- (2) Benzene
- (2) Eclipse
- (3) Plasma
- (4) Circuit Breakers
- (4) Polypoid
- (4) Ringing Bloom
- (4) Fighting Spirit
Please don't veto Plasma
Forum Index > BW General |
blabber
United States4448 Posts
Please don't veto Plasma | ||
des
United States507 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10583 Posts
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Katkishka
United States640 Posts
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art_of_turtle
United States1153 Posts
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GTR
51135 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On October 09 2020 11:33 art_of_turtle wrote: Sylphid we should have kept but CB could have gone. On October 09 2020 08:41 des wrote: RIP Sylphid. Pouring one out for my favorite map. and they got rid of sylphid. what the hell | ||
Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
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MineraIs
United States803 Posts
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
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Highgamer
1346 Posts
But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... | ||
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6322 Posts
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kogeT
Poland2000 Posts
In current version of polypoid, the top mineral in upper left corner of the base bugs if you build a depot on top of it. | ||
Kare
Norway786 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5231 Posts
On October 09 2020 17:05 Alejandrisha wrote: poly, cb, fs all in the same map pool..... again.. Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 11:33 art_of_turtle wrote: Sylphid we should have kept but CB could have gone. Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 08:41 des wrote: RIP Sylphid. Pouring one out for my favorite map. and they got rid of sylphid. what the hell Yeah, I really think they should've kept Sylphid and removed either CB or FS. Is there any chance they could still amend it? Can we petition Blizzard? TBH, I think they could just use the map pool currently used by KCM. Looks like a nice balance of standard and non-standard, 2P, 3P and 4P. | ||
Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
On October 09 2020 19:17 Highgamer wrote: I understand the grief for Sylphid. But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps. I do think a VERY easy and quick solution is to just replace plasma with sylphid in the current map pool, it would be a huge improvement and almost 0 effort. Both 3 player maps as well. | ||
kogeT
Poland2000 Posts
| ||
maybenexttime
Poland5231 Posts
On October 09 2020 20:37 Avi-Love wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 19:17 Highgamer wrote: I understand the grief for Sylphid. But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps. I do think a VERY easy and quick solution is to just replace plasma with sylphid in the current map pool, it would be a huge improvement and almost 0 effort. Both 3 player maps as well. I think the KCM map pool would work great. It's ASL10 + Sylphid. It's got two standard 4p maps (Polypoid and Shakuras), two non-standard 4p maps (Optimizer and Bloom) and two 3p and 2p maps. | ||
Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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WGT-Baal
France3155 Posts
On October 09 2020 21:56 Alejandrisha wrote: i have only seen one game on plasma and it was the stupidest game i have ever seen. what the actual fuck Just played and won one because i forgot to ban it and yeah...it s ridiculous. | ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
On October 09 2020 20:37 Avi-Love wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 19:17 Highgamer wrote: I understand the grief for Sylphid. But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps. Well, you wrote "sentiment" before you thought about my possible logic - and I think it has to do with sentiments, and it's normal that one doesn't understand all the sentiments/opinions of others because they're personal. I just don't mind to keep the same 2-3 bread n butter maps in the pool for now. FS's features just feel standard to me, that's personal, too. Has to do with when I picked up the game. I like Sylphid, but the lack of ramps, the 3rds' placements, the 3player-setup... not my idea of a standard BW-map. So, I don't feel that FS or CB are outdated/outplayed, we just differ in opinion here. Many sports are played on the same kind of playing field forever... Some people want changes after a while, some don't. But even "by my logic" I would not have to want LT and Python - because those are clearly imbalanced, on a whole different scale than FS might be slightly imbalanced. I consider FS to be the so far last of these maps that might have played a central role, so it has a special standing in that line at this point. And as far as the doubtful balance of FS and decreasing use in pro-play is concerned: That is one argument, but another is that simple/standard macro maps make it easier for newcomers to figure things out. I came to BW in 2011 and was really happy that 90% of the games in the next 5+ years were played on FS, lol. | ||
Ziggy
South Korea2103 Posts
On October 09 2020 13:27 GTR wrote: Would really like for them to just copy the ASL map pool. and concede their hegemony over starcraft? | ||
Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
On October 09 2020 23:27 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 20:37 Avi-Love wrote: On October 09 2020 19:17 Highgamer wrote: I understand the grief for Sylphid. But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps. Well, you wrote "sentiment" before you thought about my possible logic - and I think it has to do with sentiments, and it's normal that one doesn't understand all the sentiments/opinions of others because they're personal. I just don't mind to keep the same 2-3 bread n butter maps in the pool for now. FS's features just feel standard to me, that's personal, too. Has to do with when I picked up the game. I like Sylphid, but the lack of ramps, the 3rds' placements, the 3player-setup... not my idea of a standard BW-map. So, I don't feel that FS or CB are outdated/outplayed, we just differ in opinion here. Many sports are played on the same kind of playing field forever... Some people want changes after a while, some don't. But even "by my logic" I would not have to want LT and Python - because those are clearly imbalanced, on a whole different scale than FS might be slightly imbalanced. I consider FS to be the so far last of these maps that might have played a central role, so it has a special standing in that line at this point. And as far as the doubtful balance of FS and decreasing use in pro-play is concerned: That is one argument, but another is that simple/standard macro maps make it easier for newcomers to figure things out. I came to BW in 2011 and was really happy that 90% of the games in the next 5+ years were played on FS, lol. You're obviously entitled to your own opinion and your own sentiments, just like anyone that would cling onto python, lost temple and luna would be -- their claim is not stronger nor is it weaker than yours, but to me they are equally wrong in the grand scheme of things. I don't think FS is a lot easier to learn for a beginner than Poly or CB would be, so I feel like that is a weak argument clearly marred by personal experience rather than objectivity. Now I think the real issue for me personally is that what people consider to be "standard macro 4 player maps" might actually not belong in the game/meta any longer, if you look at the map stats from a distance you'll notice that almost all 4 player maps (I exclude maps like sparkle and ringing bloom here, because to me they don't fill the "standard" criteria, feel free to disagree) have significant imbalance, and it's always towards terran, and it is in both matchups. FS, CB, Poly, ground zero, eddy, optimizer and escalade all support this -- the only outlier from a quick glance is Gladiator, that while still terran favoured is a lot more even overall. There is also evidence that ZvP is imbalanced in favour of zerg on these types of maps. | ||
9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
| ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
On October 10 2020 00:32 Avi-Love wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 23:27 Highgamer wrote: On October 09 2020 20:37 Avi-Love wrote: On October 09 2020 19:17 Highgamer wrote: I understand the grief for Sylphid. But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps. Well, you wrote "sentiment" before you thought about my possible logic - and I think it has to do with sentiments, and it's normal that one doesn't understand all the sentiments/opinions of others because they're personal. I just don't mind to keep the same 2-3 bread n butter maps in the pool for now. FS's features just feel standard to me, that's personal, too. Has to do with when I picked up the game. I like Sylphid, but the lack of ramps, the 3rds' placements, the 3player-setup... not my idea of a standard BW-map. So, I don't feel that FS or CB are outdated/outplayed, we just differ in opinion here. Many sports are played on the same kind of playing field forever... Some people want changes after a while, some don't. But even "by my logic" I would not have to want LT and Python - because those are clearly imbalanced, on a whole different scale than FS might be slightly imbalanced. I consider FS to be the so far last of these maps that might have played a central role, so it has a special standing in that line at this point. And as far as the doubtful balance of FS and decreasing use in pro-play is concerned: That is one argument, but another is that simple/standard macro maps make it easier for newcomers to figure things out. I came to BW in 2011 and was really happy that 90% of the games in the next 5+ years were played on FS, lol. You're obviously entitled to your own opinion and your own sentiments, just like anyone that would cling onto python, lost temple and luna would be -- their claim is not stronger nor is it weaker than yours, but to me they are equally wrong in the grand scheme of things. I don't think FS is a lot easier to learn for a beginner than Poly or CB would be, so I feel like that is a weak argument clearly marred by personal experience rather than objectivity. Now I think the real issue for me personally is that what people consider to be "standard macro 4 player maps" might actually not belong in the game/meta any longer, if you look at the map stats from a distance you'll notice that almost all 4 player maps (I exclude maps like sparkle and ringing bloom here, because to me they don't fill the "standard" criteria, feel free to disagree) have significant imbalance, and it's always towards terran, and it is in both matchups. FS, CB, Poly, ground zero, eddy, optimizer and escalade all support this -- the only outlier from a quick glance is Gladiator, that while still terran favoured is a lot more even overall. There is also evidence that ZvP is imbalanced in favour of zerg on these types of maps. + Show Spoiler + Hm, I fear you're right. I sense that it'll hurt me emotionally when they finally dare to pull the map that I learned the game on out of the pool Cut me some slack, man, just one more season... Surely also has to do with the racial point of view, as ramps leading up to the main are just something you really want as a Terran in certain situations... You dislike unbuildable terrain in the wrong places much more than Zerg or Protoss... Or mineral-only thirds, ugh. I doubt that my opinion is based on that Terran-favoredness though that you point out, as I don't see those winrates above 50% working out for me on those maps -.- Could you post the link to your source for those charts? What playerbase are they drawn from? | ||
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
| ||
Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
| ||
Highgamer
1346 Posts
Best would be official tourney matches but then the amount of games is too small in this day and age, properly. How do you switch that site to english? The bottom at the very top right doesn't work for me, thoughts that was the one... | ||
Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
| ||
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On October 10 2020 01:59 Highgamer wrote: Much better than overall ladder stats where all levels of play are blended, that's for sure. Best would be official tourney matches but then the amount of games is too small in this day and age, properly. How do you switch that site to english? The bottom at the very top right doesn't work for me, thoughts that was the one... right click and then click translate to english is good enough for me. | ||
Freakling
Germany1525 Posts
On October 09 2020 19:55 kogeT wrote:In current version of polypoid, the top mineral in upper left corner of the base bugs if you build a depot on top of it. Which base? Got a screenshot? Which version # vs. which are you comparing? | ||
kogeT
Poland2000 Posts
On October 10 2020 03:23 Freakling wrote: Show nested quote + Which base? Got a screenshot? Which version # vs. which are you comparing?On October 09 2020 19:55 kogeT wrote:In current version of polypoid, the top mineral in upper left corner of the base bugs if you build a depot on top of it. Please see 1:38:30 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/764502712. I played that yesterday night. | ||
XenOsky
Chile2142 Posts
On October 09 2020 17:13 Golgotha wrote: I hate CB. give me sylphid t_t | ||
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On October 10 2020 00:32 Avi-Love wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 23:27 Highgamer wrote: On October 09 2020 20:37 Avi-Love wrote: On October 09 2020 19:17 Highgamer wrote: I understand the grief for Sylphid. But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps. Well, you wrote "sentiment" before you thought about my possible logic - and I think it has to do with sentiments, and it's normal that one doesn't understand all the sentiments/opinions of others because they're personal. I just don't mind to keep the same 2-3 bread n butter maps in the pool for now. FS's features just feel standard to me, that's personal, too. Has to do with when I picked up the game. I like Sylphid, but the lack of ramps, the 3rds' placements, the 3player-setup... not my idea of a standard BW-map. So, I don't feel that FS or CB are outdated/outplayed, we just differ in opinion here. Many sports are played on the same kind of playing field forever... Some people want changes after a while, some don't. But even "by my logic" I would not have to want LT and Python - because those are clearly imbalanced, on a whole different scale than FS might be slightly imbalanced. I consider FS to be the so far last of these maps that might have played a central role, so it has a special standing in that line at this point. And as far as the doubtful balance of FS and decreasing use in pro-play is concerned: That is one argument, but another is that simple/standard macro maps make it easier for newcomers to figure things out. I came to BW in 2011 and was really happy that 90% of the games in the next 5+ years were played on FS, lol. You're obviously entitled to your own opinion and your own sentiments, just like anyone that would cling onto python, lost temple and luna would be -- their claim is not stronger nor is it weaker than yours, but to me they are equally wrong in the grand scheme of things. I don't think FS is a lot easier to learn for a beginner than Poly or CB would be, so I feel like that is a weak argument clearly marred by personal experience rather than objectivity. Now I think the real issue for me personally is that what people consider to be "standard macro 4 player maps" might actually not belong in the game/meta any longer, if you look at the map stats from a distance you'll notice that almost all 4 player maps (I exclude maps like sparkle and ringing bloom here, because to me they don't fill the "standard" criteria, feel free to disagree) have significant imbalance, and it's always towards terran, and it is in both matchups. FS, CB, Poly, ground zero, eddy, optimizer and escalade all support this -- the only outlier from a quick glance is Gladiator, that while still terran favoured is a lot more even overall. There is also evidence that ZvP is imbalanced in favour of zerg on these types of maps. This is the first time I think about this but dont you have to assume that the average Terran, Zerg and Protoss are equal in skill in order for any % to make sense? What if this just is not the case? EDIT: i just reread these are pro/semi pros stats? If that is the case my point is obviously completely moot and you should ignore it | ||
PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
On October 10 2020 03:38 kogeT wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2020 03:23 Freakling wrote: On October 09 2020 19:55 kogeT wrote:In current version of polypoid, the top mineral in upper left corner of the base bugs if you build a depot on top of it. Which base? Got a screenshot? Which version # vs. which are you comparing?Please see 1:38:30 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/764502712. I played that yesterday night. crazy ô.Ô | ||
M3t4PhYzX
Poland3790 Posts
fucking FS/CB are in as usual.. just throw one of these out already, please.. Ringing Bloom is a big meh. I would like Shakuras Temple more. All in all - a pretty bad map pool to be honest | ||
Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
On October 10 2020 04:25 M3t4PhYzX wrote: ooofff.. removing Neo Sylphid is an absolutely terrible move. That was a really fun and balanced map. Adding Plasma.. idk.. i love me some non-standard maps but idk about this one on the ladder. Nobody will play it, too lazy. fucking FS/CB are in as usual.. just throw one of these out already, please.. Ringing Bloom is a big meh. I would like Shakuras Temple more. All in all - a pretty bad map pool to be honest EVERYONE is going to veto plasma so don't even bother mentioning it. then you have 3 of the same maps, so you pick 1 i guess. and you lose sylphid. idk where they are going with this | ||
Freakling
Germany1525 Posts
On October 10 2020 03:38 kogeT wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2020 03:23 Freakling wrote: On October 09 2020 19:55 kogeT wrote:In current version of polypoid, the top mineral in upper left corner of the base bugs if you build a depot on top of it. Which base? Got a screenshot? Which version # vs. which are you comparing?Please see 1:38:30 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/764502712. I played that yesterday night. First of there is absolutely nothing special about that mineral patch. In fact for patches in that very top right region the map version is pretty much irrelevant, even the map is irrelevant, could just as well be FS or any other map with a top left corner base, pathfinding layouts are pretty much uniform there as the algorithm starts out its iterations in that corner of the map. My guess is actually just a statistical anormality. How many workers would you say had you mining in that base altogether? | ||
BigFan
TLADT24917 Posts
| ||
Shinokuki
United States849 Posts
On October 09 2020 23:27 Highgamer wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2020 20:37 Avi-Love wrote: On October 09 2020 19:17 Highgamer wrote: I understand the grief for Sylphid. But all this hate for FS... It's like the sun of the map-pool planetary system. You don't know what you owe this map. Accept it already, it's gonna be in there forever. Plasma though... it's like they want to set up an obstacle course, then tie everyone's feet together and see what happens... I don't really understand this sentiment, by your logic we should also have Lost Temple, Luna and Python in the map pool because they all played a similar role as FS historically? The map is outdated, outplayed, imbalanced and basically not used in any serious league, it's time to let it go like we did the previously mentioned maps. Well, you wrote "sentiment" before you thought about my possible logic - and I think it has to do with sentiments, and it's normal that one doesn't understand all the sentiments/opinions of others because they're personal. I just don't mind to keep the same 2-3 bread n butter maps in the pool for now. FS's features just feel standard to me, that's personal, too. Has to do with when I picked up the game. I like Sylphid, but the lack of ramps, the 3rds' placements, the 3player-setup... not my idea of a standard BW-map. So, I don't feel that FS or CB are outdated/outplayed, we just differ in opinion here. Many sports are played on the same kind of playing field forever... Some people want changes after a while, some don't. But even "by my logic" I would not have to want LT and Python - because those are clearly imbalanced, on a whole different scale than FS might be slightly imbalanced. I consider FS to be the so far last of these maps that might have played a central role, so it has a special standing in that line at this point. And as far as the doubtful balance of FS and decreasing use in pro-play is concerned: That is one argument, but another is that simple/standard macro maps make it easier for newcomers to figure things out. I came to BW in 2011 and was really happy that 90% of the games in the next 5+ years were played on FS, lol. FS is horribly imbalanced for zergs lol. | ||
Shinokuki
United States849 Posts
On October 10 2020 04:44 Alejandrisha wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2020 04:25 M3t4PhYzX wrote: ooofff.. removing Neo Sylphid is an absolutely terrible move. That was a really fun and balanced map. Adding Plasma.. idk.. i love me some non-standard maps but idk about this one on the ladder. Nobody will play it, too lazy. fucking FS/CB are in as usual.. just throw one of these out already, please.. Ringing Bloom is a big meh. I would like Shakuras Temple more. All in all - a pretty bad map pool to be honest EVERYONE is going to veto plasma so don't even bother mentioning it. then you have 3 of the same maps, so you pick 1 i guess. and you lose sylphid. idk where they are going with this Honestly doubt these developers even play the game.. otherwise they would keep CB/SYLPHID/Polypoid as standard 3 maps since FS is god awful garbage | ||
LML
Germany1702 Posts
That's what we have the 3 vetoes for. I simply vetoed Plasma, CB and FS, and all is good. | ||
ajmbek
Italy459 Posts
I am really tired of this two maps. They are really good maps, but man, what is too much is too much | ||
Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
| ||
bovienchien
Vietnam1142 Posts
2018 Season 1 25/07 (dd/mm) (2) Blue Storm (2) Polaris Rhapsody (2) Heart Break Ridge 2.1 (3) Aztec 2.1 (4) Roadkill 1.13 (4) Fighting Spirit (4) Circuit Breaker 2018 Season 2 02/10 (2) Benzene 1.1 (2) Heart Break Ridge 2.1 (3) Aztec 2.1 (4) Circuit Breakers 1.0 (4) Fighting Spirit 1.3 (4) In the Way of an Eddy 1.05 (4) Roadkill 1.13 2019 Season 1 03/02 (2) Cross Game (2) Overwatch (3) Neo Medusa (4) Circuit Breaker (4) Colosseum II (4) Fighting Spirit (4) Neo Ground Zero 2019 Season 2 10/07 (2) Overwatch (2) Tres Pass (3) Power Bond (4) BlockChainSE 2.1 (4) Fighting Spirit 1.3 (4) Circuit Breakers 1.0 (4) Gladiator 1.1 2019 Season 3 20/11 (2) Destination (2) Heartbreak Ridge (3) Neo_Sylphid (3) Whiteout (4) Circuit Breaker (4) Fighting Spirit (4) Gladiator 2020 Season 1 14/02 (2) Hitchhiker 1.2 (2) New Bloody Ridge (3) Neo_Sylphid 2.0 (4) La Mancha 1.1 (4) Escalade (4) Fighting Spirit 1.3 (4) Circuit Breakers 1.0 2020 Season 2 29/05 (2) Eclipse (2) Match Point (3) New Sylphid (3) Reap the Storm (4) Polypoid (4) Fighting Spirit (4) Circuit Breakers 2020 Season 3 09/10 (2) Benzene (2) Eclipse (3) Plasma (4) Circuit Breakers (4) Polypoid (4) Ringing Bloom (4) Fighting Spirit | ||
LML
Germany1702 Posts
| ||
skycycle
Bulgaria36 Posts
On October 10 2020 21:19 LML wrote: I wish they would actually have a set cycle for the seasons and tell us the dates beforehand. If you want to get a certain portrait, and the season suddenly ends, you will never have the chance to get that again. +1, they should have added a season counter a long time ago, can't imagine it will take that much work to do | ||
Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
| ||
Bugg.col
Colombia8 Posts
back Sylphid plzzzz | ||
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