattery (e.g. unit stacking bug), but I don't feel like updating the list at the moment to reflect my newest thinking.
|
Since most players are in Korea they complain about latency or just leave game within first 2 minutes because the game is TR 16 instead of 24 as they are used to.No new players coming through because game is so old.
No complaints about game itself.
|
It would be nice to see a video about how this is working at the moment; seems like a very ambitious project but also seems that you guys are working hard at it; the foreign bw community never ceases to surprise me
|
UI and Blizzard, the game itself is near perfect.
|
|
|
Remastering game with can now be playable in 500fps but keeping 8fps animations so game is not smooth anyway.
No 2v2 ladder as final nail in coffin.
|
Always wanted one more additional F key for locations.
|
I hate when my goons, when they don't have range upgrade, are stepping right into spider mines even if there is an observer!!! Yessss, you can argue why there isnt range already upgraded when you have observer , but still !! 
|
I hate rallypoint in the mouse. Is so painful to see your drones dying to canons while multitasking with zerglings and ur rally point just changed.. I hate that 2 zerglings that are attacking a worker that is mining all of sudden of one them stop attacking that worker and change focus.There is something about workers going to get minerals and return that bug that out somehow.. And i also hate zerglings freeze while chasing a zealot. Painful.
|
Goons and Medics freezing is annoying as hell. I also find it annoying that goons act more stupid when they're cloaked by arbiters. I've noticed that when Goons are cloaked by arbiters, even though they have vision and range, they will often walk to close to mines and trigger them before starting to attack them (something that almost never happens when not under an arbiter). I also think it's annoying that SCVs are always bouncing around when they're building and often blocking buildings, especially supply depots. I also find it annoying that for no reason at all, sometimes when I drop a dt out of a shuttle, the game bugs out and my opponent will get vision for a slight moment and my DT's take a bunch of damage. I hate that scouts cost so much and I hate how confusing it is in terms of what's a tight wall or not between all the different types of terrain and buildings and unit types. If I sat here for a while, I could probably come up with more but these are the ones that instantly come to mind.
|
scouts need to come with speed upg already researched, then they'd probably a niche unit that gets normal use.
reasons: same ground DPS as wraith, but much higher cost. so why do they start off slow?
they cost more than a corsair, so why aren't they the same speed?
but as a zerg player, my life is probably more stress-free the way things are.
|
I hate that they "fixed" the lost keyboard input at some point in remastered because they actually didn't fix it but made the behavior very unintuitive. Before remastered, when you 1a2a3a'ed and you for example pressed 2 before you released the left mouse button, you pressing 2 was simply not registered and you didn't select the 2nd control group. Now with the "fix" in the same scenario, the command you thought you issued to group 1 is now issued to group 2 instead which is more often than not very confusing. So now 2 groups of units are doing something unexpected instead of just one.
|
On September 09 2023 16:44 G5 wrote:
Goons and Medics freezing is annoying as hell. I also find it annoying that goons act more stupid when they're cloaked by arbiters. I've noticed that when Goons are cloaked by arbiters, even though they have vision and range, they will often walk to close to mines and trigger them before starting to attack them (something that almost never happens when not under an arbiter). I also think it's annoying that SCVs are always bouncing around when they're building and often blocking buildings, especially supply depots. I also find it annoying that for no reason at all, sometimes when I drop a dt out of a shuttle, the game bugs out and my opponent will get vision for a slight moment and my DT's take a bunch of damage. I hate that scouts cost so much and I hate how confusing it is in terms of what's a tight wall or not between all the different types of terrain and buildings and unit types. If I sat here for a while, I could probably come up with more but these are the ones that instantly come to mind.
What? I cant even begin to understand why that could be? Not saying I dont believe you.. but wtf D=
|
Thanks everyone for the neat responses!
On September 09 2023 03:53 Nirli wrote:My main annoyance is wrist hurting from literally gaming all my life and being unable to play BW at all. What's the fix doc?
That's terrible. I've been following the stretches in this video for years - maybe they can offer you some relief and eventually help you! I would also recommend compression gloves/sleeves depending on the location of the pain, especially if it's getting to the point that you can't play without discomfort. Anything beyond that is a bit above my familiarity, but I'm wishing you well!
On September 09 2023 05:32 WGT-Baal wrote:
Best of luck with your project~
Thanks Baal! Brood War's quirks are definitely a huge lesson in intentional design - I feel like it's possible to make an even better game if you, as a designer, take ownership over every aspect of the game. Blizzard didn't do that, and instead accidentally made something great. I hope I'm not the only developer to actually learn from BW's example, so we can have more great RTS games in the future!
I love this list! As a bit of an exercise, I went through and sorted them based on their status in Cosmonarchy Brood War:
+ Show Spoiler +Confirmed bugs:- Unit freezing by issuing move command during an attack frame. -- Fixed- Reavers refusing to shoot at certain angles, even though it's in range. -- Not applicable, unit was reworked- Probes doing ring around the rosie between gateways while maynarding -- Fixed as far as I could tell - Various limits -- Fixed- Saving the game bugs out the replay most of the time. -- Fixed- Keyboard commands don't register as long as a mousebutton is pressed down. -- Fixed- Filename length limit in map and replay names, when hosting the game. -- Unchanged, low priority to fix - Bug which allows units to be permanently stacked. -- Needs testing- Interceptor infinite loop return -- Not applicable ( Stewards no longer have shields; now return only when below an HP threshold) - Certain tiles in the BroodWar Terrains are bugged, so you can't actually use them for maps. -- Fixed- Pathfinding not searching all the alternative paths in certain conditions. -- Unchanged, probably quite hard to fix - Setting a rally point with a pylon disables it -- Needs testing, but seems impossible now - Terrain level bugs -- Fixed (there are many more that weren't in that link) Not a bug, but annoying nonetheless:- Pathfinding on ramps. -- Unchanged, same as the previous pathfinding case - Diagonal movement of units can sometimes be weird. -- Unchanged, though we fixed all variable unit movement, so this might seem fixed/better/etc. - The control-group-adding-when-full "bug". -- Not applicable, selection limit was increased to 252 - If the building is surrounded by all sides, it can't produce units prompting the message "Building exit is blocked". -- Fixed by making units spawn in the direction of rally points - Setting a worker to mine on a mineral patch that's under the fog of war is a bit finicky. -- Unchanged, but should be looked into! - Lifting a terran building deletes its current rally point, even after the building is landed back again. -- Unchanged, but should be looked into! - Loading/unloading units from shuttles/overlords/dropships messes up their hotkeys. -- Unchanged, but should be looked into! - Siege Tanks detonate when colliding with buildings -- Fixed, we just force-unsiege them if they are in siege mode - Gas harvesting can be tismic -- Not applicable, because workers no longer disappear into the refinery - When workers are returning their cargo, they take air distance to calculate nearest nexus/cc/hatchery instead of ground distance. -- FixedNo words, just insane bugs:- Ramp vortex -- Unchanged, but because we improved the pathing of all the ramps, I don't think this happens anymore! - Terran workers bugging out after finishing a building -- Improved because the workers follow a consistent RNG-free pattern during construction - Units hanging up on an out-of-range attack target -- Fixed- Lifted Terran structures spin when trying to land -- Fixed- 1/256 miss chance -- Removed- Infinite range on hold position -- FixedNew features:- Allow key rebinding. -- Unchanged, though we allow optional grid hotkeys in config - Rework unit selection logic in BW when you're trying to select more than 12 units -- Done- Setting a rally point should change the spawn location of units after they finish building. -- Done- Gaps between building should depend on building types being put together and not on which side you put each. -- Unchanged, it's actually much harder to wall in CMBW because buildings have more standardized and reduced collision sizes - Change the F1 key binding from Help screen to another location hotkey. -- Done, and you can also use F5 through F8! - Give workers a Hold Position command. -- Unchanged, because of the button limit on command cards (we will eventually raise this) - Subtract resources when you issue a command to build a building -- Unchanged, but we are actually working on this! - Show all unexplored parts of a map under a fog of war, instead of pitch plack. -- Done (mappers can disable it for campaigns and etc. if they so desire) - Show a line between a production building and its rally-point. -- Done- Workers should lose the collision when ordered to build buildings -- Unchanged, I just disagree with this, but we made it easier to build anyway (you can build over own/allied units, and workers don't provide any collision while harvesting resources
On September 09 2023 06:46 pebble444 wrote:
It would be nice to see a video about how this is working at the moment
I commentate loads of matches between community players, you can check out the latest videos on my channel! Otherwise, there are links on the front page that will take you to some showcase videos. We're still working on more!
On September 09 2023 16:44 G5 wrote:
I also find it annoying that goons act more stupid when they're cloaked by arbiters.
Never saw examples of this, but units in Starcraft have an effectively-random delay on all orders (up to 8 frames in many cases, which is 1/3rd of a second). This makes their behavior incredibly variable.
|
On September 09 2023 16:44 G5 wrote:
I also find it annoying that for no reason at all, sometimes when I drop a dt out of a shuttle, the game bugs out and my opponent will get vision for a slight moment and my DT's take a bunch of damage.
It was probably never intended, but there certainly is a reason that happens. It will always happen when you pick it up while the DT was revealed. As long as it remains in the shuttle, the game doesn't update the "revealed" status of the unit.
|
An overall tank range review (i.e. with the screen angle, etc.) could only be fair imo
|
Norway28597 Posts
1: workers mining faster when being actively controlled. fuck that, that is way too high on the 'tedious' scale, Prolly wouldn't ever have bothered with competitive bw if that was a thing 20 years ago.
2: the timer. this made the game less 'feel/intution'-based and more about perfectly optimizing, and I think the former is a lot more fun. 
And yeah the dt being revealed after pickup if it was revealed when picked up is probably a bug, but it doesn't randomly happen. If possible, you can do a drop-pickup in a safe zone before the dt before redropping it (not always viable in a pvt obviously, but sometimes it is) to avoid the problem.
|
Haven't played in a while, but I'd say things that are positionally imbalanced such as where the units spawn from when walling (outside on some, inside on others) and terran addons always being at the bottom and right of a structure rather than anywhere is unfortunate.
|
On September 10 2023 19:06 Cryoc wrote:
It will always happen when you pick it up while the DT was revealed. As long as it remains in the shuttle, the game doesn't update the "revealed" status of the unit.
That's a funny one. We overhauled cloaking in CMBW, so after attacking, activating an ability, or being unloaded from a transport, you decloak (and recloak after 2 seconds of not doing any of the above), so we never saw this in action.
On September 10 2023 23:10 TornadoSteve wrote:
An overall tank range review (i.e. with the screen angle, etc.) could only be fair imo
Do you mean like this?
On September 10 2023 23:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:
1: workers mining faster when being actively controlled. fuck that, that is way too high on the 'tedious' scale, Prolly wouldn't ever have bothered with competitive bw if that was a thing 20 years ago.
It does reward high APM and focus in the early stages of the game, but I agree that it's just not very interesting or compelling. A lot of BW is like this really, where APM is taxed to achieve a certain amount of scale, and I would like to think that an intentionally-designed game would allow for an even higher-skill ceiling, and that the skills tested would all be about interesting strategic and tactical decisions.
On September 10 2023 23:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:2: the timer. this made the game less 'feel/intution'-based and more about perfectly optimizing, and I think the former is a lot more fun.
So far, I feel like this is more of a problem with a small pool of choices in the early game (especially depending on which matchup you have). But maybe professional-tier players would always solve the meta in a certain way - I'm honestly not sure! For us average joes, though, intuition feels much better.
On September 11 2023 00:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Haven't played in a while, but I'd say things that are positionally imbalanced such as where the units spawn from when walling (outside on some, inside on others) and terran addons always being at the bottom and right of a structure rather than anywhere is unfortunate.
Yeah this is unfortunate. We had rally points redone to spawn units on their side, but addons are another beast, and probably can't be changed in an elegant way.
|
I found the mini videos on the website and watched them, thank you!
Flying bunker reminds me of the flying elephant; at this stage, was it ever an idea that the marines or other units inside the bunker can fire while it is airborn? It totally looks like a flying sorcer too
Edit: can you make siege tanks fly too?
|
On September 11 2023 03:09 pebble444 wrote:
Flying bunker reminds me of the flying elephant; at this stage, was it ever an idea that the marines or other units inside the bunker can fire while it is airborn? It totally looks like a flying sorcer too
It is planned for the tier 3 garrison, but it's not yet implemented because we are waiting for a new model for it.
On September 11 2023 03:09 pebble444 wrote:
Edit: can you make siege tanks fly too?
That's pretty trivial actually, but we haven't decided to implement anything like that yet.
|
The game is perfect. I’m bad at it and want more bad people to play against. Best games regardless of skill are between evenly matched people. The only thing I want is a sizeable pool of F ranked players to play against. I’m tired of queuing up against smurfs running up the ladder for the billionth time, but I don’t see how anyone would be able to fix that problem.
|
Dominican Republic613 Posts
some units or abilities not being used at all
|
I don't think it happens any more on remastered(?) but sometimes on 1.16 I would go to split my drones and once in a while one of them would just bug out and glitch over the mineral patch for like 5 seconds before finally setting down and start mining lol. Drones are by far the dumbest workers
|
Not being able to see where expansions are on the minimap when playing new maps. Having to learn and remember how to wall in PvZ at every position on every new map.
|
My probes get stuck between gateways when I transfer them from one mineral line to another.
|
|
|
Ok there is one thing, when you transfer probes and they get randomly stuck in between your gateways on the way to the new base.
|
Sweden1235 Posts
On September 12 2023 03:04 Ideas wrote:
I don't think it happens any more on remastered(?) but sometimes on 1.16 I would go to split my drones and once in a while one of them would just bug out and glitch over the mineral patch for like 5 seconds before finally setting down and start mining lol. Drones are by far the dumbest workers
That jump happens because you split too slow and accidentally miss a mineral with your drone causing it to stack jump. The fix is doing it more calmly and never miss a mineral with right click.
|
A lot of quirks and bugs are part of the charm of brood war. Units tripping over each other, buildings not making, control group size, hotkey limits, no building grouping, and many more. All these are frustrating but ive come to accept and appreciate them.
There is one i really dislike though, its the DT not sending notification upon 1 shotting a unit. Its abused often by taking the zerg and rarely terran attention elsewhere and attacking with the dt simultaneously. While I can appreciate the tactic, i dont find it fair. I am also a zerg player who has gotten owned by dts so that also contributes to it :D :D My heart goes out to all the drones who got murdered by those invisible men.
|
Since the title says "little things" then I pick that workers are not able to use patrol command. I wish I could choose 1 big thing and bitch for days about latency in bw though.
|
On September 12 2023 07:44 durachok wrote:
My probes get stuck between gateways when I transfer them from one mineral line to another.
This one
|
On September 12 2023 21:15 c0ralie wrote:
There is one i really dislike though, its the DT not sending notification upon 1 shotting a unit. Its abused often by taking the zerg and rarely terran attention elsewhere and attacking with the dt simultaneously. While I can appreciate the tactic, i dont find it fair. I am also a zerg player who has gotten owned by dts so that also contributes to it :D :D My heart goes out to all the drones who got murdered by those invisible men.
Yeah this is actually just a bug in SC, for some reason they wrote their code in such a way that doesn't call the notify function if damage is fatal. We fixed that in our project, but I don't think Blizzard would ever do that in BW (it would technically be a balance change, even though it's not "good" for the game at all).
|
On September 13 2023 01:26 castleeMg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2023 07:44 durachok wrote:
My probes get stuck between gateways when I transfer them from one mineral line to another. This one
This can probably be fixed by leaving a clear path under the main nexus to the ramp. Not entirely sure because I never leave a clear path lol.
|
On September 10 2023 23:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:1: workers mining faster when being actively controlled. fuck that, that is way too high on the 'tedious' scale, Prolly wouldn't ever have bothered with competitive bw if that was a thing 20 years ago. 2: the timer. this made the game less 'feel/intution'-based and more about perfectly optimizing, and I think the former is a lot more fun. And yeah the dt being revealed after pickup if it was revealed when picked up is probably a bug, but it doesn't randomly happen. If possible, you can do a drop-pickup in a safe zone before the dt before redropping it (not always viable in a pvt obviously, but sometimes it is) to avoid the problem.
I also dislike the timer being added.
"StarCraft 2 has a timer? My mineral node says it's time for you to GG"
- Unimpressed FlaSh
|
I hate that I can't play on LAN latency. It's not the game's fault but it discourages me from playing. Can't be fighting Brood War clunk with a full second delay!
The other thing I dislike is also not the game's fault, but it's that the foreign scene never got properly supported. I enjoy watching the likes of Nony and Ret just as much as the top Koreans.
If I were to pick something about the game, specifically, it'd be the linearity of certain match-ups at times. ZvP hydra busts get a little stale and the same old ZvT openers have gotten a tad rote over the years. Brood War is very player dependent. Certain players make for consistently entertaining games while others bring the same old shiyat.
|
On September 10 2023 23:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:1: workers mining faster when being actively controlled. fuck that, that is way too high on the 'tedious' scale, Prolly wouldn't ever have bothered with competitive bw if that was a thing 20 years ago. 2: the timer. this made the game less 'feel/intution'-based and more about perfectly optimizing, and I think the former is a lot more fun. And yeah the dt being revealed after pickup if it was revealed when picked up is probably a bug, but it doesn't randomly happen. If possible, you can do a drop-pickup in a safe zone before the dt before redropping it (not always viable in a pvt obviously, but sometimes it is) to avoid the problem.
great point about the timer. i agree.
|
|
|
|
|
On September 13 2023 15:25 Highgamer wrote:
Protoss
Damn I am 34 min late.
|
1) men always targeting Interceptors instead of Carriers.
2) AI never uses Nydus Canals.
|
2c: I only watch the game, I don't play, so I can't say anything about bugs and suchlike. I just hate watching hydra bust rushes in ZvP, so I wouldn't mind seeing hydra speed moved to lair tech. This is more theorycrafting though, so sorry if this post is stupid and spammy.
|
On September 15 2023 17:38 O.P. wrote:
2c: I only watch the game, I don't play, so I can't say anything about bugs and suchlike. I just hate watching hydra bust rushes in ZvP, so I wouldn't mind seeing hydra speed moved to lair tech. This is more theorycrafting though, so sorry if this post is stupid and spammy.
This would make vulture and wraith builds an absolute nightmare to play against in zvt. A better solution would be so cannons don't take full damage vs explosive attacks while warping in.
|
joining games bugs sometimes.
random log outs during alt-tab in lobby.
edit: if anyone has fix to random log outs i would appreciate help. Also sometimes it says error 3
|
On September 15 2023 19:49 kidcrash wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2023 17:38 O.P. wrote:
2c: I only watch the game, I don't play, so I can't say anything about bugs and suchlike. I just hate watching hydra bust rushes in ZvP, so I wouldn't mind seeing hydra speed moved to lair tech. This is more theorycrafting though, so sorry if this post is stupid and spammy. This would make vulture and wraith builds an absolute nightmare to play against in zvt. A better solution would be so cannons don't take full damage vs explosive attacks while warping in.
Spot on.
|
Surely you wouldn't want to gimmick damage types based on construction state?
|
On September 16 2023 00:46 Pr0nogo wrote:
Surely you wouldn't want to gimmick damage types based on construction state?
Damage types are already a gimmick albeit one that the developers created and we have all grown to love. Buildings warping are sort of a unique feature as is, so a unique solution wouldn't really be out of line with anything in particular.
|
i would import the concept of a "nexus field" from starcraft 2 so that cannons near a nexus build faster
|
On September 16 2023 02:23 kidcrash wrote:Buildings warping are sort of a unique feature as is, so a unique solution wouldn't really be out of line with anything in particular.
Structures being constructed over time is definitely not a unique feature.
On September 16 2023 03:18 townhouse wrote:
i would import the concept of a "nexus field" from starcraft 2 so that cannons near a nexus build faster
Good idea!
|
Russian Federation1611 Posts
As Protoss:
- hydra bust
- 180 limit terran push
- in PvP when Protoss makes fast expand and then kills you with mass dragoons
|
i hate that zerg need twice the apm as protoss to deal with them rallying zealots behind your minerals and pressing hold position.
i hate that it takes 3x the apm to dodge storms than it does to cast storms.
i hate that protoss and terran only have to look at one screen to macro all their production+upgrade in late game while zerg has to look at 5 different places to macro hatches and 3 different places to keep upgrades going
i hate always being economically behind other races because larva produce from hatcheries at 87% the rate of a command center/nexus producing probes/scvs.
|
On September 16 2023 08:49 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
i hate always being economically behind other races because larva produce from hatcheries at 87% the rate of a command center/nexus producing probes/scvs.
Having 3 slots to build units simultaneously per hatchery which costs 100 minerals less than nexus/CC is a pretty good compensation imo. Drone cycles are probably the strongest economical boost in the game.
|
Not being able to cancel eggs is kinda silly though.
|
A better solution would be so cannons don't take full damage vs explosive attacks while warping in.
Why not make cannons be Medium armor type, warping in or otherwise? That way there isn't a gimmick where warping in buildings are different.
(Would makes cannons stronger v hydras (and tanks/goons), weaker v vultures, which seems fine).
|
|
|
On September 09 2023 06:32 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Since most players are in Korea they complain about latency or just leave game within first 2 minutes because the game is TR 16 instead of 24 as they are used to.No new players coming through because game is so old.
No complaints about game itself.
shieldbattery exists and it's all euro/US players
|
On September 19 2023 21:20 BulgarianToss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2023 08:49 Crimson)S(hadow wrote:
i hate always being economically behind other races because larva produce from hatcheries at 87% the rate of a command center/nexus producing probes/scvs. Having 3 slots to build units simultaneously per hatchery which costs 100 minerals less than nexus/CC is a pretty good compensation imo. Drone cycles are probably the strongest economical boost in the game.
It costs 100 minerals less because it only gives 1 supply and uses up a drone
it's actually 350 minerals and a larva for less production and less supply (87.5 minerals of supply missing)
|
Actually, I like the high-ground/low-ground mechanic. Yes, it adds randomness. But not in a way that makes a match a coin toss. Players must take into account the randomness of the ramp and take risks if necessary. I think this is an exciting element that should not be changed. However, it is different with the general miss chance with range attacks. That is just stupid.
|
Goon Stuck bug and bnet.
Worker mining boosting.
|
Did I read correctly that in your version of broodwar attacking removes cloak? Does this work for lurkers as well? This seems like a pretty drastic balance change and far from what I would prioritize. I will try to remember to check in on your project, it will be interesting to see what your balance team comes up with. My cynical brain says you will probably nerf Protoss, the already weakest race.
|
Lakizilisk (formerly Lurker) doesn't reveal when attacking, but standing on burrowed units with ground units reveals them.
If you do check out the project, feel free to let us know what you think!
|
This is really interesting. What kind of process does your team have for implementing changes. For example the cloaked & burrowed changes. You obviously feel this makes the game better, why is that a good change?
|
Hopefully it's not derailing the thread too much to answer this, but:
In stock SC1, cloak is basically a binary equipment check. If you have detection (particularly mobile detection), you're usually fine and the unit is useless. If you don't have it, you could lose loads of workers/military/whatever. Obviously pros will optimize builds to include it most of the time, but even at their level games can be won or lost very easily from one mistake, including not building detection vs cloak (or not being able to protect your detection, in ZvT).
Of course, Wraiths and Dark Templar serve other purposes than just being equipment checks, but that kind of interaction is inarguably a 'rock-paper-scissors', hard counter-esque experience within SC1, and we wanted to move away from those kinds of things. This fits with our general desire to reduce the volatility of the early-game, which lots of people initially dismiss as simply "making the game easier", though I think it actually makes the game more challenging because longer games test more of your strategic understanding, stamina, etc.
Detection is also ubiquitous: it's present on the Missile Turret, Photon Cannon, and Spore Colony. We wanted to remove this so that static detection was less common, meaning cloaked units would have more breathing room as scout / harassment units. When coupled with the 'reveal for 2 seconds on attack' change, cloaked units have much more counterplay, but we can have more of them in the game (Terran Sundog | Protoss Barghest), and they can do more interesting things than simply defeat your opponent if they don't have detection.
Burrow vision was changed separately, because upgrades/researches are removed, so you have Burrow by default. This initially resulted in silly situations where burrowed worker scouts would be mostly unkillable without detection, thus providing a really weird advantage to the Zerg player. However, revealing the Lakizilisk by standing on it is actually really interesting - if you have durable enough units, or you want to risk it anyway, you can snipe them without detection!
If you want to learn more, I've begun making educational videos to introduce new players, starting with a macro overview. It doesn't cover cloak (the next video will), and it doesn't linger too much on the reasons behind our changes, but it should give you a more holistic view on the project.
Thanks for your question!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
