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I have seen some of foreign players registered for the ASL qualies.
I think it will be very nice to see one of the foreigners competing in offline against koreans. It sounds stupid but I am willing to donate to send the best foreigner (Dewalt, Bonyth) for the ASL or ACS qualification. Even if they dont have much chance to qualify either tourneys, it would be nice to have a player representing the foreign scene since I will have someone to really support and rooting for. I enjoy watching something when I am rooting for a particular team or a player.
It's out of topic, but I just feel like it once in a time.
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On September 20 2020 17:18 ...onmYwaY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2020 12:11 LaStScan wrote:On September 20 2020 06:36 ...onmYwaY wrote:
Age is also a big factor. Since Korea is a much larger scene pro players in their late 20s’ and 30s’ can actually support themselves by streaming. And younger, less experienced players get to play in that massive pool of players TR24 all day.
Most successful non-Koreans are in their early 30s’ with jobs and families to support. There is just no way to compete. Look at Oya for example, he is like early 20s’ and still lives with his mom. How should anyone in their 30s’ be able to compete with that development? Give Oya 2 kids and a full time job and he will be a 1900 player sporting 5 games a week.
The chosen one that could make it to Korea should either be...
Financially independent, already top 5 non-Korean move to Korea and do the 12H day practice, befriend CadenZie and her programmer friends and get all that coaching. Maybe 12 months in we could see them reach a RO24 spot.
Or... early 20s’, live close to Russia and Poland to get that practice. Play 12H day, crush a few BSL, move to Korea and blast that ladder for 3-6 months. And maybe reach an ASTL spot or RO8 ACS.
OH... did I say that StarCraft is the hardest game in the world? And before some one begin with comparisons (this game is faster! This game is more this and that!). Look... just the competition alone is enough to make StarCraft the hardest game in the world. Not a few but many people have invested their entire teen and adult life to this game, for over 20 years(!). And on top of that it’s massively hard in terms of multitask, speed, timing and strategy. Lastly it’s so unforgiving at times... I both love and hate this game. And I will never stop playing, no other game can compete. Programmer.. still calls it in 2020 lol. Anyways, 12H a day practice, few BSL, Korean ladder in Korea won't help them to get a spot for ASTL. First, you need to study about korean society and their game culture. Coaches don't know new names players. They won't pick foreign players over Korean because 1) language barrier 2) out of meta trend 3) apmwise. Yoon started the competitive scene before me(i was doing my military service) and he was still not chosen for ASTL due to lack of stream activity, no connection with progamers. Yoon and i are close friends. He said he was mentally sick because he thought he would get drafted for ASTL and keep practicing his ladder and stayed on top5 or so. He finally did something in ACS, but lost first 2 of his ASL qualifiers, used his ACS winner ticket(seeded for ASL qualifier final round) to make it into ASL group stage(ro24) with his 3rd try. It is extremely hard to qualify for ASL. Yabsab is also a strong zerg who made into ACS semifinal stage, and he was also about to qualify for ASL, but he faced vs yoon(his 3rd try with seeded ticket) and lost to yoon 2-1. I wonder how the result might change if yabsab was in a spot in the group stage since his zvp is much more stronger than yoon imo. Scan the progamer police  I really like you but stop. I do not think that it is unfair to call the likes of Rain, Effort, Last, Jaedong and the rest that she has been teaming up with in BJ Destruction progamers. Or do you disagree? Well... what candidates do we have then? For the first group... 30s’ and top non-korean. So if Bonyth went to Korea, practice 12H a day, got coaching from Rain and stayed like that for 12 months. Would ASL RO24 be unreasonable? Next category, since I already referenced early 20s’ Oya let’s say he wins BSL10... and 11-12. Goes full commit 12H days, move to Korea and get 3-6 months practice. Would it be unreasonable to reach ACS RO8? And in terms of skill reach ASTL? Even if the coaches won’t pick him based on language? It’s all speculation and we will probably never find out.
They can, but it is not like Koreans are not training. They are training more than foreigners. Most foreigners have jobs and they play sc for their hobby, but many Korean amateurs who try to qualify for ACS and ASL practice more than 12h a day just to be successful in sc scene. Koreans are more desperate than foreigners. Nothing is impossible though, but I dont see any chance of foreigners qualifying ASL or ACS in near future unless dewalt or bonyth move to Korea and practice like other koreans
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On September 20 2020 17:31 cRoSsy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2020 17:18 ...onmYwaY wrote:On September 20 2020 12:11 LaStScan wrote:On September 20 2020 06:36 ...onmYwaY wrote:
Age is also a big factor. Since Korea is a much larger scene pro players in their late 20s’ and 30s’ can actually support themselves by streaming. And younger, less experienced players get to play in that massive pool of players TR24 all day.
Most successful non-Koreans are in their early 30s’ with jobs and families to support. There is just no way to compete. Look at Oya for example, he is like early 20s’ and still lives with his mom. How should anyone in their 30s’ be able to compete with that development? Give Oya 2 kids and a full time job and he will be a 1900 player sporting 5 games a week.
The chosen one that could make it to Korea should either be...
Financially independent, already top 5 non-Korean move to Korea and do the 12H day practice, befriend CadenZie and her programmer friends and get all that coaching. Maybe 12 months in we could see them reach a RO24 spot.
Or... early 20s’, live close to Russia and Poland to get that practice. Play 12H day, crush a few BSL, move to Korea and blast that ladder for 3-6 months. And maybe reach an ASTL spot or RO8 ACS.
OH... did I say that StarCraft is the hardest game in the world? And before some one begin with comparisons (this game is faster! This game is more this and that!). Look... just the competition alone is enough to make StarCraft the hardest game in the world. Not a few but many people have invested their entire teen and adult life to this game, for over 20 years(!). And on top of that it’s massively hard in terms of multitask, speed, timing and strategy. Lastly it’s so unforgiving at times... I both love and hate this game. And I will never stop playing, no other game can compete. Programmer.. still calls it in 2020 lol. Anyways, 12H a day practice, few BSL, Korean ladder in Korea won't help them to get a spot for ASTL. First, you need to study about korean society and their game culture. Coaches don't know new names players. They won't pick foreign players over Korean because 1) language barrier 2) out of meta trend 3) apmwise. Yoon started the competitive scene before me(i was doing my military service) and he was still not chosen for ASTL due to lack of stream activity, no connection with progamers. Yoon and i are close friends. He said he was mentally sick because he thought he would get drafted for ASTL and keep practicing his ladder and stayed on top5 or so. He finally did something in ACS, but lost first 2 of his ASL qualifiers, used his ACS winner ticket(seeded for ASL qualifier final round) to make it into ASL group stage(ro24) with his 3rd try. It is extremely hard to qualify for ASL. Yabsab is also a strong zerg who made into ACS semifinal stage, and he was also about to qualify for ASL, but he faced vs yoon(his 3rd try with seeded ticket) and lost to yoon 2-1. I wonder how the result might change if yabsab was in a spot in the group stage since his zvp is much more stronger than yoon imo. Scan the progamer police I really like you but stop. I do not think that it is unfair to call the likes of Rain, Effort, Last, Jaedong and the rest that she has been teaming up with in BJ Destruction progamers. Or do you disagree? Well... what candidates do we have then? For the first group... 30s’ and top non-korean. So if Bonyth went to Korea, practice 12H a day, got coaching from Rain and stayed like that for 12 months. Would ASL RO24 be unreasonable? Next category, since I already referenced early 20s’ Oya let’s say he wins BSL10... and 11-12. Goes full commit 12H days, move to Korea and get 3-6 months practice. Would it be unreasonable to reach ACS RO8? And in terms of skill reach ASTL? Even if the coaches won’t pick him based on language? It’s all speculation and we will probably never find out. They can, but it is not like Koreans are not training. They are training more than foreigners. Most foreigners have jobs and they play sc for their hobby, but many Korean amateurs who try to qualify for ACS and ASL practice more than 12h a day just to be successful in sc scene. Koreans are more desperate than foreigners. Nothing is impossible though, but I dont see any chance of foreigners qualifying ASL or ACS in near future unless dewalt or bonyth move to Korea and practice like other koreans
Lets run another aspect... there are many sides to the mental game. But let’s say that we have the top 1 non-Korean which smashes the global scene over and over. That should give a lot of confidence going into any match.
Skill wise that would compare to a mid-tier competitive Korean that qualifies a few rounds in ACS and ASL qualifiers. However, the Korean would get toyed by better players over and over and sit like top 100 in his own country. That’s not a receipt for a lot of confidence.
I would say the mind game might go to the non-Korean in that instance.
The non-Korean would get his feet back on the earth once he starts play in the Korean scene but might still get that boost in confidence once he takes down another non-Korean tournament.
StarCraft might be even harder mentally to keep running year after year with very little to none payback in terms of success. 99% would loose their minds half way.
The chosen one is one special human being...
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One serious question. I was thinking of that for a long time, it is like a dream for me.
I was fortunate enough to make a lot of money from poker, then bitcoins and Tesla shares. I am willing to create an "ultimate" BW tournament with a prize pool lets say $100 000. I would love to have both top koreans and maybe 1 forigner on each group.
I have no expirience at all with tournaments, i know nobody at the scene, etc.
Do you guys think it is possible to do something like that? Any advice? Do you think it is possible to get back at least 20-30% from ads and other stuff?
If someone with expirience and connections is willing to help me, let's disscuss it to see if it is even possible. I can offer only money.
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On September 20 2020 19:11 martoto088 wrote:
One serious question. I was thinking of that for a long time, it is like a dream for me.
I was fortunate enough to make a lot of money from poker, then bitcoins and Tesla shares. I am willing to create an "ultimate" BW tournament with a prize pool lets say $100 000. I would love to have both top koreans and maybe 1 forigner on each group.
I have no expirience at all with tournaments, i know nobody at the scene, etc.
Do you guys think it is possible to do something like that? Any advice? Do you think it is possible to get back at least 20-30% from ads and other stuff?
If someone with expirience and connections is willing to help me, let's disscuss it to see if it is even possible. I can offer only money.
Sponsor AfreecaTV! <3 I think AfreecaTV’s employee Char(?) is lurking around this forum. PM him or ask Artosis for contact info.
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On September 20 2020 19:11 martoto088 wrote:
One serious question. I was thinking of that for a long time, it is like a dream for me.
I was fortunate enough to make a lot of money from poker, then bitcoins and Tesla shares. I am willing to create an "ultimate" BW tournament with a prize pool lets say $100 000. I would love to have both top koreans and maybe 1 forigner on each group.
I have no expirience at all with tournaments, i know nobody at the scene, etc.
Do you guys think it is possible to do something like that? Any advice? Do you think it is possible to get back at least 20-30% from ads and other stuff?
If someone with expirience and connections is willing to help me, let's disscuss it to see if it is even possible. I can offer only money.
You should talk about that with either Rus_Brain or AfreecaTVChar, they might help you
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On September 20 2020 19:11 martoto088 wrote:
One serious question. I was thinking of that for a long time, it is like a dream for me.
I was fortunate enough to make a lot of money from poker, then bitcoins and Tesla shares. I am willing to create an "ultimate" BW tournament with a prize pool lets say $100 000. I would love to have both top koreans and maybe 1 forigner on each group.
I have no expirience at all with tournaments, i know nobody at the scene, etc.
Do you guys think it is possible to do something like that? Any advice? Do you think it is possible to get back at least 20-30% from ads and other stuff?
If someone with expirience and connections is willing to help me, let's disscuss it to see if it is even possible. I can offer only money.
It would probably be better to split $100k over 4-5 events rather than one. Even a $10k prize pool for a tournament is ridiculously massive for Brood War.
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On September 20 2020 19:11 martoto088 wrote:
One serious question. I was thinking of that for a long time, it is like a dream for me.
I was fortunate enough to make a lot of money from poker, then bitcoins and Tesla shares. I am willing to create an "ultimate" BW tournament with a prize pool lets say $100 000. I would love to have both top koreans and maybe 1 forigner on each group.
I have no expirience at all with tournaments, i know nobody at the scene, etc.
Do you guys think it is possible to do something like that? Any advice? Do you think it is possible to get back at least 20-30% from ads and other stuff?
If someone with expirience and connections is willing to help me, let's disscuss it to see if it is even possible. I can offer only money.
If you successfully managed to fund an event looking forward to watch it !
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I feel like you didn't fully understand my explanation. I'll answer nicely each for you.
Well... what candidates do we have then? For the first group... 30s’ and top non-korean. So if Bonyth went financially independent, moved with his family to Korea, practice 12H a day, got coaching from Rain and stayed like that for 12 months. Would ASL RO24 be unreasonable?
First, Cadenzie is a woman, competing vs other female SC streamers and BJ destruction war had rules like few matches (female vs female) in BoX series match. I don't know how much she got coaching lessons, but it is not much as you think.
Let's hit the reality. Why would Rain, Flash, Bisu, or any other top level players coach for top level foreign players? I already explain in the beginning that you must understand about the Korean society and their game culture. Also, they don't have much benefits getting out of the coaching lessons nor staying in a same place/room with foreign players. Look, they don't coach any top amateur players who are having a dream to succeed in ASL and ASTL. Luckily, Larva took care of Soma and did a lot of activities together and he is kind of a lucky case to become a top level player in the scene.
Next category, since I already referenced early 20s’ Oya let’s say he wins BSL10... and 11-12. Goes full commit 12H days, move to Korea and get 3-6 months practice. Would it be unreasonable to reach ACS RO8? And in terms of skill reach ASTL? Even if the coaches won’t pick him based on language?
There's no ACS RO8. Only 4 players qualify and start at semifinal. Hitting 2600++ on ladder like a beast 50-1 stats doesn't help. He has no offline stage experience, YES language barrier with Korean players. Midas is currently at the lowest rank(#69) in sponbbang ranking and he can still win vs any low tier players. Look at the result in ASL Qualifiers Midas(ASTL coach) vs Motive(ASTL player). Midas won the game. Midas does not play SC, he ONLY commits to play because there's tournaments.
There's also Chinese players out there in Korean ladder and Mihu is the guy who hits 2600++ mmr easily, but he struggled winning his game vs Midas.
liquipedia.net
Also, Boxer doesn't play SC much, everyone probably thinks he's like out of S rank on ladder, but look. He is at 2353MMR 39-19 stats. If you don't believe, he uses BoxerTV on ladder and streams on Twitch with his SKT team shared account or so.
Ladder means nothing in Korean competitive scene.
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On September 21 2020 00:51 LaStScan wrote:There's also Chinese players out there in Korean ladder and Mihu is the guy who hits 2600++ mmr easily, but he struggled winning his game vs Midas. liquipedia.net
Hmm the link shows he lost 4-2? That means he didn't struggle winning but lost?
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On September 21 2020 00:51 LaStScan wrote:I feel like you didn't fully understand my explanation. I'll answer nicely each for you. Show nested quote +Well... what candidates do we have then? For the first group... 30s’ and top non-korean. So if Bonyth went financially independent, moved with his family to Korea, practice 12H a day, got coaching from Rain and stayed like that for 12 months. Would ASL RO24 be unreasonable? First, Cadenzie is a woman, competing vs other female SC streamers and BJ destruction war had rules like few matches (female vs female) in BoX series match. I don't know how much she got coaching lessons, but it is not much as you think. Let's hit the reality. Why would Rain, Flash, Bisu, or any other top level players coach for top level foreign players? I already explain in the beginning that you must understand about the Korean society and their game culture. Also, they don't have much benefits getting out of the coaching lessons nor staying in a same place/room with foreign players. Look, they don't coach any top amateur players who are having a dream to succeed in ASL and ASTL. Luckily, Larva took care of Soma and did a lot of activities together and he is kind of a lucky case to become a top level player in the scene. Show nested quote +Next category, since I already referenced early 20s’ Oya let’s say he wins BSL10... and 11-12. Goes full commit 12H days, move to Korea and get 3-6 months practice. Would it be unreasonable to reach ACS RO8? And in terms of skill reach ASTL? Even if the coaches won’t pick him based on language? There's no ACS RO8. Only 4 players qualify and start at semifinal. Hitting 2600++ on ladder like a beast 50-1 stats doesn't help. He has no offline stage experience, YES language barrier with Korean players. Midas is currently at the lowest rank(#69) in sponbbang ranking and he can still win vs any low tier players. Look at the result in ASL Qualifiers Midas(ASTL coach) vs Motive(ASTL player). Midas won the game. Midas does not play SC, he ONLY commits to play because there's tournaments. There's also Chinese players out there in Korean ladder and Mihu is the guy who hits 2600++ mmr easily, but he struggled winning his game vs Midas. liquipedia.netAlso, Boxer doesn't play SC much, everyone probably thinks he's like out of S rank on ladder, but look. He is at 2353MMR 39-19 stats. If you don't believe, he uses BoxerTV on ladder and streams on Twitch with his SKT team shared account or so. Ladder means nothing in Korean competitive scene.
Well... I never even proposed that as a reality at all :O All I was saying is that "this and that need to happen if we would ever have a non-Korean competing in offline Korean tournaments". And if you read my post #3 you will see that I do point out Korean culture as a big part of that (i.e. live in Korea and speak the language, like Grrr... and Elky did).
And... since you did the job to put all into the real perspective I think we can all agree that we will never ever have a non-Korean competing in ASL.
But remember, Mondragon beat Reach in 2005 (when Reach was still top-tier, 2nd place MSL that year) and Savior at WCG 2007 (the same year he won OSL), White-Ra beat Stork, also 2007 and Androide took down Silent_Control 2005. All that while the Brood War scene was as healthy as ever, team houses and all. The force is strong within us
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On September 20 2020 17:18 ...onmYwaY wrote:
Well... what candidates do we have then? For the first group... 30s’ and top non-korean. So if Bonyth went financially independent, moved with his family to Korea, practice 12H a day, got coaching from Rain and stayed like that for 12 months. Would ASL RO24 be unreasonable?
I bolded the important parts. Bonyth has a stable job, a wife and a baby. Which responsible adult would move to korea to chase the progaming dream in his situation? None i think.
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On September 21 2020 01:04 Kaolla wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2020 00:51 LaStScan wrote:There's also Chinese players out there in Korean ladder and Mihu is the guy who hits 2600++ mmr easily, but he struggled winning his game vs Midas. liquipedia.net Hmm the link shows he lost 4-2? That means he didn't struggle winning but lost?
Midas 4-2 Mihu, I was pointing out Mihu is/was at 2600mmr at the period of time, I expected Mihu would take down old expros, but he couldn't. He as mihu I'm saying.
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On September 21 2020 01:23 Cele wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2020 17:18 ...onmYwaY wrote:
Well... what candidates do we have then? For the first group... 30s’ and top non-korean. So if Bonyth went financially independent, moved with his family to Korea, practice 12H a day, got coaching from Rain and stayed like that for 12 months. Would ASL RO24 be unreasonable?
I bolded the important parts. Bonyth has a stable job, a wife and a baby. Which responsible adult would move to korea to chase the progaming dream in his situation? None i think.
I never said it. Please, read the posts... I don’t think he will be financially independent either or get coaching from Rain. Listen, I just painted made up scenarios what would have to happen if we would ever have him, or any other top non-Korean player reach ASL. In other words, that will never happen.
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On September 20 2020 19:11 martoto088 wrote:
One serious question. I was thinking of that for a long time, it is like a dream for me.
I was fortunate enough to make a lot of money from poker, then bitcoins and Tesla shares. I am willing to create an "ultimate" BW tournament with a prize pool lets say $100 000. I would love to have both top koreans and maybe 1 forigner on each group.
I have no expirience at all with tournaments, i know nobody at the scene, etc.
Do you guys think it is possible to do something like that? Any advice? Do you think it is possible to get back at least 20-30% from ads and other stuff?
If someone with expirience and connections is willing to help me, let's disscuss it to see if it is even possible. I can offer only money.
You would single handedly be able to lay the foundation for a new generation of bw.
If I get a 2020 wish. It is this.
Can someone who knows and does things - please contact this person?
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On September 20 2020 19:11 martoto088 wrote:
One serious question. I was thinking of that for a long time, it is like a dream for me.
I was fortunate enough to make a lot of money from poker, then bitcoins and Tesla shares. I am willing to create an "ultimate" BW tournament with a prize pool lets say $100 000. I would love to have both top koreans and maybe 1 forigner on each group.
I have no expirience at all with tournaments, i know nobody at the scene, etc.
Do you guys think it is possible to do something like that? Any advice? Do you think it is possible to get back at least 20-30% from ads and other stuff?
If someone with expirience and connections is willing to help me, let's disscuss it to see if it is even possible. I can offer only money.
Doing it with Afreeca would be exciting.
Could have some invites for like Bonyth, some qualifier spots. The korean top players would enter and play their A-game for the money of a tournament.
Right now people entering korea has to do 2 weeks of quarantine. But if a thing like this is planned ahead for perhaps spring 2021 maybe things look differently. Would also need to check with our foreign top players. I like to think that most of them would like to go, but there's a risk they have a life outside broodwar standing in the way.
For organising it online, talk to Rus_brain and Zzzero about what's needed. Player contacts, competent casters, making livegames as lagfree as possible. It could be a BSL with bigger bucks, open for koreans.
BSL is a smooth example of it all, live right now if you're not watching=).
If it's a online tournament I'd also recommend spreading it into more than one tournament, one final tournament with big bang bucks.
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$100 000? Wow, that might almost be enough for the blizzard fee 
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On September 21 2020 04:21 FakeFin wrote:$100 000? Wow, that might almost be enough for the blizzard fee
Not even. They stopped being so terrible, in this way, after the hostile take over of korea.
All the big tournaments couldn't afford that. Blizzard just wants their name on anything big and bw or sc2 (which I can understand).
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But remember, Mondragon beat Reach in 2005 (when Reach was still top-tier, 2nd place MSL that year) and Savior at WCG 2007 (the same year he won OSL), White-Ra beat Stork, also 2007 and Androide took down Silent_Control 2005. All that while the Brood War scene was as healthy as ever, team houses and all. The force is strong within us
that's good to know, but winning only one match is not enough. They need to achieve something more better than winning one match. When commentators are analyzing players' stats, history, and career, we don't see any career behind.
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On September 21 2020 04:44 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +But remember, Mondragon beat Reach in 2005 (when Reach was still top-tier, 2nd place MSL that year) and Savior at WCG 2007 (the same year he won OSL), White-Ra beat Stork, also 2007 and Androide took down Silent_Control 2005. All that while the Brood War scene was as healthy as ever, team houses and all. The force is strong within us that's good to know, but winning only one match is not enough. They need to achieve something more better than winning one match. When commentators are analyzing players' stats, history, and career, we don't see any career behind.
I've so much respect for you and your comments Scan, I hope we are not arguing about something? Because from what I am seeing, we are saying the same thing. It is nearly impossible for a non-Korean to make it. You are probably the best hope for an English-speaking gamer to make it in premier tournaments (although I met MiSo on the ladder and he was not too bad either).
However, if we go back and look at some history... PJ actually knocked out Savior of WCG2007 2-1. Androide knocked out Silent_Control 2-0. White-Ra had Stork down 3-1 WCG2007 (incl. tie-breakers; even if it was slightly questioned if Stork actually threw a few games to avoid another Korean in the Final bracket). And perhaps there are more games that I do not recall from the top of my head. All these were offline matches in one of the largest tournaments. These games, and all the other wins proove that it would not be the first time a non-Korean could compete with the elite. Not saying anything about today though.
Even if it's still nearly impossible.
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EPT
