Ladder Season 8 - Page 2

On October 09 2020 20:37 Avi-Love wrote:


I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps.

On October 09 2020 23:27 Highgamer wrote:

Well, you wrote "sentiment" before you thought about my possible logic - and I think it has to do with sentiments, and it's normal that one doesn't understand all the sentiments/opinions of others because they're personal.
I just don't mind to keep the same 2-3 bread n butter maps in the pool for now.
FS's features just feel standard to me, that's personal, too. Has to do with when I picked up the game. I like Sylphid, but the lack of ramps, the 3rds' placements, the 3player-setup... not my idea of a standard BW-map.

So, I don't feel that FS or CB are outdated/outplayed, we just differ in opinion here. Many sports are played on the same kind of playing field forever... Some people want changes after a while, some don't.

But even "by my logic" I would not have to want LT and Python - because those are clearly imbalanced, on a whole different scale than FS might be slightly imbalanced. I consider FS to be the so far last of these maps that might have played a central role, so it has a special standing in that line at this point.

And as far as the doubtful balance of FS and decreasing use in pro-play is concerned: That is one argument, but another is that simple/standard macro maps make it easier for newcomers to figure things out. I came to BW in 2011 and was really happy that 90% of the games in the next 5+ years were played on FS, lol.

On October 10 2020 00:32 Avi-Love wrote:


You're obviously entitled to your own opinion and your own sentiments, just like anyone that would cling onto python, lost temple and luna would be -- their claim is not stronger nor is it weaker than yours, but to me they are equally wrong in the grand scheme of things. I don't think FS is a lot easier to learn for a beginner than Poly or CB would be, so I feel like that is a weak argument clearly marred by personal experience rather than objectivity.

Now I think the real issue for me personally is that what people consider to be "standard macro 4 player maps" might actually not belong in the game/meta any longer, if you look at the map stats from a distance you'll notice that almost all 4 player maps (I exclude maps like sparkle and ringing bloom here, because to me they don't fill the "standard" criteria, feel free to disagree) have significant imbalance, and it's always towards terran, and it is in both matchups. FS, CB, Poly, ground zero, eddy, optimizer and escalade all support this -- the only outlier from a quick glance is Gladiator, that while still terran favoured is a lot more even overall. There is also evidence that ZvP is imbalanced in favour of zerg on these types of maps.

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 10 2020 01:59 Highgamer wrote:
Much better than overall ladder stats where all levels of play are blended, that's for sure.

Best would be official tourney matches but then the amount of games is too small in this day and age, properly.

How do you switch that site to english? The bottom at the very top right doesn't work for me, thoughts that was the one...

On October 09 2020 19:55 kogeT wrote:In current version of polypoid, the top mineral in upper left corner of the base bugs if you build a depot on top of it.

On October 10 2020 03:23 Freakling wrote:
Which base? Got a screenshot? Which version # vs. which are you comparing?

On October 10 2020 00:32 Avi-Love wrote:


You're obviously entitled to your own opinion and your own sentiments, just like anyone that would cling onto python, lost temple and luna would be -- their claim is not stronger nor is it weaker than yours, but to me they are equally wrong in the grand scheme of things. I don't think FS is a lot easier to learn for a beginner than Poly or CB would be, so I feel like that is a weak argument clearly marred by personal experience rather than objectivity.

Now I think the real issue for me personally is that what people consider to be "standard macro 4 player maps" might actually not belong in the game/meta any longer, if you look at the map stats from a distance you'll notice that almost all 4 player maps (I exclude maps like sparkle and ringing bloom here, because to me they don't fill the "standard" criteria, feel free to disagree) have significant imbalance, and it's always towards terran, and it is in both matchups. FS, CB, Poly, ground zero, eddy, optimizer and escalade all support this -- the only outlier from a quick glance is Gladiator, that while still terran favoured is a lot more even overall. There is also evidence that ZvP is imbalanced in favour of zerg on these types of maps.

On October 10 2020 03:38 kogeT wrote:


Please see 1:38:30 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/764502712. I played that yesterday night.

On October 10 2020 03:38 kogeT wrote:


Please see 1:38:30 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/764502712. I played that yesterday night.